Like you said.. You've recently picked up GS, but when I came around a couple months ago (when he was having problems with his first game) he optimized the hell out of that game and it would not run on a 2nd Gen touch... He posted ALOT on optimization back when he was having problems with his game, and I think alot of the other members would agree with me on this... Also back then he posted tips on how to optimize the timers, constrains, rules, etc. Also he rebuilt the game multiple times, using the simplest and most elegant rules... So yes I'd say he is the King of Optimization....
Everything else you said though is pretty dead on...
I'm sorry if part of my comment for synthesis make you or other upset. I just can't help it when I saw something interesting, I just lov nice graphic .... Interesting stuff alway inspire & make me happy. I believe giving nice compliment to other is part of encouragement & motivation, I don't think it's just non productive ass kissers. I lov my work to be recognize so do other. Guess you hav a hard day today, hav a good rest.
@Polygame... As to whether or not you are better than me or I am better than you...it doesn't matter. I never said my games are great or whatever...I have only stated in various posts that the games in general should be as good as you can possibly make them and to be successful in iPhone app development...you have to compete at the top of the tier or else you will end up a starving artist. I have also said that you game MUST meet market demands to sell to the masses and a fully developed title geared towards a larger audience has a higher probability of success than a under-developed title geared to a niche audience. Now if you are using GS to just have fun...then anything goes...but if you are using it to make a living...then some basic demands and expectations for the platform ought to be expected. And if they aren't there...then that can present a problem.
My frustration is that I am trying to compete at the top tier...at least at what I perceive to be the top tier after studying the app store for 16 months now. GS was an exciting discovery when I signed up last Feb. I really thought it was going to be something great and I have really, really wanted it to be. But it seems that every time I try to do something to the level and caliber that I personally feel is necessary to compete in this incredibly competitive app market...GS keeps getting itself in the way and letting me down.
My first game was 2 months under development and going strong...but near the finish line it just wouldn't work. With only 8 or so dynamic actors...there wasn't any reason why that I could find. I looked for EVERY possible opportunity to reduce rule load and optimize the logic but it was no use. And any more snipping or hacking on it wouldn't have left much to enjoy.
Toxic Roach is my 3rd attempt at building a "solid" game. What I mean by that is that its a game that I feel has a "potential" to earning $100K or more. The second attempt was about 30% complete before I felt it just wasn't the right concept for right now...and I needed a stronger title and concept. I feel that if a game doesn't have that potential...then it is probably a $10 a day earner (or less probably) and I can't live on that personally. If I am going to live, eat, and breath a game for 3 months of development...I want it to be a solid title that has earning power. I still think Toxic Roach has the potential of being a strong concept. If I told you I was building a game that was you throw birds at wooden blocks because some pigs pissed you off...you would think that was crazy...yet it sits in the #1 slot for months. If I told you I was building a game that has a green wart that jumps up and down and you try to jump from one wooden step to another...you probably would think that concept was also rediculous...yet its one of the most successful concepts ever...go figure. I don't believe you need spaceship or tanks to have a successful title...just a well executed and simple concept.
Toxic Roach has been in development for about 6 weeks now. The menus and front end took about 3-4 weeks to build. The game level that you played is only about 1.5 weeks into development. I am basically building the mechanics right now. The gameplay will come later after the mechanics are polished up. The actors have lots of customizable settings to enhance the way they function level by level and to control their probabilities of how they behave uniquely. Its fairly efficient but very flexible.
My whole beef with GS is that the priorities that Gendai places on it just don't seem in line with what it takes to build anything more than a simple tapper. The roach app is a simple tapper in its core...which we elected to do to be more in line with our perceived GS capabilities. But it is frustrating to me that when you get 30-40% of the way into the buildout and when you start to implement things into the game that are unique and give it its third and 4th dimension (the professional and polished look)...the game engine starts to crap out.
I use an iPhone 2G as my benchmark for operability. GS seems to fail miserably at providing a game engine that can allow a complex game to function within the constraints of that device. There are lots of platforms that can build games...EXTREMELY COMPLEX games...within that benchmark...but GS can't it seems. Corona uses the 1G phone as its benchmark and its game engine uses 300KB of RAM compared to GS's 25MB of ram for a white box actor. This is the primary issue I am focused on with my frustration with the GE. I think Gendai must use a power Mac as their benchmark device (sarcastic point).
The new thread today is regarding the memory loads. If you can explain to me why it is that when you reset a scene...20% of the RAM load is compounded and retained instead of dumped. That seems to be nothing I am doing wrong. Its a game engine issue and one that appears completely connected to the quality of the game engine. Your games are probably doing it too. If you haven't noticed...it may be because you are testing on a newer device or your game hasn't been tested enough to find its breaking point. Because if you are using any physics...and you restart the game enough times...it will eventually crash...and it shouldn't.
The game you played of mine here is only 1 level...there is no more currently. It is merely a demonstration of the mechanics. It wasn't intended to be challenging or thrilling...it was a v0.3 beta demo of the state of the mechanics of operation after 2 weeks of development and an glimpse at some of the visual FX I built this week. I probably have at least 6-8 weeks of development left and then some final polishing.
I appreciate your feedback. I take all feedback seriously and will examine it and use it however I can to make the game better. Thank you for that.
You seem like a nice guy Polygame and I wish you only success with your new game. I also have nothing against Gendai. They seem like a bunch of nice folks too. But I am not going to blow smoke up their ass either if it prevents me from achieving success. And if they cannot deliver a product that has the balls to build the games I want to build...then yes...I guess I will need to move on and look elsewhere for that. I hope I don't as I like the GS concept...but right now...its execution still seems to reside on very shaky ground...and its almost v9.0.
At Choosenone. Thanks for your words as well. I wouldn't personally call myself the King of Optimization. But in the 12+ years I've been working in software...I have learned that optimization is critical and if you can't optimize...you can't grow.
Sorry I missed the "rude" posts...they sounded juicy!!!
BTW: Toxic Roach performs beautifully on a 3GS or a 4G...but crashes out on the benchmarks of the iPod 2G. We've basically scraped the 3G as a benchmark since OS4 killed them off.
I didn't realise the game was that early on... I'm sure you've added a heap to it.
I know what you mean about optimising for the iPod Touch... I actually couldn't get my game running on a 2G and went out and bought a newer one so I could test it properly myself... I ended up having to make the game 3GS and upwards only... although now I have learnt a little more and think I could possibly get it running on older hardware...
As for "studying the app store'. I think that's a bad idea. there's no point trying to work out "why this worked, why this didn't". there is no rhyme or reason to it except for one thing... the games need to be good. You can't put everything in a box and say "it needs 100 levels" or "people only play this". And, quite frankly, it needs to be original... Doodle Jump and Angry Birds are extremely original... unfortunately there are already tens of thousands of touch to destroy games (and shooters, admittedly but I chose that genre because I like em). Also, by studying "what worked" won't helped... it has ALREADY worked. Every new hit in the App Store is completely different from the last and just breaks the rules again. No point trying to copy what others have done in the quest for the coin... there are 100 thousand devs out there doing that.
At the end of the day, Gendai know GS's limitations and they have stated repeatedly that they are working on stability and speed. But then that upsets the iAds bunch... seems they can't win. I'm definitely with you on this one, though
And as for who's better than who, I NEVER made a claim to be better than anyone... I'm a total noob and first to admit it. It was chosenone who went on about how you are better than the both of us ;-)
I understand you want to make games for a living and have no doubt you'll be very successful at it. But step back and take a look at your games and think "would I play that if I didn't create it?" And test it on people who don't know you in the slightest. that's what I did... it may be painful when you get that "constructive criticism" but it aided me no end in getting a game out there that I'm very proud of (no doubt I'll laugh at my own feeble attempts in ten games time!)
I really do respect your goals of optimisation for earlier hardware too but maybe you should just bite the bullet and make it 3GS only? Older devices are fading out fast... you might make less sales but only for the time-being... You might as well release something as you've put loads of effort into it!!!!
And sorry if I sounded harsh before... the sleep thing was true. I've been working graveyard two days a week... it's like having jetlag repeatedly every bloody day!!!!
And I seriously hope you DO hit 100k! That would be fantastic. I love those kind of stories too, great for inspiration (although I do make games for fun, I'd LOVE to make a living off them one day - work sucks).
But I have a real problem with saying..."I'm going to ignore 15,000,000 customers because I can't build an app for them to enjoy because GS can't release RAM to allow me to do so."
We may disagree with what comprises a "good game". That is the nature of the business. My partner and I disagree constantly on that. He is always saying..."Game X is a total taptard game and its made millions!". My response is..."There are 1000's of other taptards that have made $5...and I don't have time to create a 1000 taptards to have 1 hit."
I do test with kids. I have shown them lots of other game from GS members that I thought were a fairly good game. A 4 YO thought Toxic Roach was amazing. And a 10 year old just wanted me to turn it off and let her play PvsZ.
You never really know for sure what game is going to work. But in studying the app store...most successful games are priced at $1 and play like a $4 game. So our approach has been that...make a $4 game that sells for $1...looks great...is fun for all ages and has a concept that is simple.
We desperately want to get TR to market...and if we have to...we will go for 3GS+ only. But I personally think it sucks a MASSIVE one for Gendai to shrink an already tough market by 30% because they can't can't get their GE optimized and running efficiently and giving us more space to operate in. As a result...I continue to press them to do so since there isn't really another good option (for me personally) right now. But I guarantee you that will change soon. Other options are coming and if GS continues to ignore fundamental issues like their GE performance...then its going to make it very easy for me to move on....even if it requires some basic scripting.
I hope GS improves rapidly...but I've been waiting for 4 months now for them to do something about their GE and nothing has happened...and it appears that they have nothing really planned to happen on it. Too busy I guess making pro features to work that nobody can use
And by the way...Angry Birds IS NOT original. Its the same thing as Eastbound's Kill the King and a bunch of other physics tumblers...its just VERY POLISHED and well executed.
Doodle jump is unique because it was an early adopter of the accelerometer controls which catapulted it to a top slot 16-18 months ago and its been their ever since because its $1 and it has a huge following and become the nostalgic "PacMan" of the iPhone. It was also one of the 1st Doodlers...and IMHO...it was its unique graphics that helped set it apart...not only its gameplay.
The iPhone 2G is just the weensiest bit faster than the iPhone 3G. They are pretty much identical. They are both pitiful next to an iPod 3rd Gen. and an iPhone 3GS.
I only mention that because you say that iPod 2G is your benchmark while scrapping the iPhone 3G...
Ideally of course your game will work on as many devices as possible.
Hopefully Gendai can figure out what is causing the memory leaks and plug them.
In my current game, I have it broken up in such a way that I am not allowing the memory usage to reach 40MB in any one Scene. I watch it like a hawk. Changing Scenes always knocks it back down. I am not using any physics however. All my RAM is used up by images and sounds. I am using a ton of Interpolates too. Changing Scenes successfully flushes it all out.
1. Nice slick graphics 2. Is there anyway you could slow the bug animation down depending on the speed of travel. I noticed a few times there was a few bugs with fast moving legs, but they were moving very very slow across the screen which looked a bit out of place.
@FMG... Then I don't understand why when I change out the physics scene...My game engine RAM does not reduce to where it started prior to the scene.
EVERY time we restart the scene...it starts up with a 20% higher RAM demand than previously. It makes absolutely no sense. I can only deduce it is a GE issue...which is why I started the other thread and asked for ANYONE to prove me wrong and tell me either what I am doing wrong or why the GE would react that way.
I am fine with optimizing things down if need be...but I can't fix RAM creep...not matter what I do...hence the frustration.
It was the same issue with Bumper Derby X 5 months ago...and it appears the issue has been swept under the rug in Texas.
I assume that since you are reporting the RAM usage, that you are noticing the leaks in the GS Viewer, right?
And you mentioned that you are using the Resolution Independence feature?
Well, when you test the game with the GS Viewer, you are still using those huge images on the iPod 2G. Those PNGs haven't been crushed yet and replaced by the publishing process.
I can only assume that that is using 4x the image RAM? I would think that an iPhone 2G would get sad pretty fast.
It doesn't account for your ever increasing RAM though...
@ JC Ford... The leg animations are constrained to the speed. They are separated into 4 speed groups and each group has a different animation frame rate. If they were "ice skating"...that means a rule didn't fire correctly.
Gas is a good way to test this. The gas will slow a roach controller to 10% of its default speed and the speed of the roach animation is constrained in a separate tap actor to that dynamic speed generated by the controller. I saw it working correctly prior to when I published...perhaps something broke in the interim...I will look into that...but right now I am fighting RAM crashing issues....AGAIN.
@ FMG... The image load is MUCH lower on the iPod vs the iPhone4G we used to test it.
The default RAM loads are such: 4G>>> 30 FPS 43 MB image load 0 MB sound load 34 MB game engine load 21 MB other (whatever that is...we haven't figured that out yet) 99 MB TOTAL
iPod2G>> 17 FPS (slightly choppy but acceptable) 11 MB image load (same build as the 4G) 0 MB sound 36 MB game engine 4 MB other 51 MB TOTAL
Then with each restart of the physics scene...the game engine's load is the only one that creeps and it inflates about 6-7 MB with each restart...no matter what.
Once we reach about 65MB...it crashes out.
That's is all I have to go on...which is why I posted this evening in the other thread...hoping to God somebody explains to me why that number creeps and doesn't stay steady.
BTW: Those RAM loads are after about 3 minutes of play...after they level out and stop climbing.
Also... Viewer or not...the app crashes on a 2nd AdHoc iPod 2G test (separate device...different CPU) without using the viewer after a scene restart but not prior (usually).
@synthesis I just had another look and let the game run, its the bugs with the green eyes which always move very fast, but as they get near the right hand side of the screen some seems to slow down but the legs still animate very fast!
Hmmm. I'll think about it and run some tests. It would be nice to isolate what is causing the memory creep.
I am using pretty much everything in GS that you are except for the Animate behavior, and the Physics engine.
Those are my two main suspects right now. The physics engine is more complicated of course...
You also have that fairly complex Main Menu.
As a test, what if you create a new blank Scene with just a single 'return' button. If you jump from the Game Scene to the blank Scene, and back again, does that flush it out?
Another thing could be some Timer somewhere that's not releasing?
Hey Joe, I just bought a 3G iPod Touch, runs my game but there is still a little slowdown. QS said he didn't notice any slowdown on his 3GS... is the 3GS faster than the 3G iPod? I thought they were the same... I have a 2G iPod too... slow as a dog...
@POLYGAMe: I noticed some slowdown with your game when the cross-shaped ships came out and fired bullets. Nothing too major though. This was on my 3GS.
POLYGAMe said: I stick to what I said though. Games need to be fun. That's the FUNdamental keystone of the videogame... playability... without it, there is no game... just some pretty pixels. Anyone remember Shadow of the Beast? Sadly, it's a lesson no one seems to be learning...
I remember shadow of the beast, i loved that game on amiga 500, and the 2nd one, the third was crap... tho of course i think i was like ...7 when playing it.. so back then it was pretty impressive...
And by the way...Angry Birds IS NOT original. Its the same thing as Eastbound's Kill the King and a bunch of other physics tumblers...its just VERY POLISHED and well executed.
Pretty sure Angry Birds was there first I may be wrong...
But yeah, your game definitely has an original look. And those menus are just BEAUTIFUL! Keep us posted on progress. Really would be a shame not to release something...even if only 3GS. That's what I did.. I know it might end up getting a couple of lower ratings and complaints but it's better than not releasing anything at all...
@FMG, thanks mate! Pretty much same here. And with the bosses - though it actually kind of adds to the 8 bit feel! And makes it a bit easier to dodge bullets. LOL. Hope you've played the latest build? I put in those fixes you suggested!
Taidaken said: I remember shadow of the beast, i loved that game on amiga 500, and the 2nd one, the third was crap... tho of course i think i was like ...7 when playing it.. so back then it was pretty impressive...
Oh, yeah, it was VERY impressive. But once the visual had warn off it became VERY boring. The collision detection was terrible, the gameplay extremely repetitive... it was, fundamentally a !@#$% game... a lot of magazines gave it rave reviews because it looked so beautiful... a lot slagged it for being actually quite awful to play. But... I have to admit,., I DID keep playing it... only to see what the next stage looked like as it was so beautifully drawn... I didn't enjoy the actual playing of the game, but it still kept me occupied... hmmm... something to think about... LOL.
playability of Game is very important but that game had something about it that made me want to carry on playing, even if it was as glitchy as hell, but back then i was too young to even know what a glitch was so i didnt care, i just thought it was apart of the game. tho this whole graphics vs playability thing, it really just depends on your preference. some prefer gameplay some prefer graphics. as for myself, i can go ether way, so its all good.
I think Synth is right... killing actors doesn't reduce memory, which it SHOULD! And I'm guessing he's been pretty tight on the use of actors... good points, though.
@Synth... you mentioned a racing game earlier? OOOOOOH! You have anything playable? I do fancy me a racer
POLYGAMe said: I think Synth is right... killing actors doesn't reduce memory, which it SHOULD! And I'm guessing he's been pretty tight on the use of actors... good points, though.
@Synth... you mentioned a racing game earlier? OOOOOOH! You have anything playable? I do fancy me a racer
weren't you meant to be going to sleep 5 hours ago? :P
the fact that destroying actors doesn't release the RAM for me is one of the most annoying things.. just seems so wasteful and ridiculous.. I'm really hoping with this new investment money that some real progress will be made in the near future.. I have hope and will be sticking through the tough times to hopefully take real rewards in the future..
Haha, I said I needed sleep... I STILL DO. Worked graveyard. Wasn't going to bed though, it was daylight, which is the perfect time to close all the curtains and sit in front of a computer in a dark room :P
See how many levels you can get in without it crashing. Hopefully about 10.
Release a lite version with those 10 levels in.
See what the reception's like.
If nothing improves on GS's side, then make the game using something else. IF it's got good enough feedback to warrant it.
I think you're taking a big risk wanting to make 100+ levels with the game you have now. Best to gauge the response before embarking on such a time consuming venture.
Comments
Everything else you said though is pretty dead on...
Holy Sh*t its 1:20 i'm going to bed, night.
-Will
I don't doubt the man is VERY talented... seriously, those are some GORGEOUS graphics... I'm just a bit old-skool and prefer a bit of substance.
As for the optimisation, I probably used some of those tips and I always welcome more!!!
Nighty night!
I'm sorry if part of my comment for synthesis make you or other upset. I just can't help it when I saw something interesting, I just lov nice graphic .... Interesting stuff alway inspire & make me happy. I believe giving nice compliment to other is part of encouragement & motivation, I don't think it's just non productive ass kissers. I lov my work to be recognize so do other. Guess you hav a hard day today, hav a good rest.
Finally some constructive criticism.
@Polygame...
As to whether or not you are better than me or I am better than you...it doesn't matter. I never said my games are great or whatever...I have only stated in various posts that the games in general should be as good as you can possibly make them and to be successful in iPhone app development...you have to compete at the top of the tier or else you will end up a starving artist. I have also said that you game MUST meet market demands to sell to the masses and a fully developed title geared towards a larger audience has a higher probability of success than a under-developed title geared to a niche audience. Now if you are using GS to just have fun...then anything goes...but if you are using it to make a living...then some basic demands and expectations for the platform ought to be expected. And if they aren't there...then that can present a problem.
My frustration is that I am trying to compete at the top tier...at least at what I perceive to be the top tier after studying the app store for 16 months now. GS was an exciting discovery when I signed up last Feb. I really thought it was going to be something great and I have really, really wanted it to be. But it seems that every time I try to do something to the level and caliber that I personally feel is necessary to compete in this incredibly competitive app market...GS keeps getting itself in the way and letting me down.
My first game was 2 months under development and going strong...but near the finish line it just wouldn't work. With only 8 or so dynamic actors...there wasn't any reason why that I could find. I looked for EVERY possible opportunity to reduce rule load and optimize the logic but it was no use. And any more snipping or hacking on it wouldn't have left much to enjoy.
Toxic Roach is my 3rd attempt at building a "solid" game. What I mean by that is that its a game that I feel has a "potential" to earning $100K or more. The second attempt was about 30% complete before I felt it just wasn't the right concept for right now...and I needed a stronger title and concept. I feel that if a game doesn't have that potential...then it is probably a $10 a day earner (or less probably) and I can't live on that personally. If I am going to live, eat, and breath a game for 3 months of development...I want it to be a solid title that has earning power. I still think Toxic Roach has the potential of being a strong concept. If I told you I was building a game that was you throw birds at wooden blocks because some pigs pissed you off...you would think that was crazy...yet it sits in the #1 slot for months. If I told you I was building a game that has a green wart that jumps up and down and you try to jump from one wooden step to another...you probably would think that concept was also rediculous...yet its one of the most successful concepts ever...go figure. I don't believe you need spaceship or tanks to have a successful title...just a well executed and simple concept.
Toxic Roach has been in development for about 6 weeks now. The menus and front end took about 3-4 weeks to build. The game level that you played is only about 1.5 weeks into development. I am basically building the mechanics right now. The gameplay will come later after the mechanics are polished up. The actors have lots of customizable settings to enhance the way they function level by level and to control their probabilities of how they behave uniquely. Its fairly efficient but very flexible.
My whole beef with GS is that the priorities that Gendai places on it just don't seem in line with what it takes to build anything more than a simple tapper. The roach app is a simple tapper in its core...which we elected to do to be more in line with our perceived GS capabilities. But it is frustrating to me that when you get 30-40% of the way into the buildout and when you start to implement things into the game that are unique and give it its third and 4th dimension (the professional and polished look)...the game engine starts to crap out.
I use an iPhone 2G as my benchmark for operability. GS seems to fail miserably at providing a game engine that can allow a complex game to function within the constraints of that device. There are lots of platforms that can build games...EXTREMELY COMPLEX games...within that benchmark...but GS can't it seems. Corona uses the 1G phone as its benchmark and its game engine uses 300KB of RAM compared to GS's 25MB of ram for a white box actor. This is the primary issue I am focused on with my frustration with the GE. I think Gendai must use a power Mac as their benchmark device (sarcastic point).
The new thread today is regarding the memory loads. If you can explain to me why it is that when you reset a scene...20% of the RAM load is compounded and retained instead of dumped. That seems to be nothing I am doing wrong. Its a game engine issue and one that appears completely connected to the quality of the game engine. Your games are probably doing it too. If you haven't noticed...it may be because you are testing on a newer device or your game hasn't been tested enough to find its breaking point. Because if you are using any physics...and you restart the game enough times...it will eventually crash...and it shouldn't.
The game you played of mine here is only 1 level...there is no more currently. It is merely a demonstration of the mechanics. It wasn't intended to be challenging or thrilling...it was a v0.3 beta demo of the state of the mechanics of operation after 2 weeks of development and an glimpse at some of the visual FX I built this week. I probably have at least 6-8 weeks of development left and then some final polishing.
I appreciate your feedback. I take all feedback seriously and will examine it and use it however I can to make the game better. Thank you for that.
You seem like a nice guy Polygame and I wish you only success with your new game. I also have nothing against Gendai. They seem like a bunch of nice folks too. But I am not going to blow smoke up their ass either if it prevents me from achieving success. And if they cannot deliver a product that has the balls to build the games I want to build...then yes...I guess I will need to move on and look elsewhere for that. I hope I don't as I like the GS concept...but right now...its execution still seems to reside on very shaky ground...and its almost v9.0.
At Choosenone.
Thanks for your words as well. I wouldn't personally call myself the King of Optimization. But in the 12+ years I've been working in software...I have learned that optimization is critical and if you can't optimize...you can't grow.
Sorry I missed the "rude" posts...they sounded juicy!!!
BTW: Toxic Roach performs beautifully on a 3GS or a 4G...but crashes out on the benchmarks of the iPod 2G. We've basically scraped the 3G as a benchmark since OS4 killed them off.
I didn't realise the game was that early on... I'm sure you've added a heap to it.
I know what you mean about optimising for the iPod Touch... I actually couldn't get my game running on a 2G and went out and bought a newer one so I could test it properly myself... I ended up having to make the game 3GS and upwards only... although now I have learnt a little more and think I could possibly get it running on older hardware...
As for "studying the app store'. I think that's a bad idea. there's no point trying to work out "why this worked, why this didn't". there is no rhyme or reason to it except for one thing... the games need to be good. You can't put everything in a box and say "it needs 100 levels" or "people only play this". And, quite frankly, it needs to be original... Doodle Jump and Angry Birds are extremely original... unfortunately there are already tens of thousands of touch to destroy games (and shooters, admittedly but I chose that genre because I like em). Also, by studying "what worked" won't helped... it has ALREADY worked. Every new hit in the App Store is completely different from the last and just breaks the rules again. No point trying to copy what others have done in the quest for the coin... there are 100 thousand devs out there doing that.
At the end of the day, Gendai know GS's limitations and they have stated repeatedly that they are working on stability and speed. But then that upsets the iAds bunch... seems they can't win. I'm definitely with you on this one, though
And as for who's better than who, I NEVER made a claim to be better than anyone... I'm a total noob and first to admit it. It was chosenone who went on about how you are better than the both of us ;-)
I understand you want to make games for a living and have no doubt you'll be very successful at it. But step back and take a look at your games and think "would I play that if I didn't create it?" And test it on people who don't know you in the slightest. that's what I did... it may be painful when you get that "constructive criticism" but it aided me no end in getting a game out there that I'm very proud of (no doubt I'll laugh at my own feeble attempts in ten games time!)
I really do respect your goals of optimisation for earlier hardware too but maybe you should just bite the bullet and make it 3GS only? Older devices are fading out fast... you might make less sales but only for the time-being... You might as well release something as you've put loads of effort into it!!!!
And I seriously hope you DO hit 100k! That would be fantastic. I love those kind of stories too, great for inspiration (although I do make games for fun, I'd LOVE to make a living off them one day - work sucks).
But I have a real problem with saying..."I'm going to ignore 15,000,000 customers because I can't build an app for them to enjoy because GS can't release RAM to allow me to do so."
We may disagree with what comprises a "good game". That is the nature of the business. My partner and I disagree constantly on that. He is always saying..."Game X is a total taptard game and its made millions!". My response is..."There are 1000's of other taptards that have made $5...and I don't have time to create a 1000 taptards to have 1 hit."
I do test with kids. I have shown them lots of other game from GS members that I thought were a fairly good game. A 4 YO thought Toxic Roach was amazing. And a 10 year old just wanted me to turn it off and let her play PvsZ.
You never really know for sure what game is going to work. But in studying the app store...most successful games are priced at $1 and play like a $4 game. So our approach has been that...make a $4 game that sells for $1...looks great...is fun for all ages and has a concept that is simple.
We desperately want to get TR to market...and if we have to...we will go for 3GS+ only. But I personally think it sucks a MASSIVE one for Gendai to shrink an already tough market by 30% because they can't can't get their GE optimized and running efficiently and giving us more space to operate in. As a result...I continue to press them to do so since there isn't really another good option (for me personally) right now. But I guarantee you that will change soon. Other options are coming and if GS continues to ignore fundamental issues like their GE performance...then its going to make it very easy for me to move on....even if it requires some basic scripting.
I hope GS improves rapidly...but I've been waiting for 4 months now for them to do something about their GE and nothing has happened...and it appears that they have nothing really planned to happen on it. Too busy I guess making pro features to work that nobody can use
And by the way...Angry Birds IS NOT original. Its the same thing as Eastbound's Kill the King and a bunch of other physics tumblers...its just VERY POLISHED and well executed.
Doodle jump is unique because it was an early adopter of the accelerometer controls which catapulted it to a top slot 16-18 months ago and its been their ever since because its $1 and it has a huge following and become the nostalgic "PacMan" of the iPhone. It was also one of the 1st Doodlers...and IMHO...it was its unique graphics that helped set it apart...not only its gameplay.
I only mention that because you say that iPod 2G is your benchmark while scrapping the iPhone 3G...
Ideally of course your game will work on as many devices as possible.
Hopefully Gendai can figure out what is causing the memory leaks and plug them.
In my current game, I have it broken up in such a way that I am not allowing the memory usage to reach 40MB in any one Scene. I watch it like a hawk. Changing Scenes always knocks it back down. I am not using any physics however. All my RAM is used up by images and sounds. I am using a ton of Interpolates too. Changing Scenes successfully flushes it all out.
1. Nice slick graphics
2. Is there anyway you could slow the bug animation down depending on the speed of travel. I noticed a few times there was a few bugs with fast moving legs, but they were moving very very slow across the screen which looked a bit out of place.
Then I don't understand why when I change out the physics scene...My game engine RAM does not reduce to where it started prior to the scene.
EVERY time we restart the scene...it starts up with a 20% higher RAM demand than previously. It makes absolutely no sense. I can only deduce it is a GE issue...which is why I started the other thread and asked for ANYONE to prove me wrong and tell me either what I am doing wrong or why the GE would react that way.
I am fine with optimizing things down if need be...but I can't fix RAM creep...not matter what I do...hence the frustration.
It was the same issue with Bumper Derby X 5 months ago...and it appears the issue has been swept under the rug in Texas.
I assume that since you are reporting the RAM usage, that you are noticing the leaks in the GS Viewer, right?
And you mentioned that you are using the Resolution Independence feature?
Well, when you test the game with the GS Viewer, you are still using those huge images on the iPod 2G. Those PNGs haven't been crushed yet and replaced by the publishing process.
I can only assume that that is using 4x the image RAM?
I would think that an iPhone 2G would get sad pretty fast.
It doesn't account for your ever increasing RAM though...
The leg animations are constrained to the speed. They are separated into 4 speed groups and each group has a different animation frame rate. If they were "ice skating"...that means a rule didn't fire correctly.
Gas is a good way to test this. The gas will slow a roach controller to 10% of its default speed and the speed of the roach animation is constrained in a separate tap actor to that dynamic speed generated by the controller. I saw it working correctly prior to when I published...perhaps something broke in the interim...I will look into that...but right now I am fighting RAM crashing issues....AGAIN.
Thanks for the Kudos as well.
The image load is MUCH lower on the iPod vs the iPhone4G we used to test it.
The default RAM loads are such:
4G>>>
30 FPS
43 MB image load
0 MB sound load
34 MB game engine load
21 MB other (whatever that is...we haven't figured that out yet)
99 MB TOTAL
iPod2G>>
17 FPS (slightly choppy but acceptable)
11 MB image load (same build as the 4G)
0 MB sound
36 MB game engine
4 MB other
51 MB TOTAL
Then with each restart of the physics scene...the game engine's load is the only one that creeps and it inflates about 6-7 MB with each restart...no matter what.
Once we reach about 65MB...it crashes out.
That's is all I have to go on...which is why I posted this evening in the other thread...hoping to God somebody explains to me why that number creeps and doesn't stay steady.
BTW:
Those RAM loads are after about 3 minutes of play...after they level out and stop climbing.
Also...
Viewer or not...the app crashes on a 2nd AdHoc iPod 2G test (separate device...different CPU) without using the viewer after a scene restart but not prior (usually).
I just had another look and let the game run, its the bugs with the green eyes which always move very fast, but as they get near the right hand side of the screen some seems to slow down but the legs still animate very fast!
I played your game...does the first level ever end?
I am using pretty much everything in GS that you are except for the Animate behavior, and the
Physics engine.
Those are my two main suspects right now. The physics engine is more complicated of course...
You also have that fairly complex Main Menu.
As a test, what if you create a new blank Scene with just a single 'return' button. If you jump from the Game Scene to the blank Scene, and back again, does that flush it out?
Another thing could be some Timer somewhere that's not releasing?
But yeah, your game definitely has an original look. And those menus are just BEAUTIFUL! Keep us posted on progress. Really would be a shame not to release something...even if only 3GS. That's what I did.. I know it might end up getting a couple of lower ratings and complaints but it's better than not releasing anything at all...
@FMG, thanks mate! Pretty much same here. And with the bosses - though it actually kind of adds to the 8 bit feel! And makes it a bit easier to dodge bullets. LOL. Hope you've played the latest build? I put in those fixes you suggested!
@Synth... you mentioned a racing game earlier? OOOOOOH! You have anything playable? I do fancy me a racer
the fact that destroying actors doesn't release the RAM for me is one of the most annoying things.. just seems so wasteful and ridiculous.. I'm really hoping with this new investment money that some real progress will be made in the near future.. I have hope and will be sticking through the tough times to hopefully take real rewards in the future..
See how many levels you can get in without it crashing. Hopefully about 10.
Release a lite version with those 10 levels in.
See what the reception's like.
If nothing improves on GS's side, then make the game using something else. IF it's got good enough feedback to warrant it.
I think you're taking a big risk wanting to make 100+ levels with the game you have now. Best to gauge the response before embarking on such a time consuming venture.
Good luck.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
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