@TSB Actually , no , its x4 larger , if you have 2x2 pixel image , then you have 4 pixels in your image , now for retina it will be 4x4 , so 16 pixels in your image , 16 pixels is 4 times larger 4 pixels , therefor your retina image is x4 larger , Think of it as x2 to the width and another x2 for the height
And about the iPhone 4 art that are ready to use in the iPad , yeah this one is suck, we gonna have to redo a lot of art! Roy.
Probably ! ) . . . and to be honest I've no experience with iPhone Retina 'resolution independence' in Gamesald so am likely getting some of this wrong. . . . .
But the question is still sitting there, which is effectively are we able to access all those pixels on an iPad Retina display . . . . For example how would I place the tip of my hypothetical arrow precisely on X=125 pixels, that is to say on the 125th pixel across on the 2048 pixel wide Retina display ?
The images on a screen 2 times as wide and 2 times as tall will be 4 times as big, doubling in two dimensions quadruples size.
So in theory whereas a full screen image on an iPad1/2 might be 1MB - the same image at the resolution of an iPad3 will be 4MB, rather than 2MB (but in reality various compression considerations tend to make the leap in size less than simply quadrupling the orginal file size).
It is certainly gonna be one big boatload of data for the GS engine to motor around the pond however they figure it. But what Tynan is getting at is exactly what people have been living with on the 4/4S. We kind of only manipulate at 480x320 whereas the engine addresses 960x640. Anyone done an RI build and checked the location of where x.5 and y.5 positioned actors end up ?
gyroscopeI am here.Member, Sous Chef, PROPosts: 6,598
edited February 2012
@Rob wrote: "Anyone done an RI build and checked the location of where x.5 and y.5 positioned actors end up ?"
@Tynan "But the question is still sitting there, which is effectively are we able to access all those pixels on an iPad Retina display" No , the only pixels you will have access to are those that are within the 1024x768.. and you gonna need to develop your game based on that .
"No , the only pixels you will have access to are those that are within the 1024x768.. and you gonna need to develop your game based on that"
Cheers Roy, that makes sense. With proofing on the device and putting your layout together in Photoshop I think this issue shouldn't be too much of a problem - and probably not an issue at all in 90% of projects.
One further question . . . (again, I have no experience of iPhone/GS resolution independence and how it all works, so I am bit in the dark on this issue) . . . when you build your 1024 x 768 Gamesalad project . . . click 'resolution independence' (in future GS versions) . . . . and then drag in some 2048 x 1536 pixel background images into this 1024 x 768 project . . . place them in the scene . . . and scale them down to 1024 x 768 . . . if you now preview this project on the actual iPad3 will the images show up as 2048 x 1536 (or as 1024 x 768) ?
(The thing I am a little confused by is at what stage Xcode/PNGcrush makes the second set of files . . . I'd presume it would be at the publishing stage (?))
Cheers in advance for any insights you might have.
@Tynan Ok here is a bit of explanation on how it works , Say you have an iPad project , and you have a background actor that its size is 1024 x 768 , now you import the 2048 x 1536 image to GS , and apply this image to your actor , your actor's size (width and height) will still remain 1024 x 768 , but its image will be the big retina image (2048 x 1536) , now you gonna have to flag the 'resolution independence' (in future GS versions of-course) and what will happen is that when you publish your project , and it goes through GS servers , they take all your images and make a NON-retina version of them , so in the file you get back (the ipa file) you will have 2 files for every image , 1 file will be your original retina image you supplied, and the new file (that is made by GS) will be there and it will have a lower res (say for your bg image , GS will make a new 1024 x 768 image) . Then when the game runs on the device , GS engine auto detect if this device is retina or non-retina , and it chooses what files to display on screen according to that detection.. the big 2048 x 1536 retina files for the retina devices , or the small 1024 x 768 files for the non-retina devices.. Hope this clears out thing a bit.
Cheers Roy, that all makes sense, but my question (in fact my whole concern about dealing with Retina iPad 3 suff) is about the creating end of the equation.
Sorry to sound like a stuck record (but you seem to know what you are talking about !! So I will keep on at you until you crack and reveal everything you know . . ).
Here's the situation . . . . we are working on an iPad project in Gamesalad (a 1024 x 768 project with our hypothetical 2048 x 1536 full screen BG image) . . . now if we preview this project on the actual iPad3 itself what are we likely to see on it's screen, a 2048 x 1536 image or a 1024 x 768 image ?
@Tynan Its fine you can ask as much as you want , and I'm sorry in advanced if i misunderstood your previous questions , after all english is not my native
Continuing my explanation in the last post ... Like i said once you compile the project in GS, the you get a "complied" file in return , this file will contain 2 sets of images , the retina images that you supplied , and the non-retina images that GS servers creates for you .. Now to your question , when you preview the project on an actual iPad 3 , you will see on screen the 2048 x 1536 image!! and its done automatically by the engine ! The reason for that is that the iPad 3 will have a screen with 2048 x 1536 resolution .
Now say you preview the project in iPad 1 or 2 , the image that will be displayed is the 1024 x 768 image (that GS made for you when you publish) , this is also automatically done by the engine .
">>once you compile the project in GS, the you get a "complied" file in return . . . . .
>>you will see on screen the 2048 x 1536 image!! and its done automatically by the engine
>>iPad 1 or 2 , the image that will be displayed is the 1024 x 768 image (that GS made for you when you publish) , this is also automatically done by the engine "
I don't think I am explaining my question very well . . . . I am not asking about publishing or compiling - but about previewing, the thing that happens before and independent of publishing.
If I design something in GS - and then preview it on my iPad, the GS servers have played no part so can generate no images for me - in fact I don't even need an internet connection to work in Gamesalad and still pass the files over to my iPad to preview them. I imagine the vast majority of people work like this, perhaps for months, before ever publishing anything.
This is the scenario I am talking about, a working process (fairly standard I suspect) where you design something, throw it over to the iPad, take a look, change a bit here, a bit there, throw it back over to the iPad . . . and so on. Obviously in this scenario there is no interaction with the GS severs nor is Xcode and PNGcrush accessed to generate two versions of the images, that only happens at the publishing stage ? (tell me if I have any of this wrong).
That is my question, when previewing a 1024 x 768 Gamesalad project on your iPad3 will the images be 2048 x 1536 ?
@Tynan .. Haha sorry i though you talked about what happen at the actual file the user downloads from the appstore
As for the PREVIEWING locally in the viewer: You know that when you press the "preview on the device" button , so it says "compressing game assets" This is exactly what it does , it make a temporary small images for the current session . So if you preview (on the device viewer) your game on iPad 3 in the future , you will see the 2048 x 1536 image.. and if you preview THE SAME project on iPad 1 or 2 you will see the 1024 x 768 image, also , done automatically and behind the scene by GS.
@P-O-M Thats me! :P No I'm curious as to what apple would do for a changeover.... I suppose with will be the same as what they did with iPhone 4.... But iPad is bigger and larger!
"You know that when you press the "preview on the device" button , so it says "compressing game assets" // . . . . . So if you preview (on the device viewer) your game on iPad 3 in the future , you will see the 2048 x 1536 image.. and if you preview THE SAME project on iPad 1 or 2 you will see the 1024 x 768 image, also , done automatically and behind the scene by GS."
Ah! I see, that makes perfect sense, it's at the 'compressing game assets' stage that GS checks what it is connected to and scales the project accordingly . . . . cheers for explaining.
I, for better or worse, only started designing my first iPad game after the iPad 3 rumors started. So I have been creating my assets at double res to prepare for it and using them in the current GS creator. (With the exception being any 1024x768 backgrounds, etc.) It's a little inefficient for the time being, but I hope it pays off in the long run.
You guys have to note that in the actual iPad's, and iPhone's, we can't use pictures larger than 1024 pixels... How the iPad 3 will work with background pictures equal to 1536x2048? Will the iPad 3 display it? or display a white square? that's the question....
@sebmacfly Once there will be an iPad with a retina display , you can count on GS to give you a proper update with all the necessary features , such as importing images in 1536x2048 size .. don't worry
If you develop a project for retina iPad these days , you can use 4 actors for the background , split your 1536x2048 into 4 pieces, each 1024x768 image And place them on the scene , just for the development stage , after the update will come you can change it in no time ..
@sebmacfly If you develop a project for retina iPad these days , you can use 4 actors for the background , split your 1536x2048 into 4 pieces, each 1024x768 image And place them on the scene , just for the development stage , after the update will come you can change it in no time ..
The Retina on the new iPad is working only on GS Viewer. Not on Published games... We really need the Resolution independence for the new iPad, please GS support!
normally any images 2048x1536 are probably only used as backgrounds
the less than BG-sized objects should be easy to do at the bigger sizes needed for retina beauty … and we determine their displaySize in our actors … so no problem here … but the backgrounds (especially gradients) yuck!
haven't worked with it enough … but try this -create your BG actor -set the W,H and X,Y and set Graphics Horizontal and Vertical Wrap to Fixed -import a 2048x1536 image and letting GS resize it … -close project -Show Package Content -replace that 1024 with your original large image -open project -dragOn the image
really makes a super intense display of the background … IMO what we are looking for in new iPad's retinaDisplay.
I at the moment am working on a game which client wants to have iPad3 support.
After reading every single post (needed the insight) I still have a question that remains.
The "recommended" way to lay your game is with the iPad3 size? I mean sure the only "full big" image is the BG but what about the buttons? They too will be twice the size as a normal non-retina button. How are these handled?
in any image … a large image sizedDown for display does not blur you should use the large size RetinaDisplay … displays more of the detail in an image
the 2x images you add to your actors … with those actors' sizes for smaller in scene will look great on iPad3
as you pointed out @romma … the backgrounds size of import is limited in GS keep working on your project … believe we will have an newBuild from GS soon that will be RetinaDisplay … and handle your backgrounds beautifully … so all of our mostly-complete projects will only need imports of larger backgrounds
Comments
Actually , no , its x4 larger , if you have 2x2 pixel image , then you have 4 pixels in your image , now for retina it will be 4x4 , so 16 pixels in your image ,
16 pixels is 4 times larger 4 pixels , therefor your retina image is x4 larger ,
Think of it as x2 to the width and another x2 for the height
And about the iPhone 4 art that are ready to use in the iPad , yeah this one is suck, we gonna have to redo a lot of art!
Roy.
"You look at this the wrong way"!
Probably !
But the question is still sitting there, which is effectively are we able to access all those pixels on an iPad Retina display . . . . For example how would I place the tip of my hypothetical arrow precisely on X=125 pixels, that is to say on the 125th pixel across on the 2048 pixel wide Retina display ?
"POM, don't you mean import 2x larger images"
The images on a screen 2 times as wide and 2 times as tall will be 4 times as big, doubling in two dimensions quadruples size.
So in theory whereas a full screen image on an iPad1/2 might be 1MB - the same image at the resolution of an iPad3 will be 4MB, rather than 2MB (but in reality various compression considerations tend to make the leap in size less than simply quadrupling the orginal file size).
Umm.... in the pond? :-)
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
@Tynan
"But the question is still sitting there, which is effectively are we able to access all those pixels on an iPad Retina display"
No , the only pixels you will have access to are those that are within the 1024x768.. and you gonna need to develop your game based on that .
Roy.
"No , the only pixels you will have access to are those that are within the 1024x768.. and you gonna need to develop your game based on that"
Cheers Roy, that makes sense. With proofing on the device and putting your layout together in Photoshop I think this issue shouldn't be too much of a problem - and probably not an issue at all in 90% of projects.
One further question . . . (again, I have no experience of iPhone/GS resolution independence and how it all works, so I am bit in the dark on this issue) . . . when you build your 1024 x 768 Gamesalad project . . . click 'resolution independence' (in future GS versions) . . . . and then drag in some 2048 x 1536 pixel background images into this 1024 x 768 project . . . place them in the scene . . . and scale them down to 1024 x 768 . . . if you now preview this project on the actual iPad3 will the images show up as 2048 x 1536 (or as 1024 x 768) ?
(The thing I am a little confused by is at what stage Xcode/PNGcrush makes the second set of files . . . I'd presume it would be at the publishing stage (?))
Cheers in advance for any insights you might have.
Ok here is a bit of explanation on how it works ,
Say you have an iPad project , and you have a background actor that its size is 1024 x 768 , now you import the 2048 x 1536 image to GS , and apply this image to your actor , your actor's size (width and height) will still remain 1024 x 768 , but its image will be the big retina image (2048 x 1536) , now you gonna have to flag the 'resolution independence' (in future GS versions of-course) and what will happen is that when you publish your project , and it goes through GS servers , they take all your images and make a NON-retina version of them , so in the file you get back (the ipa file) you will have 2 files for every image , 1 file will be your original retina image you supplied, and the new file (that is made by GS) will be there and it will have a lower res (say for your bg image , GS will make a new 1024 x 768 image) .
Then when the game runs on the device , GS engine auto detect if this device is retina or non-retina , and it chooses what files to display on screen according to that detection.. the big 2048 x 1536 retina files for the retina devices , or the small 1024 x 768 files for the non-retina devices..
Hope this clears out thing a bit.
Roy.
Cheers Roy, that all makes sense, but my question (in fact my whole concern about dealing with Retina iPad 3 suff) is about the creating end of the equation.
Sorry to sound like a stuck record (but you seem to know what you are talking about !! So I will keep on at you until you crack and reveal everything you know . .
Here's the situation . . . . we are working on an iPad project in Gamesalad (a 1024 x 768 project with our hypothetical 2048 x 1536 full screen BG image) . . . now if we preview this project on the actual iPad3 itself what are we likely to see on it's screen, a 2048 x 1536 image or a 1024 x 768 image ?
Its fine you can ask as much as you want , and I'm sorry in advanced if i misunderstood your previous questions , after all english is not my native
Continuing my explanation in the last post ...
Like i said once you compile the project in GS, the you get a "complied" file in return , this file will contain 2 sets of images , the retina images that you supplied , and the non-retina images that GS servers creates for you ..
Now to your question , when you preview the project on an actual iPad 3 , you will see on screen the 2048 x 1536 image!! and its done automatically by the engine !
The reason for that is that the iPad 3 will have a screen with 2048 x 1536 resolution .
Now say you preview the project in iPad 1 or 2 , the image that will be displayed is the 1024 x 768 image (that GS made for you when you publish) , this is also automatically done by the engine .
For any more questions don't hesitate to ask.
Roy.
">>once you compile the project in GS, the you get a "complied" file in return . . . . .
>>you will see on screen the 2048 x 1536 image!! and its done automatically by the engine
>>iPad 1 or 2 , the image that will be displayed is the 1024 x 768 image (that GS made for you when you publish) , this is also automatically done by the engine "
I don't think I am explaining my question very well . . . . I am not asking about publishing or compiling - but about previewing, the thing that happens before and independent of publishing.
If I design something in GS - and then preview it on my iPad, the GS servers have played no part so can generate no images for me - in fact I don't even need an internet connection to work in Gamesalad and still pass the files over to my iPad to preview them. I imagine the vast majority of people work like this, perhaps for months, before ever publishing anything.
This is the scenario I am talking about, a working process (fairly standard I suspect) where you design something, throw it over to the iPad, take a look, change a bit here, a bit there, throw it back over to the iPad . . . and so on. Obviously in this scenario there is no interaction with the GS severs nor is Xcode and PNGcrush accessed to generate two versions of the images, that only happens at the publishing stage ? (tell me if I have any of this wrong).
That is my question, when previewing a 1024 x 768 Gamesalad project on your iPad3 will the images be 2048 x 1536 ?
Cheers.
Haha sorry i though you talked about what happen at the actual file the user downloads from the appstore
As for the PREVIEWING locally in the viewer:
You know that when you press the "preview on the device" button , so it says "compressing game assets"
This is exactly what it does , it make a temporary small images for the current session .
So if you preview (on the device viewer) your game on iPad 3 in the future , you will see the 2048 x 1536 image.. and if you preview THE SAME project on iPad 1 or 2 you will see the 1024 x 768 image, also , done automatically and behind the scene by GS.
Roy.
You always so competitive
Roy.
Thats me! :P
No I'm curious as to what apple would do for a changeover.... I suppose with will be the same as what they did with iPhone 4.... But iPad is bigger and larger!
"I'm curious as to what apple would do for a changeover"
Indeed very curious , guess we will just have to wait until march 7th to find out !
Roy.
Helly ya... Im going to be watching the keynote live!
"You know that when you press the "preview on the device" button , so it says "compressing game assets" // . . . . . So if you preview (on the device viewer) your game on iPad 3 in the future , you will see the 2048 x 1536 image.. and if you preview THE SAME project on iPad 1 or 2 you will see the 1024 x 768 image, also , done automatically and behind the scene by GS."
Ah! I see, that makes perfect sense, it's at the 'compressing game assets' stage that GS checks what it is connected to and scales the project accordingly . . . . cheers for explaining.
:-bd
How the iPad 3 will work with background pictures equal to 1536x2048? Will the iPad 3 display it? or display a white square? that's the question....
Once there will be an iPad with a retina display , you can count on GS to give you a proper update with all the necessary features , such as importing images in 1536x2048 size .. don't worry
If you develop a project for retina iPad these days , you can use 4 actors for the background , split your 1536x2048 into 4 pieces, each 1024x768 image And place them on the scene , just for the development stage , after the update will come you can change it in no time ..
We really need the Resolution independence for the new iPad, please GS support!
the less than BG-sized objects should be easy to do at the bigger sizes needed for retina beauty … and we determine their displaySize in our actors … so no problem here … but the backgrounds (especially gradients) yuck!
haven't worked with it enough … but try this
-create your BG actor
-set the W,H and X,Y and set Graphics Horizontal and Vertical Wrap to Fixed
-import a 2048x1536 image and letting GS resize it …
-close project
-Show Package Content
-replace that 1024 with your original large image
-open project
-dragOn the image
really makes a super intense display of the background … IMO what we are looking for in new iPad's retinaDisplay.
can't test on iPad … no viewer
Fixed Wrap http://cookbook.gamesalad.com/tutorials/1/parts/4
@};- MH
No one has as yet published a GS game at Retina resolution so that's perfectly normal.
After reading every single post (needed the insight) I still have a question that remains.
The "recommended" way to lay your game is with the iPad3 size? I mean sure the only "full big" image is the BG but what about the buttons? They too will be twice the size as a normal non-retina button. How are these handled?
Thanks!
you should use the large size
RetinaDisplay … displays more of the detail in an image
the 2x images you add to your actors … with those actors' sizes for smaller in scene
will look great on iPad3
as you pointed out @romma … the backgrounds size of import is limited in GS
keep working on your project
… believe we will have an newBuild from GS soon that will be RetinaDisplay
… and handle your backgrounds beautifully
… so all of our mostly-complete projects will only need imports of larger backgrounds