GameSalad

Changes I'd love to see

BunkerBunker Posts: 36Member, PRO

• Coloured group behaviours
(The ability to change the colour of the group tab to aid in organization)

• Selectable Layer Order on the Particle behaviour
(The ability to spawn particles before/after actor or front/back layer

• Save status of Tag sort in the inspector window
(when you change screens and return to inspector you have to select tag type every time)

•Folders in the Actors,Images and sounds
(to organize files when you have many)

•Change Layer behaviour
(To change the layer of the actor while the app is running without workarounds)

•Set default new actor
(To change the values of any new actors you make as the default eg:Moveable false/bounciness 0)

•Game level attributes viewable from any screen in the editor
(So you don't have to flip back and forth to add .game attributes)

•Allow over-scroll of rules
(allowing you to scroll the wall of rules up-past the upper bounds giving more space to work without nesting in groups)

would be great
what do you guys think?

Comments

  • BunkerBunker Posts: 36Member, PRO

    //Oh almost forgot~!

    • Spawn actor in grid behaviour
    (To spawn actors in a grid to be used with tables etc)

  • jamie_cjamie_c ImagineLabs.rocks Posts: 5,431Member, BASIC

    @tatiang said:

    @Bunker said:
    what do you guys think?

    I guess I've become that guy... I used to be all "rah rah" about GameSalad and I still think it's an amazing tool but... it's highly likely all of your suggestions will be ignored. The company is too busy working on the web tool and suggestions like yours -- which are quite valuable -- have been asked for repeatedly over years and years.

    Very disappointing, but true. :(

  • gatrifgatrif Posts: 54Member

    may be after 100 years will be ....

  • Braydon_SFXBraydon_SFX Posts: 9,008Member, Sous Chef, PRO, Bowlboy Sidekick GameSalad Employee

    I'll poke in here for a minute. As you know, we're busy at work with the online tool and it's really coming along. I know that personally, I'd love to see actor/image/attribute folders in the new tool. You may want to check it out and keep an eye out for some new features and changes for usability in the future. :)

  • SocksSocks London, UK.Posts: 12,821Member

    @Bunker said:
    what do you guys think?

    Some great ideas, all these suggestions (except for, perhaps, 'over-scroll of rules') have been repeatedly requested by users for the past 10 years or so, and they've all been ignored by GameSalad, your suggestions will be ignored too.

    I think the two main UI/usability victories for users over the years - after literally years of petitioning - were having actors dragged into a scene being placed on a whole pixel values, and changing the default text colour from white to black . . . two small, begrudgingly given, advances on UI/UX in 10 years :D which should give you some idea of how indifferent GameSalad are to user feedback.

  • SocksSocks London, UK.Posts: 12,821Member
    edited March 20

    @Braydon_SFX said:
    I'd love to see actor/image/attribute folders in the new tool.

    Why use folders when you could use some convoluted search / filtering system like Apple and Microsoft use with their operating systems . . . hold on, wait a minute . . . :)

    Joking aside, I think leaving UI decisions to coders results in less than optimal UI decisions, whereas a UI designer will give you a checkbox to select an option, right there in front of you, you tend to find a coder will bury the option in a menu accessed from an options panel, and when you open the menu you'll need to scroll around to find the option, and when you click on the option a sluggishly laggy animation will alert you to the fact that you've selected it . . . . I think this is often down to coders overthinking design choices, as well as simply wanting to use their skills as coders, if I've spent 6 years perfecting embedded functional scrolling menu systems I'm damn well going to put that skill to good use :D

    Anyhow, my point here is that I agree, I'd love to see folders too, it's such a proven concept, a concept familiar to the entire computer literate planet, it really is a no brainer, but last time I looked at the web tool GS had already started out down the path of some stupid arcane filtering system - like I suggest I suspect this might be a case of talented coders wanting to use those talents, like a taxi driver wanting to take the backroads to show you how skilled he is at offloading, it might take longer to get to where you're going, and you might come out of it with a back injury, but hey, anyone can drive down a straight road.

    This is a weird post, I think I might be saying 'get a UI designer* to design your UI'.

    *a real one, not one of the coder's girlfriends or a friend who is 'good a drawing'.

  • BunkerBunker Posts: 36Member, PRO
    edited March 21

    Hey guys thank you for the interest in this topic and voicing your feelings!

    When it comes to development of software that everyone uses, I feel there is always a problem with trying to please everyone. Group (A) will always want the opposite of Group (B) it seems. It's a challenge to get everyone on the same page!

    It's hard to prioritize changes based on feedback because of this. An interesting effect to think about really- and completely understandable. We also cannot forget about the "vision" of the developers. In the end, it's their call to implement features or not. After-all It's their baby and responsibility. Then there's that give an inch - they take a mile thing...

    Reminds me of an example from my past, back when I was helping out with one of those MMORPGS as a volunteer; Basically the players asked for something that took ten years to implement and by then it was too late. The players wanted something else! Ha!

    Successful changes occurred because they where relatively simple to implement without steep develop curves, using current resources. Basically value changes with game-play related stuff like balance. I like to think of these as 'Built-In' functions.. Players feel as if they have had an impact that way.

    The most I can do is bring up issues, clearly outlining the idea to establish a vague baseline and open lines of communication about the topic. If the idea is good enough and gets implemented thats great! If it doesn't - well it was an interesting adventure and learned a few things about what folks want!

    Remember; there is no good or bad feedback - only feedback. What makes feedback useful, is honesty. Taking the time to consider the return on recourses invested. Don't want to get into a demised-return situation that takes ten years to implement!

    ** Awesome to see that you are looking towards folders moving forward, I was concerned that maybe it would not be possible. - (was thinking there must be a reason theres no folders in there now, maybe needed for file communication??)

    And - outstanding with the online tool!! keep imp the good work! **

    Thank you guys for your input and I look forward to nerdin' out with you on the details!

    Play it forward

    Regards
    -Bunker

  • BunkerBunker Posts: 36Member, PRO

    @Socks said:

    @Braydon_SFX said:
    I'd love to see actor/image/attribute folders in the new tool. I think leaving UI decisions to coders results in less than optimal UI decisions, whereas a UI designer will give you a checkbox to select an option, right there in front of you, you tend to find a coder will bury the option in a menu accessed from an options panel, and when you open the menu you'll need to scroll around to find the option, and when you click on the option a sluggishly laggy animation will alert you to the fact that you've selected it

    Obviously one should be trying to think of all aspects. But I realize, since the scope of games has become so large, things need to be compartmentalized in order to get things out the door and on the shelf before the holidays. leads to some funny and frustrating trends don't you think?

    That balancing act - trying to be unique while still offering a familiar, discoverable, environment.. Sometimes it is fun to learn a new UI, sometimes it's nice to just know how to use it. At least we have the option to fall-back on the trusted ways if need-be eh?

    Since I've mostly worked alone on my projects, learning from paper phone books and eventually You-Tube (YAY) I've had to think of it like "how do I make myself/game look bette, showcasing strong points while obscuring the messy wires.. Lucky I don't have to worry about showcasing someone else's effort at the moment!

    **PS please kill that monochromatic aberrations!

    Thanks for the input!

    -Bunker

  • SocksSocks London, UK.Posts: 12,821Member

    @Bunker said:
    Obviously one should be trying to think of all aspects. But I realize, since the scope of games has become so large, things need to be compartmentalized in order to get things out the door and on the shelf before the holidays. leads to some funny and frustrating trends don't you think?

    I don't really think these are decisions made under pressure, GameSalad has had a decade, ten years, to implement even the most basic UI features, like snap-to-grid, folders, windows that retain their state when you navigate away from them (example: "Save status of Tag sort in the inspector window"), copy and paste that retains the copied object on the clipboard, or even the ability to drag-select more than one actor in a scene (and dozens of other basic features) . . . and they've failed to implement any of them, I couldn't say for sure what the problem is, it could be lots of things, but after 10 years it'd be odd to claim the issue was a lack of time.

  • BunkerBunker Posts: 36Member, PRO
    edited March 21

    It's one of those - It is what it is things..as always.. it's not the idea that is thought of, it's the ones that are executed well.

    To me Gamesalad always was that free game maker that crashes a-lot and felt like a collage project to use.. nevertheless I spent far too many hours playing around and not really working towards any projects (mostly due to instability and lack of knowledge)
    Honestly I'm surprised to see that Gamesalad hasn't gone through a re-branding and name change! Sorry but the name is Goofy! but suddenly hungry for salad

    I feel like Gamesalad now is far better then it was a while back- and worth paying for..
    If I can toss a few bucks over at the guys so they can work on the thing... thats the idea right!

    Needs lots of things to be a "complete" suite but looks like they WANT to go that way and thats all you can ask!

  • KevinCrossKevinCross London, UKPosts: 1,893Member

    I love coming back every now and then to see nothing's really changed...

  • JapsterJapster Posts: 620Member, PRO

    @Bunker said:
    It's one of those - It is what it is things..as always.. it's not the idea that is thought of, it's the ones that are executed well.

    I feel like Gamesalad now is far better then it was a while back- and worth paying for..
    If I can toss a few bucks over at the guys so they can work on the thing... thats the idea right!

    Needs lots of things to be a "complete" suite but looks like they WANT to go that way and thats all you can ask!

    Err... I have to completely disagree mate... I appreciate the recent work made to try and fix the MASSES of broken stuff, but to put it in context - a YEAR AND A HALF ago, it seemed GREAT - issues with some stuff (as usual), but at least I could publish, touch anywhere on screen, use ads if I wanted, etc, etc....

    Fast-forward to now, and atm it is DEFINITELY not worth paying for, at least until it's fixed. The Web version wanting to be a complete suite sounds 'great', but we all know it's going to be 12 months+ / 2 years before it's even on a par with the 'kicked to the kerb' Mac Creator that we were happy to continue using...

    In short, I admire your enthusiasm, but the current plan / state of the product, and the impression that they 'want' it (Web? - Desktop?) to be a complete suite, is I feel, sadly misguided and somewhat naive - They 'want' GS to be an education-only tool by all accounts,and might throw a bone or 2 to the subscribers who line their pockets, when they feel like settling some of the unrest, but NOTHING that they currently offer (or plan to) is anywhere near a point where I'd be happy to agree that they're doing 'all we can ask for', and as much as I'd love that to be the case, it's really not...

    I'm just hoping that they at least fix the release-killing issues that are plaguing a lot of us atm, then at least I can hopefully find closure by actually releasing my 2-3 year's-worth of projects I have sitting, currently un-releasable... (Earlier publishing issues, current Touch issues, Ads, etc)

  • BunkerBunker Posts: 36Member, PRO

    Can I ask what is it that you use/want Gamesalad for? like what do you need/want Jasper?

    For me; I'm just trying to shake off the rust and get my mind thinking about logic and what-not. I feel like if you truly want to be a developer and produce your own stuff one would need to use an engine with slightly more control over everything. I mean, if they decide to change a feature that your game works on - you're screwed.

    I wouldn't trust something like Gamesalad to generate income long-term because of this. Same with things like Unity.. they charge a monthly registration and that could change up or down at any time with little notice.. seems like a roll of the dice to me right?

    for Gamesalad, if I wanted to complete a game, I'd want to make it simple and small with a release date that was in the 2 week - 1 month range. Would have to think about the limitations of the engine and build the game to work with these issues. You don't have time to wait for the tools to be made you know?

  • JapsterJapster Posts: 620Member, PRO
    edited March 22

    @Bunker said:

    Can I ask what is it that you use/want Gamesalad for? like what do you need/want Jasper?

    For me; I'm just trying to shake off the rust and get my mind thinking about logic and what-not. I feel like if you truly want to be a developer and produce your own stuff one would need to use an engine with slightly more control over everything. I mean, if they decide to change a feature that your game works on - you're screwed.

    I wouldn't trust something like Gamesalad to generate income long-term because of this. Same with things like Unity.. they charge a monthly registration and that could change up or down at any time with little notice.. seems like a roll of the dice to me right?

    for Gamesalad, if I wanted to complete a game, I'd want to make it simple and small with a release date that was in the 2 week - 1 month range. Would have to think about the limitations of the engine and build the game to work with these issues. You don't have time to wait for the tools to be made you know?

    Hi @Bunker ! - Yep, I'm probably overly ambitious - My niggle is that GS is EASILY capable of handling even my more ambitious games - they run (RAN) beautifully...

    It's a good point about short gestation times and quick out of the door projects, but I'm more tuned towards pushing myself, and I like to think that IF my games were releasable atm (they're pretty much complete!), they'd be a great showcase for the power of GS, and once released, then theoretically, they'd just remain in the App Store etc, generating a bit of income, and just well, WORK. Unfortunately at present there's absolutely NO chance of that, and until it's stable (I've already waited, wasted nearly 6 months since the original publishing and Ads problems), then I'm not going to even load it up - there's simply no point, and it only vexes me when I find more and more wrong with it in the meantime.

    So yeah, it's a good point - GS is suited to small projects, but it's frustrating when I KNOW that it can be great - Take a look at these for examples of it's diversity and abilities when it's NOT BROKEN.... :frowning:

    and these 2 look much more polished now, than in these 2 snapshots/videos - just pasting in the forum link for Parcel Monkey reminded me that I'd nearly finished it in SEPTEMBER LAST YEAR..... grrr....

    Parcel Monkey / Courier Chaos:-

    http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/95548/my-upcoming-parcel-monkey-simulator-game-is-in-beta-alpha-etc-any-ios-playtesters-d

    Gravity Star Rescue Racer:-

    ...and in terms of waiting for the tools - Nope, I was happy with what was THERE... :frowning: ie. everything I needed was working, bar the ads being broken. In the process of (eventually) looking to fix the ads, GS broke the publishing, etc... Then, when Ads were (kinda) working, the touch issues arose, and they were HUGE issues, release-breaking ones.... So I'm still sitting here waiting for that primarily, as I say, so for close to 6 months now, I've been screwed in releasing these 2 years' worth of solid hard work projects...

    Frustrated and annoyed are understatements, and can they not see that there are LOADS of projects that would make GS look GREAT if releasable, but at present are doing the exact polar opposite for it's image, by peeing off the users here who simply cannot release and monetise with the engine as it stands, or as in poor @Zwire 's case, have released and been badly affected by them, to the point of killing their game's rep and userbase on the app stores... :angry:

  • stragstrag Posts: 497Member, PRO

    @Japster I agree. I actually liked the limitations of GameSalad as it makes me think more creatively.
    There are millions of ideas you could use GameSalad for.

    For me new features are not important. Just an engine that is stable and with the ad networks updated etc, and bugs squashed.

    The shift of focus to online has made it obvious that education is priority No1 and for this reason I am learning alternative tools.

    Having said that I have a huge soft spot for GameSalad as I love simple yet powerful software and I will need it to update my apps for a while yet.

  • jamie_cjamie_c ImagineLabs.rocks Posts: 5,431Member, BASIC
  • smurftedsmurfted Posts: 494Member, BASIC

    What @strag said...

    p.s. i am also (unhappily) having to look into other tools.

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