Was anything discussed during the 'meet up' regarding the resolution questions ? Specifically the question of what 3x 2x and 1x refer to (in pixel values) ? Obviously just knowing what 3x refers to (3072 ? 2048 ? 2208 ?) would be useful at this stage.
It appears that any image that only contains black and white data with transparency gets converted incorrectly during publishing for iOS (ie when converted to 2x,3x,etc). As soon as I add just one pixel of color it has no issues. These are not being exported as black and white but full RGBA.
@Socks said:
Was anything discussed during the 'meet up' regarding the resolution questions ? Specifically the question of what 3x 2x and 1x refer to (in pixel values) ? Obviously just knowing what 3x refers to (3072 ? 2048 ? 2208 ?) would be useful at this stage.
Didn't really give us an exact number just a vague " make your images about 50% bigger of what you want them to be". Then when asked to clarify, it was said to build for iPad retina with RI ticked and we'll be fine.
@raycur09 said:
Didn't really give us an exact number just a vague " make your images about 50% bigger of what you want them to be". Then when asked to clarify, it was said to build for iPad retina with RI ticked and we'll be fine.
Thanks for the reply, information seems so thin on the ground with regard to this, all the stuff I've read so far points to a Retina build (2048 = 3x) being problematic when it comes to everything except for Retina iPads running iOS8 and iPhone6/6+.
In my opinion you are overthinking the whole image resolution issue.
Given is the fact, that the ONLY device, that we have a predictable scaling factor for, is the iPAD Retina, and only when running iOS 8. Here the images should be x3 their actor size, for backgrounds x3 of the project screen size (which is currently impossible in GS and even if it was would be total overkill).
To me the above is the prefered universal starting point.
Even if you were to target the iPhone6+ specifically, the weird secondary downscaling it does, will even make images done at precisely x3 look slightly, but imperceivable smudged.
On all other lower resolution devices the rendered image undergoes so much scaling (first when creating the x2 and x1 images, secondly to fit to overscan or stretch), that it is impossible to get pixel perfect rendering.
On the bright side, starting with ANY image that is reasonably larger (x1.5 to x3), produces equally acceptable visual results.
Remember that the whole x3/x2/x1 is not aimed at ensuring sharp images on lower/older devices, but for reasons of memory limits and loading times.
@Hopscotch said:
In my opinion you are overthinking the whole image resolution issue.
I'd say the complete opposite, there appears to be some very real issues to be resolved, asking for clarity isn't really overthinking the issue.
@Hopscotch said:
Given is the fact, that the ONLY device, that we have a predictable scaling factor for, is the iPAD Retina, and only when running iOS 8.
Agreed (I think ! ) Let's assume that as a starting point at least.
@Hopscotch said:
Here the images should be x3 their actor size . . .
So . . . . in Creator's 1024 x 768 iPad project working size, a background image should be 3072 x 2304 pixels ?
If that is the case (and of course you may well be right), then Retina iPads running iOS8 will get a 2048 x 1536 pixel image that has been downscaled from 3072 x 2304 pixels, so although we will arrive at the right size (1:1 pixels), the image will likely suffer from some level of blurring/smearing - unless the developer is at pains to make their pixel level work divisible by 3 - so for example a 4 pixel wide line will become a 2.666 pixel wide line (blurred/smeared) when displayed on the very device you are designing your project for.
@Hopscotch said:
. . . for backgrounds x3 of the project screen size (which is currently impossible in GS and even if it was would be total overkill).
Not 100% what that means or why it would be impossible ? There is nothing stopping us making our background image 3072 x 2304 pixels if we want ? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying here.
@Hopscotch said:
Even if you were to target the iPhone6+ specifically, the weird secondary downscaling it does, will even make images done at precisely x3 look slightly, but imperceivable smudged.
Agreed, the 2208 to 1920 thing will add its own slight aliasing/blurring, but given the screen size I'd say this is going to be, like you say, imperceivable, I've done a couple of tests and from what I can tell it won't be an issue.
@Hopscotch said:
On all other lower resolution devices the rendered image undergoes so much scaling (first when creating the x2 and x1 images, secondly to fit to overscan or stretch), that it is impossible to get pixel perfect rendering.
But that was never true in the past, for example in the past a 2048 pixel image divided evenly to a 1024 image, that's all gone now from what I can tell, along with it the ability to predictably get clean lines and sharp edges.
@Hopscotch said:
On the bright side, starting with ANY image that is reasonably larger (x1.5 to x3), produces equally acceptable visual results.
I suppose there is some subjectivity here as to what is an acceptable result, from what I can see there is no device that won't have its image quality compromised to some degree under this new system . . . although working on a Retina iPad project @ 2048 x 1536 should give you a 2048 x 1536 result (for Retina iPads) under iOS8, but even here this means Retina iPads running iOS7 and earlier will now be downgraded to 1365.3 x 1024 - and it's still not clear what lesser devices will get.
@Hopscotch said:
Remember that the whole x3/x2/x1 is not aimed at ensuring sharp images on lower/older devices, but for reasons of memory limits and loading times.
Well it seems like it will not ensure sharp images on any device, not just lesser models.
Still confused, I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears and work at 2048 x 1536 (which is only 2x the actor's size - rather than your recommendation of 3x) for Retina iPad until GameSalad reveal some more details.
@AlchimiaStudios yeah I've been finding this a lot contacted support, I hope that its sorted soon as adding a pixel of colour to a load of images is a tad annoying .
My understanding is you don't make your images 3x iPad. The only 3x (Really 2.3x) device is iPhone 6 Plus at a screen size of 960 x 540 2.3x images are 2208 x 1242. If you make your images for retina devices the same way you do now i.e. iPad 2048 x 2048 they will actually be larger than the size required by iPhone 6 Plus.
GS will take these images and name them myimage@3x.png and they will be the images used on all devices unless you check RI. If you check RI it will use @3x on iPad retina devices and iPhone 6 Plus. It will down scale the images to 2/3 the size and rename them @2x for iPhone 4 to iPhone 6 and iPad non-retina. It will then down scale to 1/3 the size for older devices iPhone 3 or lower. If you don't check RI it will use the images you provide on everything.
I have no clue what happens on non iOS platforms. I am hoping we can get our hands on the new RC today and checkout the new system.
@jamies15-3 said:
AlchimiaStudios yeah I've been finding this a lot contacted support, I hope that its sorted soon as adding a pixel of colour to a load of images is a tad annoying .
For sure, hopefully it will be resolved in the next couple RC's
@Socks said:
I suppose there is some subjectivity here as to what is an acceptable result, from what I can see there is no device that won't have its image quality compromised to some degree under this new system
Yep, except if your universal project was started as iPad RT and use 3x images - then it will be as good as it gets on the iPad RT HD devices. Everything else will have some degradation.
If you start with an iPhone 6+ project, then ALL devices will have some degradation as even the iPhone 6+ natively does its funny scaling.
@Socks said:
. . . although working on a Retina iPad project @ 2048 x 1536 should give you a 2048 x 1536 result (for Retina iPads) under iOS8,
No, iPad RT on iOS8 would be 3072 x 2304.
GS does not support this yet, the iPad RT project should support 3x resolution, thus making actors 1/3 of the imported image resolution.
@Socks said:
but even here this means Retina iPads running iOS7 and earlier will now be downgraded to 1365.3 x 1024 - and it's still not clear what lesser devices will get.
No, on iOS7 the iPad RT will use the 2x images, @ 2048 x 1536
Interesting, although they simply could be IPhone6+ assets, their resolution existing to help the maths of scaling to 1920 x 1080 rather than to add any more pixel density ? But who knows, we can't even get GS to reveal what 3x means in their own resolution architecture so all this stuff is a lot of guessing and no solid information. I'd love to see the rumoured 12.9" iPad Pro announced on the 18th, but that'd require 4x assets to remain 'Retina' . . . so hmmmmm . . . . ?
@Socks said:
Interesting, although they simply could be IPhone6+ assets, their resolution existing to help the maths of scaling to 1920 x 1080 rather than to add any more pixel density ? But who knows, we can't even get GS to reveal what 3x means in their own resolution architecture so all this stuff is a lot of guessing and no solid information. I'd love to see the rumoured 12.9" iPad Pro announced on the 18th, but that'd require 4x assets to remain 'Retina' . . . so hmmmmm . . . . ?
In the Meet-up it was said by the GS staff that they will be raising the max image sizes GS creator allows. Not sure if it ties in to all of this, but figured id say it.
@BlackCloakGS, if I remember correctly, it was mentioned in the live meetup that you are currently still looking at two problems on iOS, blank launch screens and the iPhone6+ reporting a wrong screen resolution?
If it helps, I know from native projects, that if you use static launch images and no launch screen is supplied in the correct resolution for the iPhone (2208 x 1242), then the app gets run in "device compatibility" mode. Essentially this will render the app in iPhone 5 resolution, thus reporting wrong screen dimensions.
@raycur09 said:
In the Meet-up it was said by the GS staff that they will be raising the max image sizes GS creator allows. Not sure if it ties in to all of this, but figured id say it.
Rumours of rumours, wheels within wheels . . . my own suggestion would be that technical information from now on should be revealed in the small hours of the morning (for most of those outside the US) through a format notorious for low attendance figures and couched in as vague terms as possible without the language descending into indistinct tones, there simply is no better way of disseminating information, lol, the only alternative I can think of that might be better would be to have a single copy of the most current Creator release notes carved into solid granite in ancient aramaic by monks who've taken a vow of silence, then loaded onto a ship, sailed to the deepest part of the ocean and thrown overboard, the prompt to 'See the release notes here' pointing you to nautical maps.
Was the resolution of this new maximum size revealed ?
@raycur09 said:
If i remember correctly was something along the lines of " a bit" and "some".
It you add 'a bit' to 'some', then multiply it by 'about' and make it 'bigger' - and I have my calculations right - we should be looking at a resolution of 2256 x 48 ppi ?
Which to me points to the long rumoured Retina iPencil.
@raycur09 said:
I think the session was recorded, ill have to look for it.
Grab a download fast before the information is redacted, it could fall into the hands of GameSalad users
Comments
If you guys are at the GameSalad meet up tonight we can go over any of the resolution question you might have.
...
Any chance for 12.7 tonight? or slated for another night @BlackCloakGS
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If not tonight the next night very close to releasing 0.12.7 RC
Was anything discussed during the 'meet up' regarding the resolution questions ? Specifically the question of what 3x 2x and 1x refer to (in pixel values) ? Obviously just knowing what 3x refers to (3072 ? 2048 ? 2208 ?) would be useful at this stage.
So i've found some more information out about the white box or misrendering images bug http://bugs.gamesalad.com/show_bug.cgi?id=352
It appears that any image that only contains black and white data with transparency gets converted incorrectly during publishing for iOS (ie when converted to 2x,3x,etc). As soon as I add just one pixel of color it has no issues. These are not being exported as black and white but full RGBA.
Follow us: Twitter - Website
Didn't really give us an exact number just a vague " make your images about 50% bigger of what you want them to be". Then when asked to clarify, it was said to build for iPad retina with RI ticked and we'll be fine.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
Thanks for the reply, information seems so thin on the ground with regard to this, all the stuff I've read so far points to a Retina build (2048 = 3x) being problematic when it comes to everything except for Retina iPads running iOS8 and iPhone6/6+.
In my opinion you are overthinking the whole image resolution issue.
Given is the fact, that the ONLY device, that we have a predictable scaling factor for, is the iPAD Retina, and only when running iOS 8. Here the images should be x3 their actor size, for backgrounds x3 of the project screen size (which is currently impossible in GS and even if it was would be total overkill).
To me the above is the prefered universal starting point.
Even if you were to target the iPhone6+ specifically, the weird secondary downscaling it does, will even make images done at precisely x3 look slightly, but imperceivable smudged.
On all other lower resolution devices the rendered image undergoes so much scaling (first when creating the x2 and x1 images, secondly to fit to overscan or stretch), that it is impossible to get pixel perfect rendering.
On the bright side, starting with ANY image that is reasonably larger (x1.5 to x3), produces equally acceptable visual results.
Remember that the whole x3/x2/x1 is not aimed at ensuring sharp images on lower/older devices, but for reasons of memory limits and loading times.
MESSAGING, X-PLATFORM LEADERBOARDS, OFFLINE-TIMER, ANALYTICS and BACK-END CONTROL for your GameSalad projects
www.APPFORMATIVE.com
I'd say the complete opposite, there appears to be some very real issues to be resolved, asking for clarity isn't really overthinking the issue.
Agreed (I think !
) Let's assume that as a starting point at least.
So . . . . in Creator's 1024 x 768 iPad project working size, a background image should be 3072 x 2304 pixels ?
If that is the case (and of course you may well be right), then Retina iPads running iOS8 will get a 2048 x 1536 pixel image that has been downscaled from 3072 x 2304 pixels, so although we will arrive at the right size (1:1 pixels), the image will likely suffer from some level of blurring/smearing - unless the developer is at pains to make their pixel level work divisible by 3 - so for example a 4 pixel wide line will become a 2.666 pixel wide line (blurred/smeared) when displayed on the very device you are designing your project for.
Not 100% what that means or why it would be impossible ? There is nothing stopping us making our background image 3072 x 2304 pixels if we want ? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying here.
Agreed, the 2208 to 1920 thing will add its own slight aliasing/blurring, but given the screen size I'd say this is going to be, like you say, imperceivable, I've done a couple of tests and from what I can tell it won't be an issue.
But that was never true in the past, for example in the past a 2048 pixel image divided evenly to a 1024 image, that's all gone now from what I can tell, along with it the ability to predictably get clean lines and sharp edges.
I suppose there is some subjectivity here as to what is an acceptable result, from what I can see there is no device that won't have its image quality compromised to some degree under this new system . . . although working on a Retina iPad project @ 2048 x 1536 should give you a 2048 x 1536 result (for Retina iPads) under iOS8, but even here this means Retina iPads running iOS7 and earlier will now be downgraded to 1365.3 x 1024 - and it's still not clear what lesser devices will get.
Well it seems like it will not ensure sharp images on any device, not just lesser models.
Still confused, I'm going to stick my fingers in my ears and work at 2048 x 1536 (which is only 2x the actor's size - rather than your recommendation of 3x) for Retina iPad until GameSalad reveal some more details.
Cheers for the input !
might get a new resolution Oct 16, lol you never know.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/08/tech/mobile/apple-ipad-event/index.html
Yep, that really wouldn't surprise me, a 3072 x 2304 pixel iPad would be my guess
@AlchimiaStudios yeah I've been finding this a lot contacted support, I hope that its sorted soon as adding a pixel of colour to a load of images is a tad annoying
.
My understanding is you don't make your images 3x iPad. The only 3x (Really 2.3x) device is iPhone 6 Plus at a screen size of 960 x 540 2.3x images are 2208 x 1242. If you make your images for retina devices the same way you do now i.e. iPad 2048 x 2048 they will actually be larger than the size required by iPhone 6 Plus.
GS will take these images and name them myimage@3x.png and they will be the images used on all devices unless you check RI. If you check RI it will use @3x on iPad retina devices and iPhone 6 Plus. It will down scale the images to 2/3 the size and rename them @2x for iPhone 4 to iPhone 6 and iPad non-retina. It will then down scale to 1/3 the size for older devices iPhone 3 or lower. If you don't check RI it will use the images you provide on everything.
I have no clue what happens on non iOS platforms. I am hoping we can get our hands on the new RC today and checkout the new system.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
@Socks The rumoured 5120 x 2880 27" Retina iMac is what I'm hanging out for.
It seems like non-iOS use the maximum size you provided in the project, similar to if no RI was checked. Could be wrong though.
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For sure, hopefully it will be resolved in the next couple RC's
Follow us: Twitter - Website
Cheers for the info, that all makes sense to me.
That would be nice !
http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/10/08/hidden-graphical-assets-in-ios-81-beta-2-hint-at-retina-hd-ipads
Yep, except if your universal project was started as iPad RT and use 3x images - then it will be as good as it gets on the iPad RT HD devices. Everything else will have some degradation.
If you start with an iPhone 6+ project, then ALL devices will have some degradation as even the iPhone 6+ natively does its funny scaling.
No, iPad RT on iOS8 would be 3072 x 2304.
GS does not support this yet, the iPad RT project should support 3x resolution, thus making actors 1/3 of the imported image resolution.
No, on iOS7 the iPad RT will use the 2x images, @ 2048 x 1536
MESSAGING, X-PLATFORM LEADERBOARDS, OFFLINE-TIMER, ANALYTICS and BACK-END CONTROL for your GameSalad projects
www.APPFORMATIVE.com
Interesting, although they simply could be IPhone6+ assets, their resolution existing to help the maths of scaling to 1920 x 1080 rather than to add any more pixel density ? But who knows, we can't even get GS to reveal what 3x means in their own resolution architecture so all this stuff is a lot of guessing and no solid information. I'd love to see the rumoured 12.9" iPad Pro announced on the 18th, but that'd require 4x assets to remain 'Retina' . . . so hmmmmm . . . . ?
In the Meet-up it was said by the GS staff that they will be raising the max image sizes GS creator allows. Not sure if it ties in to all of this, but figured id say it.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
@BlackCloakGS, if I remember correctly, it was mentioned in the live meetup that you are currently still looking at two problems on iOS, blank launch screens and the iPhone6+ reporting a wrong screen resolution?
If it helps, I know from native projects, that if you use static launch images and no launch screen is supplied in the correct resolution for the iPhone (2208 x 1242), then the app gets run in "device compatibility" mode. Essentially this will render the app in iPhone 5 resolution, thus reporting wrong screen dimensions.
MESSAGING, X-PLATFORM LEADERBOARDS, OFFLINE-TIMER, ANALYTICS and BACK-END CONTROL for your GameSalad projects
www.APPFORMATIVE.com
Rumours of rumours, wheels within wheels
. . . my own suggestion would be that technical information from now on should be revealed in the small hours of the morning (for most of those outside the US) through a format notorious for low attendance figures and couched in as vague terms as possible without the language descending into indistinct tones, there simply is no better way of disseminating information, lol, the only alternative I can think of that might be better would be to have a single copy of the most current Creator release notes carved into solid granite in ancient aramaic by monks who've taken a vow of silence, then loaded onto a ship, sailed to the deepest part of the ocean and thrown overboard, the prompt to 'See the release notes here' pointing you to nautical maps. 
Was the resolution of this new maximum size revealed ?
If i remember correctly was something along the lines of " a bit" and "some". I think the session was recorded, ill have to look for it.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
It you add 'a bit' to 'some', then multiply it by 'about' and make it 'bigger' - and I have my calculations right - we should be looking at a resolution of 2256 x 48 ppi ?
Which to me points to the long rumoured Retina iPencil.
Grab a download fast before the information is redacted, it could fall into the hands of GameSalad users
@Socks You crack me up
Made me wake up my lady from all the laughter.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
@Socks -- A specific number was not revealed. We were told to think about what would be a good size, and without further ado: http://bugs.gamesalad.com/show_bug.cgi?id=392
@BlackCloakGS will we be getting the next RC this week?
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template