I would prefer they do not work backwards. An .exe would be cool, but... Vista is EOL, so you can and should ignore its existence. Windows 7 is what was before Windows 8, so Windows 8 with its new app store (for us to sell our games) is the more logical choice.
Also, there is a lot happening in video game land for indie devs. It would better for the community as a whole if they targeted the platforms that are growing instead of shrinking...
We have Windows 8, But not Windows 8 Phone, But I hear that's coming.
And there are several more up and coming things that I would rather them focus their attention on.
So first... Fix Bugs. The Platforms we have need attention.
second... Take the next natural step... (W8 Phone, Ouya look to be the obvious ones, but Im not voting, just observing)
Third... our previous step means we stop here to fix more bugs...
Fourth... Take another natural step forward. Whatever it may be at this point. Since this point would be a year away... No one knows what should go here...
@DeepBlueApps.com (Steam and Microsoft were both notorious for being heavy handed in their game curating) So Microsoft reduced their high barrier of entry by reducing costs for indies and giving us separate curation than the AAA studios. This is called Xbox Live Indie Games (XBLIG). Steam has a service called Greenlight. Where the public votes for your Title, When you have enough votes, you can release.
But yea... with the direction things seem to be going, I would prefer Gamesalad start getting their ducks in a row for things like Game Controllers. I say controllers because when I think about the choices of what is out there... The most cross-compatible thing seems to the controller.
My 2 cents... (though it looks more like 37 cents... damn walls of text)
@3itg I'm more thinking where the indie is audience is now. Not where it might be in 5 years.
A big part of the indie scene is still rooted in PC.
+ There are quite a few indie PC stores for which there would be no fees involved at all.
Of course it all depends on the game. My latest one for example is no good for pc as it's very much a mobile game. But the one before that prob is good for pc.
Im not talking about a 5 year plan... Anything that GS works on now, is not relevant to "now"... its relevant to the future, since that is when it will be released. Even further into the future, I don't see a reason to target Windows 7.
Exporting to a .exe would be cool... but specifically targeting Windows7 or older doesn't make sense. (This is partly because of the wording used, .exe work on win8 as well as win7, vista, and xp... but that doesn't mean they target XP, you just want .exe export)
@HoneyTribeStudios The reason Indie Games seem rooted in PC is that it was the only platform you could run a website, have people download your game and play it with little to no involvement of anyone else. It was the earliest form of self-publishing... First doesn't make it best.
In a quickly evolving industry like games (or anything tech based) its best to keep your eyes on the road ahead of you, anything visible in the rearview should stay where it is. Behind you.
Read my fourth point: "Fourth... Take another natural step forward. Whatever it may be at this point. Since this point would be a year away... No one knows what should go here..."
I actually put it within a one year time frame... Then said what comes after that should be assessed at a later point.
@3itg I bet you a promo code that if the GS guys really felt like it - they could have .exe exporting up and running in two weeks. They got a monkey and a wizard now
If we could export to .exe but for some reason couldn't target win 7 and XP that wouldn't make sense. That's where all the pc users are.
I could be wrong but I think Steam still relies on exe packages as well as the fact that most people still don't have (or want) Windows 8. Considering that vast majority of people who would like the ability to export to exe, I respectfully disagree with you 3itg.
Im just saying that windows 7 isn't very forward looking. Publish to an .exe would be cool... The fact that it works on older OS is a cool feature, but I don't think it will ever achieve a top spot on the priority list.
I think with the addition of @CodeWizard that brings GS to a grand total of 7 engineers.
I think there are more compelling reasons to work on other features though. If you are looking to bring a simple game to a PC platform, as a .exe... You can learn everything you need to know, Code it, compile it and release it faster than GS will support it.
You are correct, "if the GS guys really felt like it" they could do it. Which is why I was saying, at the speed at tech moves, there are more compelling reasons to work on other stuff.
I will say it again... I think it would be cool too... But I do not think, in my opinion, that there is reason enough to devote attention to it. There are other opportunities, that will more directly benefit GS as a whole.
GS, so far has given us platforms that have a Developer Program and (at least one) Dedicated Marketplace.
When I think where GS will go from here... I try to take the past events as a good indication of the future. I look for platforms that fit their mold, not break it. I look for small individual concepts that would benefit multiple platforms, not the thing that will help the niche.
Things that all platforms have that we don't... Cameras... Networking... (Multiplayer-Capable)
Things that most games have that we don't... Controllers (even on phones, Bluetooth controls and gamepads are big right now.) Downloadable Content (DLC).
@3itg No, no, no. The idea is GS give us all the publishing options we want so I don't have to go and learn how to make stuff in different development environments
C# is a great place to start with a friendly syntax. You can choose from hundreds of applications to code in... From notepad to unity... Truly platform-agnostic... And when you are done, you have source that you can do whatever you want with, no terms of service to worry about... code that you understand, since you wrote it. Publish to any platform you want, versatile HTML5... no problem, want an .exe, no problem. You can even target Linux if you feel so inclined.
I went and learned C#... Then I added Unity to the mix. I will likely still code the software that fits Gamesalad with Gamesalad. But when I want online multiplayer... I now feel empowered that I can do it without having to wait for Gamesalad if it doesn't fit my plans. AND!!!! Learning real code will make you better at Gamesalad... The concepts are the same.
@3itg Good points. A friend recommended I start learning javascript for the same kind of reasons. I started reading an intro to it and apart from the absence of loops GS seems to work pretty much the same way.
I suppose it's easy to feel comfortable in what you already know. In GS, any new gameplay idea I have I know I can get a basic working version in a day.
Im not trying to be down on you or negative in anyway. Im just saying that if you want something specific and its not in GS. There is likely a very good reason for it, whether we like it or understand why is a completely different story. Besides everything we think, Gamesalad has a business to run, and everything we ask for, they have to pay people to create, test, retest, rebuild, release, fix bugs and handle community backlash from said bugs... all while ensuring what they are paying to have created will also be something that be used to draw in more paying customers so they can continue to pay people to create more. (Here is my favorite: advertising... Why is it available to android, iOS but not win8 or HTML5... Im sure if the GS Devs really felt like it... its just a few lines of code, etc...)
Im genuinely trying to be helpful. JavaScript is good language to learn. I had some experience with JS but decided not to pursue learning it directly, as I don't like the syntax. I went for C# because its easier to read as a human. A nice side effect, is that I understand JS even more, without trying... because Im learning C#
When its all said and done. If the Game can be done in GS, it doesn't matter what languages you know, You will have a playable game faster in GS, than if you code yourself. Its only to your advantage to learn as much as you can, about as much as you can.
If you want to ask GS for something, something like monogame would get you what you want, and make a WAY MORE compelling argument. So cmon @CodeWizard ... throw in something like monogame... im sure its just a few lines of code It also reinforces my reasons for learning to code - platform-agnosticism makes it way easier to reach the audience you want.
Its fine to disagree with me. I disagree, that's why Im talking.
Its built on a framework. Win8 technically doesn't support XNA either, however monogame exports Win8 Apps. I don't think iOS or android "technically" support XNA either... didn't stop them from exporting to it. Your code likely is just getting interpreted differently based on which platform you select when exporting. Just like GameSalad... they wrap it up, how it needs to be, based on the platform you selected. I don't mean for them to implement monogame directly. I was just pointing to something that exists that gets many jobs done, things that I want, things that you want, and that would provide a large overall benefit GS and its community as a whole. Kind of a "Think Globlaly- Benefit Locally" mindset.
Comments
An .exe would be cool, but... Vista is EOL, so you can and should ignore its existence.
Windows 7 is what was before Windows 8, so Windows 8 with its new app store (for us to sell our games) is the more logical choice.
Also, there is a lot happening in video game land for indie devs.
It would better for the community as a whole if they targeted the platforms that are growing instead of shrinking...
Wii U rumors it supports HTML5 Based Gaming.
Wii U has trying to get attention amongst indie devs with its eShop:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/03/dan_adelman_nintendo_aims_to_make_eshop_publishing_as_frictionless_as_possible
Microsoft XBLA Indie is $100 (and is one of the most profitable platforms to sell on, I hear):
http://create.msdn.com/en-US/home/faq/xbox_live_indie_games
Sony looks to be adopting a self-publishing model similar to Apple to get Indie Games into the PS4 store:
http://gamer.blorge.com/2013/02/23/indie-devs-flock-to-ps4-to-self-publish-how-the-witness-became-ps4-exclusive/
Ouya = Android with a Gamepad:
http://www.ouya.tv/develop/
We have Windows 8, But not Windows 8 Phone, But I hear that's coming.
And there are several more up and coming things that I would rather them focus their attention on.
So first... Fix Bugs. The Platforms we have need attention.
second... Take the next natural step... (W8 Phone, Ouya look to be the obvious ones, but Im not voting, just observing)
Third... our previous step means we stop here to fix more bugs...
Fourth... Take another natural step forward. Whatever it may be at this point. Since this point would be a year away... No one knows what should go here...
@DeepBlueApps.com
(Steam and Microsoft were both notorious for being heavy handed in their game curating)
So Microsoft reduced their high barrier of entry by reducing costs for indies and giving us separate curation than the AAA studios. This is called Xbox Live Indie Games (XBLIG).
Steam has a service called Greenlight.
Where the public votes for your Title, When you have enough votes, you can release.
But yea... with the direction things seem to be going, I would prefer Gamesalad start getting their ducks in a row for things like Game Controllers.
I say controllers because when I think about the choices of what is out there...
The most cross-compatible thing seems to the controller.
My 2 cents...
(though it looks more like 37 cents... damn walls of text)
A big part of the indie scene is still rooted in PC.
+ There are quite a few indie PC stores for which there would be no fees involved at all.
Of course it all depends on the game. My latest one for example is no good for pc as it's very much a mobile game. But the one before that prob is good for pc.
Anything that GS works on now, is not relevant to "now"... its relevant to the future, since that is when it will be released.
Even further into the future, I don't see a reason to target Windows 7.
Exporting to a .exe would be cool... but specifically targeting Windows7 or older doesn't make sense. (This is partly because of the wording used, .exe work on win8 as well as win7, vista, and xp... but that doesn't mean they target XP, you just want .exe export)
@HoneyTribeStudios
The reason Indie Games seem rooted in PC is that it was the only platform you could run a website, have people download your game and play it with little to no involvement of anyone else. It was the earliest form of self-publishing... First doesn't make it best.
In a quickly evolving industry like games (or anything tech based) its best to keep your eyes on the road ahead of you, anything visible in the rearview should stay where it is.
Behind you.
Read my fourth point:
"Fourth... Take another natural step forward. Whatever it may be at this point. Since this point would be a year away... No one knows what should go here..."
I actually put it within a one year time frame... Then said what comes after that should be assessed at a later point.
If we could export to .exe but for some reason couldn't target win 7 and XP that wouldn't make sense. That's where all the pc users are.
Publish to an .exe would be cool...
The fact that it works on older OS is a cool feature, but I don't think it will ever achieve a top spot on the priority list.
I think with the addition of @CodeWizard that brings GS to a grand total of 7 engineers.
I think there are more compelling reasons to work on other features though.
If you are looking to bring a simple game to a PC platform, as a .exe... You can learn everything you need to know, Code it, compile it and release it faster than GS will support it.
Its easy...
http://www.ehow.com/how_6352221_create-studio-2008-express-edition.html
You are correct,
"if the GS guys really felt like it" they could do it.
Which is why I was saying, at the speed at tech moves, there are more compelling reasons to work on other stuff.
I will say it again... I think it would be cool too...
But I do not think, in my opinion, that there is reason enough to devote attention to it.
There are other opportunities, that will more directly benefit GS as a whole.
GS, so far has given us platforms that have a Developer Program and (at least one) Dedicated Marketplace.
When I think where GS will go from here... I try to take the past events as a good indication of the future.
I look for platforms that fit their mold, not break it.
I look for small individual concepts that would benefit multiple platforms, not the thing that will help the niche.
Things that all platforms have that we don't...
Cameras...
Networking... (Multiplayer-Capable)
Things that most games have that we don't...
Controllers (even on phones, Bluetooth controls and gamepads are big right now.)
Downloadable Content (DLC).
You should be developing yourself constantly... as well as your games.
Right now I'd rather learn how to make games rather than learn how to use any specific software.
You can choose from hundreds of applications to code in...
From notepad to unity...
Truly platform-agnostic...
And when you are done, you have source that you can do whatever you want with, no terms of service to worry about... code that you understand, since you wrote it.
Publish to any platform you want, versatile HTML5... no problem, want an .exe, no problem. You can even target Linux if you feel so inclined.
I went and learned C#... Then I added Unity to the mix.
I will likely still code the software that fits Gamesalad with Gamesalad.
But when I want online multiplayer... I now feel empowered that I can do it without having to wait for Gamesalad if it doesn't fit my plans.
AND!!!!
Learning real code will make you better at Gamesalad... The concepts are the same.
I suppose it's easy to feel comfortable in what you already know. In GS, any new gameplay idea I have I know I can get a basic working version in a day.
(Here is my favorite: advertising... Why is it available to android, iOS but not win8 or HTML5... Im sure if the GS Devs really felt like it... its just a few lines of code, etc...)
Im genuinely trying to be helpful.
JavaScript is good language to learn. I had some experience with JS but decided not to pursue learning it directly, as I don't like the syntax.
I went for C# because its easier to read as a human. A nice side effect, is that I understand JS even more, without trying... because Im learning C#
When its all said and done.
If the Game can be done in GS, it doesn't matter what languages you know, You will have a playable game faster in GS, than if you code yourself.
Its only to your advantage to learn as much as you can, about as much as you can.
In Unity, You can use JavaScript, C# or BooScript.
But Since this thread is about platforms...
@HoneyTribeStudios
The best way to sum up my point is to look at this:
http://monogame.codeplex.com/
http://monogame.net/
If you want to ask GS for something, something like monogame would get you what you want, and make a WAY MORE compelling argument.
So cmon @CodeWizard ... throw in something like monogame... im sure its just a few lines of code
It also reinforces my reasons for learning to code - platform-agnosticism makes it way easier to reach the audience you want.
Its fine to disagree with me.
I disagree, that's why Im talking.
XNA? Well now microsoft are ceasing support for it, how does it fit into your forward thinking world? Haha, just joking.
Win8 technically doesn't support XNA either, however monogame exports Win8 Apps.
I don't think iOS or android "technically" support XNA either... didn't stop them from exporting to it. Your code likely is just getting interpreted differently based on which platform you select when exporting. Just like GameSalad... they wrap it up, how it needs to be, based on the platform you selected.
I don't mean for them to implement monogame directly.
I was just pointing to something that exists that gets many jobs done, things that I want, things that you want, and that would provide a large overall benefit GS and its community as a whole.
Kind of a "Think Globlaly- Benefit Locally" mindset.