@CodeWizard said:
Here's your updated State of GameSalad:
Getting me worried there. Who is the bear? Is it GameSalad? Is it the community? Seems he's not at all in control, swayed to and fro by the mystical invisible force behind the rope.
I truly hope you have found a clear direction and stick to it! Too many times GameSalad changes direction, gets half way through with bugs galore and then decides to go another way! Then theres the LUA free, then theres Graphene, then thats on hold, etc etc
Good luck guys! I truly love GameSalad and everything it has produced so far but I think through bad business decisions it hasn't reached its full potential
@beefy_clyro said:
I truly hope you have found a clear direction and stick to it! Too many times GameSalad changes direction, gets half way through with bugs galore and then decides to go another way! Then theres the LUA free, then theres Graphene, then thats on hold, etc etc
Good luck guys! I truly love GameSalad and everything it has produced so far but I think through bad business decisions it hasn't reached its full potential
I just left them feedback on their survey they sent out with a similar tone. I trulythink they have something quality going here, if they could only nail down a clear vision and direction.
@beefy_clyro said:
I truly hope you have found a clear direction and stick to it! Too many times GameSalad changes direction, gets half way through with bugs galore and then decides to go another way! Then theres the LUA free, then theres Graphene, then thats on hold, etc etc
Clear directions won't save you financially. Where they were heading wasn't working and change was needed.
To me they wanted to do it all but pockets not deep enough to carry it through.
Clear business path will more likely lead to better financial gains. That's good business. Trying different paths like an excited kid in a sweet shop is not!
the next "official" "state of gamesalad" update will probably be big announcement. This long, with out a word, means something is coming up.
dgackeyAustin, TXInactive, PRO, Chef EmeritusPosts: 699
@FINNBOGG said:
the next "official" "state of gamesalad" update will probably be big announcement. This long, with out a word, means something is coming up.
Or we're just REALLY busy fixing bugs, updating stuff, and answering customer requests!
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
Personally I am glad to hear there are some changes afoot because for me using GS has been a painful experience and I have not wanted to complain, but I have also have been wondering how GS stays afloat. So, I was just thinking of making some suggestions about getting down to the core business in order to better serve your customers. Now seems an opportune moment to make those suggestions.
So. pardon if anyone has already suggested these- I have not read the entire thread. But here is what I was thinking you could do:
Strip down the number of services you maintain. For example, you could allow users to compile locally which would cut down on bandwidth and storage costs as well as labor costs for maintenance of that section of your website. It would also speed up the dev process, and allow us to work offline. Also, the web forum and the bug tracker could essentially be merged.
Commit to being professional. Stop calling your builds that crash every few minutes "stable" releases and then once the crashes are fixed stop calling GS "beta" software. This would help with good will and word of mouth.
Add the few features that people have been requesting for years that really keep GS from being a professional engine like polygonal collision support, multi-select, alignment / snap to grid tools and the ability to edit in code view. This might keep some people from jumping ship to other engines.
OMG, I never expected this. Well any way does this mean the GS on my lap will freeze. I downloaded it on around March & I'm still in Data Collection of my project. I'm just a beginner aiming to create RPG Games. I have enough money for a single month with which after serious understanding & compiling everything I was to subscribe to PRO but now seeing this I don't know what do. Please don't get me wrong as I don't blame you sir, but can you tell me if the GS in my lap will stop working as I have some data complied. Thank u in advance. Oh & if any can point how to put the value from table in an actors stats like STR, AGI, INT will be extremely useful.
I already know the general response to most of what I have to say, but I just need to get this out of my system...No emails or anything and I come back to my projects to find I need to pay a minimum of $200 a year to develop my games. I'm just a teenager who was enjoying the program and was even teaching it to other kids and now suddenly that's all just gone. I mean I understand when you aren't making enough money, but from free to $200 a year is one giant jump and I don't approve. Especially when there are still a handful of things I'm dealing with that need to be fixed in Gamesalad as I try to complete one final project with my free trial...Oh well I guess. Hope your new business model works... WOW and just after posting I go to work on my final project and save yet it takes an hour to do it and when I open it up nothing is saved...and it keeps happening...I'm officially done with your company
@creatorRedA said:
I try to complete one final project with my free trial...
If you have a nearly-finished project, you don't need to pay around $200. If you finish it within the first month after your trial, you'll pay only $30, if in the second, then $50. Add +$20 for every month it takes you. Then you can stop paying, if you have no more projects on the horizon.
If you wanted to publish this project, and have it professional, perhaps use ads in it, in the old system you would have to pay at least $300 to do so (yearly PRO). This way, you can publish it for MUCH less.
Agent Argyle's post was really amazing! The 3 points you touch on are right on.
I have something else to add about pricing. I have had ToonBoom software for years. They changed their various application names to all under the "Harmony" umbrella. With each software they give you multiple ways to use and/or purchase outright. So you can rent it or buy it. This is the only company I have seen do it right. Everyone else is following in Adobe's footsteps - big mistake in my opinion.
Stencyl was talked about on the forum a while back. I checked it out. They have an "free" version that seems to limit export abilities. Clickteam Fusion does the same but takes a few features out as well. The point is, you have plenty of time to try out the software, not just 2 weeks. I don't know about anyone else but with a full time business to run, 2 weeks is sometimes not enough time to "feel out" the software.
I write this not to bash GS, but as a business owner for 25 years who has had to reinvent himself numerous times, I am concerned. I check things out thoroughly before investing and when I read back in 2012 some feature requests that are still not implemented to this day it makes me fearful to invest money and time to learn GS. If you don't believe me just google it. In the meantime, other competitors in this market have grown considerably. To be fair, when I look at Construct 2, I don't get their business plan either - they don't embrace mobile export processes very much and don't optimize their software for it.
So my point, or rather 2 cents... I do like GS, I would like to use it, and invest in it, but when is the company going to wake up. I can't be the only one to think simple things like zooming and panning are a pain. And I have noticed some weird issues with things disappearing and when I ask on the forum about it, I am told it's a known bug. Seriously, fix it!!
And the free game art. Big red flag for me!!!!!!!!!!
Why? I once did business with an amazing company. They were highly regarded. They sold to investors and the quality dropped big time (no surprise). They started losing customers...a lot of customers. Then they started to doing "free" things for customers to keep them, but at the same time they did not improve their core business product. I was called in by investors to brainstorm their issues (this is over 5 years ago). I told them calmly that they do not need to give me free stuff to keep me as a customer, but rather give me what I am paying them for in the first place, their key product. Now in 2015, they have almost gone bankrupt more than once, and no one credible in my industry uses them anymore. The went from over 600 employees to under 200. They are barely making it and rumor in the industry is they are looking to unload the business ASAP.
So GS, learn from history please. You have plenty of experts here, people like Jamie, Agent A, SpriteAttack, Tintran, Armelline, Gamesalad Guru, etc... (I apologize, I know I'm missing some expert users) who I am sure would be willing to help make GS standout. You need a group of K.O.L.s (key opinion leaders) to help steer your software to higher levels.
Sorry for the long post but I had 2 cups of coffee this morning
@Pesto Nice post! I'll add that we're definitely focusing on the core product. We've improved things quite a bit already -- and there's more to come.
I'd also like to say that our desire to give away free art is based on the observation that many hobbyist users can't create quality art of their own. So, giving away "free" art helps them to play with the tool and build good-looking stuff. I say "free" because it's not really free; it's paid for with subscription revenues.
This is also why we're investing in the GameSalad Academy. Free game building courses, artwork, and assets do nothing but help folks learn the product more rapidly and empower them to make quality games faster. Why not help folks get from here to there more quickly? Seems like a good idea to me.
All valid points on the business model changes. Since I've taken on the CEO role, we've shed the distractions and are 100% focused on the core business. Feel free to ping me if you have any other feedback. I'm happy to help!
Robustness and attention to detail could be the thing that really makes Game Salad worth paying for.> @Agent Argyle said:
Personally I am glad to hear there are some changes afoot because for me using GS has been a painful experience and I have not wanted to complain, but I have also have been wondering how GS stays afloat. So, I was just thinking of making some suggestions about getting down to the core business in order to better serve your customers. Now seems an opportune moment to make those suggestions.
So. pardon if anyone has already suggested these- I have not read the entire thread. But here is what I was thinking you could do:
Strip down the number of services you maintain. For example, you could allow users to compile locally which would cut down on bandwidth and storage costs as well as labor costs for maintenance of that section of your website. It would also speed up the dev process, and allow us to work offline. Also, the web forum and the bug tracker could essentially be merged.
Commit to being professional. Stop calling your builds that crash every few minutes "stable" releases and then once the crashes are fixed stop calling GS "beta" software. This would help with good will and word of mouth.
Add the few features that people have been requesting for years that really keep GS from being a professional engine like polygonal collision support, multi-select, alignment / snap to grid tools and the ability to edit in code view. This might keep some people from jumping ship to other engines.
PhilipCCEncounter Bay, South AustraliaMemberPosts: 1,390
@tshirtbooth said: wow it says this is my 3rd post lol
Oh wow! Is it really you? Your tutorials and videos are what inspired me to join this circus over three years ago. Look forward to your input once more.
I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of this idea - if people are using the app for free it's because they are learning it!
That's how you create and influence market share... Or would you rather nobody use GS?
Not sure why people are high-fiveing and cheering this just makes it harder for new people who want to tryout or even subscribe.
Call me crazy... But how is anyone going to learn or teach this tool..... especially learning institutions with a 15 day limit. That's just dumb... Do you even know your customers?
GameSalad used to be really great with regular updates and features and most importantly free to try and learn.
We have multiple projects in progress using GS and now we cannot open any of them unless we pay. We've instead opted to move these assets to a free to use and learn platform where you pay only when you publish - UNITY + PLAYMAKER.
I have noticed over the last few months that GS features have been less than stellar and adding stuff that should have been there from the start - can't even access the camera on the device.... Cmon guys how hard can it be!!!!!!!!
It seems this poor decision was made in isolation. It smacks of desperation and will be to the detriment of the business and community.
@Toby said:
I have noticed over the last few months that GS features have been less than stellar and adding stuff that should have been there from the start - can't even access the camera on the device.... Cmon guys how hard can it be!!!!!!!!
The updates and improvements made ever since @CodeWizard took over a few months back have been amazing, it has even been acknowledged by the long term users.
Call me crazy... But how is anyone going to learn or teach this tool..... especially learning institutions with a 15 day limit. That's just dumb... Do you even know your customers?
People can learn the software by subscribing to one of the subscription plans, there are very reasonable educational discounts, upto 90% off I believe.
@Toby said:
GameSalad used to be really great with regular updates and features and most importantly free to try and learn.
Although GameSalad was certainly free, I don't ever remember updates being as regular as they have been lately.
owen_dennisJust a guy, you know.Member, PROPosts: 236
@Toby said:
I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of this idea - if people are using the app for free it's because they are learning it!
That's how you create and influence market share... Or would you rather nobody use GS?
Not sure why people are high-fiveing and cheering this just makes it harder for new people who want to tryout or even subscribe.
Call me crazy... But how is anyone going to learn or teach this tool..... especially learning institutions with a 15 day limit. That's just dumb... Do you even know your customers?
GameSalad used to be really great with regular updates and features and most importantly free to try and learn.
We have multiple projects in progress using GS and now we cannot open any of them unless we pay. We've instead opted to move these assets to a free to use and learn platform where you pay only when you publish - UNITY + PLAYMAKER.
I have noticed over the last few months that GS features have been less than stellar and adding stuff that should have been there from the start - can't even access the camera on the device.... Cmon guys how hard can it be!!!!!!!!
It seems this poor decision was made in isolation. It smacks of desperation and will be to the detriment of the business and community.
Wait, you have a bunch of projects in the pipeline, and you've apparently been using the software for many months, but you still consider yourself to be a learner? At what point do you stop being a learner and start being a person who knows a lot of stuff and thus should buy the program? Or am I misunderstanding something?
@Lovejoy said:
The updates and improvements made ever since CodeWizard took over a few months back have been amazing, it has even been acknowledged by the long term users.
If and I say if with much trepidation, GS get their act together and actually add some serious features and capability I might consider re-subscribing. GS was like a brand new plane....I was there from the start and watched it develop - GS never quite made it off the runway sadly. Eg: Collider objects are still limited to a square and a circle, no custom options or shapes!
After 3 days with Playmaker I've already surpassed what I'd created in the GS engine... And it's using the camera and all the features of the device are available to use.
@Toby said:
If and I say if with much trepidation, GS get their act together and actually add some serious features and capability I might consider re-subscribing.
Why even bother if you have as you say
@Toby said: After 3 days with Playmaker I've already surpassed what I'd created in the GS engine...
This just make you seem like a troll trying to spew some balony.
Comments
@CodeWizard That bearly tells us anything!
It's obvious that the GS team has a lot to "bear in mind" right now
Getting me worried there. Who is the bear? Is it GameSalad? Is it the community? Seems he's not at all in control, swayed to and fro by the mystical invisible force behind the rope.
I truly hope you have found a clear direction and stick to it! Too many times GameSalad changes direction, gets half way through with bugs galore and then decides to go another way! Then theres the LUA free, then theres Graphene, then thats on hold, etc etc
Good luck guys! I truly love GameSalad and everything it has produced so far but I think through bad business decisions it hasn't reached its full potential
I just left them feedback on their survey they sent out with a similar tone. I trulythink they have something quality going here, if they could only nail down a clear vision and direction.
Clear directions won't save you financially. Where they were heading wasn't working and change was needed.
To me they wanted to do it all but pockets not deep enough to carry it through.
I think this is his way of saying he has so much on his plate he is as stressed as a bear biking a tight rope.
Or it´s a hint that they´re working on implementing joints support
Mental Donkey Games
Website - Facebook - Twitter
I think my pov is more likely. Since your pov would be a positive note. Haha
Clear business path will more likely lead to better financial gains. That's good business. Trying different paths like an excited kid in a sweet shop is not!
the next "official" "state of gamesalad" update will probably be big announcement. This long, with out a word, means something is coming up.
Or we're just REALLY busy fixing bugs, updating stuff, and answering customer requests!
Dan Magaha · COO · GameSalad, Inc · danm@gamesalad.com
hahaha so what were you doing when you did have time to do a update? hahahaha J/K
Personally I am glad to hear there are some changes afoot because for me using GS has been a painful experience and I have not wanted to complain, but I have also have been wondering how GS stays afloat. So, I was just thinking of making some suggestions about getting down to the core business in order to better serve your customers. Now seems an opportune moment to make those suggestions.
So. pardon if anyone has already suggested these- I have not read the entire thread. But here is what I was thinking you could do:
Strip down the number of services you maintain. For example, you could allow users to compile locally which would cut down on bandwidth and storage costs as well as labor costs for maintenance of that section of your website. It would also speed up the dev process, and allow us to work offline. Also, the web forum and the bug tracker could essentially be merged.
Commit to being professional. Stop calling your builds that crash every few minutes "stable" releases and then once the crashes are fixed stop calling GS "beta" software. This would help with good will and word of mouth.
Add the few features that people have been requesting for years that really keep GS from being a professional engine like polygonal collision support, multi-select, alignment / snap to grid tools and the ability to edit in code view. This might keep some people from jumping ship to other engines.
Anyway, just my 2 cents!
OMG, I never expected this. Well any way does this mean the GS on my lap will freeze. I downloaded it on around March & I'm still in Data Collection of my project. I'm just a beginner aiming to create RPG Games. I have enough money for a single month with which after serious understanding & compiling everything I was to subscribe to PRO but now seeing this I don't know what do. Please don't get me wrong as I don't blame you sir, but can you tell me if the GS in my lap will stop working as I have some data complied. Thank u in advance. Oh & if any can point how to put the value from table in an actors stats like STR, AGI, INT will be extremely useful.
I already know the general response to most of what I have to say, but I just need to get this out of my system...No emails or anything and I come back to my projects to find I need to pay a minimum of $200 a year to develop my games. I'm just a teenager who was enjoying the program and was even teaching it to other kids and now suddenly that's all just gone. I mean I understand when you aren't making enough money, but from free to $200 a year is one giant jump and I don't approve. Especially when there are still a handful of things I'm dealing with that need to be fixed in Gamesalad as I try to complete one final project with my free trial...Oh well I guess. Hope your new business model works...
WOW and just after posting I go to work on my final project and save yet it takes an hour to do it and when I open it up nothing is saved...and it keeps happening...I'm officially done with your company
If you have a nearly-finished project, you don't need to pay around $200. If you finish it within the first month after your trial, you'll pay only $30, if in the second, then $50. Add +$20 for every month it takes you. Then you can stop paying, if you have no more projects on the horizon.
If you wanted to publish this project, and have it professional, perhaps use ads in it, in the old system you would have to pay at least $300 to do so (yearly PRO). This way, you can publish it for MUCH less.
Agent Argyle's post was really amazing! The 3 points you touch on are right on.
I have something else to add about pricing. I have had ToonBoom software for years. They changed their various application names to all under the "Harmony" umbrella. With each software they give you multiple ways to use and/or purchase outright. So you can rent it or buy it. This is the only company I have seen do it right. Everyone else is following in Adobe's footsteps - big mistake in my opinion.
Stencyl was talked about on the forum a while back. I checked it out. They have an "free" version that seems to limit export abilities. Clickteam Fusion does the same but takes a few features out as well. The point is, you have plenty of time to try out the software, not just 2 weeks. I don't know about anyone else but with a full time business to run, 2 weeks is sometimes not enough time to "feel out" the software.
I write this not to bash GS, but as a business owner for 25 years who has had to reinvent himself numerous times, I am concerned. I check things out thoroughly before investing and when I read back in 2012 some feature requests that are still not implemented to this day it makes me fearful to invest money and time to learn GS. If you don't believe me just google it. In the meantime, other competitors in this market have grown considerably. To be fair, when I look at Construct 2, I don't get their business plan either - they don't embrace mobile export processes very much and don't optimize their software for it.
So my point, or rather 2 cents... I do like GS, I would like to use it, and invest in it, but when is the company going to wake up. I can't be the only one to think simple things like zooming and panning are a pain. And I have noticed some weird issues with things disappearing and when I ask on the forum about it, I am told it's a known bug. Seriously, fix it!!
And the free game art. Big red flag for me!!!!!!!!!!
Why? I once did business with an amazing company. They were highly regarded. They sold to investors and the quality dropped big time (no surprise). They started losing customers...a lot of customers. Then they started to doing "free" things for customers to keep them, but at the same time they did not improve their core business product. I was called in by investors to brainstorm their issues (this is over 5 years ago). I told them calmly that they do not need to give me free stuff to keep me as a customer, but rather give me what I am paying them for in the first place, their key product. Now in 2015, they have almost gone bankrupt more than once, and no one credible in my industry uses them anymore. The went from over 600 employees to under 200. They are barely making it and rumor in the industry is they are looking to unload the business ASAP.
So GS, learn from history please. You have plenty of experts here, people like Jamie, Agent A, SpriteAttack, Tintran, Armelline, Gamesalad Guru, etc... (I apologize, I know I'm missing some expert users) who I am sure would be willing to help make GS standout. You need a group of K.O.L.s (key opinion leaders) to help steer your software to higher levels.
Sorry for the long post but I had 2 cups of coffee this morning
My best to everyone and to GS.
@Pesto Nice post! I'll add that we're definitely focusing on the core product. We've improved things quite a bit already -- and there's more to come.
I'd also like to say that our desire to give away free art is based on the observation that many hobbyist users can't create quality art of their own. So, giving away "free" art helps them to play with the tool and build good-looking stuff. I say "free" because it's not really free; it's paid for with subscription revenues.
This is also why we're investing in the GameSalad Academy. Free game building courses, artwork, and assets do nothing but help folks learn the product more rapidly and empower them to make quality games faster. Why not help folks get from here to there more quickly? Seems like a good idea to me.
All valid points on the business model changes. Since I've taken on the CEO role, we've shed the distractions and are 100% focused on the core business. Feel free to ping me if you have any other feedback. I'm happy to help!
Totally agree.
Robustness and attention to detail could be the thing that really makes Game Salad worth paying for.> @Agent Argyle said:
Excellent. Well put. Agreed.
Oh wow!
Is it really you? Your tutorials and videos are what inspired me to join this circus over three years ago. Look forward to your input once more.
Will the real TShirtBooth please stand up?
Is this the ancient master, hailing from Canada, talking abooot Game Salad, and inspiring young and old alike?
Or the new teenage TShirtBooth, relation to the original master unknown...?
@adent42 Any reason comments were disabled in the Trademark guidelines post?
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
I'm sorry, I'm not a fan of this idea - if people are using the app for free it's because they are learning it!
That's how you create and influence market share... Or would you rather nobody use GS?
Not sure why people are high-fiveing and cheering this just makes it harder for new people who want to tryout or even subscribe.
Call me crazy... But how is anyone going to learn or teach this tool..... especially learning institutions with a 15 day limit. That's just dumb... Do you even know your customers?
GameSalad used to be really great with regular updates and features and most importantly free to try and learn.
We have multiple projects in progress using GS and now we cannot open any of them unless we pay. We've instead opted to move these assets to a free to use and learn platform where you pay only when you publish - UNITY + PLAYMAKER.
I have noticed over the last few months that GS features have been less than stellar and adding stuff that should have been there from the start - can't even access the camera on the device.... Cmon guys how hard can it be!!!!!!!!
It seems this poor decision was made in isolation. It smacks of desperation and will be to the detriment of the business and community.
The updates and improvements made ever since @CodeWizard took over a few months back have been amazing, it has even been acknowledged by the long term users.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
...> @Toby said:
People can learn the software by subscribing to one of the subscription plans, there are very reasonable educational discounts, upto 90% off I believe.
Although GameSalad was certainly free, I don't ever remember updates being as regular as they have been lately.
Wait, you have a bunch of projects in the pipeline, and you've apparently been using the software for many months, but you still consider yourself to be a learner? At what point do you stop being a learner and start being a person who knows a lot of stuff and thus should buy the program? Or am I misunderstanding something?
Vote for Nearest Neighbor Scaling option in gamesalad! Let's make our games look truly stunning!
If and I say if with much trepidation, GS get their act together and actually add some serious features and capability I might consider re-subscribing. GS was like a brand new plane....I was there from the start and watched it develop - GS never quite made it off the runway sadly. Eg: Collider objects are still limited to a square and a circle, no custom options or shapes!
After 3 days with Playmaker I've already surpassed what I'd created in the GS engine... And it's using the camera and all the features of the device are available to use.
How's that for a comparison? AND FREE!!!!
Why even bother if you have as you say
This just make you seem like a troll trying to spew some balony.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una