I am really looking forward to Async Multiplayer. However is seems to be a little hard to use. Will it be hosted by GameSalad or will I have to host it myself? @CodeWizard
Disappointing to see the editor/interface improvements seem to be relegated to low priority again in favour of larger "projects". I don't understand why it keeps getting shoved to a back burner in favor of adding new stuff all the time. We've been crying out for smaller improvements to the editor interface for years... And surely it's easier to do small interface improvements than do things like Asynchronous multiplayer and server type stuff.
Don't get me wrong... It's good to see any improvements to the tool.. I'm just questioning why the bigger, more complicated projects always seem to get prioritised over fixing/improving/bringing the editor interface into the 21st century...
@Chunkypixels I understand the frustration. There are a bunch of priorities fighting for attention here. We do small fixes and improvements regularly. We just haven't focused on UI fixes and tweaks yet.
The reason why larger projects take the focus is because we have business reasons for doing them. Async multiplayer is a good example. We signed on to build History Fighter which called for multiplayer support. So we assigned an engineer to work on that for the past couple of months.
We do have a nice long list of improvements to make. And we're balancing those against bugfixes and other issues raised by you guys. The bug list is long too. And when a coder gets "free" time, they tend to hop on those issues first.
I hear you though. We need to spend some time biting those smaller UI fixes off too. I'm sure more will get attention soon.
I come from a game development background, and have worked with a lot of engine and tool programmers so I have a pretty good understanding of how hard/easy it is for reasonably competent coders to do many of the smaller interface improvements compared to the larger projects which over the years always get prioritised by Gamesalad.... Which is why it frustrates me.
For the sake of a couple of weeks concentrated programmer time doing the interface/workflow improvements the tool would see a bigger usability improvement step than months and months spent on all the other add ons.
Many of the interface improvements have been requested by the community for years, and quite frankly it's rather shocking that standard things like multiple copy and paste, snap to grid, etc still have not been implemented.
It always seems to keep coming back to prioritising other projects that involve GameSalad attempting to increase its revenues by doing deals with other 3rd parties... Rather than just building and improving the much neglected core engine and tool interface.
It saddens me that after all this time, the Gamesalad management doesn't understand that building a more robust tool with a better interface that's not outdated will benefit them more in the long run than spending so much time and resources on chasing the 3rd party deals all the time.
Seriously.. If it were up to me I'd bang a lot of heads together... The interface/workflow improvements should be top priority... Not bottom. They give a much bigger bang per buck than anything else, and are so long overdue it's becoming a joke.
...sorry for the long post... I understand your still relatively new (at GameSalad), and trying to do your best. It's just frustrating to see GameSalad slipping back into its old ways, and not learning from past experiences.
...sorry for the long post... I understand your still relatively new (at GameSalad), and trying to do your best. It's just frustrating to see GameSalad slipping back into its old ways, and not learning from past experiences.
see i disagree with this entirely, I understand your frustration, there are parts of GS that drive me crazy, but the information and features that have come out in the past 6 mths have surpassed the previous 3 years combined.
I think the next 6 mths are going to show even better things, hopefully an improved creator as well
@Chunkypixels While smaller workflow improvements are nice, async is really big.If you think about almost all successful new games, they all have some kind of multiplayer integrated. The push notifications thing is awesome too. For me, I like big features rather than small tweaks.
@Chunkypixels My background is in major software development/management too and while I agree that the improvements you are looking at would make a big difference (especially the two you mention), I am guessing the reality is that for Gamesalad to keep being free for most - and to keep going forward - they have to look at revenue first.
If the choice is that to keep GS going long-term and being inconvenienced by stuff that we can still do with a work around, I'm going to put up with it.
That doesn't mean that the improvements shouldn't be made at all though - maybe the new developer could be put on them as a learning experience when they are first hired @CodeWizard??
Don't get me wrong... It's good to see any improvements to the tool.. I'm just questioning why the bigger, more complicated projects always seem to get prioritised over fixing/improving/bringing the editor interface into the 21st century...
Agreed, it is frustrating to watch another half a year go by and still rudimentary features and bug fixes not being addressed, I understand there are business reasons for what gets prioritised and I'm sure everyone at GS HQ is working really hard but it's still frustrating nonetheless.
Looking very much forward to #6 "Lots of incremental improvements here should be showing up in the nightly build soon."
I mean, I love all the new additions and stuff, but the engine really needs to provide better performance in terms of fps (and also RAM usage). I wish you guys put all your efforts into this instead of pushing out new features..
4. We're neck deep integrating Amazon's in-app-purchase and GameCircle systems. When this is done, you'll be able to create IAP / GameCircle apps on Kindle Fire for FREE. More news soon!
if you need pro to publish to android how can you do this free or an I misunderstanding something?
@Codewizard As many probaly has noticed does Gamesalad crash sometimes(for me 2-3 times every time I work with it) So I save every 3 minute. But sometimes I forget and I have to start over...So I suggest add a "auto save" feature.
I agree with @chunkypixels. I know GS is trying to hire more people, I hope they hire a top notch interface designer. I think the interface should function and have characteristics of something like photoshop or Apple motion where one never leaves the window to access everything and anything. Going in and out of actors is so damn time consuming. Could it be that hard to implimented a backstage window like the windows version?
Plus a few simple things. One I asked for the custom preview screen size which one can create in the view drop down menu in preview but it doesn't save as a preset. I mean it's all already there. You can create the preset, name it, designate a size but it doesn't save. How hard can it be to make it save the setting? I'd like to see that in the nightly builds and in the next update to creator.
Nice improvements and roadmaps. Waiting to see it in real flesh...
Though I can't figure out where did some of the mystical features disappear.. one of 'em that i can think was the custom loader. I believe it was 'almost ready' about 3 weeks back. :!!
Either ways i don't have much real complaints besides these silly ones. Go strong GS !!
I thought there was an auto save in previous versions...I could swear GS seemed to save all the crap mistakes I made that I did not want to save and then it all stopped in 0.10.3...or am I dreaming?
I thought there was an auto save in previous versions...I could swear GS seemed to save all the crap mistakes I made that I did not want to save and then it all stopped in 0.10.3...or am I dreaming?
It doesn't fully auto save, but it does update the xml as changes are made, so some changes are saved automatically. Such as image deletion and importing of new images.
On another note, I know from a business standpoint that making deals and adding features probably makes the most sense for the short term. However if you want to expand the user base you have, you have to have a high performing engine up to par with the other offerings out there. This means reducing crashes, improving workflow, and improving performance on apps. Multiplayer is about the only thing lately that seems to be a step in the right direction for a more professional engine, and of course i'm sure you can monetize the crap out of it. But if the workflow is slow, the engine/app crashes, and i'm looking to build a top end async game with a large amount of animations, GS isnt going to be the prime choice.
Anyway just one guys opinion, I know you're getting to it when you can, but don't keep us hanging too long! Thanks for the transparency and continued support.
I come from a game development background, and have worked with a lot of engine and tool programmers so I have a pretty good understanding of how hard/easy it is for reasonably competent coders to do many of the smaller interface improvements compared to the larger projects which over the years always get prioritised by Gamesalad.... Which is why it frustrates me.
Oooh, that's a dangerous game there. I mean, sure, it's easy to sit back from way over there and say things like that. But, in reality, the complexity of our systems and various moving parts aren't all that easy to grock from your perspective. This isn't a knock on your experience -- just saying that the particulars of how "easy" something is to implement in our code may not map to something you're comfortable with (or would expect).
Many of the interface improvements have been requested by the community for years, and quite frankly it's rather shocking that standard things like multiple copy and paste, snap to grid, etc still have not been implemented.
I agree! We need to get on these improvements. The question is, when can we do it? You won't hear any argument from me, or the team, or any other executive on this point. Improving creator is really important.
It's interesting to note that you might think "multiple copy and paste" would be easy. But that would require multiple selection support. The Creator codebase was not architected with this feature in mind. So, adding it is rather costly and time consuming for us. Thus it sits on the back burner.
For the sake of a couple of weeks concentrated programmer time doing the interface/workflow improvements the tool would see a bigger usability improvement step than months and months spent on all the other add ons.
We could knock out a bunch of smaller issues in a few weeks, no doubt. But it's all about when we prioritize those things. Do we fix those smaller issues before other more serious bugs? And how do we roll those changes out to both Windows / Mac (if needed)? And so on. Which leads us to...
It always seems to keep coming back to prioritising other projects that involve GameSalad attempting to increase its revenues by doing deals with other 3rd parties... Rather than just building and improving the much neglected core engine and tool interface.
You're right. Prioritization at the top level is focused on revenue. Some of that is through focus on third party deals.
But the core strategy is: improving the engine and improving creator. First priority is improving the engine both performance-wise and feature-wise. Creator improvements are important to us, but they're currently taking a back seat to the engine improvements.
It saddens me that after all this time, the Gamesalad management doesn't understand that building a more robust tool with a better interface that's not outdated will benefit them more in the long run than spending so much time and resources on chasing the 3rd party deals all the time.
Oh, we understand. I promise we do. I'd like to take one moment and let you look up our skirt on developer resources:
On the engine / tools side, we have four full time programmers. Two of them have experience with Creator and the other two are more engine-focused. I also code as I find the time to do so. But I'm not dedicated to coding full time.
These four programmers have to deal with Mac Creator, Windows Creator, Lua engine, HTML5 engine, Android platform, iOS platform and Tizen platform (and more). We're balancing stuff pretty well from where I'm sitting.
Now, as of today, we have one programmer working on multiplayer. Another is reworking our build processes and laying the groundwork for future engine improvements. Another is focused on the HTML5 engine. And the last one is picking up various and sundry tasks (like iOS 7, bug fixes, stretch to fit, managing nightly builds). I'm doing Amazon SDK integration and helping out on the HTML5 engine optimization.
@BlackCloakGS is the floating engineer. And he's chomping at the bit to do Creator improvements. Heck, he drove the information gathering process to find out what everyone wants to see. He just poked his head in my office to ask what I think about all of this. I told him, get on those improvements when you can. Alas, he's busy right now with some project obfuscation tasks, iOS 7 compatibility and some other sundry stuff. He's hearing you though and will likely bang some stuff out soon.
Seriously.. If it were up to me I'd bang a lot of heads together... The interface/workflow improvements should be top priority... Not bottom. They give a much bigger bang per buck than anything else, and are so long overdue it's becoming a joke.
...sorry for the long post... I understand your still relatively new (at GameSalad), and trying to do your best. It's just frustrating to see GameSalad slipping back into its old ways, and not learning from past experiences.
I almost took offense at the "slipping back into its old ways" comment. But I'm good now.
Rest assured that we're hearing you and will get to those low-hanging-fruit improvements as soon as we can.
Braydon_SFXMember, Sous Chef, Bowlboy SidekickPosts: 9,273
see i disagree with this entirely, I understand your frustration, there are parts of GS that drive me crazy, but the information and features that have come out in the past 6 mths have surpassed the previous 3 years combined.
I think the next 6 mths are going to show even better things, hopefully an improved creator as well
IMHO I attribute much of all this amazing progression, steam rolling, and community communication to @CodeWizard and many of the other newer staff. Nothing against the older staff, but it just seems like since they have come in they listen to us more. Respond to our questions and concerns. And of course, they are pumping out amazing new and useful aspects to Gamesalad. Prior to these sudden GOOD changes I was ready to toss GS aside.
I agree great work with such limited resouces! I hope you guys find some more talent to help ease the burden. It's no fun being boos, cook and bottle washer.
We have several things we need to finish up before we can call it 1.0. Can't really elaborate on that yet, but it's something we're noodling about internally. After a few key features are implemented we should be good to go.
I couldn't care less whether it's still in beta or not - it works, and I make games with it, what's there not to like!
As for features - engine improvements are still number one for me. Faster load times and better performance (particularly now we're all having to develop for retina devices) is a must.
We have several things we need to finish up before we can call it 1.0. Can't really elaborate on that yet, but it's something we're noodling about internally. After a few key features are implemented we should be good to go.
Comments
*Mind Blown*
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Don't get me wrong... It's good to see any improvements to the tool.. I'm just questioning why the bigger, more complicated projects always seem to get prioritised over fixing/improving/bringing the editor interface into the 21st century...
I understand the frustration. There are a bunch of priorities fighting for attention here. We do small fixes and improvements regularly. We just haven't focused on UI fixes and tweaks yet.
The reason why larger projects take the focus is because we have business reasons for doing them. Async multiplayer is a good example. We signed on to build History Fighter which called for multiplayer support. So we assigned an engineer to work on that for the past couple of months.
We do have a nice long list of improvements to make. And we're balancing those against bugfixes and other issues raised by you guys. The bug list is long too. And when a coder gets "free" time, they tend to hop on those issues first.
I hear you though. We need to spend some time biting those smaller UI fixes off too. I'm sure more will get attention soon.
Juggling all these priorities is like...
I come from a game development background, and have worked with a lot of engine and tool programmers so I have a pretty good understanding of how hard/easy it is for reasonably competent coders to do many of the smaller interface improvements compared to the larger projects which over the years always get prioritised by Gamesalad.... Which is why it frustrates me.
For the sake of a couple of weeks concentrated programmer time doing the interface/workflow improvements the tool would see a bigger usability improvement step than months and months spent on all the other add ons.
Many of the interface improvements have been requested by the community for years, and quite frankly it's rather shocking that standard things like multiple copy and paste, snap to grid, etc still have not been implemented.
It always seems to keep coming back to prioritising other projects that involve GameSalad attempting to increase its revenues by doing deals with other 3rd parties... Rather than just building and improving the much neglected core engine and tool interface.
It saddens me that after all this time, the Gamesalad management doesn't understand that building a more robust tool with a better interface that's not outdated will benefit them more in the long run than spending so much time and resources on chasing the 3rd party deals all the time.
Seriously.. If it were up to me I'd bang a lot of heads together... The interface/workflow improvements should be top priority... Not bottom. They give a much bigger bang per buck than anything else, and are so long overdue it's becoming a joke.
...sorry for the long post... I understand your still relatively new (at GameSalad), and trying to do your best. It's just frustrating to see GameSalad slipping back into its old ways, and not learning from past experiences.
I think the next 6 mths are going to show even better things, hopefully an improved creator as well
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If the choice is that to keep GS going long-term and being inconvenienced by stuff that we can still do with a work around, I'm going to put up with it.
That doesn't mean that the improvements shouldn't be made at all though - maybe the new developer could be put on them as a learning experience when they are first hired @CodeWizard??
"Lots of incremental improvements here should be showing up in the nightly build soon."
I mean, I love all the new additions and stuff, but the engine really needs to provide better performance in terms of fps (and also RAM usage).
I wish you guys put all your efforts into this instead of pushing out new features..
Roy.
if you need pro to publish to android how can you do this free or an I misunderstanding something?
As many probaly has noticed does Gamesalad crash sometimes(for me 2-3 times every time I work with it) So I save every 3 minute. But sometimes I forget and I have to start over...So I suggest add a "auto save" feature.
Plus a few simple things. One I asked for the custom preview screen size which one can create in the view drop down menu in preview but it doesn't save as a preset. I mean it's all already there. You can create the preset, name it, designate a size but it doesn't save. How hard can it be to make it save the setting? I'd like to see that in the nightly builds and in the next update to creator.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
Though I can't figure out where did some of the mystical features disappear.. one of 'em that i can think was the custom loader. I believe it was 'almost ready' about 3 weeks back. :!!
Either ways i don't have much real complaints besides these silly ones. Go strong GS !!
On another note, I know from a business standpoint that making deals and adding features probably makes the most sense for the short term. However if you want to expand the user base you have, you have to have a high performing engine up to par with the other offerings out there. This means reducing crashes, improving workflow, and improving performance on apps. Multiplayer is about the only thing lately that seems to be a step in the right direction for a more professional engine, and of course i'm sure you can monetize the crap out of it. But if the workflow is slow, the engine/app crashes, and i'm looking to build a top end async game with a large amount of animations, GS isnt going to be the prime choice.
Anyway just one guys opinion, I know you're getting to it when you can, but don't keep us hanging too long! Thanks for the transparency and continued support.
It's interesting to note that you might think "multiple copy and paste" would be easy. But that would require multiple selection support. The Creator codebase was not architected with this feature in mind. So, adding it is rather costly and time consuming for us. Thus it sits on the back burner. We could knock out a bunch of smaller issues in a few weeks, no doubt. But it's all about when we prioritize those things. Do we fix those smaller issues before other more serious bugs? And how do we roll those changes out to both Windows / Mac (if needed)? And so on. Which leads us to... You're right. Prioritization at the top level is focused on revenue. Some of that is through focus on third party deals.
But the core strategy is: improving the engine and improving creator. First priority is improving the engine both performance-wise and feature-wise. Creator improvements are important to us, but they're currently taking a back seat to the engine improvements. Oh, we understand. I promise we do. I'd like to take one moment and let you look up our skirt on developer resources:
On the engine / tools side, we have four full time programmers. Two of them have experience with Creator and the other two are more engine-focused. I also code as I find the time to do so. But I'm not dedicated to coding full time.
These four programmers have to deal with Mac Creator, Windows Creator, Lua engine, HTML5 engine, Android platform, iOS platform and Tizen platform (and more). We're balancing stuff pretty well from where I'm sitting.
Now, as of today, we have one programmer working on multiplayer. Another is reworking our build processes and laying the groundwork for future engine improvements. Another is focused on the HTML5 engine. And the last one is picking up various and sundry tasks (like iOS 7, bug fixes, stretch to fit, managing nightly builds). I'm doing Amazon SDK integration and helping out on the HTML5 engine optimization.
@BlackCloakGS is the floating engineer. And he's chomping at the bit to do Creator improvements. Heck, he drove the information gathering process to find out what everyone wants to see. He just poked his head in my office to ask what I think about all of this. I told him, get on those improvements when you can. Alas, he's busy right now with some project obfuscation tasks, iOS 7 compatibility and some other sundry stuff. He's hearing you though and will likely bang some stuff out soon. I almost took offense at the "slipping back into its old ways" comment. But I'm good now.
Rest assured that we're hearing you and will get to those low-hanging-fruit improvements as soon as we can.
Excellent post.
My GameSalad Academy Courses! ◦ Check out my quality templates! ◦ Add me on Skype: braydon_sfx
Keep leading the charge @CodeWizard and @BlackCloakGS! For SPARTAAAAA!!!!
Special shout out to @RhiannonSalad as well for being one of those who listens and is willing to dive right in to get things straightened out!
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iOS 7 is considered to be still in beta. Only iOS developers have access. Once its released to the public. Is it still considered in Beta?
What goals have to be met for the Creator to be 1.0?
-You already have a customer base who is making yearly pro membership purchases for your tool.
-You already have multiple 3rd party providers assisting in new features. and you are currently working on more 3rd party assisted features.
At this rate..... your gonna be 0.10.... wait.. isnt 0.10 actually 1.0. "Scratches head"
Im seriously confused as to what "Beta Testing" means in regard to the GS Creator?
I understand we should always strive to improve upon a idea or creation. But when is Beta ..no longer beta?
I am not trolling... I am not complaining..... I just remember seeing the 0 in the 0.10.3
And for those who choose to be smug... Ill jump ahead of you and say " when they say so..."
So I ask again.... when is beta.. no longer beta?
As for features - engine improvements are still number one for me. Faster load times and better performance (particularly now we're all having to develop for retina devices) is a must.
Are there any plans to fix the frame rates in the animate behaviour ?
Yeah, that bug is in my queue. Haven't fixed it yet though...
Cheers for the reply.