@Socks said:
I'd like to add a little context here, creativeapps contacted me at the time this was all going on, so I was aware of how the exchange between the two transpired.
Firstly creativeapps' first language is not English, so he might struggle a little to negotiate his way through all this where native English speaker might not - (@gattoman this may well be the reason he didn't respond as might be expected to your kind offer), he does well with English but I know for a fact that he might not always be picking up on some of the cultural subtleties of English, just like I'd struggle to pick up on the cultural subtleties of his native language, even though I might be able to communicate reasonably well.
Creativeapps is from India, I know what his monthly wages are (he told me at the time of the dispute) although there's no need to share them here it's enough to say that I (living in the UK) would last about 2 days on that kind of money !! And I suspect a lot of the forum users would be too, it really isn't much by western standards, even low paid workers here in the UK wouldn't (couldn't) except such low wages, so $200 really is - comparatively - a lot of money to creativeapps, this is not the same as you and me losing $200 and putting it down to a learning experience and moving on, this was a real financial setback.
This whole thing went on for a long time, a lot of PMs back and forth, repeated attempts to resolve the issue, so in that regard it wasn't a case of creativeapps not giving him second chance, creativeapps gave him a second chance and a third chance and a fourth chance and a fifth chance and a sixth chance . . . . (so on).
And the overall tone of creativeapps approach was never "Hey, you ripped me off you &^%ing son of &^% . . . " it was incredibly reasonable, and even considerate, I will quote directly from one of his emails to John . . . "Please share your problem with me so I can keep that in mind".
So I can absolutely see creativeapps frustrations, bear in mind John, at the time, was a Sous Chef, so here was this powerful (in the context of the forums at least) person who had - effectively - stolen a lot of money from him, John refused to resolve the issue amicably, he refused to respond to emails, when he did what he said in the emails turned out to be little more than fobbing creativeapps off, shutting him up, and on one occasion demanding creativeapps sign a contract that would give all the rights of the project (the project that creativeapps had paid John to build) to John !
When creativeapps attempted to deal with this through the forums his threads were closed by other Sous Chefs, I realise this is a deal between two private individuals, but what else would you or I do, the person has taken your money, he refuses to deal with you, ignores your emails, yet is active on the forum, so you PM him, nothing, you start a thread, it is closed down . . . I can very easily imagine how this must have been incredibly frustrating.
So . . . tl;dr . . . I don't think creativeapps' frustrations expressed here are at all unreasonable given what he went through, what he lost, and how he was treated (like a piece of #### !!), I think it's fantastic that John has turned his life around, I really do, lots of people don't make it out of those kinds of nosedives, it's good to see him back on the forums, and I hope he finds success and happiness in the future, and I hope he sticks around the forums too, because he's a pretty damn good coder, but I think a healing process shouldn't always be about congratulations, I think part of the healing process is coming to terms with your past, honestly and openly facing some of the s*&^ you've thrown at others (and accept what they throw back!) . . . still, as other have said, the answer to all this, is for John to now simply deal with creativeapps.
Good luck to everyone involved, I hope creativeapps recovers his stolen money, and I hope John continues to move on from his dark period.
@Socks said:
I'd like to add a little context here, creativeapps contacted me at the time this was all going on, so I was aware of how the exchange between the two transpired.
Firstly creativeapps' first language is not English, so he might struggle a little to negotiate his way through all this where native English speaker might not - (@gattoman this may well be the reason he didn't respond as might be expected to your kind offer), he does well with English but I know for a fact that he might not always be picking up on some of the cultural subtleties of English, just like I'd struggle to pick up on the cultural subtleties of his native language, even though I might be able to communicate reasonably well.
Creativeapps is from India, I know what his monthly wages are (he told me at the time of the dispute) although there's no need to share them here it's enough to say that I (living in the UK) would last about 2 days on that kind of money !! And I suspect a lot of the forum users would be too, it really isn't much by western standards, even low paid workers here in the UK wouldn't (couldn't) except such low wages, so $200 really is - comparatively - a lot of money to creativeapps, this is not the same as you and me losing $200 and putting it down to a learning experience and moving on, this was a real financial setback.
This whole thing went on for a long time, a lot of PMs back and forth, repeated attempts to resolve the issue, so in that regard it wasn't a case of creativeapps not giving him second chance, creativeapps gave him a second chance and a third chance and a fourth chance and a fifth chance and a sixth chance . . . . (so on).
And the overall tone of creativeapps approach was never "Hey, you ripped me off you &^%ing son of &^% . . . " it was incredibly reasonable, and even considerate, I will quote directly from one of his emails to John . . . "Please share your problem with me so I can keep that in mind".
So I can absolutely see creativeapps frustrations, bear in mind John, at the time, was a Sous Chef, so here was this powerful (in the context of the forums at least) person who had - effectively - stolen a lot of money from him, John refused to resolve the issue amicably, he refused to respond to emails, when he did what he said in the emails turned out to be little more than fobbing creativeapps off, shutting him up, and on one occasion demanding creativeapps sign a contract that would give all the rights of the project (the project that creativeapps had paid John to build) to John !
When creativeapps attempted to deal with this through the forums his threads were closed by other Sous Chefs, I realise this is a deal between two private individuals, but what else would you or I do, the person has taken your money, he refuses to deal with you, ignores your emails, yet is active on the forum, so you PM him, nothing, you start a thread, it is closed down . . . I can very easily imagine how this must have been incredibly frustrating.
So . . . tl;dr . . . I don't think creativeapps' frustrations expressed here are at all unreasonable given what he went through, what he lost, and how he was treated (like a piece of #### !!), I think it's fantastic that John has turned his life around, I really do, lots of people don't make it out of those kinds of nosedives, it's good to see him back on the forums, and I hope he finds success and happiness in the future, and I hope he sticks around the forums too, because he's a pretty damn good coder, but I think a healing process shouldn't always be about congratulations, I think part of the healing process is coming to terms with your past, honestly and openly facing some of the s*&^ you've thrown at others (and accept what they throw back!) . . . still, as other have said, the answer to all this, is for John to now simply deal with creativeapps.
Good luck to everyone involved, I hope creativeapps recovers his stolen money, and I hope John continues to move on from his dark period.
Thanks socks. I assumed it was a bad situation but did not know the details.
I thought I had a win win win idea.
John gets work and a restart of credibility.
I get some work done.
Creative apps gets his 200$.
I'm old and my gut says this is only going to bring problems and trouble to me.
First off thank you so so much for everyone who has welcomed me back so far and given me kind words. My email again is papiomitis@yahoo.com for anyone who needs/wants to contact me, anyone i owe work too, ect. Im tryin to do anything to build back up my reputation so anyone who needs free work done help ect please contact me.
@creativeapps first off if you dont remember you received your money back threw paypal. I have all the documentation. but that doesnt even matter at this point i will still compensate you however you feel will be necessary again i just find it weird you come on here and stay bashing me but have yet to contact me. I understand your frustration completly i was 100% in the wrong i just dont think you understand what i was going threw. I grew up in foster care and group homes and at that time i lost the only people i ever had in my life, and lost everything in the process, and lost my will to live. So work was the last thing on my mind. Again ive been waiting for you to contact me.
And again thank you so much to everyone else who has welcomed me back, i love this community and so look forward to being a part of again.
@Armelline said:
If true, that's a hell of a twist. Talk about turning this thread on its head!
Holy smokes...again ! @creativeapps is this true you haven't contacted him other than through this forum thread? That he did pay you back ? Who's the bad guy here really ?
@JohnPapiomitis I am talking about $200 which I sent you 2nd time. First time you dont have money so max sent money behalf of you. And 2nd time you didn't gave my money back.
@JohnPapiomitis said:
i will still compensate you however you feel will be necessary
Ok let me know where I give you my paypal email and you send my $200? And finish this chapter
@Armelline said:
If true, that's a hell of a twist. Talk about turning this thread on its head!
I'm not sure why creativeapps is being treated like this in this thread ?
There are two people in this conversation, presenting differing versions of what happened, why have you taken John's version as fact ? If creativeapps responded saying that John had tried to kidnapp him and eat his body ! (lol) would you then say "OMG! That's really turned the thread on its head again' - or would you take a more measured look at what is going on here, and assess the claims, the context, and the characters ?!
@Thunder_Child said:
Holy smokes...again ! @creativeapps is this true you haven't contacted him other than through this forum thread? That he did pay you back ? Who's the bad guy here really ?
Why have you decided what John has said is accurate and what creativeapps has said is untrue ?
This thread is bizarre, there is someone who I watched, day-by-day, being ripped off, someone who tried and tried and tried to resolve the issue - and doing it incredibly politely and reasonably - I was kept up to date with a lot of the correspondence at the time, and there is a second person who not only admits to having ripped off and stolen from people, with mugshots posted from his arrest for other (alleged) crimes . . . and everyone seems to want to paint creativeapps as the bad person.
All John has to do is say 'hey I paid you that back' - and that seems enough for everyone to turn on creativeapps !?
Absolutely strange.
Yes, creativeapps tried to contact John, he emailed him, he PM'd him, he started threads, all were ignored, the threads closed, he contacted SaladStraightShooter and was told he could do nothing, creativeapps had a friend who lived near John, so he asked his friend to see if he could make contact . . . . . basically he tried every possible way to contact John and was ignored, and rejected at each turn . . . . John pops up, says 'all is good' . . . everyone starts clapping . . . then says 'creativeapps didn't contact me' everyone starts booing at creativeapps, lol Ridiculous.
I'm still confused as to why there is this appetite to see creativeapps as the bad guy here, maybe it was the tone he took in this thread (perfectly understandable given what went on), maybe it's that people love a redemption story, they are seductive to people, and creativeapps comes across as the guy keeping John down ? Whatever it is, it's screwed up !! Lol
@codewizard thank you. this thread is to apologize and get back into the community. not to have a debate with him. @socks ill kindly ask you to stop bashing me as well. the stuff with creative apps doesnt involve you honestly so i please ask you to refrain. People here know who i really am and know the sketchy stuff creative apps has done in the past. You guys keep wanting to bring up my past, well im sorry we all havent had parents who raised us and have had good lives and childhoods and have had to do stuff we are ashamed off to live. you have NO idea what i have been threw in my life.
@creativeapps is being sketchy. I admitted my wrong and asked him to contact me to resolve. I have asked him to respond to me numerous times and he is not answerin my emails or contacting me but he continues to bash me on this thread which is strange. I have paid him back in the past which he has admitted to, but now his story has changed and all off a sudden i owe him 200 more. I dont even care im trying to resolve everything. but he can email me and well continue from there.
Thank you to everyone else who has been supportive.
@creativeapps said:
JohnPapiomitis I am talking about $200 which I sent you 2nd time. First time you dont have money so max sent money behalf of you. And 2nd time you didn't gave my money back.
@JohnPapiomitis Ok let me know where I give you my paypal email and you send my $200? And finish this chapter
@CodeWizard if private message conversation work with johnpapiomitis than why should I writing here? I am asking him email address only. Once he give his email id then I am moving forward.
@Socks, I don't think @Thunder_Child and @Armelline have decided anything, or are taking John's version as fact. They are only asking questions, quite understandably.
It would probably be helpful to have a neutral party (perhaps you, since you say you have been involved in helping resolve this in the past) who would have a look at their PayPal histories and ascertain what actually happened.
The fact is, that nobody here (except John and CreativeApps) know the full truth. You have had experience with both of them in the past, based on which you are siding with CreativeApps. Since @Thunder_Child and @Armelline don't have the same experience you do, they are simply treating everything said on equal footing.
The point isn't to paint any of them as the bad person (I don't really believe in such black and white categories anyway), but to get to the truth and get it resolved. If John openly offered to pay people back what he owes them, showing willingness to at least financially undo the damage he undeniably caused, but then responded to a request by saying that he thinks that money was returned (and had documentation), that warrants looking into.
@CodeWizard said:
creativeapps Please take this "owed money" conversation to private messages. We don't need to see all that drama here. Thanks!
If that is the case, you should really do away with paid services being allowed (posted) on the forums then. Posting an issue is about the only recourse an individual has that has been ripped off by another member.
@pHghost ...or maybe @creativeapps just wanted to help make sure fellow users on the forums didn't end up getting themselves into the same situation? So trying to protect other users...
In the end though, it does now need to be taken private... and not dragged out in public. The GS staff don't need to be wasting time having to police the forums, they've got enough other stuff to be getting on with...
@Chunkypixels said:
maybe creativeapps just wanted to help make sure fellow users on the forums didn't end up getting themselves into the same situation? So trying to protect other users...
That would be fair enough, BUT: John isn't asking for paid work, instead he is offering to repay what he owes and do free work to make amends.
I come across staunch unwillingness to forgive so often (not speaking of the Forums, in general), and it saddens me.
If it's true that John owes him nothing, then indeed it has turned the thread on its head. It does seem unlikely that Paypal wouldn't have returned the money. But as you say, so far this is one person's word against another. Hence, "if true".
I don't think we'll ever know the full story or what really happened, and I'm certainly not taking sides.
@Armelline said:
But as you say, so far this is one person's word against another. Hence, "if true".
>
I don't think we'll ever know the full story or what really happened, and I'm certainly not taking sides.
Agreed, we can only go on what's been said, like I say I was privy to some of this at the time, but ultimately it's got noting to do with me, I just thought creativeapps was getting a bit of a bad deal here, but maybe this thread is better off with less people taking part . . . so I'm going to find me a nice 'how do you make an egg roll down a hill' thread
Reading through all this mumble jumble, seems to me like @JohnPapiomitis is still trying to play victim, not sure why anyone should take his words seriously.
@Lovejoy hahaha not playing a victim at all. The fact i said he got his money back from paypal has absolutly nothing to do with it. Im still trying to pay him %100 percent but i can only bite my tongue for so long though being judged by people who have no idea about anything. No one needs to take my word about anything at all, the whole point of the thread was admitting i was wrong and compensating people i owe. But instead of responding to me email so i can send money a certain someone isnt answering and just bashing me on here. But regardless not sure what word there even is to take serious. Ive completly admitted i was wrong and messed up, its my fault, and i owe people and just trying to recompensate people and get back involved.
This got so off track my email is here for anyone who needs to contact me again papiomitis@yahoo.com
Comments
Thanks socks. I assumed it was a bad situation but did not know the details.
I thought I had a win win win idea.
John gets work and a restart of credibility.
I get some work done.
Creative apps gets his 200$.
I'm old and my gut says this is only going to bring problems and trouble to me.
So I have a young guy who needs the money.
Thanks
First off thank you so so much for everyone who has welcomed me back so far and given me kind words. My email again is papiomitis@yahoo.com for anyone who needs/wants to contact me, anyone i owe work too, ect. Im tryin to do anything to build back up my reputation so anyone who needs free work done help ect please contact me.
@creativeapps first off if you dont remember you received your money back threw paypal. I have all the documentation. but that doesnt even matter at this point i will still compensate you however you feel will be necessary again i just find it weird you come on here and stay bashing me but have yet to contact me. I understand your frustration completly i was 100% in the wrong i just dont think you understand what i was going threw. I grew up in foster care and group homes and at that time i lost the only people i ever had in my life, and lost everything in the process, and lost my will to live. So work was the last thing on my mind. Again ive been waiting for you to contact me.
And again thank you so much to everyone else who has welcomed me back, i love this community and so look forward to being a part of again.
If true, that's a hell of a twist. Talk about turning this thread on its head!
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Holy smokes...again ! @creativeapps is this true you haven't contacted him other than through this forum thread? That he did pay you back ? Who's the bad guy here really ?
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@JohnPapiomitis I am talking about $200 which I sent you 2nd time. First time you dont have money so max sent money behalf of you. And 2nd time you didn't gave my money back.
Ok let me know where I give you my paypal email and you send my $200? And finish this chapter
I'm not sure why creativeapps is being treated like this in this thread ?
There are two people in this conversation, presenting differing versions of what happened, why have you taken John's version as fact ? If creativeapps responded saying that John had tried to kidnapp him and eat his body ! (lol) would you then say "OMG! That's really turned the thread on its head again' - or would you take a more measured look at what is going on here, and assess the claims, the context, and the characters ?!
Why have you decided what John has said is accurate and what creativeapps has said is untrue ?
This thread is bizarre, there is someone who I watched, day-by-day, being ripped off, someone who tried and tried and tried to resolve the issue - and doing it incredibly politely and reasonably - I was kept up to date with a lot of the correspondence at the time, and there is a second person who not only admits to having ripped off and stolen from people, with mugshots posted from his arrest for other (alleged) crimes . . . and everyone seems to want to paint creativeapps as the bad person.
All John has to do is say 'hey I paid you that back' - and that seems enough for everyone to turn on creativeapps !?
Absolutely strange.
Yes, creativeapps tried to contact John, he emailed him, he PM'd him, he started threads, all were ignored, the threads closed, he contacted SaladStraightShooter and was told he could do nothing, creativeapps had a friend who lived near John, so he asked his friend to see if he could make contact . . . . . basically he tried every possible way to contact John and was ignored, and rejected at each turn . . . . John pops up, says 'all is good' . . . everyone starts clapping . . . then says 'creativeapps didn't contact me' everyone starts booing at creativeapps, lol
Ridiculous.
I'm still confused as to why there is this appetite to see creativeapps as the bad guy here, maybe it was the tone he took in this thread (perfectly understandable given what went on), maybe it's that people love a redemption story, they are seductive to people, and creativeapps comes across as the guy keeping John down ? Whatever it is, it's screwed up !! Lol
@Armelline & @Thunder_Child check video proof in your private message.
@creativeapps Please take this "owed money" conversation to private messages. We don't need to see all that drama here. Thanks!
@codewizard thank you. this thread is to apologize and get back into the community. not to have a debate with him. @socks ill kindly ask you to stop bashing me as well. the stuff with creative apps doesnt involve you honestly so i please ask you to refrain. People here know who i really am and know the sketchy stuff creative apps has done in the past. You guys keep wanting to bring up my past, well im sorry we all havent had parents who raised us and have had good lives and childhoods and have had to do stuff we are ashamed off to live. you have NO idea what i have been threw in my life.
@creativeapps is being sketchy. I admitted my wrong and asked him to contact me to resolve. I have asked him to respond to me numerous times and he is not answerin my emails or contacting me but he continues to bash me on this thread which is strange. I have paid him back in the past which he has admitted to, but now his story has changed and all off a sudden i owe him 200 more. I dont even care im trying to resolve everything. but he can email me and well continue from there.
Thank you to everyone else who has been supportive.
Quote anything I've said that you think is unfair or inaccurate ?
@Socks @JohnPapiomitis Okay okay... pretty please take this argument to private messages? Thanks!
@JohnPapiomitis Ok let me know where I give you my paypal email and you send my $200? And finish this chapter
@CodeWizard if private message conversation work with johnpapiomitis than why should I writing here? I am asking him email address only. Once he give his email id then I am moving forward.
@Socks, I don't think @Thunder_Child and @Armelline have decided anything, or are taking John's version as fact. They are only asking questions, quite understandably.
It would probably be helpful to have a neutral party (perhaps you, since you say you have been involved in helping resolve this in the past) who would have a look at their PayPal histories and ascertain what actually happened.
The fact is, that nobody here (except John and CreativeApps) know the full truth. You have had experience with both of them in the past, based on which you are siding with CreativeApps. Since @Thunder_Child and @Armelline don't have the same experience you do, they are simply treating everything said on equal footing.
The point isn't to paint any of them as the bad person (I don't really believe in such black and white categories anyway), but to get to the truth and get it resolved. If John openly offered to pay people back what he owes them, showing willingness to at least financially undo the damage he undeniably caused, but then responded to a request by saying that he thinks that money was returned (and had documentation), that warrants looking into.
@creativeapps I don't know what to tell you about this, but what I do know is that our public forums aren't the place for fighting about money owed.
@JohnPapiomitis send your email id so I can send you my paypal id.
If that is the case, you should really do away with paid services being allowed (posted) on the forums then. Posting an issue is about the only recourse an individual has that has been ripped off by another member.
[Missed a couple messages in between, not relevant anymore.]
@pHghost ...or maybe @creativeapps just wanted to help make sure fellow users on the forums didn't end up getting themselves into the same situation? So trying to protect other users...
In the end though, it does now need to be taken private... and not dragged out in public. The GS staff don't need to be wasting time having to police the forums, they've got enough other stuff to be getting on with...
That would be fair enough, BUT: John isn't asking for paid work, instead he is offering to repay what he owes and do free work to make amends.
I come across staunch unwillingness to forgive so often (not speaking of the Forums, in general), and it saddens me.
.
If it's true that John owes him nothing, then indeed it has turned the thread on its head. It does seem unlikely that Paypal wouldn't have returned the money. But as you say, so far this is one person's word against another. Hence, "if true".
I don't think we'll ever know the full story or what really happened, and I'm certainly not taking sides.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
>
Agreed, we can only go on what's been said, like I say I was privy to some of this at the time, but ultimately it's got noting to do with me, I just thought creativeapps was getting a bit of a bad deal here, but maybe this thread is better off with less people taking part . . . so I'm going to find me a nice 'how do you make an egg roll down a hill' thread
Reading through all this mumble jumble, seems to me like @JohnPapiomitis is still trying to play victim, not sure why anyone should take his words seriously.
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@Lovejoy hahaha not playing a victim at all. The fact i said he got his money back from paypal has absolutly nothing to do with it. Im still trying to pay him %100 percent but i can only bite my tongue for so long though being judged by people who have no idea about anything. No one needs to take my word about anything at all, the whole point of the thread was admitting i was wrong and compensating people i owe. But instead of responding to me email so i can send money a certain someone isnt answering and just bashing me on here. But regardless not sure what word there even is to take serious. Ive completly admitted i was wrong and messed up, its my fault, and i owe people and just trying to recompensate people and get back involved.
This got so off track my email is here for anyone who needs to contact me again papiomitis@yahoo.com
and again thanks to everyone who has been kind
Are you joking or serious? @Socks is awesome!
We are all friends it is a joke.
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Haha. I didn't see the pages after that comment.
@JohnPapiomitis Welcome back! I have never had any interaction with you but it sounds like you have had a hard time. I wish you good luck
I never joke, I am german.
@Socks ' subversive thaumaturgical formulas bely his true malevolent nature! And he does this in plain sight!
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Lol. He is so sinister his insults are invisable to the naked eye.
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