I dont see a problem here , the guy asked for help but added the word template and someone asked about the code to help , so this would have been bad for the owner of the template to have the code reviewed in public, he doesnt know if the person asking would put the code on public or not. Remember that this is a paid template and its not free , and the person asking put the name of the template in his thread he said " Tamagotchi template " . if the guy puts the code then whats the point on having a paid template in the first place. What if I wanted this template , i wouldnt buy it , i would just read this thread and have everything i want for free. It would have been bad for the owner who puts his time and effort to produce this template.
Put yourself in his position , if I offered a template for money and someone bought it and there was a chance that he would post the code in public and mention the template , I would have asked GS team to do something about it. I know that he didnt mean to do so , but sometimes a word changes everything, the guy didnt mean to put it on public but there still was a chance that he might put it , besides , the owner of the template said :
"Support for paid templates should be directed to the template creator. And since I'm the template creator and you've already sent me a private message, let's work via that route."
so its not like he just closed it for no reason , he mentioned the reason and offered his help in private.
If you guys think that what he did was not right , then take this as an example , I would buy many templates/ mention the names of the templates and put the code for everyone , and say that I want people to explain to me how it was done , I dont understand the template ( just giving an example), that would just cancel the purpose of paid templates. In my opinion , the owner of the template did the right thing and gave a rational reason.
You fail to realize the OP of that post mentions that his own code has the same issue ad the template he bought. This makes your whole argument fly off left field. What you are saying suggest that anyone who buys a templates is not allowed to ask for help of general Gamesalad questions.
@pHghost said:
But the question wasn't about the template. It was about a timestamp problem.
Fair enough, and a good point . . . so maybe then it was a misjudgement, a perfectly reasonable question given to someone tasked with discouraging other people from using the site as a sales platform (servicing their commercial product) in a situation that could have easily be seen as him using the site as a sales platform to service his own commercial product. This is why I was asking such a basic question (which seems to have been swerved more than once) - should tatiang have dealt with the question, a situation where he would have doubtlessly be seen as hypocritical ? Maybe the answer was to let the thread exist but he took no part in it - which appears to deal with all the issues - except you are then ignoring a customer, perhaps better to deal with them via PM, off the forums ?
@pHghost said:
The OPs game wasn't based on the template . . .
I suppose what we (me, you, tatiang, everyone, except for Mateen) are dealing with at this stage are perceptions rather than practicalities, so I can see the argument that this was a perfectly valid enquiry (and it really is), but I can also see the side that says "I just spent a year telling people to please not use the forum to service 3rd party commercial products, and here I am about to kick off a thread that will - quite likely - end up dealing with my own products" - and it's not like the conversation was stymied, censored or otherwise shut down, the conversation was - from what was said at least - continued via PM. I suppose the voice missing from this thread is @wilsongalucho - but I suspect all he'd be saying is that he sorted the technical issue out with tatiang via PM (absolute guess!) ?
@Lovejoy now he does mention general help but the problem is that someone replied by asking about the code , here is the problem , Im sure that the person was only trying to help but that is the problem i believe , if he shows the code , then what ? it would be too late for the owner of the template , so closing it and offering help in private was the right choice i believe , but hey im not against you , just sharing my opinion
@Lovejoy said:
What was in question was if there are any known issues with timers on the device. The OP on referenced that his code was not working as he wanted it too, and that he bought a template to double check his work only to come with the same issue. Thats is why the OP raised the question if there were any issues with the way Gamesalad deals with timers on the device.
Another fair point, but you are able to see how this might reasonably be seen as someone enquiring about your template - if not wholly - at least in part ?
@Lovejoy said:
I would be more inclined to agree with Bad wolf Guy that it seems like tatiang saw this a potential loss in revenue and used his forums privileges to close the thread before it causes any harm to his business. Since the OP pointed out certain issues that he found on other templates.
Why are you inclined to think this way ? How is the idea that the OP pointed out certain issues that he found on other templates relevant to this ? That sounds like a bizarre non-sequiter to me, but to be honest I've been drinking red wine for almost 2 hours so who knows !?
Lol. I guess he should have asked I have an issue with time stamps...I bought a template to verify my method. I can't tell you the method but I need someone to tell me if I'm doing it correctly.
Might as well just used all caps "HELP...no worky!"
Part of why the tread was closed I don't believe have anything to do with future sales loss. His first job is to discourage anything about third party or paid templates....his second condition was it happened to be his own. I think that alone warranted at least putting the brakes on any references to that template regardless of it being his or mine.
Personally I'd like to even know what the orginal posters exact issue was and the solution...on this I agree that is totally what the forums are for and so learning anything about that today will be for ever lost.
@Icebox1910 said:
Lovejoy now he does mention general help but the problem is that someone replied by asking about the code , here is the problem , Im sure that the person was only trying to help but that is the problem i believe , if he shows the code , then what ? it would be too late for the owner of the template , so closing it and offering help in private was the right choice i believe , but hey im not against you , just sharing my opinion
Thanks
Asking what the code looks like its perhaps the best way of figuring out what the problem is, it has been highly encouraged by mostly everyone here in order to fix a logic problem. This was no different that any other thread, you again seem to forget that the OP has his own code.
@Socks said:
Another fair point, but you are able to see how this might reasonably be seen as > someone enquiring about your template - if not wholly - at least in part ?
Could be, but that is how many of the people here help others, including yourself.
@Socks said:
Why are you inclined to think this way ?
Because the template maker is also the mod that locked the thread. Having conflict of interest can create a lapse in judgement when making certain decisions.
@Lovejoy I didnt forget that but if he has his own code then theres no need to mention that he bought the template he can just say i used different methods, does he have to say that he bought " tamagotchi template " ? he would have just said that i got a template and it has the same problem , right ? why do you have to say the name.. that is what i dont understand
@Socks said:
How is the idea that the OP pointed out certain issues that he found on other templates relevant to this ? That sounds like a bizarre non-sequiter to me, but to be honest I've been drinking red wine for almost 2 hours so who knows !?
@Icebox1910 said:
Lovejoy I didnt forget that but if he has his own code then theres no need to mention that he bought the template he can just say i used different methods, does he have to say that he bought " tamagotchi template " ? he would have just said that i got a template and it has the same problem , right ? why do you have to say the name.. that is what i dont understand
He clearly states that the issue also appears in the template he bought to verify his own code. Weather he mentions a template used or not does not change the fact that the thread was wrongfully locked without basis and that conflict of interest exist among our Mods.
@Lovejoy so correct me please , what your saying is that if i had a same problem with my own code and a template I bought , I can mention the templates name and put the code along with my thread , cause I said that my code is the same ?
@Icebox1910 said:
Lovejoy so correct me please , what your saying is that if i had a same problem with my own code and a template I bought , I can mention the templates name and put the code along with my thread , cause I said that my code is the same ?
I don't see how there is anything wrong with posting a code that you made yourself, do you?
@Lovejoy No i dont see a problem with that at all , your right , there wouldnt be any problem if i post my code , but there would be a problem if i put a template that i bought and said that i too made the same code as the template but they both have issues and put the code.
cause seriously if this thread wasnt closed i would buy templates and just say that i too made the same code here it is ..... and share it with everyone ... now i can do it countless times with several templates , and you wouldnt have the right to close my thread , is this what you want ? offcourse not ! no template owner would want that ! but i would just say i dont see a problem with that as you said right now , i would say hey im just sharing my code , but hey no need to share my code and say that its similar to this or that template. trust me no one would ever buy a single template in here if this was justified.
@Icebox1910 said:
Lovejoy No i dont see a problem with that at all , your right , there wouldnt be any problem if i post my code , but there would be a problem if i put a template that i bought and said that i too made the same code as the template but they both have issues and put the code.
cause seriously if this thread wasnt closed i would buy templates and just say that i too made the same code here it is ..... and share it with everyone ... now i can do it countless times with several templates , and you wouldnt have the right to close my thread , is this what you want ? offcourse not ! no template owner would want that ! but i would just say i dont see a problem with that as you said right now , i would say hey im just sharing my code , but hey no need to share my code and say that its similar to this or that template. trust me no one would ever buy a single template in here if this was justified.
We don't punish and then seek the truth later, its not the way it works.(at least is not suppose to)
You are taking this off the subject, steering this into whats ifs and so on, how about focusing on the the actual thread in question.
@Lovejoy said:
I hear window cleaner tastes better.
Lol I normally save the window cleaner for the early hours of the morning when things start to get a little dicey, just before the toilet cleaner (top tip: mixed with pineapple juice, toilet cleaner actually makes a decent cocktail).
Firstly, the forums are for the sharing of free information. The only real exception to this is the Market Items forum, which is reasonable as it is part of the revenue stream for GameSalad and it's entirely their right to only allow advertising of products on their marketplace. But the bottom line is that things discussed on the forums are there, freely available for anyone to see. It isn't reasonable to expect paid template creators to divulge any information about the workings of their templates in a public place. Template makers have a right to protect their intellectual property. It will also be confusing for people idly browsing the forums.
Just so it is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR. There is NO intellectual property with a template, except the art, the sound and the music. Copyright covers the EXPRESSION of an idea... NOT the methodology.
Section 102 of the Copyright Act (title 17 of the U.S. Code) clearly expresses
this principle: “In no case does copyright protection for an original work of
authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation,
concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described,
explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.”
Methodology/process/etc. is covered by patent and unless it's a completely NEW methodology, prior art would prohibit you from registering a patent for it.
While template creators might not want to discuss the workings of their templates to protect sales, there is no copyright or intellectual property concerns, unless they have patented it.
@FINNBOGG said:
Went from 4 kinds of Meade to 2 bottle of wine to mikes hard to something with rum and gold.
Makes note to self: get butler to order in some rum and gold.
tatiangMember, Sous Chef, PRO, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 11,949
Quite a few assumptions have been made so far but most important to me is what was said here:
@pHghost said:
He doesn't ask about advice concerning the template not working! He asks about about a template agnostic problem with timestamps in his own code, which happens to be present also in the template, since it also uses timestamps.
I went back and re-read it and you're right, he does say he was working through his own code. I closed it because I saw that he was asking about a paid template but I've re-opened it in light of your comment.
Honestly this is a lot of fuss about not much. I don't mean to make light of the accusations or debate herein but I took about 10 seconds to read the post, close it, and send a private message offering to help the person and suggesting a new thread for the community. I'm human, I make mistakes. Carry on.
Don't try and hide the truth when it's so blatantly apparent to anyone whose been paying attention what's going on here, we know what your real agenda is here, I've seen the plans for the insect uprising (on Youtube, so a fact), you can try and twist this as "a lot of fuss about not much", but to any one who has been tracking your pernicious and cyncial manipulation of the forum it's clear what's going on.
If you are so innocently trying to help another forum member (BY BANNING HIM*) then why don't you show us a picture of your 'human hands' (or should I say 'pincers') ?
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Well I guess I'm late to the party but I agree with @tatiang initial response. The most current issue at hand is the template is not working and that should be felt with directly the maker and not the forums.
And while yes there is no actual copyright on the function of a template we have never allowed someone to post code written but others unless it was initially free. Be it a template or hacked out of the downloaded app from the App Store.
So again to avoid that issue that has come up in the past it should have been closed and handled via pm as well as a gas supprt ticket just in case there was a true bug behind it all.
@tenrdrmer said:
Well I guess I'm late to the party but I agree with tatiang initial response. The most current issue at hand is the template is not working and that should be felt with directly the maker and not the forums.
And while yes there is no actual copyright on the function of a template we have never allowed someone to post code written but others unless it was initially free. Be it a template or hacked out of the downloaded app from the App Store.
So again to avoid that issue that has come up in the past it should have been closed and handled via pm as well as a gas supprt ticket just in case there was a true bug behind it all.
Cheers
Aaron
Perhaps you should try doing what tatiang did and re-read the post. The OP has his own code and simply compared his code with a template to verify if there was a problem with Gamesalad and simply asked a question.
This is the sort of behavior i speak about when i say occurrences like this just get blown away like its nothing.
Comments
I dont see a problem here , the guy asked for help but added the word template and someone asked about the code to help , so this would have been bad for the owner of the template to have the code reviewed in public, he doesnt know if the person asking would put the code on public or not. Remember that this is a paid template and its not free , and the person asking put the name of the template in his thread he said " Tamagotchi template " . if the guy puts the code then whats the point on having a paid template in the first place. What if I wanted this template , i wouldnt buy it , i would just read this thread and have everything i want for free. It would have been bad for the owner who puts his time and effort to produce this template.
Put yourself in his position , if I offered a template for money and someone bought it and there was a chance that he would post the code in public and mention the template , I would have asked GS team to do something about it. I know that he didnt mean to do so , but sometimes a word changes everything, the guy didnt mean to put it on public but there still was a chance that he might put it , besides , the owner of the template said :
"Support for paid templates should be directed to the template creator. And since I'm the template creator and you've already sent me a private message, let's work via that route."
so its not like he just closed it for no reason , he mentioned the reason and offered his help in private.
If you guys think that what he did was not right , then take this as an example , I would buy many templates/ mention the names of the templates and put the code for everyone , and say that I want people to explain to me how it was done , I dont understand the template ( just giving an example), that would just cancel the purpose of paid templates. In my opinion , the owner of the template did the right thing and gave a rational reason.
Thank you.
>
You fail to realize the OP of that post mentions that his own code has the same issue ad the template he bought. This makes your whole argument fly off left field. What you are saying suggest that anyone who buys a templates is not allowed to ask for help of general Gamesalad questions.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
Fair enough, and a good point . . . so maybe then it was a misjudgement, a perfectly reasonable question given to someone tasked with discouraging other people from using the site as a sales platform (servicing their commercial product) in a situation that could have easily be seen as him using the site as a sales platform to service his own commercial product. This is why I was asking such a basic question (which seems to have been swerved more than once) - should tatiang have dealt with the question, a situation where he would have doubtlessly be seen as hypocritical ? Maybe the answer was to let the thread exist but he took no part in it - which appears to deal with all the issues - except you are then ignoring a customer, perhaps better to deal with them via PM, off the forums ?
I suppose what we (me, you, tatiang, everyone, except for Mateen) are dealing with at this stage are perceptions rather than practicalities, so I can see the argument that this was a perfectly valid enquiry (and it really is), but I can also see the side that says "I just spent a year telling people to please not use the forum to service 3rd party commercial products, and here I am about to kick off a thread that will - quite likely - end up dealing with my own products" - and it's not like the conversation was stymied, censored or otherwise shut down, the conversation was - from what was said at least - continued via PM. I suppose the voice missing from this thread is @wilsongalucho - but I suspect all he'd be saying is that he sorted the technical issue out with tatiang via PM (absolute guess!) ?
@Lovejoy now he does mention general help but the problem is that someone replied by asking about the code , here is the problem , Im sure that the person was only trying to help but that is the problem i believe , if he shows the code , then what ? it would be too late for the owner of the template , so closing it and offering help in private was the right choice i believe , but hey im not against you , just sharing my opinion
Thanks
Another fair point, but you are able to see how this might reasonably be seen as someone enquiring about your template - if not wholly - at least in part ?
Why are you inclined to think this way ? How is the idea that the OP pointed out certain issues that he found on other templates relevant to this ? That sounds like a bizarre non-sequiter to me, but to be honest I've been drinking red wine for almost 2 hours so who knows !?
Lol. I guess he should have asked I have an issue with time stamps...I bought a template to verify my method. I can't tell you the method but I need someone to tell me if I'm doing it correctly.
Might as well just used all caps "HELP...no worky!"
Part of why the tread was closed I don't believe have anything to do with future sales loss. His first job is to discourage anything about third party or paid templates....his second condition was it happened to be his own. I think that alone warranted at least putting the brakes on any references to that template regardless of it being his or mine.
Personally I'd like to even know what the orginal posters exact issue was and the solution...on this I agree that is totally what the forums are for and so learning anything about that today will be for ever lost.
Complete Guide to iOS Publishing {} Complete Guide to Mac Publishing
Asking what the code looks like its perhaps the best way of figuring out what the problem is, it has been highly encouraged by mostly everyone here in order to fix a logic problem. This was no different that any other thread, you again seem to forget that the OP has his own code.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
Could be, but that is how many of the people here help others, including yourself.
Because the template maker is also the mod that locked the thread. Having conflict of interest can create a lapse in judgement when making certain decisions.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
@Lovejoy I didnt forget that but if he has his own code then theres no need to mention that he bought the template he can just say i used different methods, does he have to say that he bought " tamagotchi template " ? he would have just said that i got a template and it has the same problem , right ? why do you have to say the name.. that is what i dont understand
I been having drinks myself, cheers to you.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
He clearly states that the issue also appears in the template he bought to verify his own code. Weather he mentions a template used or not does not change the fact that the thread was wrongfully locked without basis and that conflict of interest exist among our Mods.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
@Lovejoy so correct me please , what your saying is that if i had a same problem with my own code and a template I bought , I can mention the templates name and put the code along with my thread , cause I said that my code is the same ?
I don't see how there is anything wrong with posting a code that you made yourself, do you?
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
@Lovejoy No i dont see a problem with that at all , your right , there wouldnt be any problem if i post my code , but there would be a problem if i put a template that i bought and said that i too made the same code as the template but they both have issues and put the code.
cause seriously if this thread wasnt closed i would buy templates and just say that i too made the same code here it is ..... and share it with everyone ... now i can do it countless times with several templates , and you wouldnt have the right to close my thread , is this what you want ? offcourse not ! no template owner would want that ! but i would just say i dont see a problem with that as you said right now , i would say hey im just sharing my code , but hey no need to share my code and say that its similar to this or that template. trust me no one would ever buy a single template in here if this was justified.
I think this thread needs more pictures.
I ran out of wine, I'm on floor cleaner now, it's actually not as bad as my mum said it was.
I hear window cleaner tastes better.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
Went from 4 kinds of Meade to 2 bottle of wine to mikes hard to something with rum and gold.
We don't punish and then seek the truth later, its not the way it works.(at least is not suppose to)
You are taking this off the subject, steering this into whats ifs and so on, how about focusing on the the actual thread in question.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
Lol
I normally save the window cleaner for the early hours of the morning when things start to get a little dicey, just before the toilet cleaner (top tip: mixed with pineapple juice, toilet cleaner actually makes a decent cocktail).
@Lovejoy I gave out an opinion and you argued and i answered , so i think i will stick to my answer and my opinion, thats all.
Thank you
Just so it is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR. There is NO intellectual property with a template, except the art, the sound and the music. Copyright covers the EXPRESSION of an idea... NOT the methodology.
Section 102 of the Copyright Act (title 17 of the U.S. Code) clearly expresses
this principle: “In no case does copyright protection for an original work of
authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation,
concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described,
explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.”
copyright.gov/circs/circ31.pdf
Methodology/process/etc. is covered by patent and unless it's a completely NEW methodology, prior art would prohibit you from registering a patent for it.
While template creators might not want to discuss the workings of their templates to protect sales, there is no copyright or intellectual property concerns, unless they have patented it.
Makes note to self: get butler to order in some rum and gold.
Quite a few assumptions have been made so far but most important to me is what was said here:
I went back and re-read it and you're right, he does say he was working through his own code. I closed it because I saw that he was asking about a paid template but I've re-opened it in light of your comment.
Honestly this is a lot of fuss about not much. I don't mean to make light of the accusations or debate herein but I took about 10 seconds to read the post, close it, and send a private message offering to help the person and suggesting a new thread for the community. I'm human, I make mistakes. Carry on.
New to GameSalad? (FAQs) | Tutorials | Templates | Greenleaf Games | Educator & Certified GameSalad User
Don't try and hide the truth when it's so blatantly apparent to anyone whose been paying attention what's going on here, we know what your real agenda is here, I've seen the plans for the insect uprising (on Youtube, so a fact), you can try and twist this as "a lot of fuss about not much", but to any one who has been tracking your pernicious and cyncial manipulation of the forum it's clear what's going on.
If you are so innocently trying to help another forum member (BY BANNING HIM*) then why don't you show us a picture of your 'human hands' (or should I say 'pincers') ?
(*to discuss this via PM)
@Socks I for one welcome our new overlords!
Well I guess I'm late to the party but I agree with @tatiang initial response. The most current issue at hand is the template is not working and that should be felt with directly the maker and not the forums.
And while yes there is no actual copyright on the function of a template we have never allowed someone to post code written but others unless it was initially free. Be it a template or hacked out of the downloaded app from the App Store.
So again to avoid that issue that has come up in the past it should have been closed and handled via pm as well as a gas supprt ticket just in case there was a true bug behind it all.
Cheers
Aaron
Wayyyyyy late. we are talking about getting drunk.
Perhaps you should try doing what tatiang did and re-read the post. The OP has his own code and simply compared his code with a template to verify if there was a problem with Gamesalad and simply asked a question.
This is the sort of behavior i speak about when i say occurrences like this just get blown away like its nothing.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
I like the humor added in. I have a feeling some might not get it.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una