Free then not free this is crazy!

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Okay seriously and I know this is going to piss off people but I can live with that. Who can keep track of what was once free and now is not? Gamesalad need to organise methods for free stuff and paid. They undermine the market place by letting people advertise their outside sites on the forums. There should be two places to get content a paid market place and a free market place. I was accepted to the marketplace for my audio work so why should I share a cut with GS if I can just do my own? What's the point of a market place if the forums are just one big billboard? GS should also have as links page like Apple does for third party sites selling stuff and you put you link in there. In my opinion, and it's just my opinion, this is starting to get a bit crazy and needs to be streamlined. So fire away at me, I can take it!

LeonardDeveloper

:P

LumpApps

I am confused about this. When I posted a question earlier about what themes people liked to see in the marketplace my thread got closed by a head. Now I see people posting there templates in the forum and that is ok.
Can someone explain or give me a link to these rules. I'd like to post when I have a new asset out but an afraid to do something not allowed so I don't.
I am not complaining btw but simply do t know what is allowed.
Cheers,
Ludwig

ozboybrian

I kind of agree with you.
GS is still beta and we still have to pay for the Pro membership which is more then most of the competition out there who are no longer in beta.
So they're making a fair amount of money already. But then I guess it's a service and I guess it's a smart way of making money by banning self advertisement on the forums.

It's their company and their decision but I definitely see where you're coming from.
But there isn't much we can do about it, they're really strict on their fine print from what i've noticed. I get the vibe of "if you don't like it, go else where"
But the market place is a nice way to have everything together, but then it makes GS look a lot better having a market place so at the same time I don't see why they need a cut when it actually does make the whole product more appealing to potential customers.

And so what if what you said ticks people off mate, your entitled to your opinion and you should be able to voice your thoughts on the matter!

Just my 2 cents + some more small change.

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LumpApps

I just read sss's post. @tenrdrmer This means my earlier post asking theme's can be reopened right? Or am I nitpicking now??
Cheer.

LeonardDeveloper

I agree!

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The_Gamesalad_Guru

Who knows as the rules keep shifting..lol @leonard, nice billboard.. I think I'll make a pull my finger template.

LumpApps

Btw I meant a sous closed my post not a head.

ozboybrian

And I quote:
"Requesting ideas for artwork and sound packs that appeal to the community, to be created and sold on the main Marketplace. This one is an important change to note. Previously no advertising was allowed on the forum, including idea gathering. The assumption based on this was that a user could use this as a way to circumvent the Marketplace and the forum rules to sell via email or private messaging. Obviously this one was a bit more oversight than was necessary - we encourage you to offer your items for sale on the marketplace so they reach a broader audience - and posts presented in a manner where it's clear you're looking for ideas are completely safe. (However, please refrain from including your email in these posts.)"

I would love to rant but I think i'll get in trouble!... Again. =/

LumpApps

Thanks sss!

ozboybrian

lol

The_Gamesalad_Guru

I should put this in some context. There are templates that were given out at one time and as we all know in the digital world once you let something loose for free distribution it's impossible to pull it back. I just think this complicates matters as it's not like a iOS game where you can't pass it on. I understand and agree with not sharing templates that have always been only for sale, that is stealing but to give away something freely and then decide later on to offer it for sale and restrict it's use, is as you say a rabbit hole. It's like which came first, the chicken or the egg? I myself don't use templates much, in fact only once did it do a small game in my first app which was off a free template. Now that I've developed my skills, I prefer to develop my own code but it seems to create more gray than black and white. I know there is no pleasing everyone, which is why I just recommended organizing things not taking away rights to market just a more organized way to do it.

ozboybrian

Good point man.

Maybe set up a file type which un copyable. (Of course some hacker could set up some copy or whatever but yeah, it's a slow down at least)
I think if anyone wants to make their Temps free, they should only send the free version to select few of their trusted friends/colleagues.

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The_Gamesalad_Guru

For example say someone develops a game off a free template they unknowingly acquired that is no longer free and makes a game from it. As we know with the Internet things can go viral with no rhyme or reason, so the game becomes a hit and then the person gets interviewed and says yeah I got the template and built the game. You get where I am going? Talk about a can of worms..lol this is why I do my own code. I may look to see how it's done but I down't use templates unless they are out of GS creater or I have a purchase history. Never say never, life is stranger than fiction.

tenrdrmer

@FryingBaconStudios You are right about the template. I have seen templates flow for free from some of the third party sites then those download link are removed and the free templates are now a low price or included in a pack for sale. I personally don't see how one can expect people to buy something that has been downloaded free 1000's of times. The other thing we have to decide is if I picked it up for free is it wrong to redistribute it for free as long as you give the original dev credit? Who knows.

@LudwigHeijden Yeah the rules were adjusted yesterday, so yours and a few others could be reopened or restarted. If SSS missed your thread post a link and I can reopen it for you.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Exactly, tenrdrmer unless you specify the distribution limits at the start I believe it is rightly in the public domain. So if I print a book and don't copyright it then I can't go back and do so once I put it in the public domain, especially without a limited commercial use terms attached. Even if you purchase something it should have a legal terms of use that is specified.like in the marketplace there are specific guidelines the seller and buyer agree to. I just think if you're going to be in business don't do it half ass and expect the same rights.

David_GryphonsRealm

@SaladStraightShooter : I was wondering if you knew why my thread got closed down : http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/38468/download-a-bunch-of-gs-templates-in-a-zip-file-for-free#Item_9

As i have a feeling thats why the question came into question of what once was free isn't anymore ( p.s. I didn't know that by the way, THX )

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Who would David, you can't search everything. I don't fault you at all, thank you for trying to help others!

David_GryphonsRealm

@FryingBaconStudios : yea i tried, so now i don't know if I'm allowed to re-upload the link w/o that template in it, u know. I don't want to get banned or something from the forum. I really enjoy being part of this community
I guess I'll just wait to see what happens.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

Yes David all this stuff gives people who tend to cross their T's and dot their I's pause.

MotherHoose

Link still works … @David_GryphonsRealm !

since this seems to be an air your gripes spot …
I hate when things are promoted as a Template and they are just a Demo!

a Template does not just show you one way of doing something!
a GS Template should show you many ways, many implementations of behaviors; so that, with the skills demonstrated you can start creating a good game …
Thankfully, there are skilled GS developers who do just that with their templates!

@FryingBaconStudios … a copyright is a right to copy and that is retained by the creator from the time of creation till if/when they chose to sell their rights/ or rellinquish their rights by making their creation PublicDomain … they do not have to notify you that the work is copyright; that is intrinsic in the creation.
whether a © holder choses to enforce their rights or not is up to them. They can give freely of their work to whomever the want; and charge others for it.
EX: you can give away 50 copies of your game with PromoCodes … while at the same time charging others $4.99 for a copy … it is your right to do so!

@};- MH

David_GryphonsRealm

@motherhoose : yea I'm not home so I can't disable the link yet. And I don't understand what ur trying to tell me about the templates. Lol. Jus saying

LeonardDeveloper

@david_gryphonsrealm
Your thread was obviously closed for the reasons that i have stated in it!
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The_Gamesalad_Guru

Ah yes an app has that because there are written terms on the app store, as a former writer I would disagree as many writers have lost rights even when copyrighted. A copyright is never implied it must be obtained through a proper legal process. Just like alexander gram bell wasn't the only one who invented the telephone he was just the first one to the patent office. Which is why when a copyright expires it can be freely distributed like old written works or old TV shows et...

LeonardDeveloper

@fryingbaconstudios
"Alexander Graham Bell, Not "Alexander Gram Bell"
:P

The_Gamesalad_Guru

The balance in copyright is drawn by limiting property rights to the author's particular method of expressing an idea or information. Copyright never gives rights in the idea being expressed, or in facts or other elements of the public domain which an author may incorporate into his work. Others are free to express the same idea as the author did, or use the same facts, as long as they do not copy the author's original way of expressing the ideas or facts. In addition, even those rights granted in the author's expression are limited in duration and are subject to certain exceptions permitting public use under limited circumstances.

MotherHoose

@Fry the copyright laws and intellectual property rights laws changed greatly in 1995 (Berne became international criteria) and in 2002!
and, since 1989, in the USA, the symbol has not been required as a notification of copyright … nor is registration with the US Copyright Office required.

think those dates are well after Alexander Graham Bell patented the works of others … also think patents are much more delineated and stringent than ©

and, copyright implies a right to copy a specific work of creation … ideas/thoughts and titles are not copyrightable … (though titles/names can be trademarked)

all the current rules/regulations/laws are like the Tech issue … times change and the new replaces the outdated.

@};- MH

LumpApps

@tenrdrmer thanks! And no offense btw so you know.
The post seems to be gone but I am on my iPhone so I could be wrong.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

I yes I understand no symbol is required and such but try to get a copyright suit through the courts without a paper trail and you'll spend more money than most are worth. I understand the trademark as we have trademarked characters and it cost thousands of dollars to trademark something as a copyright is much cheaper. Some writers used to do the poor man's copyright which was to seal your work in an envelope and mail it to yourself as a postage stamp date is binding. Ah all us Philadelphia lawyers...lol

Okay so how I read things free or paid unless you get written and/or published licensing terms for a template you may not be safe. I'm not sure if a paid template constitutes a work for hire? I could be argued that way in court I imagine. Makes you think about how you conduct business in case your game becomes the next app lottery winner..lol

gamedivision

That's what amazed me so much GS is making money of the back of your hardwork,I suppose looking at all that money transfer was too much of a deal for them to look at,and they wanted a slice of the pie.
20 or 30% I think is absolute disgraceful,you shouldn't be charging anyone anything to advertise on your free site,people already pay for your tools,
I only found out this when I bought a template and the owner told me they take a percentage.
And I'm never going to buy from the Market place again.

Edit by: SSS for content.

The_Gamesalad_Guru

This whole business of the way people are buying and selling things is more like a circus than a thought through business model. If you're going to by something from half ass vendors then caveat emptor! It doesn't matter how good the vendor or the quality of their product, make sure you get the proper terms for what you are purchasing and remember everyone is nice when we're talking in terms of a few bucks but when there is real money involved things can change fast. If you buy something from the trunk of a car, just be careful.