Got cheated by a gs member, what to do?

hman360hman360 Member Posts: 590
edited November -1 in Miscellaneous
I was recently asked to make images for another gs member. I offered a price and we negotiated and finally we came to an agreement. After working on 1/3 of their project, they said they didn't like my price. I lowered it a little and they accepted once again and I continued working. (They said they would pay at the end and I trusted them, the moral of this story is to only accept at least half of the payment up front.) After the work was completed, they said they got another offer that was lower than mine, I said well its too late since I'm finished and you have to pay what you accepted. And then they said they would pay for part f my services and not the rest. Then I told them they can't go back on their agreement. And I told them I would contact my lawyer (which I did). Now they will not pay the full price. What should I do, is it worth suing for?

If anybody wants to know who the user is to avoid future problems, I may release his user name.

Sorry to the chefs if this is in the wrong place or is not allowed in the forum. If you don't like it you may delete it whenever.
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Comments

  • IsabelleKIsabelleK Member, Sous Chef Posts: 2,807
    They must pay you. If the price was quite high, so it pays you to sue them - do it.
  • RedlerTechRedlerTech Member Posts: 1,583
    Well he/she is definitely suable for such a thing. It really depends whether you'd like to, & if you think you're wasting your time.

    Matt

    EDIT: I see in the poll you haven't given the art yet. So maybe you could sue, then keep the art & use it in your own game?

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  • hman360hman360 Member Posts: 590
    @ NextGen, is that ok/legal?
  • RedlerTechRedlerTech Member Posts: 1,583
    Well yes, if you had agreed upon a price & he did not pay, then you don't give him anything. If the price was $1,000 (just a random number), & he ended up paying you $750 in total, the art should be yours. But then again, it may be suable on his part too that he payed you 750 and received nothing in return. But you can defend by bringing up the agreement of $1000 for all art. Not $750 for some/all art.

    Matt
  • hman360hman360 Member Posts: 590
    Now hes saying I can't make him pay since he didn't sign anything even though I have multiple emails in which he clearly accepted my offer.
  • RedlerTechRedlerTech Member Posts: 1,583
    Have you sent him any art already? :(
  • hman360hman360 Member Posts: 590
    No, but thank for your help nextgen
  • hman360hman360 Member Posts: 590
    Is it fair to give him a few hours to pay and if not sue him?
  • IsabelleKIsabelleK Member, Sous Chef Posts: 2,807
    hman360 said:
    Now hes saying I can't make him pay since he didn't sign anything even though I have multiple emails in which he clearly accepted my offer.

    I'm Master of Economy, and you can be sure that you can sue him. Oral agreement (and you have his permission in writing) is as important as signed contract.
  • RedlerTechRedlerTech Member Posts: 1,583
    Has he payed at all? If so, what amount?
  • IsabelleKIsabelleK Member, Sous Chef Posts: 2,807
    hman360 said:
    Is it fair to give him a few hours to pay and if not sue him?

    Yes it is.
  • tenrdrmertenrdrmer Member, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-Chef Posts: 9,934
    Moved to Miscellaneous…

    Ok So first of all Basically your screwed. If they have not received the art and you have not been paid legally nothing is owed unless you had a written contract. That why you need percentage if not all up front.

    You need to speak to your lawyer and if they advise its worth your time to sue then do so but I would imagine the answer will be there is no case.

    And next gen. A judge will never EVER allow you to be paid for something and then not hand over the product you are being paid for.

    hman360, I feel for you I have been ripped of because of trust before which is why I from now on wont ever start on someones project help until they have paid upfront in full. Another thing people don't always understand is When you hire me you are hiring my time not a guaranteed product unless I specifically say that is 100% possible to be done in this time frame. If you decide I'm taking to long and decide to abandon your project, You will not get a refund for the time I have spent unless I give you a guarantee upfront.

    But long story short. If there is no contract for services they owe you nothing if they have not accepted possession of the artwork. So in the future just get your money upfront before you start and then you are the one with the leverage when they change their mind.
    Warning There was an error rendering this rich post.
  • IsabelleKIsabelleK Member, Sous Chef Posts: 2,807
    BTW, you can give us his username, to protect other artists.
  • hman360hman360 Member Posts: 590
    Yeah, Mutinysoft btw, thanks for the support guys. I'll let you know what happens.
  • micksolomicksolo Member Posts: 264
    Forget about it mate...suing someone takes time and stress and just isn't worth it especially over this trivial amount of money.

    Yes you are probably right, but being right won't make your life better.

    You could name the person but who knows, maybe we didn't get both sides of the story and all it will do is start a flame war on here that will make you look just as unprofessional.

    Take it as lesson learned that you should:

    1. Make sure that everything is clearly spelled out in contracts or at the very least an email to which the other side replies to the email with "I agree".
    2. If you've never worked with someone before make sure you get a portion of the payment up front.
    3. You coiuld use E-Lance which has an escrow function (holds the money in place) until you both agree the milestones have been met. at least you know he's paid, even if you haven't received it.
    4, if you agreed a price and he changed his mind half way through why are you lowering your price? You're just letting people walk all over you. You should have either stood your ground or walked away.
  • hman360hman360 Member Posts: 590
    His thread is here: http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=29289
  • JohnPapiomitisJohnPapiomitis Member Posts: 6,256
    First off when you get hired always get at least half the money up front no matter what. Next like tendrmer said if your saying you did NOT give him the art, and he didnt pay, then you cant do jack about it. Nothings owed. Your just mad about him backing out, which sucks, but happens all the time. Your both in the same positions you were when you started, which the whole point of sueing is to put you were you before the sueable action happen. You both didnt pay anythign and he doesnt have your work and you have no wrtiien contract.
  • hman360hman360 Member Posts: 590
    @Micksolo

    #4 I lowered it a little because I thought he was a nice guy etc. he wanted me to lower beyond that but i stood at the price.

    It wasn't a large sum of money but I want him to see that you cannot do these types of things.
  • hman360hman360 Member Posts: 590
    My lawyer gave me a few options and I chose one, and I won't tell you guys yet but I think its a good option.
  • IsabelleKIsabelleK Member, Sous Chef Posts: 2,807
    JohnPapiomitis said:
    First off when you get hired always get at least half the money up front no matter what. Next like tendrmer said if your saying you did NOT give him the art, and he didnt pay, then you cant do jack about it. Nothings owed. Your just mad about him backing out, which sucks, but happens all the time. Your both in the same positions you were when you started, which the whole point of sueing is to put you were you before the sueable action happen. You both didnt pay anythign and he doesnt have your work and you have no wrtiien contract.

    He doesn't have to have signed contract. I don't know how it is in other countries, but in EU law, even oral agreement (contract) is valid.
  • JohnPapiomitisJohnPapiomitis Member Posts: 6,256
    Like we all said your wasting your time and money with a lawyer If he doesnt have the artwork and didnt pay
  • hman360hman360 Member Posts: 590
    Hey guys, I'm in the US btw.

    You guys really helped. He didn't believe he had to pay. I sent him a link to this thread and he agreed to pay the full amount. You guys are great.

    The option I chose is that if he didn't send the payment within 5 hours my lawyer and I agreed to sue him.
  • JohnPapiomitisJohnPapiomitis Member Posts: 6,256
    TheMoonwalls said:
    He doesn't have to have signed contract. I don't know how it is in other countries, but in EU law, even oral agreement (contract) is valid.

    O yea does have to sign a contract haha.Yes its an aggreement but i can assure you you cant walk into an american civil court and sue and get a settlement based solely on that. A oral contract is what you said oral, so if the other party says its untrue its thrown out the window right then and there unless theres proof someoens lyiend or there character shows that
  • IsabelleKIsabelleK Member, Sous Chef Posts: 2,807
    JohnPapiomitis said:
    Like we all said your wasting your time and money with a lawyer If he doesnt have the artwork and didnt pay

    He doesn't have art, because he didin't pay. Now, hman360 can sue him, not because Mutinysoft has the art, and didin't pay, but because he (hman360) made something (contract job) for Mutinysoft, and don't have his payment.
  • micksolomicksolo Member Posts: 264
    Seems weird though, if you've finished the work, why wouldn't they just accept it and pay you? This other artist would have to be a lot cheaper than you if they are prepared to pay you a portion and then pay another guy.

    Something doesn't quite add up here....you sure there's nothing else to the story?
  • IsabelleKIsabelleK Member, Sous Chef Posts: 2,807
    JohnPapiomitis said:
    O yea does have to sign a contract haha.Yes its an aggreement but i can assure you you cant walk into an american civil court and sue and get a settlement based solely on that. A oral contract is what you said oral, so if the other party says its untrue its thrown out the window right then and there unless theres proof someoens lyiend or there character shows that

    Here, in Poland many people "sign" oral contracts, and under EU law, it's as important, as contract on paper.
  • JohnPapiomitisJohnPapiomitis Member Posts: 6,256
    TheMoonwalls said:
    He doesn't have art, because he didin't pay. Now, hman360 can sue him, not because Mutinysoft has the art, and didin't pay, but because he (hman360) made something (contract job) for Mutinysoft, and don't have his payment.

    I wish i lived in the fantasy world you live in where you can walk around sueing people just on what they said based on oral aggreements NOTHING else and NO work exchanged. i would be rich!
  • micksolomicksolo Member Posts: 264
    hman360 said:
    Hey guys, I'm in the US btw.

    You guys really helped. He didn't believe he had to pay. I sent him a link to this thread and he agreed to pay the full amount. You guys are great.

    The option I chose is that if he didn't send the payment within 5 hours my lawyer and I agreed to sue him.

    Well there ya go...good work in getting the money, but hope you learned some valuable lessons which will help you avoid situations like this in the future.
  • JohnPapiomitisJohnPapiomitis Member Posts: 6,256
    ahh see thats the big difference right there. No offense but america is quite different then poland
  • StormyStudioStormyStudio United KingdomMember Posts: 3,989
    THE POWER OF THE FORUM... nice work...
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