There are ethics involved, im sure we've all created games that are 'borrowed' ideas. I think its all about boundaries, ask yourself this;
Q. If you made a top game, what would you expect to happen?
A. You see various rip offs of it, with altered names and content. B. You see someone release a game with your games name, content complete copy and even the description the same.
TShirt will tell you himself that he has borrowed ideas but everything he does is his own work (or at least he owns the rights to it), he tries to add his own bits to it as well to adapt it.
Remember, content and branding IS copyrighted, concept IS NOT.
Oh have you heard about Burger King? They've just launched their new burger 'Big Mac'. The concept of selling burgers is fine, however you cant copy the burger and name, they've now changed the name to 'XL Bacon and Cheese'.
okay to prove my assumption wrong why hasn't anyone here called Nintendo to inform them of this "disgusting" display of theft?? if its still on the app store I assume that no one has complained to Nintendo yet. although to prove me wrong I suppose someone will call now Sorry DeadPixel.
I think a few people mentioned that they would. And Butterbean mentioned that the game had 'disappeared' from the App store a couple of days ago. I don't check these statements as I have better things to do with my time. But I'm assuming that actually, someone did call Nintendo, and yes, it's been taken down. I may be wrong.
Player_E said: @QS as for me understanding, I do understand fully that there are copyright laws, but like I just stated if it bothers you THAT much why havn't you called Nintendo yourself to report this?? Instead you feel the need to constantly bash DeadPixel. obviously if it doesnt bother you enough to call Nintendo then why say a word to DeadPixel?
Because, as mentioned above, others already had said they'd contact Nintendo. And rather than involve Nintendo personally, I'd hoped that DeadPixel would see the error of his ways and take it down himself, without having to get authorities involved.
I've not bashed Deadpixel 'constantly'. It's been in just two threads - this one (which was a response to your post) and the one that directly dealt with this issue. I've chosen, personally, to ignore the guy. My responses here are more directed at you than him, and trying to explain to you why I think his position is indefensible.
Player_E said: I'm 19, and I guess I grew up with the ideals of not judging someone no matter what. It is not my place to tell someone what they are doing is wrong and I firmly believe that as long as you are not harming me or my loved ones do as you please.
now I realize that the last statement there opens me up for criticism "why are you telling us bashing pixel is wrong!? we should be able to bash pixel according to your logic!"
I guess i'm saying all this cause after see a few threads and posts just harassing the guy I felt someone needed to stand up for him and give him some kind of defense.
So yes, I am on my soap box right now and yes, I am trying to push my ideals onto people.
Why mention your age? It has nothing to do with this.
I was brought up to treat others as I'd like to be treated myself. I know that not everyone subscribes to this way of thinking, and that's fine. I just try and lead my life that way.
I try not to judge others either. If I don't like something someone does, I usually just ignore it or avoid them. But these are our own opinions of how to live our lives. And opinions are, by their very nature, subjective.
The objective facts here, though, are that a game has been copied exactly and put onto the app store for personal profit. And it's not the first time this guy has done it, despite a close call with a lawyer the first time.
It is an objective fact that Deadpixel could be taken to court. And the objective facts will show that he's in breach of copyright. He could be fined THOUSANDS. That's regardless of your opinion or mine.
Now, you go ahead and preach to me about your principles. And I can preach to you about mine. But objectively, this guy is in the wrong.
And if you still don't get it... well, I can't help you there.
Oh have you heard about Burger King? They've just launched their new burger 'Big Mac'. The concept of selling burgers is fine, however you cant copy the burger and name, they've now changed the name to 'XL Bacon and Cheese'.
Player_E: And I hear that there's a track by your favourite music artist, recorded note for note, with a copycat group including vocalist; they've released it with the same track name but with their band name.
I picked up a book the other day called Harry Potter by an author called J.K.WhoTheHellCares.
Player_E, It's all down to creativity in making something (relatively) original, and knowing that, with copyright laws across most of the globe, no one can copy it without permission; and even if they did, at least have the half-decency to put that the name of the owner of the original concept.
And "just" because its Nintendo doesn't alter the fact that they created and own the copyright to Duck Shoot. It could easily have been owned by a waitress in Alaska. Same thing. (sort of ;-)
as for me understanding, I do understand fully that there are copyright laws, but like I just stated if it bothers you THAT much why havn't you called Nintendo yourself to report this?? Instead you feel the need to constantly bash DeadPixel. obviously if it doesnt bother you enough to call Nintendo then why say a word to DeadPixel?
Because he's bringing disrepute to Gendai, as well as those who use GS - all those that sweat to make something relatively original and interesting to play using their own creativity – and people don't want that, so they try to change his mind, before he gets into trouble (in this case, with Nintendo). It's not a constant bashing of DeadPixel; it's a constant gentle (or forceful) persuasion to stop stealing (yes, stealing) a game, pixel by pixel, word for word, etc,. As QS pointed out, There's no copyright on the genre of games. No one would have any problem if he had, at least, named it Pigeon Shoot for instance, and had pigeons being shot. And spent a couple of hours on the net to find some copyright-free graphics, if he can't do his own. A bit of creative additition to the original concept would have been good as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------- Spiral Gyro Games
Dipshit said: I'm 19, and I guess I grew up with the ideals of not judging someone no matter what. It is not my place to tell someone what they are doing is wrong and I firmly believe that as long as you are not harming me or my loved ones do as you please.
Lol I'm only 20. And those ideals are great, when it comes to social situations, but this is a workplace. Anybody that isn't a pro is automatically associated with GameSalad. And anybody who actually wants their games to succeed get their reputations pissed on because of games and ideologies like these.
He's already had a lawyer come to the forums and post about the legal action that would be taken, most people would get the idea by now. I hope GameSalad will take the steps to ban him. Give him a refund or whatever, but he's hurting your brand, as well.
Player_E said: I will post my reply to all of your later tonight unfortunately im at work at the moment and do not have time to reply.
Are you sure you want to do that? I'm pretty sure everybody here disagrees with you....myself included. By dragging this on you're not helping anything.
Player_E said: I'm 19, and I guess I grew up with the ideals of not judging someone no matter what. It is not my place to tell someone what they are doing is wrong and I firmly believe that as long as you are not harming me or my loved ones do as you please.
Wow, I think this is what is wrong with the world today. Society will fall apart when there is a total disjoint between seeing something that is obviously wrong, and taking action to address that wrong. Nobody is calling Nintendo or Apple because we don't want this guy to really get in trouble, but we are doing something about it by calling this out... because we think it's wrong. Period.
chosenonestudios said: Just to throw this all out there.... If you all really want this thread to stop.....
STOP POSTING!!!
If you don't....
Continue ON!!!!!!
Why should we want to stop, we are having a good discussion.
Food Fight! has had 13,973 downloads worldwide since it's January 28 release. But it is free. Damn.
Tickle Stones has had 209 downloads at 99¢ since it's March 24 release. :-( Tickle Stones is not a game, it's an entertainment.
I have a new game, Nesen Probe, waiting for review right now and I'm keeping my finger's crossed for it. Thankfully, I'm doing iPhone games for fun and not for a living!
I've made $33 over 3 days. AND I'm featured in New and Noteworthy and What's Hot... not looking good. lol. Luckily it's not an app I really care about, threw it together in a few hours. If my game has sales that pitiful I will find a train with new, sharp, shiny wheels.
jweaver911 said: @design that seems like a pretty good number even if it is free!
Yeah, I don't really understand, as it was never featured by Apple. It gets about 40-60 downloads every day, but I'll be darned if I know how people find it.
no need to start attacking each other here we have been having a solid discussion and I feel this was just taking an unneeded stab at me just because I may have ruffled your feathers earlier.
@jweaver911 Just because people do not agree with me does not mean I should not voice my opinion. Only few people dare to go against the grain.
@Eastbound I highly doubt that his games have effected any GS users sales at all. If an app sells 1 a month and your first conclusion is that "people like DeadPixel ruined the rep or GS users that must be why you did not sell more copies". Maybe you should look else where for a solution for poor sales because blaming DeadPixel is just ridiculous. Now that wasn't intended for you specifically, just a general use of the word "you".
@QS if you had better things to do with your time why would you continue to discus this with me? like I said if it bothers you that much then you should be contacting Nintendo about it and no need to give DeadPixel a "warning" to take it down. that is what the authorities are for not you. If you dont want to get them involved then dont bother talking to DeadPixel about it, bottom line.
I dont know if people here read the previous posts before making their own, but I guess I have to say this. Never did I say DeadPixel was right in doing what he did. All i said was that I was happy he made some money and that everyone here does not have the right to badger him like I have seen. It is not your place to do that and if it does bother you then inform the proper authorities that is what they are for.
I have a very strong theory that most people who have said something to DeadPixel are just jealous that he has made more money off of this than most of everyones apps combined. and it just grinds their gears that someone could steal an idea and make more money than your "original" ideas.
no need to start attacking each other here we have been having a solid discussion and I feel this was just taking an unneeded stab at me just because I may have ruffled your feathers earlier.
@jweaver911 Just because people do not agree with me does not mean I should not voice my opinion. Only few people dare to go against the grain.
I'm not attacking you at all, merely stating that your youth shows.
As for going against the grain... good on you, you hero! You've put us all in our places. You're right... I've been too scared to "speak up" in the past... always living in fear that someone bigger than me might jump out of my computer screen and beat me up. I just wish I'd always been as brave and dishonourable as you. You see, it was nothing to do with the fact that someone has STOLEN someone else's work.. I have no problem with that at all... because all I wanted was to go against the grain, like you but I was just too scared.
I've learnt from you not to be afraid and to do what I want, no matter what the consequences are. WHO WANTS TO GO OUT RAPING AND MURDERING TONIGHT? LET'S ALL GO AGAINST THE GRAIN! Just like emos and goths! We can "dare to be different" while at the same time being exactly the same as each other!
Player_E, you're right. Everyone has an opinion. And my opinion is that you and DeadPixelz are both idiots. Now, THAT was more of an "attack" ;-)
I have a very strong theory that most people who have said something to DeadPixel are just jealous that he has made more money off of this than most of everyones apps combined. and it just grinds their gears that someone could steal an idea and make more money than your "original" ideas.
Oh and as for that, I only just read in this thread the claim of 200 downloads a day. Personally, I hope he sells thousands upon thousands of copies and makes more than any other iPhone dev ever. Because he won't be seeing a single cent of it.
But you're right, it does piss people off when thieves prosper from others work... funny that...
Player_E you keep saying people are having a bash of Deadpixelz out of jealousy....
I think quite a few people are actually doing it out of anger, annoyance or disappointment.
Quite a few of the forum members tried to help him and give him guidance when it looked like he was about to get sued by Miniclips over his previous misadventure. We were rather pleased for him when the situation was resolved, and he didnt get into trouble.
But then, he went and did it again, but to a far worse degree... basically ignoring the good advice people had tried to give him previously.
No one wants to see him get into trouble... and no one wants him bringing his own reputation, or that of GameSalad into disrepute. But doing things the way he is, its only going to end badly.
At some point, be it this game or the next, hes going to come up against someone not as forgiving as Miniclip were, and theyre going to sue him, and make an example of him.... and its gonna hit him for far more money than he'll have made.
And to be honest, I doubt he'll ever actually see any money from the App, so jealousy doesnt really come into it....
POLYGAMe said: I'm not attacking you at all, merely stating that your youth shows.
As for going against the grain... good on you, you hero! You've put us all in our places. You're right... I've been too scared to "speak up" in the past... always living in fear that someone bigger than me might jump out of my computer screen and beat me up. I just wish I'd always been as brave and dishonourable as you. You see, it was nothing to do with the fact that someone has STOLEN someone else's work.. I have no problem with that at all... because all I wanted was to go against the grain, like you but I was just too scared.
I've learnt from you not to be afraid and to do what I want, no matter what the consequences are. WHO WANTS TO GO OUT RAPING AND MURDERING TONIGHT? LET'S ALL GO AGAINST THE GRAIN! Just like emos and goths! We can "dare to be different" while at the same time being exactly the same as each other!
Player_E, you're right. Everyone has an opinion. And my opinion is that you and DeadPixelz are both idiots. Now, THAT was more of an "attack" ;-)
This will be the last response that I make to you Polygame and yes, I will go down to your level in this response. I feel that this type of "attitude" is not needed anywhere on the web and its sad that some people will only talk like this and insult people while safely in their home huddled behind their computer screen. I have been very civil in my responses, but you seem to disregard the common courtesy of treating people with respect. Now coming from a 19 year old to a 34 year old boy that should really make you think more about what your mother has taught you growing up as a child, but I guess you are still growing up.
I almost feel as if you don't even read the entire response, you only take out bits and pieces. I'll state once again for you since you seem to be a little bit slower than most. I never said that what he is doing is right, all I said was that i'm glad he is making some money and that it is not our place to ridicule him. Now tell me how does that translate to "WHO WANTS TO GO OUT RAPING AND MURDERING TONIGHT? LET'S ALL GO AGAINST THE GRAIN!"
Now I guess you have to insult me to make yourself feel like more of a man. I mean your 34 years old of course you would need to insult someone younger then you to boost your ego. I hope that you realize that when your on the internet you turn into a child and it's pitiful. You don't deserve any respect at all and honestly you are scum if this is how you treat complete strangers.
Now I guess you achieved your goal of making me stoop to your level, but you needed that and I hope you learn from it.
P.S. Feel free to insult me some more if you would like. I am your punching bag now. I wont throw any punches back I promise.
Sorry, couldn't be bothered reading all that... I'm a bit slow.
Player_E said: I will go down to your level in this response. I feel that this type of "attitude" is not needed anywhere on the web and its sad that some people will only talk like this and insult people while safely in their home huddled behind their computer screen.
So first, you say that the majority of people here on the forums are too scared to "go against the grain". Then, you say I feel braver because I'm at safe at home... talk about contradicting yourself. And if you understood anything about sarcasm, you would have noted that that was exactly what I was talking about in my post - the fact that if anyone were to be too scared to "go against the grain", when safely at home behind their computers, that would be pathetic. I agree, in the "real" world, people often refrain from speaking out, even when it's for the greater good... not here though... I think you'll find everyone just has an opinion on this matter that differs from yours. Because yours has no scruples, honour, pride or anything remotely good about it. Seriously, and I quote: "I'm glad he's making money"... from a stolen game?!?!?! So you wouldn't mind if I came into your house, stole your stuff and made a profit from it on eBay? As I said before, you're an idiot. And yes, I am 34 and you are 19. I was 19 once and I was an idiot too... you'll hopefully grow out of it.
I bet you thought I was going to defend the statement about me being "slower than most" too... well I'm not... that part was true...
Comments
Q. If you made a top game, what would you expect to happen?
A. You see various rip offs of it, with altered names and content.
B. You see someone release a game with your games name, content complete copy and even the description the same.
TShirt will tell you himself that he has borrowed ideas but everything he does is his own work (or at least he owns the rights to it), he tries to add his own bits to it as well to adapt it.
Remember, content and branding IS copyrighted, concept IS NOT.
Oh have you heard about Burger King? They've just launched their new burger 'Big Mac'. The concept of selling burgers is fine, however you cant copy the burger and name, they've now changed the name to 'XL Bacon and Cheese'.
I've not bashed Deadpixel 'constantly'. It's been in just two threads - this one (which was a response to your post) and the one that directly dealt with this issue. I've chosen, personally, to ignore the guy. My responses here are more directed at you than him, and trying to explain to you why I think his position is indefensible. Why mention your age? It has nothing to do with this.
I was brought up to treat others as I'd like to be treated myself. I know that not everyone subscribes to this way of thinking, and that's fine. I just try and lead my life that way.
I try not to judge others either. If I don't like something someone does, I usually just ignore it or avoid them. But these are our own opinions of how to live our lives. And opinions are, by their very nature, subjective.
The objective facts here, though, are that a game has been copied exactly and put onto the app store for personal profit. And it's not the first time this guy has done it, despite a close call with a lawyer the first time.
It is an objective fact that Deadpixel could be taken to court. And the objective facts will show that he's in breach of copyright. He could be fined THOUSANDS. That's regardless of your opinion or mine.
Now, you go ahead and preach to me about your principles. And I can preach to you about mine. But objectively, this guy is in the wrong.
And if you still don't get it... well, I can't help you there.
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I picked up a book the other day called Harry Potter by an author called J.K.WhoTheHellCares.
Player_E, It's all down to creativity in making something (relatively) original, and knowing that, with copyright laws across most of the globe, no one can copy it without permission; and even if they did, at least have the half-decency to put that the name of the owner of the original concept.
And "just" because its Nintendo doesn't alter the fact that they created and own the copyright to Duck Shoot. It could easily have been owned by a waitress in Alaska. Same thing. (sort of ;-) Because he's bringing disrepute to Gendai, as well as those who use GS - all those that sweat to make something relatively original and interesting to play using their own creativity – and people don't want that, so they try to change his mind, before he gets into trouble (in this case, with Nintendo). It's not a constant bashing of DeadPixel; it's a constant gentle (or forceful) persuasion to stop stealing (yes, stealing) a game, pixel by pixel, word for word, etc,. As QS pointed out, There's no copyright on the genre of games. No one would have any problem if he had, at least, named it Pigeon Shoot for instance, and had pigeons being shot. And spent a couple of hours on the net to find some copyright-free graphics, if he can't do his own. A bit of creative additition to the original concept would have been good as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Spiral Gyro Games
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
He's already had a lawyer come to the forums and post about the legal action that would be taken, most people would get the idea by now. I hope GameSalad will take the steps to ban him. Give him a refund or whatever, but he's hurting your brand, as well.
If you have any scrupels at all, you would take the game down.
I truly hope that for your sake, you do it soon because you could be in a world of trouble with Nintendo if you don't.
I would give the same advice to a friend, to a family member, to a co-worker, and to a stranger. Do the right thing.
The fact that you're saying "Nintendo hasn't pulled the game yet" pretty much sums up the fact that you know it's wrong.
Deal!
I was raised not to judge anyone either
Unfortunately I grew up (a little anyways)
There is a diff between judging and giving GOOD advice
In the big boy world plagiarism is illegal and it will bite you right in the nuts if you aren't careful.
I dont think other people do it would hold up in court.
"But, your honor, people shoot and kill each other all the time. Whats the big deal?"
Doesn't really work there, does it?
STOP POSTING!!!
If you don't....
Continue ON!!!!!!
I had one sale yesterday.
WOOOOOOOO
hows everyone else doing
;-)
:-)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Spiral Gyro Games
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
Tickle Stones has had 209 downloads at 99¢ since it's March 24 release. :-( Tickle Stones is not a game, it's an entertainment.
I have a new game, Nesen Probe, waiting for review right now and I'm keeping my finger's crossed for it. Thankfully, I'm doing iPhone games for fun and not for a living!
_______________
Tickle Stones http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tickle-stones/id363484260?mt=8
Food Fight! (free) http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/food-fight/id352646643?mt=8
What is the top number of downloads that anybody's free game has gotten?
@jweaver911
Just because people do not agree with me does not mean I should not voice my opinion. Only few people dare to go against the grain.
@Eastbound
I highly doubt that his games have effected any GS users sales at all. If an app sells 1 a month and your first conclusion is that "people like DeadPixel ruined the rep or GS users that must be why you did not sell more copies". Maybe you should look else where for a solution for poor sales because blaming DeadPixel is just ridiculous. Now that wasn't intended for you specifically, just a general use of the word "you".
@QS
if you had better things to do with your time why would you continue to discus this with me? like I said if it bothers you that much then you should be contacting Nintendo about it and no need to give DeadPixel a "warning" to take it down. that is what the authorities are for not you. If you dont want to get them involved then dont bother talking to DeadPixel about it, bottom line.
I dont know if people here read the previous posts before making their own, but I guess I have to say this. Never did I say DeadPixel was right in doing what he did. All i said was that I was happy he made some money and that everyone here does not have the right to badger him like I have seen. It is not your place to do that and if it does bother you then inform the proper authorities that is what they are for.
I have a very strong theory that most people who have said something to DeadPixel are just jealous that he has made more money off of this than most of everyones apps combined. and it just grinds their gears that someone could steal an idea and make more money than your "original" ideas.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
As for going against the grain... good on you, you hero! You've put us all in our places. You're right... I've been too scared to "speak up" in the past... always living in fear that someone bigger than me might jump out of my computer screen and beat me up. I just wish I'd always been as brave and dishonourable as you. You see, it was nothing to do with the fact that someone has STOLEN someone else's work.. I have no problem with that at all... because all I wanted was to go against the grain, like you but I was just too scared.
I've learnt from you not to be afraid and to do what I want, no matter what the consequences are. WHO WANTS TO GO OUT RAPING AND MURDERING TONIGHT? LET'S ALL GO AGAINST THE GRAIN! Just like emos and goths! We can "dare to be different" while at the same time being exactly the same as each other!
Player_E, you're right. Everyone has an opinion. And my opinion is that you and DeadPixelz are both idiots. Now, THAT was more of an "attack" ;-)
But you're right, it does piss people off when thieves prosper from others work... funny that...
I think quite a few people are actually doing it out of anger, annoyance or disappointment.
Quite a few of the forum members tried to help him and give him guidance when it looked like he was about to get sued by Miniclips over his previous misadventure. We were rather pleased for him when the situation was resolved, and he didnt get into trouble.
But then, he went and did it again, but to a far worse degree... basically ignoring the good advice people had tried to give him previously.
No one wants to see him get into trouble... and no one wants him bringing his own reputation, or that of GameSalad into disrepute. But doing things the way he is, its only going to end badly.
At some point, be it this game or the next, hes going to come up against someone not as forgiving as Miniclip were, and theyre going to sue him, and make an example of him.... and its gonna hit him for far more money than he'll have made.
And to be honest, I doubt he'll ever actually see any money from the App, so jealousy doesnt really come into it....
I almost feel as if you don't even read the entire response, you only take out bits and pieces. I'll state once again for you since you seem to be a little bit slower than most. I never said that what he is doing is right, all I said was that i'm glad he is making some money and that it is not our place to ridicule him. Now tell me how does that translate to "WHO WANTS TO GO OUT RAPING AND MURDERING TONIGHT? LET'S ALL GO AGAINST THE GRAIN!"
Now I guess you have to insult me to make yourself feel like more of a man. I mean your 34 years old of course you would need to insult someone younger then you to boost your ego. I hope that you realize that when your on the internet you turn into a child and it's pitiful. You don't deserve any respect at all and honestly you are scum if this is how you treat complete strangers.
Now I guess you achieved your goal of making me stoop to your level, but you needed that and I hope you learn from it.
P.S.
Feel free to insult me some more if you would like. I am your punching bag now. I wont throw any punches back I promise.
hmmm
I bet you thought I was going to defend the statement about me being "slower than most" too... well I'm not... that part was true...