Yea, if there was a priority list for the update... Ram usage should be #1 and loading time should be #2. Anything else would be nice... but they wouldn't really result in negative feedback. If people start slamming your game in reviews... you're done.
yes first they have to think about base of the engine and make it strong. Beacuse with out this loading and ram usage issue other features like inapp and gc achievements are useless.
Different users have different needs and this might be tough for the GS folks to grapple with. The people that are very experienced with coding and / or Gamesalad can find ways to optimize their game around the limitations of default behaviors. They seem to be pushing more for the "in app purchase" and things like that. The rest of us seem to be more concerned with making default behaviors optimized to the point where we don't need attribute workarounds and with optimal RAM usage. I'm sure the experienced users ALSO want the RAM usage optimized... but they can still release their games, and aren't held back, so it's not really an issue for them. It'd be nice GS got to the point where things were optimized out of the box and you didn't need to know advanced semi-coding language.
You've mentioned this in three different places now on these forums, so I thought I'd take some time to address your point of view.
creativeapps said: I want to request GameSalad developer team to focus more on Loading time and Ram usage Instead of features like inapp purchase and gamecenter achievements. These features are also imporant for developers. But what about users who actually play our game.
GameCentre achievements are great for players. They love them. IAP less so. But these are features that will put our games on a level playing field with others.
creativeapps said: When Pro user getting inapp purchase and gamecenter achievement they feel happy but what happen when beacuse of loading and ram usage issue you will reduce your sales? I am working in these industry since 3-4 years And I am aware with that.
Please point us to your awesome games that suffer because of Load times only. I'd love to see them.
My game, Air Supply, had *horrendous* load times on a first gen iPod touch. I felt very bad for the players, and some called me on it and wrote about it.
That's fine. They're quite right to do that!
The other side of the coin is that *despite* these horrific load times, people still wrote to me and said they loved the game. They'd finished it. All with load times of about 15 seconds.
On later model devices, the load time is shortened considerably.
So, for some people it's awful. For others, if it's a good and enjoyable game, people will not worry too much about it. It's an inconvenience for sure, and I'd love it to not be there. But it should not make or break your game.
With .Matrixx, the game has sold far far less than Air Supply. But I did my level best to minimise load times in .Matrixx. So, improved load times did not help at all.
Funny that.
That's my experience of it anyway. I'd like to hear yours please.
creativeapps said: Gamesalad team can take time. Spend all focus on loading and ram usage issue. They have $6.1 million funding and they are capable to solve these issue.
Yep, and they're working on it.
creativeapps said: Read Spin The Nut user feedback in toucharcade and Spooky Hoofs feedback in itunes. Users are complaining badly only beacuse of loading time and ram usage.
Ok, I will *goes to check*
*comes back*
Ok, so I checked the Spooky Hoofs feedback in iTunes on the US store. There are 45 reviews.
Of these there are 38 five star reviews.
Of all 45 reviews, there are a massive THREE that mention loading times.
The way you described it I expected the majority to be mentioning load times. But it seems most just love the game.
Funny that.
I then went and read the TA thread for Spin the Nut.
The guy there, 'New England Gamer', has a thing against GameSalad, obviously (indeed, he calls it a 'cookie cutter' SDK. It's amazing what you can do with it in the right hands though, right? - especially as many GS made games have now got the attention of Touch Arcade).
He probably thinks they're rubbish games because he's played a lot that *are* rubbish that have been made with it.
And let's face it. It's very easy to make a rubbish game, regardless of load times!
creativeapps said: Personally I bealieve that we dont need any extra features till next update. All I want to see gamesalad remove loading time and solve the ram usage. Right now 4-5 gamesalad games are famous in app store market. See what happen when they solve loading time and ram usage issue.
You have no way of proving that they'd sell more.
Most people buy the game they want based on the screenshots and the text in front of them. There's no 'Loading time' indicator at all.
creativeapps said: Its All about user gaming experince.They want to play not watch that loading.
Yes, and it's important. I'm not disagreeing with you there. Any improvement will benefit the user experience. I'm just arguing that if you have a good game, the sky is not falling just yet.
creativeapps said: I wish with 0.9.8 they remove loading time and solve ram usage. I read Yodapollo sticky on Ram usage. I know they are working on this but I wish they include this in next feature. Remember "LOADING TIME AND RAM USAGE" will increase sale of each and everyone. And thats the truth.
No. A good game that appeals will increase your sales. As will being featured by Apple. I'm sure Gamesmold isn't worried about sales of Spooky Hoofs *despite* those three oh-so-awful mentions of load times.
Now THAT'S the truth.
Look, I'm with you. I want shorter loading times.
But it is not the end of days.
Plenty of people still do well with their games, both critically in reviews and financially in sales.
quantumsheep said: "Plenty of people still do well with their games, both critically in reviews and financially in sales."
The people that release games that do well are people with advanced knowledge of the software. These people can get their games to run smoothly and load fast. The rest of us try to use the software, but can't get things to work without the advanced "secrets" that are not part of the default behaviors. You have to know a lot of tricks to get this software to work properly.
chaley said: The people that release games that do well are people with advanced knowledge of the software. These people can get their games to run smoothly and load fast. The rest of us try to use the software, but can't get things to work without the advanced "secrets" that are not part of the default behaviors. You have to know a lot of tricks to get this software to work properly.
There are no advanced secrets. There are better ways to do certain things sure, but you only come to learn that from experience, not a secret brotherhood that holds this advanced knowledge secret.
GamersRejoice said: There are no advanced secrets. There are better ways to do certain things sure, but you only come to learn that from experience, not a secret brotherhood that holds this advanced knowledge secret.
Dude... there are TONS of advanced secrets. The reason I used the word "secret" wasn't to imply there is malicious intent to keep the information away from users, in fact the opposite is true. There are quite a few advanced users that freely give away information and really help the community. That's awesome.
They're "secrets" because only certain people know about them and the rest of us have to rely on other users to unlock the secret.
It's quite different because the GS folks market "drag and drop" yet the "drag and drop" features don't work optimally and require advanced workarounds.
People use other SDKs understanding that they'll have to code.
People come here for the most part to avoid having to code.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
+1 QS!!! You said it way better than I could have especially when I saw this several hours ago on my iPhone.
People may think i'm just a Giant Ass fanboy of GameSalad (which half of that is true) But really I just get so sick of a bunch of people complaining non stop about one thing right after the other. Heres the beauty of it all. GameSalad is FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!! You only have to pay if you want to use some extra features that do not change the quality of your game. And if you bought Pro before trying out GameSalad and seeing how it worked. Then shame on you.
I also really get sick of the ppl here that have "worked in the industry" for years and they just cannot believe how crappy the load times are. If you have worked in the industry then surly You are proficient enough to code a far better game or learn these secret Advanced Methods. That is of course if By "in the Industry" you do not mean "Well I worked as a janitor in a build that had some guys that said they coded a website once"
The only Advanced Thing that anyone could learn and have an advantage with GameSalad is Trig and Calculus Math stuff for the expression editor. Otherwise its just problem solving and learning what each behavior is capable of (Not every is good at problem solving). All of the behaviors work well for what they where designed for. Sure there are some workarounds that will give you some better loading times but the loading time is not what the behavior was originally designed Around. Sure It probably should have been but that doesn't seem to be the case. I personally have yet to bother with the "advanced workarounds" because IMO they are not worth the time. I have no issues with the current loading times in my games. Sure I would love for them to be faster. But they are not so slow I am annoyed.
I just wanted to point out the the suggested optimizations around "animate" and "change image" and such are not meant to be permanent fixes in any way. We are certainly looking to improve those behaviors.
These workarounds are only meant as a temporary solution in the case that they are causing slowdowns on your project (that does not always seem to be the case, and can vary from project to project).
The dev team is hard at work to improve performance of the engine so that these workarounds will not be needed and all the behaviors will perform just like they should. Thanks to everyone for your feedback and I hope that clears up some of the confusion.
--Yodapollo
They have already addressed your very request. They are working on it. I can personally tell you I have been told in talking with them privately. They are working on it.
Long Story Short we are all probably to blame on some level for GameSalad not focusing more on load time and ram. Why, you ask? Because up until there was a major ram issue with the last release. It has Been We want iAds, We Want IAP, We Want GameCenter, give us features or Were not renewing pro. We want our f'n Splash screen back. Etc…. I can say that cause I was in on the griping about some of those.
Just give them a break and see where it goes. At the most you have $500 invested in GameSalad and if you did that without researching the product first well I cant say I have a lot of sympathy. And best you have nothing invested in GameSalad so quit complaining and Be thankful for what they have given you. I personally think they have given too much for Free.
tenrdrmr... When people have concerns... They complain. Just like you. Especially like you. These things are very important to discuss. For every person who mentions ram usage and loading times, there are equal people asking for iAds and in app purchase. Our voices shouldn't be drowned out by advanced users that want very different things.
Hey QS, Tenrdrmr, I mean this respectfully, and besides this issue I agree with you 99% of the time: If users have concerns they want to voice on the forums, it doesn't seem right that you silence them.
Game Salad isn't a charity. They make money doing this, so users have a right to report on ongoing concerns. I've reported before that I find the support to be way too slow (clocking in at a month before I fixed the problem on my own). I'm a paying customer, and a month is not what I'd call 'priority support'. I received the same kind of "be quiet and wait for a patch" sort of feed back, when I said it more than once.
If all Gamesalad features were actually free to everyone, then I'd agree that repeated complaints could be seen as ungrateful, but since GS has accepted money from this community, we should be able to report on concerns for as long as they are a problem. If they accept money from this community, we have a business relationship.
The best way to stop complaints is to solve the problem. The next best way is to explain what you're doing to solve the problem, which Gamesalad has already done. Telling people to be silent while it's still an issue is only going to make them more frustrated.
If I could make a suggestion: Move posts like this to the suggestion forum and encourage GS staff to respond every so often. I bet it would make all the difference in the world to users with concerns to feel they've been heard by someone who can make a difference vs being told to be quiet and accept it.
GeoffB said: Hey QS, Tenrdrmr, I mean this respectfully, and besides this issue I agree with you 99% of the time: If users have concerns they want to voice on the forums, it doesn't seem right that you silence them.
I wasn't aware that I was trying to silence anyone. I actually said in my post that I agree with the guy, but to repeatedly (in three different places) opine that this is the greatest problem EVER seemed a bit wrong.
So I gave my opinion and reasoning, complete with examples, as to why I thought the conclusions from the 'evidence' provided was wrong.
I don't see how that's silencing *anyone*.
GeoffB said: Game Salad isn't a charity. They make money doing this, so users have a right to report on ongoing concerns. I've reported before that I find the support to be way too slow (clocking in at a month before I fixed the problem on my own). I'm a paying customer, and a month is not what I'd call 'priority support'. I received the same kind of "be quiet and wait for a patch" sort of feed back, when I said it more than once.
Of course, reporting ongoing concerns is fine. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. I guess my issue is with how these concerns are expressed sometimes!
GeoffB said: If all Gamesalad features were actually free to everyone, then I'd agree that repeated complaints could be seen as ungrateful, but since GS has accepted money from this community, we should be able to report on concerns for as long as they are a problem. If they accept money from this community, we have a business relationship.
So are you saying GS should only take paying customers seriously? Genuine question, honest!
GeoffB said: The best way to stop complaints is to solve the problem. The next best way is to explain what you're doing to solve the problem, which Gamesalad has already done. Telling people to be silent while it's still an issue is only going to make them more frustrated.
I think that if GS has already said what they're doing to solve a problem, bringing it up all the time is not going to help a huge amount. It can come across as constant nagging or impatient whining sometimes, surely?
A bit like kids in the back seat saying "Are we there yet?" over and over again!
GeoffB said: If I could make a suggestion: Move posts like this to the suggestion forum and encourage GS staff to respond every so often. I bet it would make all the difference in the world to users with concerns to feel they've been heard by someone who can make a difference vs being told to be quiet and accept it.
That's not a bad idea! Will certainly think about it next time we get a post like this! Thanks
The September app of the month, Ropin Rob, got reviewed by touch arcade. In that review they basically said, " because this is a gamesalad game there are some long load times." I have yet to finish my first game, but I don't want to belong to a class of apps known for having long loads.
Furthermore, you can't really leverage IAP without multiplayer in my opinion. So improving loads should be the number one priority IMHO. If you are creative, you hardly even need joints- wasn't the carriage in spooky hoofs seven actors or something?
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
We haven't silence Anyone. We Just think the complaining about this is overly redundant. They have Publicly Acknowledged the problem and concern, And they have said they are working on Providing a valid Solution to the problem as soon as possible. How can that not be a sufficient Response that will Please the community at the very least until the next update to see if they follow through.
No one is trying to silence you. If we wanted you silenced we would close the thread and ban you if you opened another. Were not doing that. (as long as it doesn't turn into the normal everyone that doesn't think like me are the dumbest ppl on earth type thing this type of thread normally goes to)
you may however see this merge into some of the other Ram, Loading Time, GameSalad improvement type threads. Again that is not to silence it to keep the forum nice and tidy.
Sometimes people need to vent when they are frustrated. Sometimes people want to know that others are also frustrated by the same things. If you are annoyed by these types of threads then that's unfotunate for you because people on software forums ALWAYS talk about performance and bugs and things they'd like to see in later releases. There's no need to try and shame people for trying to keep awareness alive over issues they find important. I think there is a need to make sure we can counter-balance the wants and needs of advanced users.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Alright Firstly Stop Calling anyone and "advanced user" Its almost insulting, especially how you are saying it. At best I am a better problem solver.
Secondly no one has attempted to shame you. We have merely given our point of view. Just like you want to be able to give yours. Why should we not be allowed to respond. You cannot have your cake and eat it to.
I look forward to your next claim of how awful I am for having an opinion that is different than yours.
Edit: And thirdly I want the same thing as you. I just think the constant complaining even after they have acknowledged there is a problem and are fixing it. Is point less and a waste of perfectly good space on the forum Where something far more useful could be discussed.
IMO moderators hold a responsible position in the community and the way I see it are there to keep things positive, and be helpful, not raining on someones parade.
From my own limited experience of GS I would concur with the posters basic concerns over RAM usage and load times. Seems perfectly fine to voice this without it being pounced on by the highly opinionated mods, even if the topic has been talked about ad nauseum.
In order to "solve problems" with a foreign language, it takes time to study the language. You are not "better" at solving problems... You just understand the language.
Calling someone an "advanced user" is by no means an insult. It describes what they are. They use the software and they have advanced knowledge with it. I'm surprised to see someone as aggressive as you towards other forum members has such delicate sensibilities. I'll try to alter my language as not to offend.
mtingle said: IMO moderators hold a responsible position in the community and the way I see it are there to keep things positive, and be helpful, not raining on someones parade.
From my own limited experience of GS I would concur with the posters basic concerns over RAM usage and load times. Seems perfectly fine to voice this without it being pounced on by the highly opinionated mods, even if the topic has been talked about ad nauseum.
I'm not sure who you're referring to here, so apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick.
But with reference to the mention of loading times on iTunes for Spooky Hoofs - I backed up my claims with evidence after having checked out the reviews, as the original poster suggested. You are welcome do the same and to have a look for yourself.
As I mentioned, it seems very easy to ignore the 42 reviews that *didn't* mention load times and claim that the three that *did* mention them somehow meant, and I quote, "Users are complaining badly only beacuse of loading time and ram usage."
I have no problem with people voicing their concerns and opinion. That's what these forums are for.
But this guy has mentioned this issue (and I say again - I agree it would be good to have shorter load times) at least three times in different threads in the space of a couple of days, including this thread that he himself started.
And as others have pointed out, there has already been a yellow post saying that it's being worked on.
I'm sorry if pointing out that people are factually wrong is pouncing on them, or raining on their parade. But I don't see multiple comments, backed up with half-truths as particularly positive or helpful.
The "raining on the parade" part comes in when people post a forum thread and multiple people come into the thread with the "I'm so sick of this topic" attitude and criticize the poster for even mentioning it in the first place. If people are sick of the topic, then maybe it's just best to hit the "back" button on the browser and move on. The topic of this thread was not just about the loading times and RAM, but also the priority of those issues are on the Gamesalad update agenda. There's an update coming soon, as you know. I think the intent of this post was to ensure that the right things were making it into the update. It's really not as heinous of an idea as some of you think it is.
I know SingleSparq tried to close this thread for the night, but I have to impart one more thing. The Sous Chefs have a direct line of communication with the Gamesalad developers, so they can speak their concerns directly to the people that can help them.
The rest of us... All we have is this forum.
We voice concerns here "hoping" that people will hear them. The more we post... the better our chances of getting our concerns heard.
If we had a direct line to the people in charge of software development... there would be a lot less of these threads, I'm sure.
Sometimes, people can get too pre-occupied with advanced features and lose sight of the basics. I hope that doesn't happen.
What Gamesalad advertises... is ease of use. I just hope that the people in charge of updating the software are taking ALL user's complaints into consideration and not just the "more experienced" users. (By "more experienced" ...I meant no offense.)
first of all thanks quantumsheep for your comments. We are aware that gamesalad is working on loading time and ram usage issue. From my experince I believe that additctive game play is main point of our success. When user want to play our game again and again its our success. And its only happen when developer create well finishing game. With variations and fun objects. And loading time ram usage creating an issue in this. Users are getting frustrated
@tenrdrmer I am appoloize if you feel I said anything wrong. I am working in industry. As level designer, concept design and art director. I am not familiar with code. Yes I can create good logic in xcode but I am no capable write code in xcode. Beacuse of some limitations and laws I am not able to declare my company name but our 5-6 games are in top paid games in usa. Developer get inapp purchase benefits when they are on top 100. Otherwise its useless. We have 80+ games available in appstores. And when we are in top 100 we are getting $5000-6000 in 2-3 weeks with iads. And when game not getting sucess we are hardly get $10 from that game.
@quantumsheep, tenrdrmer and for other gamesalad developers. Sorry if you think my point is worng. I request gamesalad team first focus on this main basement problem. Adding loading time and ram usage in high priority. And inapp, gc achievement, android and other features they can release in next version. Beacuse these features are only works well if they solve loading time and ram usage issue.
quantumsheep said: So I gave my opinion and reasoning, complete with examples, as to why I thought the conclusions from the 'evidence' provided was wrong.
I don't see how that's silencing *anyone*.
Thanks for getting back to me. I was thinking more that there was pressure for creativeapps to stop expressing concerns. Your post sort of made it out like load times aren't as big a deal as he says, and you said it's been pointed out before. To me it sounded like a gentle, "let it go already". Silencing might have been a strong word for your post.
Then Tenrdrmer added, "At the most you have $500 invested in GameSalad and if you did that without researching the product first well I cant say I have a lot of sympathy. And best you have nothing invested in GameSalad so quit complaining and Be thankful for what they have given you." Which is definitely a gentle, "quit complaining and be thankful".
Between the two of you, I thought there was some pressure for creativeapps to 'quit complaining'. Acting like someone's a nag *is* silencing behavior.
quantumsheep said: So are you saying GS should only take paying customers seriously? Genuine question, honest!
Not at all! Just like with Steam, some services are free, while others are paid for. Some members of the Steam community buy games, others play free games or just use free game chat services. If you need support or have a complaint Valve doesn't check to see how much you've spent on their services. If someone isn't paying and they have a complaint, fixing that problem might make them more comfortable with spending money on Steam products and services. The more complaints they get, the more likely it will be fixed.
quantumsheep said: I think that if GS has already said what they're doing to solve a problem, bringing it up all the time is not going to help a huge amount. It can come across as constant nagging or impatient whining sometimes, surely?
A bit like kids in the back seat saying "Are we there yet?" over and over again!
Let's say you have a service... say internet, and it slows to a crawl. You call and they say "we're going to fix it". How long until you call again, if they don't give you a date? I'd probably wait 2 days. Will that help speed it up? Who knows? If enough people call it might. Keep in mind that with GS some of us are holding back updates and releases while we're waiting. In the past I've had my customers waiting for an update from me, while I'm waiting for an update from GS. There is some pressure involved.
The other thing to keep in mind is that you seem to have a direct line to the GS staff. A lot of us have written unanswered posts, emails and PMs take weeks, if they ever get answered. Even knowing they're busy, it sucks being ignored. What happened to this? http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=16382
@GeoffB my point is very simple there are reasons for give high priority to solve loading time issue and ram usage. Beacuse as I said in my early post other features are going useless without this weak basement. I dont have Yodapollo or Steve Felter email otherwise I want to email and request him to short out this issue first. I dont know what other ways we can communicate with them.
Comments
My game, Air Supply, had *horrendous* load times on a first gen iPod touch. I felt very bad for the players, and some called me on it and wrote about it.
That's fine. They're quite right to do that!
The other side of the coin is that *despite* these horrific load times, people still wrote to me and said they loved the game. They'd finished it. All with load times of about 15 seconds.
On later model devices, the load time is shortened considerably.
So, for some people it's awful. For others, if it's a good and enjoyable game, people will not worry too much about it. It's an inconvenience for sure, and I'd love it to not be there. But it should not make or break your game.
With .Matrixx, the game has sold far far less than Air Supply. But I did my level best to minimise load times in .Matrixx. So, improved load times did not help at all.
Funny that.
That's my experience of it anyway. I'd like to hear yours please. Yep, and they're working on it. Ok, I will *goes to check*
*comes back*
Ok, so I checked the Spooky Hoofs feedback in iTunes on the US store. There are 45 reviews.
Of these there are 38 five star reviews.
Of all 45 reviews, there are a massive THREE that mention loading times.
The way you described it I expected the majority to be mentioning load times. But it seems most just love the game.
Funny that.
I then went and read the TA thread for Spin the Nut.
The guy there, 'New England Gamer', has a thing against GameSalad, obviously (indeed, he calls it a 'cookie cutter' SDK. It's amazing what you can do with it in the right hands though, right? - especially as many GS made games have now got the attention of Touch Arcade).
He probably thinks they're rubbish games because he's played a lot that *are* rubbish that have been made with it.
And let's face it. It's very easy to make a rubbish game, regardless of load times! You have no way of proving that they'd sell more.
Most people buy the game they want based on the screenshots and the text in front of them. There's no 'Loading time' indicator at all. Yes, and it's important. I'm not disagreeing with you there. Any improvement will benefit the user experience. I'm just arguing that if you have a good game, the sky is not falling just yet. No. A good game that appeals will increase your sales. As will being featured by Apple. I'm sure Gamesmold isn't worried about sales of Spooky Hoofs *despite* those three oh-so-awful mentions of load times.
Now THAT'S the truth.
Look, I'm with you. I want shorter loading times.
But it is not the end of days.
Plenty of people still do well with their games, both critically in reviews and financially in sales.
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
They're "secrets" because only certain people know about them and the rest of us have to rely on other users to unlock the secret.
People use other SDKs understanding that they'll have to code.
People come here for the most part to avoid having to code.
People may think i'm just a Giant Ass fanboy of GameSalad (which half of that is true) But really I just get so sick of a bunch of people complaining non stop about one thing right after the other. Heres the beauty of it all. GameSalad is FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!! You only have to pay if you want to use some extra features that do not change the quality of your game. And if you bought Pro before trying out GameSalad and seeing how it worked. Then shame on you.
I also really get sick of the ppl here that have "worked in the industry" for years and they just cannot believe how crappy the load times are. If you have worked in the industry then surly You are proficient enough to code a far better game or learn these secret Advanced Methods. That is of course if By "in the Industry" you do not mean "Well I worked as a janitor in a build that had some guys that said they coded a website once"
The only Advanced Thing that anyone could learn and have an advantage with GameSalad is Trig and Calculus Math stuff for the expression editor. Otherwise its just problem solving and learning what each behavior is capable of (Not every is good at problem solving). All of the behaviors work well for what they where designed for. Sure there are some workarounds that will give you some better loading times but the loading time is not what the behavior was originally designed Around. Sure It probably should have been but that doesn't seem to be the case. I personally have yet to bother with the "advanced workarounds" because IMO they are not worth the time. I have no issues with the current loading times in my games. Sure I would love for them to be faster. But they are not so slow I am annoyed.
And Regardless of all that… They have already addressed your very request. They are working on it. I can personally tell you I have been told in talking with them privately. They are working on it.
Long Story Short we are all probably to blame on some level for GameSalad not focusing more on load time and ram. Why, you ask? Because up until there was a major ram issue with the last release. It has Been We want iAds, We Want IAP, We Want GameCenter, give us features or Were not renewing pro. We want our f'n Splash screen back. Etc…. I can say that cause I was in on the griping about some of those.
Just give them a break and see where it goes. At the most you have $500 invested in GameSalad and if you did that without researching the product first well I cant say I have a lot of sympathy. And best you have nothing invested in GameSalad so quit complaining and Be thankful for what they have given you. I personally think they have given too much for Free.
Game Salad isn't a charity. They make money doing this, so users have a right to report on ongoing concerns. I've reported before that I find the support to be way too slow (clocking in at a month before I fixed the problem on my own). I'm a paying customer, and a month is not what I'd call 'priority support'. I received the same kind of "be quiet and wait for a patch" sort of feed back, when I said it more than once.
If all Gamesalad features were actually free to everyone, then I'd agree that repeated complaints could be seen as ungrateful, but since GS has accepted money from this community, we should be able to report on concerns for as long as they are a problem. If they accept money from this community, we have a business relationship.
The best way to stop complaints is to solve the problem. The next best way is to explain what you're doing to solve the problem, which Gamesalad has already done. Telling people to be silent while it's still an issue is only going to make them more frustrated.
If I could make a suggestion: Move posts like this to the suggestion forum and encourage GS staff to respond every so often. I bet it would make all the difference in the world to users with concerns to feel they've been heard by someone who can make a difference vs being told to be quiet and accept it.
So I gave my opinion and reasoning, complete with examples, as to why I thought the conclusions from the 'evidence' provided was wrong.
I don't see how that's silencing *anyone*. Of course, reporting ongoing concerns is fine. I don't think anyone has a problem with that. I guess my issue is with how these concerns are expressed sometimes! So are you saying GS should only take paying customers seriously? Genuine question, honest! I think that if GS has already said what they're doing to solve a problem, bringing it up all the time is not going to help a huge amount. It can come across as constant nagging or impatient whining sometimes, surely?
A bit like kids in the back seat saying "Are we there yet?" over and over again! That's not a bad idea! Will certainly think about it next time we get a post like this! Thanks
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Furthermore, you can't really leverage IAP without multiplayer in my opinion. So improving loads should be the number one priority IMHO. If you are creative, you hardly even need joints- wasn't the carriage in spooky hoofs seven actors or something?
No one is trying to silence you. If we wanted you silenced we would close the thread and ban you if you opened another. Were not doing that. (as long as it doesn't turn into the normal everyone that doesn't think like me are the dumbest ppl on earth type thing this type of thread normally goes to)
you may however see this merge into some of the other Ram, Loading Time, GameSalad improvement type threads. Again that is not to silence it to keep the forum nice and tidy.
but I do not want features such as IAP if they made your loading time even slower
Secondly no one has attempted to shame you. We have merely given our point of view. Just like you want to be able to give yours. Why should we not be allowed to respond. You cannot have your cake and eat it to.
I look forward to your next claim of how awful I am for having an opinion that is different than yours.
Edit: And thirdly I want the same thing as you. I just think the constant complaining even after they have acknowledged there is a problem and are fixing it. Is point less and a waste of perfectly good space on the forum Where something far more useful could be discussed.
From my own limited experience of GS I would concur with the posters basic concerns over RAM usage and load times. Seems perfectly fine to voice this without it being pounced on by the highly opinionated mods, even if the topic has been talked about ad nauseum.
Calling someone an "advanced user" is by no means an insult. It describes what they are. They use the software and they have advanced knowledge with it. I'm surprised to see someone as aggressive as you towards other forum members has such delicate sensibilities. I'll try to alter my language as not to offend.
But with reference to the mention of loading times on iTunes for Spooky Hoofs - I backed up my claims with evidence after having checked out the reviews, as the original poster suggested. You are welcome do the same and to have a look for yourself.
As I mentioned, it seems very easy to ignore the 42 reviews that *didn't* mention load times and claim that the three that *did* mention them somehow meant, and I quote, "Users are complaining badly only beacuse of loading time and ram usage."
I have no problem with people voicing their concerns and opinion. That's what these forums are for.
But this guy has mentioned this issue (and I say again - I agree it would be good to have shorter load times) at least three times in different threads in the space of a couple of days, including this thread that he himself started.
And as others have pointed out, there has already been a yellow post saying that it's being worked on.
I'm sorry if pointing out that people are factually wrong is pouncing on them, or raining on their parade. But I don't see multiple comments, backed up with half-truths as particularly positive or helpful.
Which apparently is my job!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
The rest of us... All we have is this forum.
We voice concerns here "hoping" that people will hear them. The more we post... the better our chances of getting our concerns heard.
If we had a direct line to the people in charge of software development... there would be a lot less of these threads, I'm sure.
Sometimes, people can get too pre-occupied with advanced features and lose sight of the basics. I hope that doesn't happen.
What Gamesalad advertises... is ease of use. I just hope that the people in charge of updating the software are taking ALL user's complaints into consideration and not just the "more experienced" users. (By "more experienced" ...I meant no offense.)
@tenrdrmer I am appoloize if you feel I said anything wrong. I am working in industry. As level designer, concept design and art director. I am not familiar with code. Yes I can create good logic in xcode but I am no capable write code in xcode. Beacuse of some limitations and laws I am not able to declare my company name but our 5-6 games are in top paid games in usa.
Developer get inapp purchase benefits when they are on top 100. Otherwise its useless. We have 80+ games available in appstores. And when we are in top 100 we are getting $5000-6000 in 2-3 weeks with iads. And when game not getting sucess we are hardly get $10 from that game.
@quantumsheep, tenrdrmer and for other gamesalad developers. Sorry if you think my point is worng. I request gamesalad team first focus on this main basement problem. Adding loading time and ram usage in high priority. And inapp, gc achievement, android and other features they can release in next version. Beacuse these features are only works well if they solve loading time and ram usage issue.
Then Tenrdrmer added, "At the most you have $500 invested in GameSalad and if you did that without researching the product first well I cant say I have a lot of sympathy. And best you have nothing invested in GameSalad so quit complaining and Be thankful for what they have given you." Which is definitely a gentle, "quit complaining and be thankful".
Between the two of you, I thought there was some pressure for creativeapps to 'quit complaining'. Acting like someone's a nag *is* silencing behavior. Not at all! Just like with Steam, some services are free, while others are paid for. Some members of the Steam community buy games, others play free games or just use free game chat services. If you need support or have a complaint Valve doesn't check to see how much you've spent on their services. If someone isn't paying and they have a complaint, fixing that problem might make them more comfortable with spending money on Steam products and services. The more complaints they get, the more likely it will be fixed. Let's say you have a service... say internet, and it slows to a crawl. You call and they say "we're going to fix it". How long until you call again, if they don't give you a date? I'd probably wait 2 days. Will that help speed it up? Who knows? If enough people call it might. Keep in mind that with GS some of us are holding back updates and releases while we're waiting. In the past I've had my customers waiting for an update from me, while I'm waiting for an update from GS. There is some pressure involved.
The other thing to keep in mind is that you seem to have a direct line to the GS staff. A lot of us have written unanswered posts, emails and PMs take weeks, if they ever get answered. Even knowing they're busy, it sucks being ignored. What happened to this? http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=16382