I believe, it's goodbye....

Hunnenkoenig · January 2011

Today they released a GUI for Corona:

I already bought it for the beta lifetime price.

I think, my new game will be made with corona and I think, it's goodbye for now.

I will try to learn the new GUI and corona on the weekend, and if everything goes well, I will release my newest game to Android and iPhone with Gamecenter and all the cool stuff.

Cheers!

P.S.:
Maybe I will report back about my experiences.

@GS: I think, now it's time to overthink your attitude and the way, how you execute things in general...

Sparkyidr · January 2011

It's not quite a GUI.. but more a scene builder tool.

At the mo, it only exports the code for things like object placement and size etc for you to copy/paste into your lua code.

great looking tool for sure.. just not a GS replacement yet.

forklift · January 2011

It's a step in the right direction for Corona, but GS is still way friendlier. Please take note Gendai, their photoshop-esque layer editing/locking is DO WANT.

tenrdrmer · January 2011

Yeah this was announced and discussed a couple days ago this is the second scene builder released for corona and the other one is free. You still have to use code to put in all of your behaviors once the scene is setup. No doubt it will speed up the process of corona but its still not truly drag and drop

jonmulcahy · January 2011

This really doesn't belong here.

iDeveloper · January 2011

jonmulcahy said:
This really doesn't belong here.

That's funny, I thought "Miscellaneous" means "Off-Topic", thus belonging here.

jonmulcahy · January 2011

Not when you discus the pricing of a competing product, it should be talked about over in the corona forums, not on the game salad forum.

Hunnenkoenig · January 2011

jonmulcahy said:
Not when you discus the pricing of a competing product, it should be talked about over in the corona forums, not on the game salad forum.

Where do you see here a discussion about prices?
Believe me, I know, what is belonging where.
This is absolutely fine here, what I wrote.

tenrdrmer · January 2011

Hunnenkoenig said:
Where do you see here a discussion about prices?
Believe me, I know, what is belonging where.
This is absolutely fine here, what I wrote.

I have to agree jon. I don't see any issue with this. it's bad the day we are not even allowed to mention the "c" word or our post gets shut down. This place is about openness right. then he can talk all he wants just don't start pitching corona and trying to get other to jump ship with you.

JohnPapiomitis · January 2011

tenrdrmer said:
I have to agree jon. I don't see any issue with this. it's bad the day we are not even allowed to mention the "c" word or our post gets shut down. This place is about openness right. then he can talk all he wants just don't start pitching corona and trying to get other to jump ship with you.

ill 2nd that. It makes gamesalad look like a scared little puppy

jonmulcahy · January 2011

Welll I didn't close it because I think part of this does belong, but stuff like this really doesnt belong on the gamesalad forums:
I already bought it for the beta lifetime price.

That's my opinion, it's fine to discuss competition, but I think there is a line

Photics · January 2011

Hunnenkoenig said:
Where do you see here a discussion about prices?
Believe me, I know, what is belonging where.
This is absolutely fine here, what I wrote.

It was discussed though.

I think it looks bad for GameSalad.

SpriteDeck isn't as robust as GameSalad, but it is a huge warning though. If GameSalad doesn't get moving... IT MAY NEVER RECOVER!

I'm not a big fan of goodbye posts though. This isn't an MMORPG like World of Warcraft. The basic version of GameSalad is free.

iDeveloper · January 2011

jonmulcahy said:
Welll I didn't close it because I think part of this does belong, but stuff like this really doesnt belong on the gamesalad forums:
I already bought it for the beta lifetime price.

That's my opinion, it's fine to discuss competition, but I think there is a line

Oh, thanks for explaining. I misinterpreted your original post.

xyloFUN · January 2011

Well Hunny,
it is getting late in Wien so you might or might not catch this ...

I will miss my neighbour (who knows Kelowna and Kelowna chicks know him) ...
Be sure to shovel a wide path and but plenty of breadcrumbs down ... so that the next one who follows you knows where to go

quantumsheep · January 2011

xyloFUN said:
Be sure to shovel a wide path and but plenty of breadcrumbs down ... so that the next one who follows you knows where to go

Or so you can find your way back when it's not what you thought it would be

QS

xyloFUN · January 2011

Actually, I know exactly what Corona is and I know that both tools are necessary if one is serious about making apps in 2011

GS is ideal for prototyping out a concept really quick as we all know, you can do a LOT in a few hours or few days.

Corona is a must have for anyone doing contract work (which is mandatory to subsidize the paycheque from Apple or for those who need the extra performance which hand coding delivers.

i've stated this before (i think) that by the end of the year, quite a few tools will be available and if there are no mergers (which I can't see just yet) than it's like those of us who use Photoshop, pixelmator, the gimp and ArtRage. Each tool does something and for some jobs, PS is overkill for others it is a MUST!

As they say in France: faites vous comprenez?

quantumsheep · January 2011

xyloFUN said:
Actually, I know exactly what Corona is...

As do I. As does Hunn, I'm sure.

I was referring to the spritedeck add-on. It *looks* like a full on GameSalad GUI, but it's not.

Cheers,

QS

xyloFUN · January 2011

Oh "that" thing ... i have to confess that I don't understand their strategy because they state that a full D&D is not their goal.
My understanding is that seasoned programmers will not buy it (purists usually reject those things flat out) and beginners can't quite manage yet.

I suppose their released early to raise a little bit of revenue? The wild card with them is to know where their tool stands by summer time or autumn? Are they adding? My guess is that they need to pick an audience and there is an endless supply of newcomers like me

BeyondtheTech · January 2011

In case you missed a web-based version of a similar idea:

But, in honesty, I've recently been contemplating leaving GameSalad behind.

However, when you think about it, there really is no "leaving." After all, I'm paid up as Pro for another year. All I'd be doing is letting it go to waste. But, in certain respects - because of how easy it is to use, there really is nothing to "learn" in GameSalad, compared to trying to learn an actual programming language like Lua that's used in Corona. In my opinion, "learning" GameSalad can translate to spending enough time to get comfortable to use it fluidly. It's mostly likely akin to riding a bike - once you learn, you never "forget" how.

After a bit of hiatus to resolve personal issues, I've got three games in preliminary form. Two of them, in my opinion, can be made entirely in GameSalad, though they'd be lacking in much-needed online leaderboards/achievements. The remaining one - the one I'm most enthusiastic about - I want to make it full-featured from the getgo in order to make a positive impact (read: good sales), and that I am certain GameSalad cannot do and might not be able to do in the intermediate future.

A major issue I'm facing is that GameSalad's development, while slow, is also relatively volatile. We've seen a lot of things break from one release to another. My game Spellcaster that I built a year ago with 0.8.1 appears to be consistently broken in iOS 4.0: it crashes when trying to cast a spell. A few months ago, I opened it in 0.8.5 (give or take a version number), and the game loads completely upside-down on my iPhone. I tried changing the orientation settings, but to no avail. From the way it looks, I fear I would have to rebuild the game from scratch in the opposite orientation. This headache is much worse from when we went from 0.8.1 to 0.8.2. My sound playback and timers were all over the place, and that was a nightmare to try to fix, and it's still not completely resolved. I might have to pull the game at this point.

Since we don't have direct access to our scripts, especially being able to search for a particular attribute or rule/behavior/group name, many rules and behaviors that get new implementations can just stop working properly, with dead fields or dead equations, simply resulting in a dead scene. There's no easy way to debug it, especially if you don't have all your actors as prototypes.

When GameSalad works, it works decently. But let's be frank - something that GameSalad has asked me to do, specifically - their best feature is also the only feature it's got going for it. GameSalad Direct proved to be a community nightmare. GameSalad Accelerator is also not proving to work well yet. Photics stated we've only seen one build in five months (lest you be reminded that our $499 Pro licenses are only good for 12 months). Communication seemed to improve ever so slightly, but why they remain so tightlipped about practically everything is still beyond me, especially when everyone else has all the "secret" wanted features already. We still don't have a roadmap. We still don't have arrays. Game Center or OpenFeint still MIA. We can't access the system time, keyboard, microphone, GPS, gyroscope, camera, iTunes/Photo libraries, pull a file down or post information on the web. All GS releases now have splash screens. Memory leaks still exist.

Comparatively, Corona is shifting into daily builds very shortly, releasing new features as soon as they're implemented, and their roadmap has been strong and on schedule. Honestly, I don't know who's behind the wheel of Corona except for some guy named Carlos Icaza. He might be the only developer, as far as I know. Yet, he is accessible and helpful as the day has sun, and it really makes you think if there are just too many cooks who are spoiling the broth at GameSalad, or (no offense) if they're working part-time or with one hand tied behind their back. Lastly, with all these new powerful add-ons in Corona's arsenal, it really makes it difficult to continue the waiting game here.

GarageGames is also smartly making a comeback with iTorque 2D. It'll take some time to get back on their feet, but I'm already paid up on that license as well. Other engines are well on their way to the iOS platform.

I just don't know what to think about all of this. I've even applied to GameSalad for a position, which would result in possibly uprooting my entire family to Texas, in the hopes I could make a positive change or difference in the company and the development of this engine, but just like all of us waiting and waiting for better updates, better communication, better features, and better fixes, I'm still waiting to receive that follow-up phone call.

Believe me, I want this to work, not only as a paid customer, but as a cheerleader for the underdog. But, look at the whole picture: it's a dog-eat-dog world out there, we've got 300,000+ apps in the App Store, over 10,000,000,000 downloads to date, and Verizon plus Apple are going to unleash a ton of new iOS users when they get their iPhone in the next two weeks. Many of us are running a three-legged race with GameSalad, but we're tangled and tripping over their red tape, and half the time they don't feel like they're running, or at least running in the right direction, and it's getting many of us nowhere fast.

xyloFUN · January 2011

I usually don't read long posts but yours I have read twice!
For the first time I have nothing to add except a click on "I like this post"

iDeveloper · January 2011

@BeyondtheTech
Thanks for the speech. I agree with it, plain and simple.

JGary321 · January 2011

For those thinking it will be replacing GS anytime soon.... From Photics website..

`
Thanks for the review, Michael. I’m the developer behind SpriteDeck.
`
`I don’t think we are going to move down the GameSalad direction and do away with code all together. SpriteDeck is meant to let you write smarter and cleaner code.`

`That being said, we have built a very flexible code generator, also known as “target bundles”. For example, we have built a comic book target bundle that lets you build comic apps without any code. Here is a quick demo`

It looks great & will make it a lot easier for those who understand some basic code to get more depth out of their games, but I don't think Corona will ever move to be a GS replacement.

xyloFUN · January 2011

Gary,
If I understand the issue correctly, it is not about another software replacing GS but rather game developers replacing GS with other software.
Sprite deck probably cut the learning curve for Corona in half and they are not yet done as the product was just introduced. For anyone who wants to widen her/his horizon, the deal as it stands now, is sweet!

I believe that hunnenkoenig's experience and progress will ether encourage others to follow or, if things should not go as planned, the opposite will take place.

We have too little quality communication between the developers and us. A few days ago, I complained about the screenshot issue and inquired if that will be fixed with the next update and today, I saw that the application which held 10 MEG of unnecessary screenshots during upload is only 7MEG to download.

How can that be? Why is GS not aware of what is going on behind the scenes?

People have a sense for solid connections as well as leadership. We are babies who need lots of sugar but not only don't we know when it's coming, we also don't know how much we're getting.

Who wants to eat in an restaurant with no wIters in sight and where the menu says nothing more than that food is coming soon ...

I consider myself new to game development but I have seen software companies come and go and shrink and grow.

Where is the big picture? We just want to know if our apps will be ok after the update ... If there is an update?

GS holds the power to make the corona posts go away but not with censoring! The key is features, features, features!

And yes, I can pay for such a privilege :-)

StormyStudio · January 2011

See you later Hunn...

Look forward to seeing you popping in and out now and again with your unique witty put downs..

Eminem · January 2011

pce dude, Your too funny

TokyoDan · January 2011

tenrdrmer, You mentioned that in addition to SpriteDeck that there is a free scene creator for ANSCA Corona...What is the name (link) of that free app?

BeyondtheTech · January 2011

It's in the top of my post above. Gumbo.

peachpellen · January 2011

I may actually review SpriteDeck at some point; it was offered and it seems interesting.

That said, I think it will come down to being more of a good learning tool for users (it does appear great at what it does) but I doubt it will ever be truly comparable to GameSalad, simply because that doesn't (yet?) appear to be the intention.

At the end of the day it will only be a true threat to GameSalad when no coding is involved, so probably /never/.

People who use GS exclusively are, typically, those who are too scared/lazy/busy to learn how to code; and that isn't a bad thing. It may even change if performance issues and the like are one day resolved.

At the end of the day while there is still code involved, ANY code, people will be put off and I don't see it as a true threat. (Although like I said, I haven't used it - but that's what I'm getting from what has been discussed thus far.)

One a side note, I hope all are well - I know I haven't been as active here lately but I do stop by to see how everyone is quite frequently.

Peach

quantumsheep · January 2011

Dear GameSalad overlords,

Thanks very much for the 'Marketplace' sub-section. It really helps keep the forum from being cluttered up with all the 'For Sale' signs. Nice one.

Could I request a similar Corona/Unity/Other sub forum too perchance?

Cheers,

QS

BarkBarkCo · January 2011

Sparkyidr said:
It's not quite a GUI.. but more a scene builder tool.

At the mo, it only exports the code for things like object placement and size etc for you to copy/paste into your lua code.

great looking tool for sure.. just not a GS replacement yet.

It's not GUI? That's exactly what it is. ;-)

Is it a full featured GDE or a complete GS clone for Corona? No.

lexander · January 2011

The existence of SpriteDeck is predictable, but it's far from a GameSalad. Corona knows that they lack any good tools for non-programmers. Until then, they are not exactly "for everyone".

I think it is a fallacy to think that Corona+SpriteDeck will ever collide. We are not trying to be Corona, but they are certainly envious of us.

We believe that it is good designers that make great games. What matters is that tools have to be ACCESSIBLE to designers. 99% don't have Computer Science degree, let alone a programming background.

Starting from an engine and adding lua scripting is evolutionary. It's been done, but has never become mainstream. Creating a tool designed for Designers is a revolutionary endevour. Programmers normally don't think about starting with the workflow around designers and developing from there. It's also not very glamorous making a difficult task, accessible and fast for people who don't like to code, but we love it.

I believe, it&#039;s goodbye....

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I believe, it's goodbye....