I'm kinda leaning towards soup chef. Soup and salad go hand in hand. Or maybe spoon? Fork? The thing that tosses the salad?
adent42Key Master, Head Chef, Executive Chef, Member, PROPosts: 3,165
LEGAL DISCLAIMER: This is not the official legal answer for the company, mostly because I'm not a lawyer... but... there are some straightforward interpretations:
Now that I read the terms again, it's not very clear, but the intention is for you to retain copyright ownership to all works you upload to our site. We'll work on clarifying that.
So next:
...you expressly grant to GENDAI GAMES a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide, complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, create derivative works from, syndicate, license, print, sublicense, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the Content, or any portion thereof, without notice, payment or attribution of any kind to you or any third party.
Some examples that we currently foresee, include:
We may want to use a game of yours in an ad to promote GameSalad (and consequently, your game). We may have to take characters, screenshots, etc. We may want to display the ad through multiple channels (TV, print, web). We don't want to have to contact you and license each usage of your game's IP.
As a general rule, we'd like to comply with the request of game authors, within reason. But without these clauses, we open ourselves up to lawsuits.
- no royalties
Games on our site are intended to be free. We want people to be able to distribute and share these games (including ourselves) without worry about royalties. We also make a minimal amount of money through ads at the moment, and we're no where NEAR the kind of volume that would allow us to share that money with you. Though this is a labor of love, we need to eat as much as the next guy.
Which brings us to:
If the GENDAI GAMES Service on which you contribute Content permits other users to access and use that contributed Content as part of the GENDAI GAMES Service, than you also grant all other users of the relevant GENDAI GAMES Service the right to use, copy, display, perform, create derivative works from, and otherwise communicate and distribute your contributed Content on or through the relevant GENDAI GAMES Service without further notice, attribution or compensation to you.
While this feature hasn't been implemented yet, we intend have an option where you check a box to share your game in "project" form under a Creative Commons license. That way you can learn from each other and re-mix each other's games.
These clauses are fairly standard for user-generated content websites. We want to encourage users to share their games as widely as possible. We'd also like free reign to use games to promote GameSalad. In the future, we may want to make GameSalad games available through channels other than the web... and as such, these terms allow us to do so.
That being said, none of these terms are meant to deprive you of your copyright ownership of your game. We intend to have separate terms of service for creators who join our future publishing system, whatever form that may take.
Hopefully, that helps to clear things up.
We plan on revising these terms of service to make them more clear and to provide similar but better stated rights.
I'm not trying to be difficult, honest! But there are a few points I'd like to make:
"Now that I read the terms again, it's not very clear, but the intention is for you to retain copyright ownership to all works you upload to our site. We'll work on clarifying that."
Wonderful!
"We may want to use a game of yours in an ad to promote GameSalad (and consequently, your game). We may have to take characters, screenshots, etc. We may want to display the ad through multiple channels (TV, print, web). We don't want to have to contact you and license each usage of your game's IP.
As a general rule, we'd like to comply with the request of game authors, within reason. But without these clauses, we open ourselves up to lawsuits."
I've got no problem with this, but would this only include games on the website? I'd hate to think that any games of mine you've seen that are still 'in development' and not in the public domain (i.e. on your site) would be used without asking first...
"While this feature hasn't been implemented yet, we intend have an option where you check a box to share your game in "project" form under a Creative Commons license. That way you can learn from each other and re-mix each other's games."
As long as this is a choice, I've no problem with it. What I worry about, though, is that it may splinter the community. While there'll be lots of sharing of tips and tricks, I feel that we cover this in the forums pretty well already. What *could* happen is that the guys in it for the money will not post any more games up for fear it may be copied. Also, I'm not that keen on 're-mixing' each others games. As I mentioned before, there's already a deluge of games that are simply the templates from GameSalad on the website. I'd hate to see a game I'd uploaded re-uploaded 10 times with someone else's name on it!
"That being said, none of these terms are meant to deprive you of your copyright ownership of your game. We intend to have separate terms of service for creators who join our future publishing system, whatever form that may take."
Sounds good sir. I'll wait till I see these then. It seems though, again, that the community may be split between the mushrooms (fun guys - geddit???) and the money grabbers!
"We plan on revising these terms of service to make them more clear and to provide similar but better stated rights."
Cool - look forward to it.
In short, we're trusting you guys. Don't let us down
Big sigh of relief here... I'm taking everything you say at face value, so if all of the above is true, and as long as we retain the copyrights to our game, and GameSalad receives no royalties, I'm very happy with that!
Thank you again for taking the time out to clarify this as there were a lot of worried GS users
Have a good day
Also, are there any other template games that we can view besides the staple ones that were built into the program to get ideas on rules and movement etc?
adent42Key Master, Head Chef, Executive Chef, Member, PROPosts: 3,165
@JGary321 personally, I'd have liked the title: Iron Chef (or at least Aluminum Chef).
@butterbean21 Sorry, we don't have any more templates at the moment, but we hope to build up that library at some point.
@quantumsheep These terms will only apply to games on the website. Don't worry, we won't be promoting games that were sent into use for tech support!
As for remixing and sharing games. I'm imaging that there will be a few complete and premium games that will not be up for Creative Commons sharing. Sharing is entirely optional.
What we'd like to see game creation flourish in the same way that open source has in the web world. I can imagine a community that has:
- A forum where people can discuss game design by example. - A multitude of game play prototype "toys" that have minimal art, but everyone can incorporate into their games. - A friendly atmosphere where people can remix each others games as a way of paying homage to the originals, to build upon them in a group effort, or compete with each other in a match of oneupmanship.
A multitude of copycats is an unfortunate reality of any community of user generated content. But that's no less true of the current game industry (how many games are really just Quake reskinned).
In the end, games are all about the finished product: design, art, execution, fun. We're depending on you, our community, to help highlight the best games. (Start using that "Favorite" button people!)
adent42 could you please comment why the old point 4 is now point 6 with some additions and GendaiGames is still allowed to redistribute my games??
I agree that Gendai Games is free to use a Submission on an unrestricted basis for any purpose, and you hereby grant to Gendai Games a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide, irrevocable, fully paid up, royalty-free, sublicensable (with the right to sublicense through multiple tiers of licensees) license (in any media, whether known or not currently known and invented) to link to, use, reproduce, create derivative works from, syndicate, license, print, sublicense, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, publicly display and publicly perform the Submissions, or any portion thereof, without notice, payment or attribution ...
I dont want to pay 2000$ every year to give you all rights of my game! Haven't you told us that its not your intention to take our rights??
...is it true that you get the unrestricted rights for any purpose... to reproduce, license, sublicense... my games without paying me, at the moment i submit my game to GG for example to convert it to xcode??
What's the deal here?
When do you want to change these rules as promised??
When everybody already has submitted their games??
okay. i would like some clarification on this. im already unhappy to have to start paying for a software that is still beta. now i have to deal with the possibility of my work being ripped off?
plz, this has been going on for over 2 months already.
I don't think they mean that they are going to use your work and you not get paid for it, I think they mean, like in their gamesalad video that showed most of our games, they want to use our games to kinda show that this is what you can do with gamesalad, and that they are in a way promoting your game. I honestly don't think it's their intention to "take" our game. and plus, we get 100% royalties.
adent42Key Master, Head Chef, Executive Chef, Member, PROPosts: 3,165
I'm sorry I've taken so long to come back... the downside of being both the website developer and legal expert is that one had often overwhelms the other. I've been pulling 12+ hour days as of late so I decided to mostly take a break on Sunday.
To answer your questions, there are three new sections to note:
In the sharing sections you are quoting, we have added:
You also hereby grant all other users of the Site and Gendai Games Services have the right to link to.... (unless expressly specified by you during the submission process as further described below)...
The section "described below"
When posting a Submission to the Site, you will have the ability to select one of the following options with respect to each Submission: (i) not to share your Submission with other users of the Site and Gendai Games Services,
AND:
YOU RETAIN OWNERSHIP OF ANY COPYRIGHTS OR OTHER INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS APPLICABLE TO ANY INFORMATION YOU SUBMIT TO GENDAI GAMES, SUCH AS YOUR SUBMISSIONS.
The scope of these terms, while broad, are fairly standard across the web for sharing site (think YouTube and Kongregate). It enables people visiting the site to share their content without worry of legal entanglements. It also allow us to promote ourselves, and by extension your games, using content from the site. So if you upload a game to the public site, you are agreeing to give away no more than if you were uploading a video to youtube.
Now, on to what I imagine is really concerning all: the uploading of your games that are meant for commercial sale for the iPhone.
Currently, all games uploaded for iPhone publishing are in a separate section of the site. These games are not shared with the rest of the site. There's an implicit understanding that by uploading for iphone publishing, we are "not to share your Submission with other users of the Site and Gendai Games Services". We own nothing except the right to display your game icon on your management page and provide you copies of your game prepared for the iphone.
Over the next few month as polish the publishing workflow, we will make this understanding more explicit by adding the appropriate language through our site and in the tool.
I apologize for taking so long to answer, and I hope I have addressed your concerns.
Wow, I'm going to have to really earn my Iron Chef title around here, aren't I?
Comments
Now that I read the terms again, it's not very clear, but the intention is for you to retain copyright ownership to all works you upload to our site. We'll work on clarifying that.
So next: Some examples that we currently foresee, include:
We may want to use a game of yours in an ad to promote GameSalad (and consequently, your game).
We may have to take characters, screenshots, etc.
We may want to display the ad through multiple channels (TV, print, web).
We don't want to have to contact you and license each usage of your game's IP.
As a general rule, we'd like to comply with the request of game authors, within reason. But without these clauses, we open ourselves up to lawsuits.
- no royalties
Games on our site are intended to be free. We want people to be able to distribute and share these games (including ourselves) without worry about royalties. We also make a minimal amount of money through ads at the moment, and we're no where NEAR the kind of volume that would allow us to share that money with you. Though this is a labor of love, we need to eat as much as the next guy.
Which brings us to: While this feature hasn't been implemented yet, we intend have an option where you check a box to share your game in "project" form under a Creative Commons license. That way you can learn from each other and re-mix each other's games.
These clauses are fairly standard for user-generated content websites. We want to encourage users to share their games as widely as possible. We'd also like free reign to use games to promote GameSalad. In the future, we may want to make GameSalad games available through channels other than the web... and as such, these terms allow us to do so.
That being said, none of these terms are meant to deprive you of your copyright ownership of your game. We intend to have separate terms of service for creators who join our future publishing system, whatever form that may take.
Hopefully, that helps to clear things up.
We plan on revising these terms of service to make them more clear and to provide similar but better stated rights.
very very good news!! thank you!! thank you!!
This sounds all very OK for me ... I for myself would love to see Gendai Games promoting GameSalad with footages of my games !
So i am relaxed now
Thank you and all the best
SDMG
I'm not trying to be difficult, honest! But there are a few points I'd like to make:
"Now that I read the terms again, it's not very clear, but the intention is for you to retain copyright ownership to all works you upload to our site. We'll work on clarifying that."
Wonderful!
"We may want to use a game of yours in an ad to promote GameSalad (and consequently, your game).
We may have to take characters, screenshots, etc.
We may want to display the ad through multiple channels (TV, print, web).
We don't want to have to contact you and license each usage of your game's IP.
As a general rule, we'd like to comply with the request of game authors, within reason. But without these clauses, we open ourselves up to lawsuits."
I've got no problem with this, but would this only include games on the website? I'd hate to think that any games of mine you've seen that are still 'in development' and not in the public domain (i.e. on your site) would be used without asking first...
"While this feature hasn't been implemented yet, we intend have an option where you check a box to share your game in "project" form under a Creative Commons license. That way you can learn from each other and re-mix each other's games."
As long as this is a choice, I've no problem with it. What I worry about, though, is that it may splinter the community. While there'll be lots of sharing of tips and tricks, I feel that we cover this in the forums pretty well already. What *could* happen is that the guys in it for the money will not post any more games up for fear it may be copied.
Also, I'm not that keen on 're-mixing' each others games. As I mentioned before, there's already a deluge of games that are simply the templates from GameSalad on the website. I'd hate to see a game I'd uploaded re-uploaded 10 times with someone else's name on it!
"That being said, none of these terms are meant to deprive you of your copyright ownership of your game. We intend to have separate terms of service for creators who join our future publishing system, whatever form that may take."
Sounds good sir. I'll wait till I see these then. It seems though, again, that the community may be split between the mushrooms (fun guys - geddit???) and the money grabbers!
"We plan on revising these terms of service to make them more clear and to provide similar but better stated rights."
Cool - look forward to it.
In short, we're trusting you guys. Don't let us down
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Big sigh of relief here... I'm taking everything you say at face value, so if all of the above is true, and as long as we retain the copyrights to our game, and GameSalad receives no royalties, I'm very happy with that!
Thank you again for taking the time out to clarify this as there were a lot of worried GS users
Have a good day
Also, are there any other template games that we can view besides the staple ones that were built into the program to get ideas on rules and movement etc?
@butterbean21 Sorry, we don't have any more templates at the moment, but we hope to build up that library at some point.
@quantumsheep These terms will only apply to games on the website. Don't worry, we won't be promoting games that were sent into use for tech support!
As for remixing and sharing games. I'm imaging that there will be a few complete and premium games that will not be up for Creative Commons sharing. Sharing is entirely optional.
What we'd like to see game creation flourish in the same way that open source has in the web world. I can imagine a community that has:
- A forum where people can discuss game design by example.
- A multitude of game play prototype "toys" that have minimal art, but everyone can incorporate into their games.
- A friendly atmosphere where people can remix each others games as a way of paying homage to the originals, to build upon them in a group effort, or compete with each other in a match of oneupmanship.
A multitude of copycats is an unfortunate reality of any community of user generated content. But that's no less true of the current game industry (how many games are really just Quake reskinned).
In the end, games are all about the finished product: design, art, execution, fun. We're depending on you, our community, to help highlight the best games. (Start using that "Favorite" button people!)
http://gamesalad.com/terms
NOTHING!!! has changed... !!! O_O
adent42 could you please comment why the old point 4 is now point 6 with some additions and GendaiGames is still allowed to redistribute my games??
I agree that Gendai Games is free to use a Submission on an unrestricted basis for any purpose, and you hereby grant to Gendai Games a non-exclusive, perpetual, worldwide, irrevocable, fully paid up, royalty-free, sublicensable (with the right to sublicense through multiple tiers of licensees) license (in any media, whether known or not currently known and invented) to link to, use, reproduce, create derivative works from, syndicate, license, print, sublicense, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, publicly display and publicly perform the Submissions, or any portion thereof, without notice, payment or attribution ...
I dont want to pay 2000$ every year to give you all rights of my game!
Haven't you told us that its not your intention to take our rights??
Sorry ... I don't understad this...
SDMG
to reproduce, license, sublicense... my games without paying me, at the moment i submit my game to GG for example to convert it to xcode??
What's the deal here?
When do you want to change these rules as promised??
When everybody already has submitted their games??
SDMG
im already unhappy to have to start paying for a software that is still beta.
now i have to deal with the possibility of my work being ripped off?
plz, this has been going on for over 2 months already.
To answer your questions, there are three new sections to note:
In the sharing sections you are quoting, we have added: The section "described below" AND: The scope of these terms, while broad, are fairly standard across the web for sharing site (think YouTube and Kongregate). It enables people visiting the site to share their content without worry of legal entanglements. It also allow us to promote ourselves, and by extension your games, using content from the site. So if you upload a game to the public site, you are agreeing to give away no more than if you were uploading a video to youtube.
Now, on to what I imagine is really concerning all: the uploading of your games that are meant for commercial sale for the iPhone.
Currently, all games uploaded for iPhone publishing are in a separate section of the site. These games are not shared with the rest of the site. There's an implicit understanding that by uploading for iphone publishing, we are "not to share your Submission with other users of the Site and Gendai Games Services". We own nothing except the right to display your game icon on your management page and provide you copies of your game prepared for the iphone.
Over the next few month as polish the publishing workflow, we will make this understanding more explicit by adding the appropriate language through our site and in the tool.
I apologize for taking so long to answer, and I hope I have addressed your concerns.
Wow, I'm going to have to really earn my Iron Chef title around here, aren't I?
yeees you have completly addressed my concerns!!!
Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!
and you have my apologies when my last posts were a bit rude!
So the paranoid SDMG has joined the early access program
lets make games now!
YIIIIIIIPPIEEEEEEH!!