Here's what I'm thinking for an update. • Health drops, for longer exploration • Boost power of Fiery Orb • Remove auto-off of Fiery Orb when shopping • A World Map • Activate Jet Pack
Jet Pack?! ...what does that mean? Basically, it solves the suicide problem. If you die, you should die! I think it's bad game design to let the players keep their gold if they play like crazy. However, people are frustrated with the difficulty. So, if you activate the Jet Pack before you die, you can return home quickly.
As for the world map, I think people will have more incentive to play if they see little boxes that they can color in. It gives them a goal... "OH... I haven't seen that square." So then when they try to see all the squares, they will see the enemies they have to fight. Once they beat those enemies, they can get the upgrades.
Other things I'm considering, but still not sure about... • Player starts with level 1 for all items. This eliminates the need for me to explain so much, as the player can test things out for themselves. That would make it easier and more fun for beginners. • A title-screen • A tutorial (I'm still wondering how it will look) • A second control scheme (Unlikely, but I am considering it) • Quick Weapon Switch, without going to title screen.
After yesterday was worrying about what was going to happen to this game but know you have outlined these additions I think this game has a great chance of success! In all honesty bit disappointed that a second set of controls is not on the cards as that's my main issue with the game!
I am thinking about it, but if I don't like how GameSalad games run with thumbsticks... not with multi-touch. I find that the controller gets stuck after a while.
My experiments with joysticks seem to yield better results with multi button groups set up to simulate a joystick and it avoided all the problems but did take some setting up. I used a total of 25 buttons for each controller with checks for position with each button area for the touch. I know its a ugly way around things but it did work.
old_kipper said: My experiments with joysticks seem to yield better results with multi button groups set up to simulate a joystick and it avoided all the problems but did take some setting up. I used a total of 25 buttons for each controller with checks for position with each button area for the touch. I know its a ugly way around things but it did work.
I thought about using such a technique, but TANK is supposed to have 360° range of movement. If I used little squares to make up the controller, his movement would snap to each of those squares.
CodeMonkey's example uses little invisible actors. We're both thinking the same thing... how to eliminate that invisible actor and just let single actors do the work.
You seem more confident about it, so I thought about it again...
If the actor is touched...
--If touch 1 is within the square (four conditions) Then use touch 1 data Else -- If touch 2 is within the square (four conditions) Then use touch 2 data Else --If touch 3 is within the square (four conditions) Then use touch 3 data
I was also playing it for another hour last night, and you do get used to the controls, granted, they are still cumbersome, and I find myself dying unnecessarily b/c I can't get him positioned right to make the kill.
I think a joystick would do wonders for controls.
Also, I think all your ideas for the updates are great!
Adding a jetpack so you can go back to base would do wonders. I found myself wandering off too far to get back to base.
Also, maybe add health centers in addition to dropping health. Like little spots in areas that illuminate indicating it will replenish full health would be awesome.
I think you're on the right track with the update, and I look forward to it!
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Hey photics. I think I have also found a bug you may want to try to resolve. Not major but definitely annoying.
When you touch off of the are you can walk on of touch on a path across from where you are Tank just starts walking sideways and sometimes really gets to moving in odd directions trying to get over to where you touched. Obviously you can touch on a path again and he comes back to normal so its not like it ruins the game. but it obviously glitches a little there.
Love the art work. and the game is enjoyable. Its not my personal preference for iOS games but I was compelled to get it because of the hype.
tenrdrmer said: When you touch off of the are you can walk on of touch on a path across from where you are Tank just starts walking sideways and sometimes really gets to moving in odd directions trying to get over to where you touched. Obviously you can touch on a path again and he comes back to normal so its not like it ruins the game. but it obviously glitches a little there.
When TANK walks near the edge, then goes past a sharp corner, he doesn't turn the corner... he just keeps going. I think that's a glitch with the game physics. I'm not sure why that happens.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Photics said: When TANK walks near the edge, then goes past a sharp corner, he doesn't turn the corner... he just keeps going. I think that's a glitch with the game physics. I'm not sure why that happens.
Thats not what I mean. I'm talking click out over the edge or another path visible past the edge. Then just let it run. At one point he even started walking backward. Its not a big deal just thought I should mention it since you will prob get lots of scrutiny with the hype from this one.
Finally played this last night, maybe for 30 minutes or so?
I was surprised that the controls were as difficult to get a hold of as they ended up being. I figured after hearing how they work that I would pick up fast, but when the wasps fly up on you, and you're pointed the wrong direction, it's pretty hard to get turned around to fight them, especially in the little window of attack that your sword has, and trying to kill them with the gun is fruitless.
I end up accidentally triggering my sword a lot while I'm trying to walk around, because eventually, he walks in to my finger... I found that I wanted to control it like Diablo or Dungeon Hunter, and just click enemies to fight them, just because of muscle memory from playing those games.
Are there upgrades and such around in the wilderness? Or is everything just collect coins, buy stuff? I don't really understand what the upgrades are from the pictures. I would think laser eyes from night vision. Is the bottom one a speed upgrade, or is that the stealth thing?
The guns all look roughly the same, so it's hard to tell what is what when buying and equipping. And so far, they seem useless, I guess I use the sword until I can upgrade a gun to a power level that makes it even worth firing?
I feel like right know that exploring is discouraged, because I go much past the base, and then get double teamed, then try and make it back to the base with my loot, I will get killed, so it encourages mindless grinding right outside of the base... which is no fun, especially since right outside of the base most of the coins drop off the edge of the path.
I traveled to the desert area and found some super-hard spiders, and some foggy area on the other side...
I was a little disappointed with the sound effects, or lack thereof. I wasn't hearing my attacks land on the mech-wasps, I wasn't hearing mech-wasps attack landing on me... etc... Just me?
A noise for when the girl is healing you would probably drive that mechanic home as well. Like a boop boop boop for each bar until you're full, it was confusing at first. I didn't realize she was refilling my life, I thought she was in love with me, because my life bar is not hearts. Or does she heal me with LOVE....
Metronome49 said: Are there upgrades and such around in the wilderness?
There five main upgrades for TANK. There are boss enemies in the game that drop upgrades.
Metronome49 said: especially since right outside of the base most of the coins drop off the edge of the path.
That's by design, to discourage players from staying too close to the base. There's a better chances for loot from spiders instead of the wasps near the beginning... which is why the spiders are harder.
"That's by design, to discourage players from staying too close to the base."
Unfortunately, it forces you to be in that area grinding in the beginning, because going much further and you're likely to lose everything coming back. The first hour people spend with the game will be spent grinding in the place that's the worst for grinding.
Definitely worth a buck. I've bought a lot worse games for the price of a coke, but also a lot better games.
I think there definitely was a lot of hype and expectation from all the posts and hyperbole therein leading up to release (although I never really thought it was going to turn out as good as you were suggesting) that made the final product shine less than it should. I mean LOL, on your next project, don't start by saying that you're going bird hunting, LOL. ;-)
It's better than I expected from the comments here. I'm not bored with it yet. We'll see if I'm motivated to pick it up again.
I love the update ideas. The world map to see how the zones are connected would be awesome. It could have some kind of fog of war effect so that you only see areas you've explored (to encourage exploring).
Played another 30 minutes or so today. Still struggling with the controls, especially when I get ambushed and don't have time to line Bot up. I was thinking of some virtual joystick alternatives (because I think a virtual joystick would make the game too easy). Here's a control scheme you might consider:
- Tap on the screen to move Bot (same as current). - Tap and hold on Bot to initiate combat. Sliding your finger to the front of Bot results in the sword coming out. You can then rotate your finger around Bot and he will rotate with your finger and swing his sword. Sliding your finger to the back of Bot results in the gun coming out. You can then rotate your finger around Bot and he will rotate so that he is always facing away from your finger and fire in that direction.
I think that would solve a lot of the control problems because you would always have to tap and hold on Bot to initiate combat (not tap and hold behind Bot to fire the gun which frequently results in Bot turning around away from the enemy or having to line Bot up before using the sword).
@Jeff that would be extremely hard to do. Anyways, I played another hour today and got really frustrated by the amount of spiders you put onscreen in s lot of the areas. On a couple of places, I counted at least 5 spiders that ambushed and killed me. Even with a LVL 3 laser and LVL 2 fire orb, it's still kind of hard to kill spiders. It's hard to kill anything in this game that's ambushing you because it's impossible to just rotate him. Just saying that you might've gone a little too far with the spideys.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
- Tap on the screen to move Bot (same as current). - Tap and hold on Bot to initiate combat. Sliding your finger to the front of Bot results in the sword coming out. You can then rotate your finger around Bot and he will rotate with your finger and swing his sword. Sliding your finger to the back of Bot results in the gun coming out. You can then rotate your finger around Bot and he will rotate so that he is always facing away from your finger and fire in that direction.
I really like that actually. I doubt it would be very difficult to modify to this method. The swinging the sword would be very useful
So maybe it's supposed to be this way, or maybe somebody has already reported it, but the App Store allows you to buy BOT on first gen devices. Out of curiosity, I tried to install it on a first gen iPhone... and found that it starts, shows the splash screen, and crashes back to the home screen.
No hard feelings or worries, I can use it on another device, just thought I should throw it out there that you might get some seriously angry consumers out there if they buy it on a first gen device and watch it crash, not just under perform.
I'm definitely a fan of big, exploration type games like Fallout, Zelda and so forth so it sounds like I should definitely try out this game, especially after all the love Photics has put into it...
On the other hand, some comments people are leaving in this thread are making me wonder whether some Beta testing would have been a good idea, and if the developer didn't sort of get tunnel vision during development...
The thing about all those classic exploration games is that they don't just throw you into it without any explanation. People have mentioned having a tutorial, which probably sounds like heresy to someone making games for a hardcore crowd - but tutorial doesn't have to mean hand-holding. Look at the masters of game design like Nintendo or Valve - their games don't have explicit tutorials at all but they communicate everything to the player by introducing mechanics one at a time, giving the player safe areas to get acclimatised to the controls and so on. I'm sure that a lot of the complaints people have about this game could be ameliorated simply by designing a linear first half hour that introduces players to the movement, basic weapons and the like.
The other thing that I worry Photics might be too in love with is making it completely wordless. For example, he cited a quest where talking to an NPC gave you a picture of a wasp that you had to go and kill. If I just saw that picture without words, (or a comic-book style illustration/animation showing the protagonist killing the wasp then returning to collect a reward) I wouldn't understand the message. Was the NPC giving me a wasp? Warning me about wasps? Showing me their pet wasp? I just wouldn't have a clue.
Seems like people are enjoying it more today, albeit a few niggles about the controls still but JeffreyShimane's control scheme sounds like gold, worst case scenario you add a button to hold for the sword to come out
StuartY said: The other thing that I worry Photics might be too in love with is making it completely wordless. For example, he cited a quest where talking to an NPC gave you a picture of a wasp that you had to go and kill. If I just saw that picture without words, (or a comic-book style illustration/animation showing the protagonist killing the wasp then returning to collect a reward) I wouldn't understand the message. Was the NPC giving me a wasp? Warning me about wasps? Showing me their pet wasp? I just wouldn't have a clue.
Ok a picture of a wasp sounds quite illusive or maybe puzzling to some but tbh the protagonist killing the wasp then returning to collect a reward in a comic illustration sounds perfect if you were not going to have any words...and i think you probably would get it!
I just wanted to add my opinions... I love the graphics and music (however some animations could be touched up a bit)... the gameplay in general was pretty bad, however you are adding some nice changes... All of this wouldn't have happened if you had just released game play or codes to people to play test it, but it obviously takes you a while to even consider others' opinions...
mangaroo said: JeffreyShimane's control scheme sounds like gold, worst case scenario you add a button to hold for the sword to come out
I didn't try it, but I read it and realized a problem right away... sometimes the touch needs to be held to move, otherwise TANK would be constantly stopped by the invisible holes/walls.
Jetpack looks cool
I think I'm going to make OS 4.1 the requirement for the update. If it's crashing on first generation iOS devices, that's not good.
mangaroo said: Ok a picture of a wasp sounds quite illusive or maybe puzzling to some but tbh the protagonist killing the wasp then returning to collect a reward in a comic illustration sounds perfect if you were not going to have any words...and i think you probably would get it!
Yeah, that was my point, should have made it clearer.
I was thinking about it for the original launch, but I thought it made things too easy. Maybe that's great addition for The Unofficial GameSalad Textbook. Should your game be easy or hard? Apparently, easy seems better for sales. HA HA
I still like the original controls, but I'm still planning to test a thumbstick. Yeah, that might make the game really easy... I'm thinking that's not such a bad thing.
The Wii and iOS catered to casual players and they did well!
Comments
• Health drops, for longer exploration
• Boost power of Fiery Orb
• Remove auto-off of Fiery Orb when shopping
• A World Map
• Activate Jet Pack
Jet Pack?! ...what does that mean? Basically, it solves the suicide problem. If you die, you should die! I think it's bad game design to let the players keep their gold if they play like crazy. However, people are frustrated with the difficulty. So, if you activate the Jet Pack before you die, you can return home quickly.
As for the world map, I think people will have more incentive to play if they see little boxes that they can color in. It gives them a goal... "OH... I haven't seen that square." So then when they try to see all the squares, they will see the enemies they have to fight. Once they beat those enemies, they can get the upgrades.
Other things I'm considering, but still not sure about...
• Player starts with level 1 for all items. This eliminates the need for me to explain so much, as the player can test things out for themselves. That would make it easier and more fun for beginners.
• A title-screen
• A tutorial (I'm still wondering how it will look)
• A second control scheme (Unlikely, but I am considering it)
• Quick Weapon Switch, without going to title screen. TANK actually gets two upgrades to improve how much damage he can take.
Cheers.
Good luck
kipper
CodeMonkey's example uses little invisible actors. We're both thinking the same thing... how to eliminate that invisible actor and just let single actors do the work.
You seem more confident about it, so I thought about it again...
If the actor is touched...
--If touch 1 is within the square (four conditions)
Then use touch 1 data
Else
-- If touch 2 is within the square (four conditions)
Then use touch 2 data
Else
--If touch 3 is within the square (four conditions)
Then use touch 3 data
Use particles to simulate a thumbstick
I can test it. Maybe BOT will get a thumbstick.
I was also playing it for another hour last night, and you do get used to the controls, granted, they are still cumbersome, and I find myself dying unnecessarily b/c I can't get him positioned right to make the kill.
I think a joystick would do wonders for controls.
Also, I think all your ideas for the updates are great!
Adding a jetpack so you can go back to base would do wonders. I found myself wandering off too far to get back to base.
Also, maybe add health centers in addition to dropping health. Like little spots in areas that illuminate indicating it will replenish full health would be awesome.
I think you're on the right track with the update, and I look forward to it!
When you touch off of the are you can walk on of touch on a path across from where you are Tank just starts walking sideways and sometimes really gets to moving in odd directions trying to get over to where you touched. Obviously you can touch on a path again and he comes back to normal so its not like it ruins the game. but it obviously glitches a little there.
Love the art work. and the game is enjoyable. Its not my personal preference for iOS games but I was compelled to get it because of the hype.
I added health drops, it's nice. Players can hunt longer now.
I'm trying to hurry so that players can enjoy this as soon as possible!
I was surprised that the controls were as difficult to get a hold of as they ended up being. I figured after hearing how they work that I would pick up fast, but when the wasps fly up on you, and you're pointed the wrong direction, it's pretty hard to get turned around to fight them, especially in the little window of attack that your sword has, and trying to kill them with the gun is fruitless.
I end up accidentally triggering my sword a lot while I'm trying to walk around, because eventually, he walks in to my finger... I found that I wanted to control it like Diablo or Dungeon Hunter, and just click enemies to fight them, just because of muscle memory from playing those games.
Are there upgrades and such around in the wilderness? Or is everything just collect coins, buy stuff? I don't really understand what the upgrades are from the pictures. I would think laser eyes from night vision. Is the bottom one a speed upgrade, or is that the stealth thing?
The guns all look roughly the same, so it's hard to tell what is what when buying and equipping. And so far, they seem useless, I guess I use the sword until I can upgrade a gun to a power level that makes it even worth firing?
I feel like right know that exploring is discouraged, because I go much past the base, and then get double teamed, then try and make it back to the base with my loot, I will get killed, so it encourages mindless grinding right outside of the base... which is no fun, especially since right outside of the base most of the coins drop off the edge of the path.
I traveled to the desert area and found some super-hard spiders, and some foggy area on the other side...
I was a little disappointed with the sound effects, or lack thereof. I wasn't hearing my attacks land on the mech-wasps, I wasn't hearing mech-wasps attack landing on me... etc... Just me?
A noise for when the girl is healing you would probably drive that mechanic home as well. Like a boop boop boop for each bar until you're full, it was confusing at first. I didn't realize she was refilling my life, I thought she was in love with me, because my life bar is not hearts. Or does she heal me with LOVE....
There are boss enemies in the game that drop upgrades. That's by design, to discourage players from staying too close to the base. There's a better chances for loot from spiders instead of the wasps near the beginning... which is why the spiders are harder.
Unfortunately, it forces you to be in that area grinding in the beginning, because going much further and you're likely to lose everything coming back. The first hour people spend with the game will be spent grinding in the place that's the worst for grinding.
Definitely worth a buck. I've bought a lot worse games for the price of a coke, but also a lot better games.
I think there definitely was a lot of hype and expectation from all the posts and hyperbole therein leading up to release (although I never really thought it was going to turn out as good as you were suggesting) that made the final product shine less than it should. I mean LOL, on your next project, don't start by saying that you're going bird hunting, LOL. ;-)
It's better than I expected from the comments here. I'm not bored with it yet. We'll see if I'm motivated to pick it up again.
Played another 30 minutes or so today. Still struggling with the controls, especially when I get ambushed and don't have time to line Bot up. I was thinking of some virtual joystick alternatives (because I think a virtual joystick would make the game too easy). Here's a control scheme you might consider:
- Tap on the screen to move Bot (same as current).
- Tap and hold on Bot to initiate combat. Sliding your finger to the front of Bot results in the sword coming out. You can then rotate your finger around Bot and he will rotate with your finger and swing his sword. Sliding your finger to the back of Bot results in the gun coming out. You can then rotate your finger around Bot and he will rotate so that he is always facing away from your finger and fire in that direction.
I think that would solve a lot of the control problems because you would always have to tap and hold on Bot to initiate combat (not tap and hold behind Bot to fire the gun which frequently results in Bot turning around away from the enemy or having to line Bot up before using the sword).
- Jeff
Anyways, I played another hour today and got really frustrated by the amount of spiders you put onscreen in s lot of the areas. On a couple of places, I counted at least 5 spiders that ambushed and killed me. Even with a LVL 3 laser and LVL 2 fire orb, it's still kind of hard to kill spiders. It's hard to kill anything in this game that's ambushing you because it's impossible to just rotate him. Just saying that you might've gone a little too far with the spideys.
No hard feelings or worries, I can use it on another device, just thought I should throw it out there that you might get some seriously angry consumers out there if they buy it on a first gen device and watch it crash, not just under perform.
Looks like a fascinating game though! Good work.
On the other hand, some comments people are leaving in this thread are making me wonder whether some Beta testing would have been a good idea, and if the developer didn't sort of get tunnel vision during development...
The thing about all those classic exploration games is that they don't just throw you into it without any explanation. People have mentioned having a tutorial, which probably sounds like heresy to someone making games for a hardcore crowd - but tutorial doesn't have to mean hand-holding. Look at the masters of game design like Nintendo or Valve - their games don't have explicit tutorials at all but they communicate everything to the player by introducing mechanics one at a time, giving the player safe areas to get acclimatised to the controls and so on. I'm sure that a lot of the complaints people have about this game could be ameliorated simply by designing a linear first half hour that introduces players to the movement, basic weapons and the like.
The other thing that I worry Photics might be too in love with is making it completely wordless. For example, he cited a quest where talking to an NPC gave you a picture of a wasp that you had to go and kill. If I just saw that picture without words, (or a comic-book style illustration/animation showing the protagonist killing the wasp then returning to collect a reward) I wouldn't understand the message. Was the NPC giving me a wasp? Warning me about wasps? Showing me their pet wasp? I just wouldn't have a clue.
I just wanted to add my opinions... I love the graphics and music (however some animations could be touched up a bit)... the gameplay in general was pretty bad, however you are adding some nice changes... All of this wouldn't have happened if you had just released game play or codes to people to play test it, but it obviously takes you a while to even consider others' opinions...
Just my opinions,
OB
Jetpack looks cool
I think I'm going to make OS 4.1 the requirement for the update. If it's crashing on first generation iOS devices, that's not good.
I still like the original controls, but I'm still planning to test a thumbstick. Yeah, that might make the game really easy... I'm thinking that's not such a bad thing.
The Wii and iOS catered to casual players and they did well!
Photics.com page
http://photics.com/bot
Link to iTunes
http://photics.com/buy-bot