Personally I hope the prices don't change. I think the prices are more than fair. If you want to pay for Unity or Torque go ahead. No one is stopping you. Spend months/years to learn & develop with those tools. All the power to ya. Me, I think I'll go with GS. That's what's so great about a free country/world. Your able to choose what YOU want.
I feel like the price point if perfect, it will keep a lot of crap stuff from entering the app store (hopefully). Don't wanna be a serious iPhone developer? Don't pay, just make web games.
Either way, like I said, everyone is free to choose whichever path they wish. I'll go the easy route. It'll pay dividends in the long run. The fact that I can make a very well polished game every month with GS, or maybe 1-3 a year with Unity/Torque, is the deciding factor. You will make a lot more $$$ by producing more & without pulling your hair out with the aspects of coding.
We are very interested in featuring iPhone games made with GameSalad on our front page. If anyone is at the point where their iPhone game has a description and a good screenshot, let me know!
"We will be adding more pro features as time goes by."
To chime in here... (waving hand politely)
I think the price is acceptable. However, let me be the first to request : plead : prey : beg, do not go down the direction that Unity did with their Standard/Pro version. I was using Unity on DAY ONE, however as things continued to grow... all the new toys/features/requests were applied to the Pro version - leaving the standard to be subpar at best. I know its a marketing incentive to make you upgrade, however do not forget your standard players as well.
Here is hopping for more "standard" features as well....
Hi Xacto, we definitely hear you on this. The distinction we have between the two memberships goes along the line of what is necessary for making games. The features we are implementing into the Pro membership are typically features that businesses and professional developers are most interested in: branding, custom network connectivity, support for different frameworks, etc. Features that relate to the actual development of games: behaviors, device I/O, etc, will be shared across both levels.
Honesty, I love Gamesalad as a tool but needing to pay $2000 just to remove the splash screen from the games we create in quite annoying. I would definately buy the pro version if it was 1000. Then, it would be well worth money to have the satisfaction of creating my own iphone game.
I think that $500 for a basic license is a great deal. If you have been following GameSalad since the beginning, it has taken more than a year for them to get to the point of iPhone deployment, and all of us users have been making games / learning the app for free for more than a year! I am more than happy to pay them for their efforts to make iPhone application development a reality for me, a user with great creative potential, but not enough xCode experience. Thanks GameSalad.
Users of GameSalad, remember that they would be more than able to take a cut from each of your AppStore sales, and they do not. Instead there is a fixed rate. This price point also discourages any user from uploading poor content to the AppStore. Lets keep the AppStore as clean as possible, its already junked up enough!
Use the SDK to make a phenomenal game, and that $500 invested will be a distant memory.
As far as paying $2000 to remove the splash screen from my games... ugh.
I've made some games for the IPhone (seven), and I started looking at GameSalad as a way to make high quality IPhone apps. I really like GameSalad and hope they can get it working with the IPhone. Yes I know it works with the IPhone if you're making some very simple games. I've also read in the forums how people are having lots of problems with performance. Yes I know it's in beta, but most companies don't make you pay to test their products for them (I'm talking about the IPhone and the Early Release Program).
I'm not trying to cut on the product. In one week I learned it, and made the first level of the next game that I want to put on the IPhone. It was awesome. I could finish the standard screens and the next nine levels in one more week. I could complete the entire game in two weeks. If I only want my game to run on a PC that would be great. I need it to run on the IPhone and run well. My game spawns 30 to 40 sprites that are active at the same time. It would also be nice to have a high score server to interface with (Yes I know, it's in the works).
If GameSalad could actually get the game to be exported in xcode to be compiled then I would think it could work with the IPhone without performance problems. I'm pretty sure that is not how it's going to work since GameSalad is waiting for the emulator/shell whatever it's call to be approved by Apple. So for now I'm going to use another third party software to do my game in. No it's not as nice or time saving as GamaSalad, but it's free and you need to know xcode and I know it will work on the IPhone with out any performance issues at twice the fps.
Yes it's 500 for the Indie membership, but when you're having problems and need help or would like one of the pro features (Which I've not seen) then it's 1500 more. I've made enough money with my other IPhone apps to cover the cost of the GamaSalad membership, but I would say that 90% of the apps on the IPhone DO NOT make 2000 a year profit. The average Iphone developer makes less then ten dollars an hour. I think the pricing is based on the IPhone hype not reality. See this link http://www.stromcode.com/2009/05/24/the-incredible-app-store-hype/
I'm going to check on GamaSalad from time to time, and if they get everything working and get the pricing right then I will be jumping on board.
After I made my last post I read what some of the Pro features maybe. So now if you want to make a game that will actually sale you need to pay 2000. These are the features that people want in the game. You can't tell me you started GameSalad to help people make games for free, since you're targeting, and I quote "businesses and professional developers".
You should not encourage people to buy a membership on the premiss that one good game will cover your cost of the membership. I would like to point out again that most IPhone developers DO NOT make 2000 a year profit on their games.
As a current Torque 2D for iPhone user (previously known as iTorque or iTGB), I can understand the $499 price tag for the indie version, but I find it hard to swallow continuing to pay the same amount every year. I would highly recommend that you reconsider a subscription renewal of no more than half that amount ($249) or $199, twice the price of the iPhone Developer license.
Considering that the initial application is already written, the initial $499 price tag would solidify the commitment of a new GameSalad developer, and a continuing $249 annual subscription (for example) would give you the ability to maintain and evolve the game engine code, keep the forums active and prospering, and keep your current user base happy and growing.
I would even go so far as to offer the idea of an incentive of users longer than X number of years, or after X number of App Store releases to automatically upgrade to the Elite version, provided they maintain the higher subscription price of $999 (again, for example).
I also hope that if you do modify any pricing, if it's not already implemented, that you are able to give Indie users the ability to pay just the difference in price to go Elite.
With the growing number of applications in the App Store, and the competition getting more fierce each day, a developer would have to remain steadfast in constantly creating new games and/or creating a sustainable profit with their current releases.
I fear that the App Store could come to point where everyone would be competing for attention with $0.99 sales, or larger entities would eventually either weed out or consume the indie developers, and I fear that situation could come sooner than most people want to believe.
I completely understand that this is Gendai Games's initial foray into the iPhone platform, and I suspect it will make a huge splash if quality titles do come out because of it, but continuing development of the game engine must mutually coincide with the people who will want to (and can afford to) stay by your side.
I watched your company with great anticipation from its first press release and video until now, and I'm very impressed and proud of your accomplishments thus far. Unfortunately, from a business standpoint, I couldn't wait for GameSalad and went with the Torque engine so that I could release my first game (Archangel: Fate of the Galactic Commonwealth - http://tinyurl.com/archget and http://tinyurl.com/archvideo) before the end of summer 2009 (to coincide with JJ Abrams' Star Trek movie release). I can tell you, it was no picnic developing this game, and the issues I faced with the Torque engine were exhaustive.
Since then, I have made much mention of your product on the Torque forum (see http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/100997), and there are plenty indie users on the fence who I am speaking to who want to create good games without either the hassle of extensive R&D, or the hassle of extensive licensing and pricing that could end up way out of their league.
Keep in mind that the trend of all the recent games released have responded to the demand to include the ability to connect online either via Facebook Connect or Twitter or a personal server to publish high scores and accomplishments. Placing these features only in the "Pro" or "Elite" (please make the distinction clear) version will make Indie-made games less appealing and therefore less profitable, and giving the Indie developer less chance of ever going "Pro" or "Elite."
In all honesty, I am leaning on the idea of purchasing an Indie license of GameSalad as soon as I can afford it, but I implore you to examine this pricing and its long-term effects for both your company, your flagship product, and the user base that currently wants to support you.
Right now, at version 0.5.0, many of our members are telling us that GameSalad's quick and easy game creation experience far outweighs a missing feature or two. But here's the deal -- we're not satisfied yet! We're continually working to add more features while retaining that ease of use. Imagine a more robust feature set AND all the benefits of code-free game creation, made even better...
If specific information seems a bit slow in coming, it's because we're taking the time to do things right and don't want to make any premature announcements.
This will be my last post on this subject and then I will move on. I think GameSalad is making a big mistake by offering developers a $ 500 option that will NOT allow them to create games that people want. By displaying an annoying splash screen and not having the features (Pro Version) will kill your app store sales. GameSalad is hoping that this will make the game developers move up to the $2000 annual membership. What I think will happen at this point is that you will lose 70-80% of your developers. Then the 20-30% that goes ahead with the $2000 membership will drop to 10% when they can’t make enough money to cover the annual membership.
Why not make the product affordable for everyone and build your developer base. Raise the price of the product after it matures and you add more features. Allow the developer the ability to test their games on a local device for debugging and tweaking for FREE. Then charge them for the ability to publish the game. This model has worked rather well for Apple. For a $100 you can make as many games as you like and test them on any device. Then when you publish the game they get %30 of your sales.
Why not charge a $100 membership to use the software, and to test on local devices. Then have another membership that allows the developer the ability to publish to the app store. This allows developer a chance to see truly how well their game works with you software on a real device. Don’t make the second membership $2000 annual (remember 90% of IPhone developers DO NOT make a $2000 year profit on their games)
Don’t lose your developer base up front for a quick profit. Build your developer base and make a profits long term. Marketing and pricing has killed a lot of great products.
Yeah, $500/2000 a year is insane. A one time price yes but 500/2000 A YEAR? Forget it. It's antics like this that makes me want to forget the whole game thing. Thanks.
"I think GameSalad is making a big mistake by offering developers a $ 500 option that will NOT allow them to create games that people want. By displaying an annoying splash screen and not having the features (Pro Version) will kill your app store sales. "
I've mentioned this earlier in this very thread, but I'll reiterate. The difference between the Indie and Pro has nothing to do with your ability to make a great game. Rather the difference is in features that studios and professionals need: branding, custom network connectivity (read: custom), support for different frameworks, etc.
As far as the splash screen, this is standard practice with game engines. Also, it's not a splash screen. It's a load image that every single app requires. Whether the user sees the GameSalad image or your own, it's there only as long as it takes the game to load - we do not force it to stay any longer.
------------
"Why not make the product affordable for everyone and build your developer base. Raise the price of the product after it matures and you add more features."
As we've also said, this is the EARLY Access Program. We hope to introduce other options to users in the future, when we are able to. If we waited until all the options were available, then no one would be able to publish to iPhone right now. If these prices are unacceptable, then please wait until we can expand on our products.
------------
"Allow the developer the ability to test their games on a local device for debugging and tweaking for FREE.Then charge them for the ability to publish the game. This model has worked rather well for Apple. For a $100 you can make as many games as you like and test them on any device. Then when you publish the game they get %30 of your sales. Why not charge a $100 membership to use the software, and to test on local devices."
We have a very robust free service already that we think is very fair - GameSalad Creator is 100% free to everyone and will continue to be. Also, once the Viewer becomes available on the App Store, you will be able to test as many games as you want for less that $100.
------------
"remember 90% of IPhone developers DO NOT make a $2000 year profit on their games"
Again, the Pro Membership is intended for those that do this for a living. You have to keep in mind that with GameSalad, the rules are changing a bit. Previously, developers could not make a profit because the cost of developing and time required ate it all away. With GameSalad, you can make many more games in the same time for less money. Unless you're in that category, we strongly encourage everyone to consider the Indie membership.
@eboy: You've been posting nothing but negativity for the past 6 days. We've responded to all your complaints and suggested you wait while we can address your price concerns. If this is unacceptable, then you are free not to use our service.
This is your first and last warning: we will not tolerate trolling on these boards.
Well said superNES on ALL points. I used to be very active on these boards, but lately there has been nothing but negativity. I think this topic has been beaten to dust already. Think it's time to close it. If you don't wanna pay, don't pay, stop whining about it. Go learn Unity or Torque and spend months creating your game. I wish you the best of luck, hopefully you are very successful. If you can't understand the value of being able to create a polished game every month vs every every couple months, so be it. But don't create an atmosphere of negativity for everyone else. It's getting really old.
Comments
I feel like the price point if perfect, it will keep a lot of crap stuff from entering the app store (hopefully). Don't wanna be a serious iPhone developer? Don't pay, just make web games.
Either way, like I said, everyone is free to choose whichever path they wish. I'll go the easy route. It'll pay dividends in the long run. The fact that I can make a very well polished game every month with GS, or maybe 1-3 a year with Unity/Torque, is the deciding factor. You will make a lot more $$$ by producing more & without pulling your hair out with the aspects of coding.
To each his own.
http://gamesalad.com/wiki/whats_new_in_gamesalad_0.5.0
We will be adding more pro features as time goes by.
As a note, will there be a page on the site here where all App Store available games created with GS will be listed?
I hope those they do make it on to the App Store share sales figures and the like - can only help Gamesalad's cause at the end of the day.
Good luck to everyone, I mean that.
To chime in here... (waving hand politely)
I think the price is acceptable. However, let me be the first to request : plead : prey : beg, do not go down the direction that Unity did with their Standard/Pro version. I was using Unity on DAY ONE, however as things continued to grow... all the new toys/features/requests were applied to the Pro version - leaving the standard to be subpar at best. I know its a marketing incentive to make you upgrade, however do not forget your standard players as well.
Here is hopping for more "standard" features as well....
Xacto
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StarFire
http://gamesalad.com/game/play/8901
superNes, just finished mine. descripts, screens and all. feel free.
noodles...
'Nice' features, such as a web link, I can live without. But don't go putting high scores and saving into the pro category!
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Users of GameSalad, remember that they would be more than able to take a cut from each of your AppStore sales, and they do not. Instead there is a fixed rate. This price point also discourages any user from uploading poor content to the AppStore. Lets keep the AppStore as clean as possible, its already junked up enough!
Use the SDK to make a phenomenal game, and that $500 invested will be a distant memory.
As far as paying $2000 to remove the splash screen from my games... ugh.
I'm not trying to cut on the product. In one week I learned it, and made the first level of the next game that I want to put on the IPhone. It was awesome. I could finish the standard screens and the next nine levels in one more week. I could complete the entire game in two weeks. If I only want my game to run on a PC that would be great. I need it to run on the IPhone and run well. My game spawns 30 to 40 sprites that are active at the same time. It would also be nice to have a high score server to interface with (Yes I know, it's in the works).
If GameSalad could actually get the game to be exported in xcode to be compiled then I would think it could work with the IPhone without performance problems. I'm pretty sure that is not how it's going to work since GameSalad is waiting for the emulator/shell whatever it's call to be approved by Apple. So for now I'm going to use another third party software to do my game in. No it's not as nice or time saving as GamaSalad, but it's free and you need to know xcode and I know it will work on the IPhone with out any performance issues at twice the fps.
Yes it's 500 for the Indie membership, but when you're having problems and need help or would like one of the pro features (Which I've not seen) then it's 1500 more. I've made enough money with my other IPhone apps to cover the cost of the GamaSalad membership, but I would say that 90% of the apps on the IPhone DO NOT make 2000 a year profit. The average Iphone developer makes less then ten dollars an hour. I think the pricing is based on the IPhone hype not reality. See this link http://www.stromcode.com/2009/05/24/the-incredible-app-store-hype/
I'm going to check on GamaSalad from time to time, and if they get everything working and get the pricing right then I will be jumping on board.
You should not encourage people to buy a membership on the premiss that one good game will cover your cost of the membership. I would like to point out again that most IPhone developers DO NOT make 2000 a year profit on their games.
Considering that the initial application is already written, the initial $499 price tag would solidify the commitment of a new GameSalad developer, and a continuing $249 annual subscription (for example) would give you the ability to maintain and evolve the game engine code, keep the forums active and prospering, and keep your current user base happy and growing.
I would even go so far as to offer the idea of an incentive of users longer than X number of years, or after X number of App Store releases to automatically upgrade to the Elite version, provided they maintain the higher subscription price of $999 (again, for example).
I also hope that if you do modify any pricing, if it's not already implemented, that you are able to give Indie users the ability to pay just the difference in price to go Elite.
With the growing number of applications in the App Store, and the competition getting more fierce each day, a developer would have to remain steadfast in constantly creating new games and/or creating a sustainable profit with their current releases.
I fear that the App Store could come to point where everyone would be competing for attention with $0.99 sales, or larger entities would eventually either weed out or consume the indie developers, and I fear that situation could come sooner than most people want to believe.
I completely understand that this is Gendai Games's initial foray into the iPhone platform, and I suspect it will make a huge splash if quality titles do come out because of it, but continuing development of the game engine must mutually coincide with the people who will want to (and can afford to) stay by your side.
I watched your company with great anticipation from its first press release and video until now, and I'm very impressed and proud of your accomplishments thus far. Unfortunately, from a business standpoint, I couldn't wait for GameSalad and went with the Torque engine so that I could release my first game (Archangel: Fate of the Galactic Commonwealth - http://tinyurl.com/archget and http://tinyurl.com/archvideo) before the end of summer 2009 (to coincide with JJ Abrams' Star Trek movie release). I can tell you, it was no picnic developing this game, and the issues I faced with the Torque engine were exhaustive.
Since then, I have made much mention of your product on the Torque forum (see http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/100997), and there are plenty indie users on the fence who I am speaking to who want to create good games without either the hassle of extensive R&D, or the hassle of extensive licensing and pricing that could end up way out of their league.
Keep in mind that the trend of all the recent games released have responded to the demand to include the ability to connect online either via Facebook Connect or Twitter or a personal server to publish high scores and accomplishments. Placing these features only in the "Pro" or "Elite" (please make the distinction clear) version will make Indie-made games less appealing and therefore less profitable, and giving the Indie developer less chance of ever going "Pro" or "Elite."
In all honesty, I am leaning on the idea of purchasing an Indie license of GameSalad as soon as I can afford it, but I implore you to examine this pricing and its long-term effects for both your company, your flagship product, and the user base that currently wants to support you.
Reasonable, good points, well written - I hope you stick around!
Cheers,
QS =D
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
If specific information seems a bit slow in coming, it's because we're taking the time to do things right and don't want to make any premature announcements.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback.
I think GameSalad is making a big mistake by offering developers a $ 500 option that will NOT allow them to create games that people want. By displaying an annoying splash screen and not having the features (Pro Version) will kill your app store sales. GameSalad is hoping that this will make the game developers move up to the $2000 annual membership. What I think will happen at this point is that you will lose 70-80% of your developers. Then the 20-30% that goes ahead with the $2000 membership will drop to 10% when they can’t make enough money to cover the annual membership.
Why not make the product affordable for everyone and build your developer base. Raise the price of the product after it matures and you add more features. Allow the developer the ability to test their games on a local device for debugging and tweaking for FREE. Then charge them for the ability to publish the game. This model has worked rather well for Apple. For a $100 you can make as many games as you like and test them on any device. Then when you publish the game they get %30 of your sales.
Why not charge a $100 membership to use the software, and to test on local devices. Then have another membership that allows the developer the ability to publish to the app store. This allows developer a chance to see truly how well their game works with you software on a real device. Don’t make the second membership $2000 annual (remember 90% of IPhone developers DO NOT make a $2000 year profit on their games)
Don’t lose your developer base up front for a quick profit. Build your developer base and make a profits long term. Marketing and pricing has killed a lot of great products.
"I think GameSalad is making a big mistake by offering developers a $ 500 option that will NOT allow them to create games that people want. By displaying an annoying splash screen and not having the features (Pro Version) will kill your app store sales. "
I've mentioned this earlier in this very thread, but I'll reiterate. The difference between the Indie and Pro has nothing to do with your ability to make a great game. Rather the difference is in features that studios and professionals need: branding, custom network connectivity (read: custom), support for different frameworks, etc.
As far as the splash screen, this is standard practice with game engines. Also, it's not a splash screen. It's a load image that every single app requires. Whether the user sees the GameSalad image or your own, it's there only as long as it takes the game to load - we do not force it to stay any longer.
------------
"Why not make the product affordable for everyone and build your developer base. Raise the price of the product after it matures and you add more features."
As we've also said, this is the EARLY Access Program. We hope to introduce other options to users in the future, when we are able to. If we waited until all the options were available, then no one would be able to publish to iPhone right now. If these prices are unacceptable, then please wait until we can expand on our products.
------------
"Allow the developer the ability to test their games on a local device for debugging and tweaking for FREE.Then charge them for the ability to publish the game. This model has worked rather well for Apple. For a $100 you can make as many games as you like and test them on any device. Then when you publish the game they get %30 of your sales. Why not charge a $100 membership to use the software, and to test on local devices."
We have a very robust free service already that we think is very fair - GameSalad Creator is 100% free to everyone and will continue to be. Also, once the Viewer becomes available on the App Store, you will be able to test as many games as you want for less that $100.
------------
"remember 90% of IPhone developers DO NOT make a $2000 year profit on their games"
Again, the Pro Membership is intended for those that do this for a living. You have to keep in mind that with GameSalad, the rules are changing a bit. Previously, developers could not make a profit because the cost of developing and time required ate it all away. With GameSalad, you can make many more games in the same time for less money. Unless you're in that category, we strongly encourage everyone to consider the Indie membership.
This is your first and last warning: we will not tolerate trolling on these boards.