@vafurlogi I dont know but 14 seconds is alot , my game doesnt take this long ! it only takes about 2 seconds to load the scene, and it is not a flappy bird type of game. But I know that it depends on the device , cause I remember playing super heavy sword on galaxy s5 and iphone 5s , on galaxy it takes less than 2 seconds to load , on iphone it takes about 4 seconds , and im sure its a heavy game ! I hope performance works well for you though and good luck
@Socks said:
It's a genuine question in an entirely legitimate conversation from what I can see, I can't see where the need to poison-the-well comes from ?
There has been perceived miss-management for years, and now that things seem to be changing, of course people are going to voice their opinions, and of course previous failures to deliver are going to come up. I disagree with @Socks to some extent here. I think a general malaise has taken hold, but it's being cast off right now and I really hope GameSalad take the opportunity to seize this shift in attitudes.
@Armelline said:
One of the heavily requested ad networks has been/is being implemented. I'm sure other things too, but that springs to mind.
Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about that, and like you say there may have been some other things too, but I can't honestly think of anything obvious, but in general, besides the ad network (of course no small deal in its own right) these systems tend not to produce anything - or more correctly in the context of why people might not engage in the process, they have not really produced anything in the past.
For example, it took just under a year for GameSalad to confirm that they were aware of the interpolate issue, that's not a year to address / fix the bug, but a year to just say 'yes, we are aware of this issue' - with a system this unresponsive it's not unreasonable for people to slowly lose interest (if that's actually the case) - of course GameSalad cannot rush to deal with something every time a user highlights an issue, but as you've said elsewhere all it would take to quell the angry savages would be a 'Oh, yeah, we spotted that too, it's a blah blah blah error in the blah blah blah subroutine, we're not going to be able to address that until we reformat the blah blah blah toward the end of the year' especially if any issue is well known on the forums.
@WebWarrior Currently has 6 votes and is ranked #8. #1 is polygon collisions with 34 votes, and #2 is custom fonts with 29 votes.
Top request for Engine is "Feature Request: Chartboost Rewarded Video Ads" with 30 votes.
I would really like to see this feature implemented immediately. In my honest opinion, it's almost a little sad GameSalad doesn't offer this already...Made me think twice about continuing to develop with GameSalad
@Armelline said:
Top request for Engine is "Feature Request: Chartboost Rewarded Video Ads" with 30 votes.
The GameSalad team must be tearing their hair out right now.
Give us custom fonts!
No, give us polygonal collision!
But I want to change the default text colour!
Hey video ads are the most important thing!
You love us, really.
I was thinking that too
dgackeyAustin, TXInactive, PRO, Chef EmeritusPosts: 699
edited July 2015
@Socks said:
It's a genuine question in an entirely legitimate conversation from what I can see, I can't see where the need to poison-the-well comes from ?
You asked if any user request on a forum thread or feature request in BZ has ever resulted in a new feature ever being implemented in the last 5 years, and you're not sure where the well was poisoned?
I'm sorry, I just can't take that seriously. You know full well that this is a ridiculous characterization.
"So, Mr. GameSalad, when did you stop beating your wife?"
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
@Icebox1910 said:
I don't know if performance is that much of an issue now with new devices, I think it used to be with old devices , but many people now use new devices and performance is good, the only issue might be with the loading time, which takes less than 4 seconds when i tried many gamesalad games on different devices . My game is a platformer with 100 actors and lot of moveable actors, constrains and big images,it runs pretty smooth 58 - 60 fps sometimes drops to 55 but thats it.
FPS isn't the main offender in current builds for performance. It's RAM usage and load times. Ram usage in particular is killing some peoples projects (literally put on hold), and in my case has me looking at a reduced device range when it comes time to release my next game.
Also more available ram/better management means we can push GS even further then currently.
@WebWarrior said:
Ah, I see what you're saying. (Thought you were just making fun of my awkward grammar!).
No, sorry, I should have been clearer (laziness on my part).
@WebWarrior said:
It is incorrect to assume that we don't care about features that have been suggested many years ago and have no intention to implement them.
Agreed, but whether the assumption is incorrect or not, this has no bearing on the perception* people have - I also don't think it's an unreasonable assumption (again, whether right or wrong).
"I'd agree, whether it's a true reflection of GameSalad's actual outlook or not it's certainly the perception* (for me at least), that Creator has numerous interface issues that can make even basic tasks cumbersome, and there seems to be absolutely no interest in addressing these issues"
@WebWarrior said:
Especially now that our priorities have shifted a bit (you might have noticed ), it's worth bringing these suggestions to our attention, even if you've done so before. Just please do so nicely.
I'm not sure what would qualify as doing this nicely, I'll assume something I've said was considered rude or offensive (?).
I'm always a little wary of bringing these issues up - in this thread there are already signs from GS staff of taking - what I see as - quite reasonable frustrations personally (or at least a little too personally) I suspect English culture and American culture don't always mesh, there are misunderstandings flying around (English people can be seen as rude when they are being humorous, American people can be see as being 'fake' when they are being genuinely honest), pursuing these issues - with the kind of language I'm used to in my every day life - has inn the past led to me attracting a lifetime ban from GameSalad, I was eventually - after many months - allowed back into the fold, and I suppose I learnt to modify my language when interacting with people here somewhat, but I'm always wary of getting too involved as I'm prone to reverting to type so this is something I really shouldn't get involved in too much.
@WebWarrior said:
It's probably not even worth bringing up how old the request is. It only serves to stir up anger and accusations and really has no relevance in determining how good of an idea it is today.
If the conversation is - for example - about a lack of engagement with a tool like Bugzilla, then I'd say these kinds of points can be absolutely relevant . . . but hey ho, no big deal, and I appreciate it can't be fun listening to people expressing frustrations with various issues (especially non-paying users like myself !), I'm alive to all that, but of course these conversations only deal with those frustrations, and not the 92% of GameSalad people absolutely love, but with all that said I do understand what you are saying.
@Icebox1910 said:
I don't know if performance is that much of an issue now with new devices, I think it used to be with old devices
One area that has certainly improved is GameSalad's performance - above and beyond increasingly powerful mobile devices - GameSalad was always impressive (to me at least) when it came to throwing dozens of images around a screen and this has only got better over the years, even on older devices.
OK lets break it down. There is a vote list of votes that show features listed top vote to least vote. Then there is the roadmap. Then there is the unwritten list of Things that GS staff are working on. Can we compare these 3? I want to see how these 3 coincide with one another. Why is there a list for us to vote on. If the 3 of the top 10 arent being worked on at this time?
There are features and there are bugs. The sad fact is that there will always be bugs. So you cant say features will be worked on when bugs are gone. If you use that logic. features will never be worked on. SO in regards to our Top 10 list. Which one of the top 10 features requested, will be released first? Look at the that list..... now look at your ToDo list over there in the GS staff office and tell me........ whats coming out first?
@dgackey said:
I'm sorry, I just can't take that seriously.
Ok, no problem.
(by the way, I've not stopped beating my wife)
dgackeyAustin, TXInactive, PRO, Chef EmeritusPosts: 699
@FINNBOGG said:
Which one of the top 10 features requested, will be released first? Look at the that list..... now look at your ToDo list over there in the GS staff office and tell me........ whats coming out first?
No Sir I didnt ask for a list. IM asking you to look at the lists and you tell me....... in regards to the list that shows our voting stats. Which of the top 5 that are listed, are you guys working on to release first. Not bug fixes, not roadmap. Which feature from the voting list? Polygon Collision? Custom Fonts? etc etc etc???????
@jayleedesigns said:
I firmly believe on the psuedo 3d and 2d space you can build anything with gamesalad. Complain all you want, but you can make anything. I swear.
3d?
dgackeyAustin, TXInactive, PRO, Chef EmeritusPosts: 699
The link I posted is the #1 user-requested feature since we launched the public bug DB. It is in 0.14 and next to be released.
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
@KevinCross said:
If having a preference window is too much how about remembering what colour text we choose and defaulting to that each time we add Display Text, until we change it? That can't be that difficult surely?
Ok, you guys convinced us. The default color for the DisplayText behavior is now black.
For those keeping score it took about an hour of clock time and about 2 man hours from 3 programmers to change it on both Mac and Windows. There really are no 5 minute fixes.
@KevinCross said:
Perhaps you should probably show more presence on some of the positive posts.
Perhaps, but those posts tend to be longer which would require a longer response. When I have to choose between writing code and writing a long response I tend to favor code.
@GeorgeGS said:
For those keeping score it took about an hour of clock time and about 2 man hours from 3 programmers to change it on both Mac and Windows. There really are no 5 minute fixes.
Just think about all of the time you've saved your customers going forwards by making this fix. While it makes no difference to me now. Thank you
Yes........ I see a list. But that doesnt tell me what you guys are working on at this time, in regards to said list. From the list........ what feature should we expect you to release first? Polygon Collision? Custom Fonts? etc etc.. Whats being worked on at this time?
In the next 10 updates. These updates will list what bugs have been fixed and what new features have been released to the creator. ( if there are any new features). If there are to be a new features ..... what feature are you currently working on and hoping to release first? I think you fully understand the premise of my question.
@jayleedesigns said:
I firmly believe on the psuedo 3d and 2d space you can build anything with gamesalad. Complain all you want, but you can make anything. I swear.
That's not really what the discussion is about :P
@GeorgeGS said:
Perhaps, but those posts tend to be longer which would require a longer response. When I have to choose between writing code and writing a long response I tend to favor code.
Not necessarily. Perhaps something like "Too much to delve into while fixing bugs, but some interesting points!" It's much more pleasant for both parties to have nice things to say!
Ok, you guys convinced us. The default color for the DisplayText behavior is now black.
Best news I've heard all day! Back soon when I think of something else to complain about!
For those keeping score it took about an hour of clock time and about 2 man hours from 3 programmers to change it on both Mac and Windows. There really are no 5 minute fixes.
I think 5 minutes is loosely used to mean "anything form 10 seconds to 20 minutes". I have to admit I was forgetting (as I always do) the Windows creator. Still a little surprised it took so long, though. But that is exactly the kind of information we're clamouring to be given right now, and in one post you basically shut down two lines of "complaint", and got to give people what they wanted too!
I think I see the financial side to the slow release of features. Alot of these features would speed up the work needed to publish. More time=more months of subscriptions.
@GeorgeGS said:
Changing the default text color is simple. We've almost done it several times in just the last 2 weeks. The issue is, if all you use are default white boxes then black is a better choice than white. If you use real art then white is probably a better default choice than black. If you choose a 3rd option and add a preference for it that each user can set for themselves it isn't a 5 minute fix anymore.
Some ideas off the top of my head - obviously I don't know what involves tearing the code base apart and what involves changing a couple of variables - but anyhow . . .
Option + dragging a Display Text behaviour modifies colour to black - normal dragging sets it to white ?
Two Display Text behaviours ? Display Text (W) and Display Text (B) ?
The colour selector automatically pops up when your release the Display Text behaviour into the drag and drop area . . .and automatically closes when you release your mouse after clicking in the colour wheel.
A simple black / white radio button on the Display Text behaviour ?
And so on . . . . just some ideas, but like I say this is not a life or death thing, I'm sure there are many more important things to be focusing on.
I don't get the complaints I suppose. I am excited about the future of GS. Snap to grid would be amazing, but there are plenty of ways to achieve what you want with GS. I suppose that was my point.
It wold be nice to see a roadmap, but I think they have made the priorities pretty clear. The marketplace situation definitely bums me out. I would have liked to recieve payment by now. Hearing about how its getting shut down indefinitely in aforum comment would have been nice to know sooner.
I think overall communication could be better. Whats funny is Codewizard seemed like the voice and now he's top dog over there. I'm sure there is alot hapening that we are clueless about that effect all of this.
dgackeyAustin, TXInactive, PRO, Chef EmeritusPosts: 699
@FINNBOGG said:
I think I see the financial side to the slow release of features. Alot of these features would speed up the work needed to publish. More time=more months of subscriptions.
Not really, when anyone can subscribe and cancel at any time. The best way for us to get "more months of subscriptions" is to keep customers happy.
I've said it repeatedly and feel like I need to reiterate this: you need to decide whether GS is a good value for you right now, as it stands today, and then decide if you want to subscribe or not.
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
@GeorgeGS said:
For those keeping score it took about an hour of clock time and about 2 man hours from 3 programmers to change it on both Mac and Windows. There really are no 5 minute fixes.
I understand what you are trying to say in this statement but this is actually helpful info for users. Many believe because GS is relatively easy to use therefor the software behind it should be the same.
Although this appears to be a small change to GS. I actually can now appreciate the effort you guys needed to do it. 6 hours of work!!!! Wow.
I like GS. My rant started when someone commented on snap to grid not being that important because it's like 8th on the list. So using that logic. One would expect that the top 2 or 3 things on the list are currently being worked on. And with that logic I asked. When are we going to see polygon collision or custom fonts? So I ask again. Using this logic. What should we expect first to be released. Polygon Collision or custom fonts?
@FINNBOGG said:
I like GS. My rant started when someone commented on snap to grid not being that important because it's like 8th on the list. So using that logic. One would expect that the top 2 or 3 things on the list are currently being worked on. And with that logic I asked. When are we going to see polygon collision or custom fonts? So I ask again. Using this logic. What should we expect first to be released. Polygon Collision or custom fonts?
Comments
@vafurlogi I dont know but 14 seconds is alot , my game doesnt take this long ! it only takes about 2 seconds to load the scene, and it is not a flappy bird type of game. But I know that it depends on the device , cause I remember playing super heavy sword on galaxy s5 and iphone 5s , on galaxy it takes less than 2 seconds to load , on iphone it takes about 4 seconds , and im sure its a heavy game ! I hope performance works well for you though and good luck
There has been perceived miss-management for years, and now that things seem to be changing, of course people are going to voice their opinions, and of course previous failures to deliver are going to come up. I disagree with @Socks to some extent here. I think a general malaise has taken hold, but it's being cast off right now and I really hope GameSalad take the opportunity to seize this shift in attitudes.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about that, and like you say there may have been some other things too, but I can't honestly think of anything obvious, but in general, besides the ad network (of course no small deal in its own right) these systems tend not to produce anything - or more correctly in the context of why people might not engage in the process, they have not really produced anything in the past.
For example, it took just under a year for GameSalad to confirm that they were aware of the interpolate issue, that's not a year to address / fix the bug, but a year to just say 'yes, we are aware of this issue' - with a system this unresponsive it's not unreasonable for people to slowly lose interest (if that's actually the case) - of course GameSalad cannot rush to deal with something every time a user highlights an issue, but as you've said elsewhere all it would take to quell the angry savages would be a 'Oh, yeah, we spotted that too, it's a blah blah blah error in the blah blah blah subroutine, we're not going to be able to address that until we reformat the blah blah blah toward the end of the year' especially if any issue is well known on the forums.
Top request for Engine is "Feature Request: Chartboost Rewarded Video Ads" with 30 votes.
I would really like to see this feature implemented immediately. In my honest opinion, it's almost a little sad GameSalad doesn't offer this already...Made me think twice about continuing to develop with GameSalad
The GameSalad team must be tearing their hair out right now.
Give us custom fonts!
No, give us polygonal collision!
But I want to change the default text colour!
Hey video ads are the most important thing!
You love us, really.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
I was thinking that too
You asked if any user request on a forum thread or feature request in BZ has ever resulted in a new feature ever being implemented in the last 5 years, and you're not sure where the well was poisoned?
I'm sorry, I just can't take that seriously. You know full well that this is a ridiculous characterization.
"So, Mr. GameSalad, when did you stop beating your wife?"
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
FPS isn't the main offender in current builds for performance. It's RAM usage and load times. Ram usage in particular is killing some peoples projects (literally put on hold), and in my case has me looking at a reduced device range when it comes time to release my next game.
Also more available ram/better management means we can push GS even further then currently.
Follow us: Twitter - Website
No, sorry, I should have been clearer (laziness on my part).
Agreed, but whether the assumption is incorrect or not, this has no bearing on the perception* people have - I also don't think it's an unreasonable assumption (again, whether right or wrong).
"I'd agree, whether it's a true reflection of GameSalad's actual outlook or not it's certainly the perception* (for me at least), that Creator has numerous interface issues that can make even basic tasks cumbersome, and there seems to be absolutely no interest in addressing these issues"
I'm not sure what would qualify as doing this nicely, I'll assume something I've said was considered rude or offensive (?).
I'm always a little wary of bringing these issues up - in this thread there are already signs from GS staff of taking - what I see as - quite reasonable frustrations personally (or at least a little too personally) I suspect English culture and American culture don't always mesh, there are misunderstandings flying around (English people can be seen as rude when they are being humorous, American people can be see as being 'fake' when they are being genuinely honest), pursuing these issues - with the kind of language I'm used to in my every day life - has inn the past led to me attracting a lifetime ban from GameSalad, I was eventually - after many months - allowed back into the fold, and I suppose I learnt to modify my language when interacting with people here somewhat, but I'm always wary of getting too involved as I'm prone to reverting to type
so this is something I really shouldn't get involved in too much.
If the conversation is - for example - about a lack of engagement with a tool like Bugzilla, then I'd say these kinds of points can be absolutely relevant . . . but hey ho, no big deal, and I appreciate it can't be fun listening to people expressing frustrations with various issues (especially non-paying users like myself !), I'm alive to all that, but of course these conversations only deal with those frustrations, and not the 92% of GameSalad people absolutely love, but with all that said I do understand what you are saying.
One area that has certainly improved is GameSalad's performance - above and beyond increasingly powerful mobile devices - GameSalad was always impressive (to me at least) when it came to throwing dozens of images around a screen and this has only got better over the years, even on older devices.
OK lets break it down. There is a vote list of votes that show features listed top vote to least vote. Then there is the roadmap. Then there is the unwritten list of Things that GS staff are working on. Can we compare these 3? I want to see how these 3 coincide with one another. Why is there a list for us to vote on. If the 3 of the top 10 arent being worked on at this time?
There are features and there are bugs. The sad fact is that there will always be bugs. So you cant say features will be worked on when bugs are gone. If you use that logic. features will never be worked on. SO in regards to our Top 10 list. Which one of the top 10 features requested, will be released first? Look at the that list..... now look at your ToDo list over there in the GS staff office and tell me........ whats coming out first?
Ok, no problem.
(by the way, I've not stopped beating my wife)
http://bugs.gamesalad.com/show_bug.cgi?id=261
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
I firmly believe on the psuedo 3d and 2d space you can build anything with gamesalad. Complain all you want, but you can make anything. I swear.
Making the world better one pixel at a time!
My Website
Over 70 AWESOME Gamesalad Templates by me!
HIRE ME!
No Sir I didnt ask for a list. IM asking you to look at the lists and you tell me....... in regards to the list that shows our voting stats. Which of the top 5 that are listed, are you guys working on to release first. Not bug fixes, not roadmap. Which feature from the voting list? Polygon Collision? Custom Fonts? etc etc etc???????
3d?
The link I posted is the #1 user-requested feature since we launched the public bug DB. It is in 0.14 and next to be released.
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
Ok, you guys convinced us. The default color for the DisplayText behavior is now black.
For those keeping score it took about an hour of clock time and about 2 man hours from 3 programmers to change it on both Mac and Windows. There really are no 5 minute fixes.
Perhaps, but those posts tend to be longer which would require a longer response. When I have to choose between writing code and writing a long response I tend to favor code.
Just think about all of the time you've saved your customers going forwards by making this fix. While it makes no difference to me now. Thank you
Yes........ I see a list. But that doesnt tell me what you guys are working on at this time, in regards to said list. From the list........ what feature should we expect you to release first? Polygon Collision? Custom Fonts? etc etc.. Whats being worked on at this time?
In the next 10 updates. These updates will list what bugs have been fixed and what new features have been released to the creator. ( if there are any new features). If there are to be a new features ..... what feature are you currently working on and hoping to release first? I think you fully understand the premise of my question.
That's not really what the discussion is about :P
Not necessarily. Perhaps something like "Too much to delve into while fixing bugs, but some interesting points!" It's much more pleasant for both parties to have nice things to say!
Best news I've heard all day! Back soon when I think of something else to complain about!
I think 5 minutes is loosely used to mean "anything form 10 seconds to 20 minutes". I have to admit I was forgetting (as I always do) the Windows creator. Still a little surprised it took so long, though. But that is exactly the kind of information we're clamouring to be given right now, and in one post you basically shut down two lines of "complaint", and got to give people what they wanted too!
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
I think I see the financial side to the slow release of features. Alot of these features would speed up the work needed to publish. More time=more months of subscriptions.
Some ideas off the top of my head - obviously I don't know what involves tearing the code base apart and what involves changing a couple of variables - but anyhow . . .
Option + dragging a Display Text behaviour modifies colour to black - normal dragging sets it to white ?
Two Display Text behaviours ? Display Text (W) and Display Text (B) ?
The colour selector automatically pops up when your release the Display Text behaviour into the drag and drop area . . .and automatically closes when you release your mouse after clicking in the colour wheel.
A simple black / white radio button on the Display Text behaviour ?
And so on . . . . just some ideas, but like I say this is not a life or death thing, I'm sure there are many more important things to be focusing on.
I don't get the complaints I suppose. I am excited about the future of GS. Snap to grid would be amazing, but there are plenty of ways to achieve what you want with GS. I suppose that was my point.
It wold be nice to see a roadmap, but I think they have made the priorities pretty clear. The marketplace situation definitely bums me out. I would have liked to recieve payment by now. Hearing about how its getting shut down indefinitely in aforum comment would have been nice to know sooner.
I think overall communication could be better. Whats funny is Codewizard seemed like the voice and now he's top dog over there. I'm sure there is alot hapening that we are clueless about that effect all of this.
Making the world better one pixel at a time!
My Website
Over 70 AWESOME Gamesalad Templates by me!
HIRE ME!
Not really, when anyone can subscribe and cancel at any time. The best way for us to get "more months of subscriptions" is to keep customers happy.
I've said it repeatedly and feel like I need to reiterate this: you need to decide whether GS is a good value for you right now, as it stands today, and then decide if you want to subscribe or not.
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
There's very few actual complaints, more requests and expressions of confusion and frustration.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
I understand what you are trying to say in this statement but this is actually helpful info for users. Many believe because GS is relatively easy to use therefor the software behind it should be the same.
Although this appears to be a small change to GS. I actually can now appreciate the effort you guys needed to do it. 6 hours of work!!!! Wow.
thanks
I like GS. My rant started when someone commented on snap to grid not being that important because it's like 8th on the list. So using that logic. One would expect that the top 2 or 3 things on the list are currently being worked on. And with that logic I asked. When are we going to see polygon collision or custom fonts? So I ask again. Using this logic. What should we expect first to be released. Polygon Collision or custom fonts?
Whatever* they say is included in the update.