GameSalad

State of GameSalad on 7-19-2017 (Web Version Semi-open Beta)

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  • fmakawafmakawa Posts: 554Member

    @adent42 @ForumNinja have you fixed the problem regarding large projects that don't open properly?

  • IceboxIcebox Posts: 1,472Member
    edited November 2017

    Are there any updates ? I think we should get a notification when you update the web version so we know if there is something new. I keep checking everyday if bugs are fixed or if there are new behaviours.

  • MusicBoutiqueMusicBoutique Posts: 78Member, PRO

    @squirrel42 said:
    @adent42 @Braydon_SFX High Sierra was released September 25 and there is still not a working version of Gamesalad for this release and with little likelihood of any updates to the desktop version beyond the odd grindingly slow 'fix' going forward, this seems to be dead in the water. Web creator is not at present fit for purpose, I still cannot load any of my existing games in a meaningful way (it seems this will be a long time off, if ever practically speaking, be anywhere near a 'pro' tool). Therefore it occurs to me that you do not have a viable product to offer at all at present. My subscription is due on the 5th of November and beyond the fact that, due to you publishing model, it is a requirement for me to have if I am to be able to maintain my existing games I respectfully ask what, in your opinion, will I be charged $299 for?..

    seconded

  • PhilipCCPhilipCC Encounter Bay, South AustraliaPosts: 1,362Member, BASIC

    @squirrel42 said:
    @adent42 @Braydon_SFX High Sierra was released September 25 and there is still not a working version of Gamesalad for this release and with little likelihood of any updates to the desktop version beyond the odd grindingly slow 'fix' going forward, this seems to be dead in the water. Web creator is not at present fit for purpose, I still cannot load any of my existing games in a meaningful way (it seems this will be a long time off, if ever practically speaking, be anywhere near a 'pro' tool). Therefore it occurs to me that you do not have a viable product to offer at all at present. My subscription is due on the 5th of November and beyond the fact that, due to you publishing model, it is a requirement for me to have if I am to be able to maintain my existing games I respectfully ask what, in your opinion, will I be charged $299 for?..

    Thirded! If there were such a word. :D

    I must admit that after so many years of loyal support (Pro Subscription) I'm starting to have my doubts about continuing.

    Apple reminded me yesterday to make sure my apps were updated to be compatible with the new iOS and new iPhones. How are we supposed to do that?

    Right now we can't use the new tool to make final builds and we can't use the old tool with High Sierra! :#

    I have three projects partly completed since this time last year that I just shelved until GS sorted itself out and some of the promised developments and fixes came to fruition. Frankly, I've been better off spending my time producing video and maintaining existing clients websites than trying to build games using a system that's so plagued with problems and limitations.

    The only thing that keeps me here is this Forum and the talent of its contributing members. I'm astounded by what some of you manage to accomplish.

    However, it is starting to seem an extravagance paying a monthly fee for that privilege.

  • IceboxIcebox Posts: 1,472Member

    I used it for quite some time and i struggled too , these are my issues at the moment.

    • I still cant drag an actor and place it on a specific layer.
    • I cant drag a rule and scroll up or down in the logic stack.
    • No keyboard shortcut to copy and paste (alt+drag).
    • Html5 preview bugs that are still there
    • Cant use custom collisions/fonts.
    • Not every project gets imported properly between desktop and web version.
    • Behaviours are still missing , Play music is still not available !
    • Behaviour blocks are huge , i cant see properly when nesting rules it just confuses me for some reason and slows me down.
    • Each time i try to edit a prototype or navigate back to the scene , takes 1-3 seconds.
    • The scene editor is slow when dragging and placing actors especially on bigger projects. This one is the killer for me , I cant work on a slow scene editor dragging actors is choppy everything is slow , i mentioned this earlier and im glad they are aware of it .

    The web version is still not ready for general usage as adent42 mentioned earlier in this thread so ill give it more time and still hope that it will be better in the future.

  • MusicBoutiqueMusicBoutique Posts: 78Member, PRO

    @pHghost said:

    Which is why there should be a priority to make the current version work on High Sierra and fix problems with ad placement on iPhone X. GameSalad taking their time to get the Web Tool just right is absolutely fine, as long as there is a working desktop tool to work on and publish with.

    Exactly. And if gamesalad team truly wishes to abandon the desktop version then ok, but they need to give us at least 12 months notice and continue to maintain it during that time. For example let us know that until Dec 2018 it will be kept updated to a reasonable degree and no longer after that. That way it doesnt completely mess up the whole community and at least gives us enough time to prepare alternatives for keeping our existing apps alive.

  • pHghostpHghost London, UKPosts: 2,282Member

    @MusicBoutique said:
    they need to give us at least 12 months notice and continue to maintain it

    I think they mentioned that there would definitely be a notice period before the desktop versions are deprecated. I mean, don't expect new features there, and probably only the most app-breaking fixes, but at least there should be the possibility to continue.

    That said, so far the online version isn't there with feature parity, so I wouldn't worry too much in any case.

  • ToqueToque Posts: 1,161Member, PRO

    I agree @Icebox, @Two.E. I am determined to make one small game with it before deciding if its worth the cost. Alternatives. I don't hate it, don't love it.

    My petty problems with it.

    • The preview play button is small and tucked neatly in the far right corner. Looks nice there but why??? I use a hundred times a day why not keep it in centre and make it bigger????
    • Cant drag and change position of actors in list.......
    • The edit prototype actor button "here" is really small and not obvious......WHY?WHY? That one drives me nuts. I click on it a hundred times a day so lets hide it and make it really really small........
    • *I miss the "x" delete button for behaviours...... Have to hit delete key.
    • *How do you add multiple conditions in rules?? I couldn't figure it out.....
    • *No button labels for scene, actors, tables in "compact mode". Just blank buttons.....
    • In compact mode three rows of actors in list would be nice. 4 ??
    • *Different coloured rules would be nice and easier to read. Colours in general.....
    • *Code blocks are too large. They could be compressed 20% with no loss.
    • *The extra click moving between actor and scene editor. There is a huge empty bar on top. I prefer the click and scroll down to the scene I want.
    • *Seems like there is little weight given to frequency of use. Things used heavily could be made more convenient. For instance the publish button is bigger and closer than the play preview button......... A found a few other things like that as well.

    ..
    Like I said, I need to make one small game with it to really decide. Not totally fair to judge until its finished either. But GS was in beta for how many years? I was excited for the possibilities of GS 2.0. I do like the search button, viewing options etc. But then I ask myself "could I do another large project with this?".
    .
    Maybe 3 features added I can appreciate over the old version. Search, zoom, viewing options. I might discover more as I use it in 2018.
    .
    Community doesn't seem overly excited about it so thats concerning to me. Maybe they are like me and waiting until its fully functional to give it an honest go?

    • I still cant drag an actor and place it on a specific layer.
    • I cant drag a rule and scroll up or down in the logic stack.
    • No keyboard shortcut to copy and paste (alt+drag).
    • Html5 preview bugs that are still there
    • Cant use custom collisions/fonts.
    • Not every project gets imported properly between desktop and web version.
    • Behaviours are still missing , Play music is still not available !
    • Behaviour blocks are huge , i cant see properly when nesting rules it just confuses me for some reason and slows me down.
    • Each time i try to edit a prototype or navigate back to the scene , takes 1-3 seconds.
    • The scene editor is slow when dragging and placing actors especially on bigger projects. This one is the killer for me , I cant work on a slow scene editor dragging actors is choppy everything is slow , i mentioned this earlier and im glad they are aware of it .

    The web version is still not ready for general usage as adent42 mentioned earlier in this thread so ill give it more time and still hope that it will be better in the future.

  • tatiangtatiang Posts: 11,313Member, Sous Chef, PRO, Senior Sous-Chef
    edited November 2017

    @Toque There's a history of GameSalad developing their tools in ways that seem to go against common design aspects. I don't really understand it but it happened with the desktop version of Creator, it happened with Graphene, and it's happening with the web version of Creator. They've had very skilled graphic designers weigh in on how to improve their tools and... they either don't seem to care or aren't able to implement the suggested changes. It's been years like this and the pattern is that they don't reach out to ask (enough) what might improve the tools that we all use and they don't make changes based on the information they do receive.

    I know that's a blanket statement and they are constantly improving the tools in various ways in part based on community input but it's a little ridiculous at this point that you're having to point out things like that about a tool that's been in development for many years (web-based or not). And with the desktop Creator, not having features like zoom, snap-to-grid, window memory (how many times a day do I open an actor from Scene->Layers, press the Back button and end up at Game->Actors instead of back at Scene->Layers?), etc. in a tool that's been under development for years. It's just something I have great concerns about. Why weren't those things implemented/fixed sooner?

    I've lost faith when it comes to the web version of Creator. I looked at it when it was first released and my first thought was "well, that doesn't look very useable but it's only a first version." But unfortunately, as I said, I've seen that the first version is often 90% similar to the polished version. I'd assume it to be maybe 60% similar taking into account all of the feedback provided on these forums but history hasn't played out that way... Graphene changed in only slight ways from day one even though it was difficult to use and inefficient in many ways that Creator was also. And yeah, it was an amazing tool in a lot of ways, too. That's not to say Creator isn't also powerful and amazing but... it could be so much more.

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  • SocksSocks London, UK.Posts: 12,821Member
    edited November 2017

    @tatiang said:
    It's been years like this and the pattern is that they don't reach out to ask (enough) what might improve the tools that we all use and they don't make changes based on the information they do receive.

    Yep, it's always been this way, from GS to Graphene to GSweb, suggestions are generally ignored, I think the last real UI victory was the years-long battle to have the default text colour changed from white, or maybe having actors placed on whole number value positions rather than sub-pixel values . . . these small victories for the users took - literally - years of petitioning. I noticed someone recently brought up the issue where the 'Done' button on the text input tool is almost invisible to the point where a user would struggle to find it, I brought this up years ago, it's still the same, I think most users who've been around for a while know there's little point in even pointing this stuff out.

    @tatiang said:
    And with the desktop Creator, not having features like zoom, snap-to-grid, window memory (how many times a day do I open an actor from Scene->Layers, press the Back button and end up at Game->Actors instead of back at Scene->Layers?), etc. in a tool that's been under development for years. It's just something I have great concerns about. Why weren't those things implemented/fixed sooner?

    Strangely, and perhaps this is just my opinion, Creator has never struck me a priority for GameSalad, there always seems to be a more important focus, some shinning glittering future product just over the horizon, from a super fast Lua-Free version to Graphene to WebGS the focus never really seems to be on the core product, Creator ?

    @tatiang said:
    I've lost faith when it comes to the web version of Creator.

    Certainly in its present state - putting aside the currently missing features (which I'm sure will be implemented in time), the underlying design is slow, awkward to use, unresponsive and poorly laid out, it has also disappointingly inherited a lot of issues that people have been complaining about for years in GS.

  • ToqueToque Posts: 1,161Member, PRO

    @tatiang said:
    @Toque There's a history of GameSalad developing their tools in ways that seem to go against common design aspects. I don't really understand it

    ...................................................................................................................................
    Anyone who has looked at my games knows I have limited design skills! Just a few things I noticed that I found annoying and puzzling. I had to say something to be at peace with it.
    ,,,
    To be honest Im not sure GS asked for suggestions or critique? I felt like a jerk for posting criticism. Agitator. Maybe they contacted some long pro users and had input from them and did some testing there.

    I wish I had that search bar a long time ago........

  • ToqueToque Posts: 1,161Member, PRO

    That makes sense.

    There is probably good reasons for a lot of these choices but with no discussion or debate I would never know.

    @Socks said:

    @Toque said:
    *Code blocks are too large. They could be compressed 20% with no loss.

    As far as I'm aware this was done to allow GS to be used on tablets, the big blocks are so the fat fingered screen mashers can select blocks / value fields.

    I would have thought the best way would be to have a separate UI for desktops/laptops and one (with larger UI elements) for tablets.

    It doesn't seem like the best approach to me, basically compromising the UI for desktop / laptop users by simply making everything bigger so as to accommodate tablet users, there should be a separate tablet UI, not simply the desktop version with everything bigger (even for desktop users who don't need it), but a separate tablet UI designed for tablets.

  • fmakawafmakawa Posts: 554Member

    Beyond all of the above, we haven't any new update for months so we at least know what the progress pr lack thereof is. @adent42 @ForumNinja ??? I actually stopped my subscription about 3 months ago because I wasting cash whilst not working on anything. I'm restarting now because of a project but I'm worried about all this. I don't use a mac so I don't have High Sierra problems but I will have issues at publishing later so Its scary that since September there has been any effort (it seems) to fix the issues there. I'd rather have a good greater than have WebGS tbh.

  • BBEnkBBEnk Posts: 1,754Member, PRO

    it's just Gamesalad moving sideways again.

  • AlchimiaStudiosAlchimiaStudios Posts: 943Member, PRO
    edited November 2017

    Always a game of patience and cautious optimism with GS tool updates. And I mean, I understand, making game engines is hard work.

    Use it if it works for you right now, if not move on to a tool that has whatever is missing from GS. That's really what it comes down to in the end.

    @Adrenaline said:
    Long periods of silence from GS.
    Stirrings in the community.
    GS remains silent.
    The community starts grabbing pitchforks.
    Silence.
    The community is in outrage!
    GS peeks out from hiding to mumble a few vague words.
    The community is relieved! Everything is going to be okay guys, we knew it all along!
    Long periods of silence from GS.
    Stirrings in the community...

    By this pattern, someone from GS will be making an appearance soon with some encouraging words. Don't worry! :lol:

    Lol I read this like a Pokemon battle playing out.

    GS Staff uses Silence!
    It's not very effective...
    The Community begins to stir.

    GS Staff uses Silence!
    It's not very effective...
    The Community uses pitchfork!

    GS Staff uses Silence!
    It's not very effective...
    The Community uses Outrage!
    It's super effective!

    GS Staff uses Soothe
    The Community has fallen asleep..

    GS staff uses Silence!
    It's not very effective...
    The Community is fast alseep...

    GS staff uses Silence!
    It's not very effective...
    The Community has woken up!

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  • PhilipCCPhilipCC Encounter Bay, South AustraliaPosts: 1,362Member, BASIC
    edited November 2017

    @AlchimiaStudios said:
    Always a game of patience and cautious optimism with GS tool updates. And I mean, I understand, making game engines is hard work.

    Use it if it works for you right now, if not move on to a tool that has whatever is missing from GS. That's really what it comes down to in the end.

    So don't update your live games, because you can't, and watch as Apple removes them from the App Store? Not good enough! Those games are some people's only source of income.

    Lol I read this like a Pokemon battle playing out.

    GS Staff uses Silence!
    It's not very effective...
    The Community begins to stir.

    GS Staff uses Silence!
    It's not very effective...
    The Community uses pitchfork!

    GS Staff uses Silence!
    It's not very effective...
    The Community uses Outrage!
    It's super effective!

    GS Staff uses Soothe
    The Community has fallen asleep..

    GS staff uses Silence!
    It's not very effective...
    The Community is fast alseep...

    GS staff uses Silence!
    It's not very effective...
    The Community has woken up!

    Well GS had better wake up and smell the coffee, otherwise one day enough of us would have already left that they'll need to appoint a Receiver Manager as the revenue stream dries up. :(

  • AlchimiaStudiosAlchimiaStudios Posts: 943Member, PRO
    edited November 2017

    @PhilipCC said:

    @AlchimiaStudios said:
    Always a game of patience and cautious optimism with GS tool updates. And I mean, I understand, making game engines is hard work.

    Use it if it works for you right now, if not move on to a tool that has whatever is missing from GS. That's really what it comes down to in the end.

    So don't update your live games, because you can't, and watch as Apple removes them from the App Store? Not good enough! Those games are some people's only source of income.

    That's not what I said though...

    There are many many features I wish GS had, and some i'd even consider essential...but i'm being realistic with my expectations.

    If you want the most up to date and supported software GS is not that tool. But if you want easy to use software? Well it meets that criteria. So as a developer we need to realize this at some point and find the tool that fits our needs.

    After all, GS only provides us a tool. Not a promise of supporting every developers needs so that they can survive financially. Game development is a very very tough market after all.

    Besides. I don't think there is much preventing app store updates right now anyway, is there something in specific that is so broken you can't update your game?

    Also, when the community goes into a rage, it doesn't reflect on the tool well. The ranting gets bad sometimes, so much so that it could even hurt GS business... Which in turn hurts it's developers. You know?

    Don't shoot yourself in the foot just to prove a point.

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  • squirrel42squirrel42 Posts: 162Member, PRO

    @AlchimiaStudiosBesides I don't think there is much preventing app store updates right now anyway, is there something in specific that is so broken you can't update your game?

    Yes.

    GS currently does not work with High Sierra.
    Ad placement on iPhone X is incorrect and being rejected by Apple
    iPhone X specific screenshots/videos are not accepted as is not using the latest sdk

  • pHghostpHghost London, UKPosts: 2,282Member
    edited November 2017

    @squirrel42 said:
    Ad placement on iPhone X is incorrect and being rejected by Apple
    iPhone X specific screenshots/videos are not accepted as is not using the latest sdk

    Just don't build for iPhone X at the moment, not a problem. It's going to be a long time before supporting iPhone X natively will be necessary. From a revenue stream perspective, potential iPhone X users will be less than 1% of your total users, anyway. It's not like iPhone X arrived and suddenly all else is smoke.

  • AlchimiaStudiosAlchimiaStudios Posts: 943Member, PRO

    @squirrel42 said:
    @AlchimiaStudiosBesides I don't think there is much preventing app store updates right now anyway, is there something in specific that is so broken you can't update your game?

    Yes.

    GS currently does not work with High Sierra.

    Use an older OS? It's almost always a bad idea to upgrade your workstation to a major OS update while in active development.

    Ad placement on iPhone X is incorrect and being rejected by Apple

    Fair enough, but not every user is using ads.

    iPhone X specific screenshots/videos are not accepted as is not using the latest sdk

    I'm a bit confused on this one, care to elaborate? GS itself is not using the newest sdk so apps uploaded as apps wont be recognized as supporting iPhoneX? Or?

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  • pHghostpHghost London, UKPosts: 2,282Member

    @Hypnorabbit said:
    How much would Gamesalad cost? I'll buy the company and turn it into what it needs to be.

    If you have that kind of money, I'd recommend just starting your own company to build a product that actually work the way people would find useful. It would probably be cheaper and quicker.

  • The_Gamesalad_GuruThe_Gamesalad_Guru Posts: 9,901Member

    This is exactly why I cancelled my subscription and quit using GS a year ago. I knew once they were down to one coder and Codewizzard stopped working on the code, even part time, the software was going nowhere. As at @Socks said, this used to be a great forum and now it’s like an old town from the gold rush era. It is a shame because this software has so much potential but they just couldn’t get it together. I suspect, as in all ventures, money is the main issue.

  • squirrel42squirrel42 Posts: 162Member, PRO

    @The_Gamesalad_Guru Your input was a great loss too. As a matter of interest, what do you use to code now?

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