I have a issue on logic and conflict of interest here.
In the below link to a "closed" discussion.
I find the reason for closing the discussion to be invalid. This is a Gamesalad forum. This is not the gamesalad support ticket page. Gamesalad would respond to the OPs issues if he has approached the support ticket page, and not the forum. The template in question was developed and coded by using the services and features within the gamesalad creator. Even though the template was purchased and not given freely. The template is still that... a template. Discussing issues about the inner workings of a template, asking for help with understanding a issue with a template or coding. IS EXACTLY what this forum is for. Because the template was purchased just means that he has a portal to the creator of the template. And the creator could feel obligated to assist ( as he should). But the owner of the template does not have the right to stop a user from speaking with fellow GS users about what could be causing a issue with in his game.
I am not a Moderator I do not have the ability to come to the forum and close what I want to close. And in this instance there is a reason to view what you did as a conflict of interest. When you are moderating in this forum you are a Moderator. You dont have the right to use your moderator powers to prevent someone from coming to this forum and asking questions. His question was valid. He has the right to come to you "AND" others. He went to your site and created a ticket. While waiting for your response at your site. He has the right to come to GS forums and also get advice.
http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/87030/why-arent-timestamps-working#latest
Comments
I disagree. For a few reasons.
Firstly, the forums are for the sharing of free information. The only real exception to this is the Market Items forum, which is reasonable as it is part of the revenue stream for GameSalad and it's entirely their right to only allow advertising of products on their marketplace. But the bottom line is that things discussed on the forums are there, freely available for anyone to see. It isn't reasonable to expect paid template creators to divulge any information about the workings of their templates in a public place. Template makers have a right to protect their intellectual property. It will also be confusing for people idly browsing the forums.
Secondly, GameSalad will understandably not want to be misunderstood to be providing support for paid templates that they have not sold themselves. Do not underestimate how many people would make this mistake. "But that guy got support for the template he bought, why aren't you giving me support for mine? GameSalad sux!"
Thirdly, it will make it harder for people who buy templates to get support for them. If it becomes the norm that support is provided via the forums, this is where users will come looking for support, rather than contacting the seller of the template directly. Not all sellers frequent or post on the forums.
I see no conflict of interest here. The rules are clear, and the moderator in question declared his involvement and gave a clear reason for the closing of the thread, which was in line with the forum rules.
There is nothing to stop the template user from posting a more general question about their specific problem. The post you linked could easily have asked the same question without reference to a paid template and not fallen afoul of forum rules. I'm sure nobody would object if he did just that, even after the closing of his first thread. Help isn't being denied, only help specifically in reference to specific paid templates.
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Umm, this is really flawed logic. The person was not asking GameSalad for a solution or to provide support. He was asking for help from the community.
I think that the conflict of interest mentioned by @FINNBOGG is the fact that the thread was closed by the creator of the template, who also happens to be a moderator here. And that is the question at hand would be about a template not by a Forum moderator, it wouldn't have been closed.
People frequently come to the community treating it like the GameSalad support ticket system. The more of these types of questions appear here, the more misunderstanding there will be. This wasn't an extreme case, but there have been numerous cases in the past of "I bought template X and it doesn't work and I expect GameSalad to fix it for me as I bought Pro". If GameSalad endorse such posts, they at least imply involvement.
The moderator acted openly and in accordance with the rules. He has closed numberous similar threads relating to templates not made by him. I really, really fail to see the conflict of interest. Are you saying template makers shouldn't be allowed to be forum moderators?
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Yes, but this was not the case. The guy didn't refer to GS as a company in a single word or mention being PRO. He did not ask for support from GS, but quite clearly asked the community.
I think you are missing my point. If GameSalad allow support for paid templates to be given on the forums, they provide implicit support for those templates. To a lot of visitors the distinction between the GameSalad staff and the volunteer posters here is not clear. I've had people email and PM me asking for support for paid templates I didn't make, assuming I was affiliated with GameSalad. Even though it still wouldn't be anything to do with me even if I was. Some visitors also assume that this is the correct place to come to ask for support directly from GameSalad for issues that are ones GameSalad should be contacted about. Which would also be the wrong place.
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After reading the thread, it is clear as day he was asking for help just like many other community threads. The fact that he simply mentions that a template he bought had the same problem is irrelevant. Lets not become blind sighted, just look at the main question asked.
"Any ideas, any known issues with timers on the devices?"
Seems to me like there was some type of emotion involved due to the OP having a coding problem that was also found on the said template. Someone jumped the gun and locked it, which doesn't seem justified.
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Hmmm. Well it looks to me he was asking for help from the community also.
It just happens to be he mentioned a certain template. I think that should have been ok because then...if someone was familiar with that template the discussion could have continued.
The Mod mentioned paid template....had it been a free template from a third party...would that happen been ok? It's free...but 3rd party. I guess he didn't buy the template on the current marketplace because then GS would have made their precious cut and then it would be alright.
The grip is so tight with some of these rules...it slows progression I feel.
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As I mentioned, if he'd asked a template agnostic question, there presumably wouldn't have been an issue.
No. Neither 3rd party template nor marketplace template support should be on the forums. They should be taken to the template provider. If a dialogue is not possible or refused, then arguably the question could be brought to the community, but only if put appropriately.
This is also true for templates made and sold by the GS staff. Support for those should be requested through the established support system.
While I agree with this in the case of some rules, I do not agree in the case of this one.
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He did not expect "GAMESALAD" to fix anything. He came to a community where information is freely given. He did not share the purchased template. He did not share a edited version. He asked a verbal question.
I won't be buying any templates from someone who has the power to prevent me from seeking help. I don't see Darren getting pissed if it's 2 am and I'm hitting a roadblock that someone on the forum can help me break in 5 minutes. I think each individual situation needs individual evaluation. Every situation can't be decided based off a blunt policy.
I would have more respect if the mod that blocked it. Had passed it to another moderator.
Funny it' is. The way they feel... Some do.
Please try reading again (and hopefully understanding) what I wrote.
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I don't voice my opinion to see how many agree or disagree with me. I voiced I felt what happened was wrong.
And one more thing. Where does one go to find out if anyone else has had a issue with a template. If not a community where that's all we talk about. Asking that question will first let the person know if it is a issue with the template downloaded or that he simple must have misclicked something.
I simply just feel this was mishandled or could have been handled better.
Nothing against the mod. He has done a great job so far.
@FINNBOGG I was more troubled by the response within the thread that you linked to which was someone (innocently, I believe) asking to see the code from a paid template. That puts the author of the original post in a tricky situation because he either says, "Sorry, I'm not going to show you the code" or decides to post something that has been received through a purchase and really shouldn't be shared. You can say it's conflict of interest but my general response to threads where people ask for support for purchased templates is to direct them to the creator of the template. While I don't always close those threads (some I do), in this case the added discussion about seeing the code led me to do so. I then contacted the original post author to both offer further support for the template -- since I created it -- and to suggest that he create a new thread to ask a more general question about timestamps, as @Armelline has suggested:
There wasn't really any malicious backstory to this. It would be simple to share paid templates with other users via email or to share code snippets via private messages, etc. I'm not under any belief that I can prevent such things... I just chose to close a thread that was related to a specific question about a purchased template. I think a discussion about timestamps is a great idea and I mentioned in my private message to him that other template makers have probably used different methods from what I created so it might benefit the community to have such as a discussion.
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This just proves what @FINNBOGG said. A person asks for help like anyone else, someone willing to help asks the most common question of how do your rules look like and then the mod/template maker closes the thread. Conflict of interest is there, doesn't matter how you try and twist it.
This is an issue that has been reported before, but brushed off by the GS staff.
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Here's the alternative scenario that seems to being suggested here . . . tatiang closes threads (or otherwise redirects them) when the issue is to do with a third party template . . . expect for when they are his own templates, in those situations the poster is allowed free reign on the forums to discuss modifications, technical questions and general enquiries.
That seems to me to be the obvious corollary ? I imagine if other third parties were discouraged from using the forum to promote/service their product while someone given the job of policing that very rule was also at the same time promoting/servicing (or otherwise dealing with) their own products the protests would be immediate and justified ?
Genuine question, in this particular situation what do you think would have been the right course of action ?
It was a template agnostic question. Read his post again. He says it quite clearly: "I've been working on a game [that] uses timestamps it works fine on the creator, but not on the devices. [...] Any ideas, any known issues with timers on the devices?"
That's his main question. He mentions: "I then decided to buy the Tamagotchi template as I thought it was my code but the same thing is happening with that template."
He doesn't ask about advice concerning the template not working! He asks about about a template agnostic problem with timestamps in his own code, which happens to be present also in the template, since it also uses timestamps.
This isn't about an alternate scenario, this is about a specific one.
Based on what was said and posted, there was nothing there to give any reason to closed the thread.
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But the question wasn't about the template. The template was mentioned to point out it was a problem that was happening in more places, not just the OPs own code.
And he's more than welcome to ask that question without bringing a paid template into it. Even just removing a few words would be enough.
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Agreed, it's a thread discussing a specific event, but I don't think anyone would argue against the idea that it's part of a broader discussion, it has context, in fact you yourself recognise - in your post - that this is part of a broader discussion rather than being an isolated event ("This is an issue that has been reported before . . .").
So, in that context, what do you think would be the preferable course of action ? Should tatiang have dealt with his customer - serviced his product - in the forums ? Something he discourages for other third party traders ?
Generally speaking I'd tend to agree with you, I'm all for absolute freedom when it comes to interactions like this, that's why no one would ever let me run a forum
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I've always been template agnostic, even when I was coherced (sweets) to attend template school I always suspected that Flappy Bird wasn't a real bird.
In my opinion, the thread should not have been closed. @tatiang should have just posted that he replied to him and would help him. It is then the OP's choice weather he want his help or not. Nothing wrong with asking other knowledgable members of this community about general issues with Gamesalad. We must take note of the question that was asked. Nothing in that thread suggest any wrong-doing, just a lapse in jugdement enforced by conflict of interest.
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There was no link to that template - there was no mention of the seller - and there was no advertising of any type.
Every response from forum members is that the question should provide detail. If someone had been using the same template then that answer would have been solved quicker and others who wanted the same question answered, can, but because the Mod decided it might be bad for sales, no one in future can get an answer, which means they can't search for it, and hence another thread will be created.
Nothing seems wrong here except the closure of the thread.
But in the end I just hope it was resolved. Nothing is more frustrating then getting something closed on you.
Damn ! I knew there was some underlying nefarious thrust to this whole affair !
But the question wasn't about the template. It was about a timestamp problem. The OPs game wasn't based on the template. He only got the template because he though there was an error in his code, but once he saw the same behavior in the template, he assumed it is a bigger problem (perhaps a bug).
The solution might be quite important to know and applies to everyone who works with timestamps. Or maybe it was something simple. We can't know, because the answer was stopped from being given or investigated.
What was in question was if there are any known issues with timers on the device. The OP on referenced that his code was not working as he wanted it too, and that he bought a template to double check his work only to come with the same issue. Thats is why the OP raised the question if there were any issues with the way Gamesalad deals with timers on the device.
I would be more inclined to agree with Bad wolf Guy that it seems like tatiang saw this a potential loss in revenue and used his forums privileges to close the thread before it causes any harm to his business. Since the OP pointed out certain issues that he found on other templates.
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