Hey Gendai, GameSalad is lacking essential GAMING functionality!!!!

dknelldknell Member Posts: 48
edited November -1 in Working with GS (Mac)
This post turned out much bigger than I had intended. If you read the whole thing, it gets into the reason (or my theory) why these "features" are missing.

Yes, I realize GS is beta and I know these missing features have been discussed before...

* Pause. The work-around by quantumsheep and codemonkey "works" but really cripples games and slows development.
* Z-axis positioning/movement. At least for the camera. I'm not a game engine expert, and I realize that GS is a 2D engine, but I see a lot of 2D games that zoom in and out without resizing images.
* Leaderboard. Almost all modern games have a way to publish scores.
* Arrays or database access. This one is not necessarily a "gaming" feature but it would give us so much more power in development and allow us to make very robust games.

There have been a lot of GREAT games to come out of GameSalad - you guys are extremely talented game developers! But, in order to take it to the next level we at least need the functionality that is included in most of the games on the market today.

Now I know that some features may be rolled into the Pro membership, but as I mentioned before (http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=9166#post-65004), I wouldn't mind paying a small amount for each feature.

Why don't we have these features right now? I say it's because of Gendai's business model. They charge for a tool, actually 2. Adding features to GS Pro doesn't make them more money, unless a new customer thinks that feature is so awesome they need to "subscribe" to it for $2000/year.

We all know that it all comes down to money. Gendai needs to make money on this product, which is fine. But how many people actually buy the Pro membership - I can't imagine too many. I think they should try to make MORE smaller ticket products instead of selling a few big ticket products like the Pro membership.

Let's think about that for a minute. This would benefit EVERYONE involved - Gendai makes more sales on a regular basis and we get more features - faster (because they want to make more money). I can't think of a single feature that would make me shell out $2000 every year. There are certainly a couple that I would pay $100 or $200 for.

So what does money have to do with "essential gaming functionality"? I'd be willing to bet that the reason pause or "preserve previous scene" was taken out is because they want to make it a "Pro" feature. I'd up the ante and say that's also the reasoning behind the majority of forthcoming "big" features. Damn that business model of selling a tool!!!

HEY GENDAI, WANT MORE MONEY???? HERE'S HOW:
Besides the À la carte features I was talking about, another idea is to make a library of game assets - sounds, images, sprites, fonts... This would work like the Loop browser in GarageBand and could be built into GS. Want to make it even better (and make MORE money)? Allow purchases and downloads in GS also! You could even let developers submit content to this "Asset Store" and take a cut. Take it a step further and sell behaviors and actions in the Asset Store.

Now that you're rolling in all this money from the Asset Store, you can make GS free for everyone which brings even more customers that can purchase these assets. Oh, and you can remove all the red tape from your feature approval process because you no longer need a way to monetize them.

This is just my opinion.

Dave
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Comments

  • firemaplegamesfiremaplegames Member Posts: 3,211
    @dave: On my wall, I have a demo showing how to manipulate the camera. It will let you zoom in and out without resizing the images. UtopianGames' excellent new game 'Bumps' showcases this beautifully.

    I realize that doesn't solve all the issues, but it addresses one of them at least...
  • DimensionGamesDimensionGames PRO Posts: 993
    Leader Boards can be achieved i think im going to try and build one this afternoon :) I will post back when finished :)

    Possesive Gaming
  • dknelldknell Member Posts: 48
    Thanks firemaplegames and PossesiveGaming,
    I know that work-arounds have been hacked together, but let's say that Gendai adds Z-axis camera control, pause, or leaderboards in a future version then all of our hacked games will either break or will need a hefty overhaul. I am all for hacking when necessary, but I guess my point of the original post is that these "essential" gaming functions may be held back because of Gendai's business model of selling a tool as opposed to selling features.

    @Possesive, how can you make leaderboards without network connectivity (without a Pro membership)?
  • DimensionGamesDimensionGames PRO Posts: 993
    Oh sorry I thought you meant a local leader board! :L You can with Pro membership?? I want pro membership... Sorry I misunderstood what you meant!

    Cheers Possesive Gaming.
  • HachikoHachiko Member Posts: 330
    I would just be happy with social network support like openfeint.
    The camera is easy to zoom, rotate and such. I don't feel the need for array right now.
    For me, leaderboard and such is what gs is really lacking (other than performance, that can get better). I mean, every app I have on my iphone has openfeint support.
    Not to mention facebook or twitter support. Those thing seems the least in every app nowadays.
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    dknell said:
    I'd be willing to bet that the reason pause or "preserve previous scene" was taken out is because they want to make it a "Pro" feature. I'd up the ante and say that's also the reasoning behind the majority of forthcoming "big" features. Damn that business model of selling a tool!!!

    I think that's inaccurate. From the way I understand the situation, the preserve scene was dropped because it used too much memory and hurt performance. From the way I understand the situation, performance was dramatically increased after that feature was removed.
    dknell said:
    @Possesive, how can you make leaderboards without network connectivity (without a Pro membership)?

    I don't have pro, but I think it is possible to make a leaderboard with the "OpenURL" behavior. A PHP script could process the data contained in the link. This link would need to be obscured somehow, to discourage cheating. It's not the best, but I think it's possible.

    I understand the main theme. Pro is not really worth $1999. It's a huge risk. I've been seriously considering upgrading, but it's just too expensive. It seems like I could lose a lot of money, or just break even, by upgrading to Pro.
  • dknelldknell Member Posts: 48
    Photics,
    I agree with you about the memory consumption of the preserve previous scene option.

    Don't get me wrong - I think GameSalad is a great tool. I just think that it would benefit everyone involved if it was monetized a little differently.

    I'll be honest though, if I made a game with GS and it made a lot of money, I'd probably hire an xcode developer to rewrite my game in Objective-C and have the opportunity to take advantage of all the iPhone SDK features and other libraries like OpenFeint. That, to me, would be a better value for my money.

    On the other hand, I may not be so quick to jump ship if the $2000 hurdle was gone and the features were sold in some sort of store. I could be totally wrong about this, but I feel that the features would be released more rapidly under this model. And that's sort of what would keep me on board longer.
  • DimensionGamesDimensionGames PRO Posts: 993
    Totally agree with you there dknell! I think in the mean time we will just have to make work arounds :) or really try and push this idea :) Petition? :L
  • dknelldknell Member Posts: 48
    I added a poll to this post. Maybe we can get some traction...
  • DimensionGamesDimensionGames PRO Posts: 993
    $99 isn't that unreasonable for a few features :) they have to make money some where!
  • dknelldknell Member Posts: 48
    @CreativeSolution - EXACTLY!!! I love it!
  • firemaplegamesfiremaplegames Member Posts: 3,211
    @photics: you cannot create a leaderboard with the openURL behavior. You cannot send a dynamic URL.

    It's a fixed text attribute. You cannot concatenate attributes to the end of it.
  • BarkBarkCoBarkBarkCo Member Posts: 1,400
    @FMG, I was thinking along the same lines as Photics, and was getting annoyed that there was not more detail on the open URL behavior online...Thanks for clearing that up!
  • scitunesscitunes Member, Sous Chef Posts: 4,047
    I have a game that pans in and out perfectly (works really close to angry birds). Not using a "hack" just the camera attributes in an unlocked instance in a scene.

    Leader boards will probably be a non-issue when gamecenter goes live (I bet anything GS will be onboard from the close to the beginning).

    Pause - Not as much of an issue with iOS 4.0 multitasking, but still would be nice.

    Arrays - I agree - we need them.
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    firemaplegames said:
    @photics: you cannot create a leaderboard with the openURL behavior. You cannot send a dynamic URL.

    It's a fixed text attribute. You cannot concatenate attributes to the end of it.

    Wow, that's surprising.

    http://gamesalad.com/wiki/behaviors_reference:open_url

    A lot more could be done with that behavior with the ability to modify the value. It's still not impossible though. Heh, just create a lot of copies of the open url behavior, then make a leaderboard based on progress. When players beat the game, they can enter their name in the website, confirming that they beat the game.
  • firemaplegamesfiremaplegames Member Posts: 3,211
    @photics: yeah, but remember that the openURL quits your app and goes out to the web each time you use it. It's a little distracting!

    I agree that it could be more powerful. I am not aware of all the issues involved though.
  • PhoticsPhotics Member Posts: 4,172
    firemaplegames said:
    @photics: yeah, but remember that the openURL quits your app and goes out to the web each time you use it. It's a little distracting!

    I agree that it could be more powerful. I am not aware of all the issues involved though.

    Wow, it quits the app?! That's bad.
  • dknelldknell Member Posts: 48
    Sounds like open URL was intended specifically for cross promoting your other games or maybe support URLs...
  • victorkin11victorkin11 Member Posts: 251
    some behave to get iphone version, or date & time .... , I think than not so hard to do, and it won't cause too much memory!
  • Koda89Koda89 Member Posts: 275
    One thing I personally think GameSalad needs is a way to randomize text. Sure we can randomize numbers, but one of the games I want to make needs me to randomize text.

    Hell, I can't even finish this one game because of some of the areas GameSalad falls short in.....
  • chosenonestudioschosenonestudios Member Posts: 1,714
    Koda89 said:
    One thing I personally think GameSalad needs is a way to randomize text. Sure we can randomize numbers, but one of the games I want to make needs me to randomize text.

    Hell, I can't even finish this one game because of some of the areas GameSalad falls short in.....

    You can do random text
  • Koda89Koda89 Member Posts: 275
    chosenonestudios said:
    You can do random text

    How? And I don't want some long reach around technique.
  • chosenonestudioschosenonestudios Member Posts: 1,714
    You have to program it in though...

    Pick random(1,10)

    when = 1 display text hello
    when = 2 display text good bye
    when = 9 display text stfu (haha)
    etc.
  • Koda89Koda89 Member Posts: 275
    chosenonestudios said:
    You have to program it in though...

    Pick random(1,10)

    when = 1 display text hello
    when = 2 display text good bye
    when = 9 display text stfu (haha)
    etc.

    That's what I don't want.....

    I mean have it as simple as we have it with random numbers. Just use Random and input the different text it can pick from. That would be useful.
  • chosenonestudioschosenonestudios Member Posts: 1,714
    Koda89 said:
    That's what I don't want.....

    I mean have it as simple as we have it with random numbers. Just use Random and input the different text it can pick from. That would be useful.

    But if you have to imput the text anyway, thats only a tiny bit more work.....
  • firemaplegamesfiremaplegames Member Posts: 3,211
    @koda89: What you are talking about requires Arrays. Which is one of the requests. Hopefully they can add them at some point!
  • Koda89Koda89 Member Posts: 275
    chosenonestudios said:
    But if you have to imput the text anyway, thats only a tiny bit more work.....

    A tiny bit? Try a lot. It's taking me close to an hour just to input this work around with just the 26 letters....
  • chosenonestudioschosenonestudios Member Posts: 1,714
    Koda89 said:
    A tiny bit? Try a lot. It's taking me close to an hour just to input this work around with just the 26 letters....

    I'm not exactly sure what your doing, but you can't be doing that right... Copy and paste the rules, change the attribute and your text, 5 min later... done... (26 letters, I assume you meant words?) At the MAX it should take you 5min...
  • Koda89Koda89 Member Posts: 275
    chosenonestudios said:
    I'm not exactly sure what your doing, but you can't be doing that right... Copy and paste the rules, change the attribute and your text, 5 min later... done... (26 letters, I assume you meant words?) At the MAX it should take you 5min...

    Nope, 26 letters there is no way I'll be able to do words until GameSalad does arrays. And I had to change it up, because what I'm doing is, basically a Typing of the Dead kind of game, meaning you kill the enemies by typing the text they are displaying. Problem is, I DID try the way you showed several days ago, didn't work because I had it set to where all the enemies would display the same text attribute, so doing it that way would make them all display the same thing, so they would all die when you entered in the text. So I changed it to where I created just one common enemy(a generic zombie), and made 26 copies of it, each copy displaying their own text, so instead of randomizing text, the spawning actor randomizes which zombie actor shows up. For example, it randomly picks between 1 through 26 and say it picks 1, the zombie it'll spawn will be displaying Q(since Q is the first letter on the keyboard).

    This took close to an hour, because even WITH copy and pasting, it was taking forever.
  • chosenonestudioschosenonestudios Member Posts: 1,714
    Oh your making words out of letters! I though it was just random! My apologies! Yeah we do need arrays, sorry for making you type all that out just to educate the illiterate! Haha. Sorry, again :/
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