AddictiveGames said: .."half finished" he hadn't even created 1 full level!!!!
This damages Gamesalads reputation in 3 ways:
1) The word "Gamesalad" features half a dozen times in the above TouchArcade Post on this game. This is a very negative post about a game that was compiled with GameSalad and has conned them out of their money. People are angry and all they now see today is the name Gamesalad and warnings saying Do Not Buy. This is terrible PR for Gamesalad as i'm sure most experiences devs and marketers would agree. There are still a lot of review sites that won't touch a Gamesalad game and this is part of the reason why.
2) It dilutes the effectiveness of the great template. Imagine if you were about to release your RPG game tomorrow that was made with the above template but different art. There will now be a huge amount of sceptical players who will say "oh its another gamesalad rpg template" and beware etc. Trying to promote a game like this on TouchArcade now will be mighty difficult.
3) Apple will not be happy with Gamesalad. Sure, they should never have allowed this "game" template to be released in the first place but once they start getting complaints and refund requests someone will look into it. If this keeps happening I worry about Apple and Gamesalad's relationship. We don't want our GS community to be associated with such rubbish.
I really like Darren's (and Wayne's) templates but to not replace/watermark the art is just lazy in my opinion. This sort of thing is happening a lot but is completely preventable. A youtube video showing all the art in glory is enough to sell the template. I hope this can be resolved shortly, we should all be working to improve Gamesalad's image.
DZTECH said: I especially hate this because I am in the middle of working on a game with this template however unlike him I added tons of my own art as well and I also am working onnan Aditional 20 levels.
Im sorry but IMO Your no better then this guy I just downloaded "iwill protect lite" to see if your telling the truth 1 the play again button does not work 2 there is one level and then the game does not end it just carrys on with nothing happing How did this peice of shxt get on the app store Sorry dont norrmaly get bothered by posts but is this guy for real The only thing i can think is this game was in the passed and now he's trying to make up For it. Im carm again now
Yet another reason GS should cost 99 at minimum to publish to app store. People like this ruin both the product, template maker and other users reputation
jonmulcahy said: Yet another reason GS should cost 99 at minimum to publish to app store. People like this ruin both the product, template maker and other users reputation
iWill protect lite is a bad game yes but iWill Protect has 25 levels. if you report a copy right infringement it won't work because templates come with art. As i have said before I am not ashamed because i don't upload straight up. I add more levels or in some cases waves and more assets such as art and music. I never send it the way it is. And I can tell you for a fact the people who upload them as is don't make any money off of them.
The worst part about this is that he is making money. I just looked it up on AppAnnie and it is the #1 Role Playing game in Panama and #28 in US. It is also #1000 overall in US. You should all go check it out. It is really impressive. I think to stop this from happening is that UtopianGames should submit their templates as their own games to make sure if anyone tries to do this Apple will see it is an exact copy of an app already on the store.
I can't believe someone is this thick and actually posts a template without making any reasonable changes...
This will leave us with 4 options:
a) [as mentioned by tshirtbooth] the templates will not include the art from now on... which makes it a little harder to sell and follow a tutorial if everything is a box [still doesn't stop copy cats - as we have experienced with the 'shadow run' template]
b) We will include watermarks and mess up certain parts of the art to make it clear that this is template art. A little messy and a bit more work for the artist [wait... that's me... not a good idea ]
c) We will include the art but state clearly that it is for personal use only and can not be used for any professional project. To be honest I doubt anyone will be stopped by this as the current case is clearly a fraud already - a simple disclaimer won't stop people like him.
d) We will release the template as a free game / minigame ourselves. This might lead to problems with Apple as the game templates are not complete games. In order to submit them we would need to add to them and make them more playable.
Option B i would say. I like your templates, they're very useful, they would be more un-appealing without art and a lot harder to clearly see what is going on. Use a batch action for watermarking all your art, this way with sample or something written over every piece of art surely people won't submit as is and if did, surely Apple would reject.
The problem with this one is....that because Darren and the guys made it look so good, this dev is going to be getting a lot of impulse buyers grabbing the game because of it's looks alone. These buyers tend not to look at reviews etc...so he is onto a winner!
As for apple letting it through....Their approval process is really only there to make sure the app functions (i.e. doesn't crash), and doesn't breach any obvious copyright. It's not for them to say if a game is "playable and fun" really. If they did have that right, I think there would be a lot of people up in arms whinging about Apple being a nanny state probably.
It's a sad state of affairs though.
Watermarking seems like the way forward to me...but even then, I think it was slimline games, when he published Darren's platformer template....didn't he leave the text labels on the platforms and such
Apple should have checked the support page and the fraudulant claims like 'award winning'/ 'huge worlds' [when there is just one background and 5 different tree layouts]/ 'entering houses' [when there is just one].
Darren and I discussed the issue and we will watermark the art from now on when the templates ship and keep the 'clean art' for the promo video and eventually for separate art packs.
im sure somewhere in the user agreement with Gamesalad and the individual user there has to be a fair trade/abuse of license bit in there...GS devs should have these apps pulled from the store to prevent more people hating... i've only made one game but worked well hard on that and am midway through my next and don't want to realise 60% of my sales will go because gamesalads reputation...Darren you need to watermark your art work!
SAZ_1 - it's not Darren's fault... We do make out templates in the best way possible to show what can be created with the technology you purchase... Our aim is to push the limits of GS and enable others to learn from it and take their games to a new level....
...and this game is not the only reason why people don't like gamesalad games... There are a lot of other games out there that are way worse and give GS a bad name.
Gamesalad itself has the ability to monitor but probably neither the resources nor the intention to do so.
We will alter the way we sell out templates which is sad and timeconsuming and won't put a complete stop to this 'template abuse'... but it's wrong to blame Darren for what a few GS do to make a quick buck.
I think this is going to be the highest profile "crap app" linked with GameSalad though... due to it being based on the Zelda games, which is going to appeal to a huge fanbase...
So its popularity, and "must buy" appeal for many customers is going to be where it does the most damage.... which is a shame for GameSalad and DeepBlueApps, as the template, when used as intended is a great learning tool and platform for building proper games.
Watermarking the assets should go a long way to stopping things like this....
jonmulcahy said: Yet another reason GS should cost 99 at minimum to publish to app store. People like this ruin both the product, template maker and other users reputation
It's looking more and more like they should do this. However, if GG does do this they will get some blacklash and negative press for it. I think it is worth it for their reputation.
DZTECH said: As i have said before I am not ashamed because i don't upload straight up. I add more levels or in some cases waves and more assets such as art and music. I never send it the way it is. And I can tell you for a fact the people who upload them as is don't make any money off of them.
What are you talking about? You have like 3-4 games that are exactly the same as darrens templates. Same art, gameplay, ect.
There are 2 solutions to stop this. Make gamesalad paid again. Or stop providing art with the templates. Neither of which I think will happen.
UtopianGames said: we're working on a solution guys.
Darren.
Can you not just watermark the art? There's lots of ways to do this and it would only add a few moments to do before your templates go on sale? You could still display the full art in your excellent youtube videos...anyway glad your taking action
DreamLab said: What are you talking about? You have like 3-4 games that are exactly the same as darrens templates. Same art, gameplay, ect.
There are 2 solutions to stop this. Make gamesalad paid again. Or stop providing art with the templates. Neither of which I think will happen.
No I don't do that. I even email darren and tell him before i upload it to let him know and get his permission. Mine are never straight up. Ask him if you don't believe me. Here as an email he sent me. I sent him this.
I don't know if you have seen the forum posts lately about people who submit your templates as is. I was mentioned as one of them but I wanted to clear that up with you. I don't submit your templates as is. I always add levels (or waves), and or add more art and music as well as other assets. If you don't want me doing this either i can consider taking them down. Thanks!
He sent me this.
Hi David,
Yes i know you change things m8 it's the people that simple upload as-is that there on about i think.
Tell me which one. Also the person that this post was about never came to defend himself. I did come to join the discussion as soon as my name came up because I am not submitting templates as is. So I will defend myself.
Comments
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Well said, sir!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
This is why the splash screen is invaluable....
I truly do worry about GS's reputation more and more with this stuff, especially when more and more of these cases are reported to Apple...
Your no better then this guy I just downloaded "iwill protect lite" to see if your telling the truth
1 the play again button does not work
2 there is one level and then the game does not end it just carrys on with nothing happing
How did this peice of shxt get on the app store
Sorry dont norrmaly get bothered by posts but is this guy for real
The only thing i can think is this game was in the passed and now he's trying to make up
For it.
Im carm again now
Send and Receive Data using your own Server Tutorial! | Vote for A Long Way Home on Steam Greenlight! | Ten Years Left
http://www.marco.org/2010/05/06/thats-a-problem
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
This will leave us with 4 options:
a) [as mentioned by tshirtbooth] the templates will not include the art from now on... which makes it a little harder to sell and follow a tutorial if everything is a box [still doesn't stop copy cats - as we have experienced with the 'shadow run' template]
b) We will include watermarks and mess up certain parts of the art to make it clear that this is template art. A little messy and a bit more work for the artist [wait... that's me... not a good idea
c) We will include the art but state clearly that it is for personal use only and can not be used for any professional project. To be honest I doubt anyone will be stopped by this as the current case is clearly a fraud already - a simple disclaimer won't stop people like him.
d) We will release the template as a free game / minigame ourselves. This might lead to problems with Apple as the game templates are not complete games. In order to submit them we would need to add to them and make them more playable.
These buyers tend not to look at reviews etc...so he is onto a winner!
As for apple letting it through....Their approval process is really only there to make sure the app functions (i.e. doesn't crash), and doesn't breach any obvious copyright.
It's not for them to say if a game is "playable and fun" really. If they did have that right, I think there would be a lot of people up in arms whinging about Apple being a nanny state probably.
It's a sad state of affairs though.
Watermarking seems like the way forward to me...but even then, I think it was slimline games, when he published Darren's platformer template....didn't he leave the text labels on the platforms and such
(this platform can tilt...etc)
Darren and I discussed the issue and we will watermark the art from now on when the templates ship and keep the 'clean art' for the promo video and eventually for separate art packs.
...and this game is not the only reason why people don't like gamesalad games... There are a lot of other games out there that are way worse and give GS a bad name.
Gamesalad itself has the ability to monitor but probably neither the resources nor the intention to do so.
We will alter the way we sell out templates which is sad and timeconsuming and won't put a complete stop to this 'template abuse'... but it's wrong to blame Darren for what a few GS do to make a quick buck.
Id rather looses the sale then have someone buy it and upload as is.
Templates should be used for learning and building on. I could be wrong but i thought TSB did provide art with his templates?
It might be his own art but it's still more than a few blocks and circles or am i wrong?
Our templates are not the only ones that suffer from uploading as-is and we're working on a solution guys.
Darren.
So its popularity, and "must buy" appeal for many customers is going to be where it does the most damage.... which is a shame for GameSalad and DeepBlueApps, as the template, when used as intended is a great learning tool and platform for building proper games.
Watermarking the assets should go a long way to stopping things like this....
There are 2 solutions to stop this. Make gamesalad paid again. Or stop providing art with the templates. Neither of which I think will happen.
I sent him this.
I don't know if you have seen the forum posts lately about people who submit your templates as is. I was mentioned as one of them but I wanted to clear that up with you. I don't submit your templates as is. I always add levels (or waves), and or add more art and music as well as other assets. If you don't want me doing this either i can consider taking them down. Thanks!
He sent me this.
Hi David,
Yes i know you change things m8 it's the people that simple upload as-is that there on about i think.
Your cool with us m8.
Darren.
Ive downloaded one of his"changed templates" and its the straight up template with nothing changed. Hes full of bs