BarkBarkCo said: Would a thread like this exist if it were a violation of the TOS/EULA? Probably not. Gendai's silence speaks volumes...
Not exactly... look as how long the spam has been allowed to survive.
It's a bit of a catch-22 for them. If they don't let people offer services with "Pro", then is it really "Pro" software? It's less of a legal issue for me and more of a moral issue. I like Gendai Games. They're cool people. I don't want to rip them off. Yet, I don't want them ripping me off either... $1999 per year is just too high for me.
You are right, if the price was too high, I would be a loss of business, but its been 2k for almost a year now.... I don't think they are losing any business.
mulcahy said: You are right, if the price was too high, I would be a loss of business, but its been 2k for almost a year now.... I don't think they are losing any business.
Well, from Gendai Game's perspective... what if you have 10 Pro subscribers? That's $20,000. What if you want to lower the price to $500. Do you give those 10 Pro subscribers a refund or do you just let them complain?
It's a small community. So, how many people will go pro? I'm thinking there are 10-20 that currently pay $2000 for pro, while 50-100 would pay $500 for Pro. So, what's the math?
20,000-40,000 vs 25,000-50,000... seems like more money and more people happy.
Also, I have about $50 left on my Express subscription. If I upgrade to Pro now, do I get that money back? As I was going through the Pro subscription process, I didn't see any such discounts.
They said last fall that you could upgrade from express to pro and pay the difference. This was back when express cost $500, you could buy express, and upgrade to pro for $1499 down the road.
As far as a price drop? I don't really see it in thie cards. They dropped the price of express from 500 to 100 within a few weeks, pro has always stayed the same.
GameSalad is an excellent introduction to iOS game development... it's a good intermediary between the desire to create a video game and raw code. None of the other tools currently available can match GameSalad in this arena.
However, if Gendai Games doesn't get in gear, severe community drift could occur. It seems that frustration is leading to innovation. There's only so far you can grow with GameSalad. Once you hit that limit, you start looking towards other development packages.
Without Game Center, iAds or hyperlinks, I feel GameSalad is limiting. I'm waiting to see if Gendai Games improves the situation. I don't want to go back to coding, but I already have Flash experience. Adobe fell behind. But without the 3rd-party restriction they might catch up... and quickly pass... Gendai Games.
But flash is no where as easy to use as gamesalad. I think people forget that. Nothing out there is as easy to use. Of course it has it's limitations, but I bet for every person to leaves to more robust tools, 2 start using gamesalad to make games. There is nothing easier.
firemaplegames said: I agree with mulcahy. And I am a professional AS3 coder.
I know GameSalad is easy, but basically nothing exciting is going on over here. It's just a bunch of waiting and that's getting annoying. I started discussing Flash / iOS stuff over at the Adobe website...
Photics said: It's just a bunch of waiting and that's getting annoying.
What are you waiting for exactly?
The next update is supposed to be a major performance increase as well as pause functionality. I realize that is exciting, but I wouldn't stop working on your games in the meantime.
I'm sure they are working on Game Center as well, but that is not a trivial thing to implement.
It's also not a trivial thing to add to your games. Designing fun achievements, etc. takes a lot of thought.
Plus it's a major consideration to design your game around Game Center any way, as Game Center does not work on older devices like the iPhone 3G and the 2nd gen. iPod Touch. If your game relies heavily on those features, people with older devices won't even get to enjoy them. Cutting out a large percentage of users is a tough decision.
firemaplegames said: What are you waiting for exactly?
It's not enough to just make games. I'm not just going to throw ideas against the wall and wait to see what sticks. There has to be a plan for success. I took a good look at the iTunes market. I have a strategy. Now, I'm deciding the best way to carry out that plan.
Remember when Steve Jobs said he was against third-party software because that means the developers would be hostage to the speed of the third-party software? If Apple wants to release a new feature, it can't be fully done until the third-party developers implement it. That's exactly what's happening with GameSalad.
I'd like to add Game Center to my GameSalad games. I can't. I have to wait. I'd like to add iAds to my game. I can't. I have to pay more money. I'd like to add hyperlinks, which would ironically lead to more popularity for GameSalad, but I can't.
That's a bad strategy. The future of my business is depending upon communication like "rhymes with iPad".
I like GameSalad because it's quick and easy, but perhaps that's not the best way for me to proceed. Perhaps I should just dig in and learn Lua or get back into Flash.
The biggest part of the next update is to see the progress of the software. If it seems to me that Gendai Games can no longer keep pace, then I see little choice than to move on.
Pause is a trivial feature to me.
I read a Corona review. In this review, many flaws with GameSalad were highlighted. I can't fix this problem. I'm waiting to see if Gendai Games fixes it. If I'm not impressed with the next update, as it's been hyped as a "big" update, then I'll have to seriously consider other development tools.
...and while I'm waiting for GameSalad to improve, I am researching other development tools. The main reason I'm here today is because Adobe messed up their beta. It wasn't a feature set problem... it was a problem of accurate and timely communication with the community.
Game Center does not work on older devices like the iPhone 3G and the 2nd gen. iPod Touch.
Photics said: Actually, it does work on second-generation iPod Touch...
That's good to know. They must have changed it recently. I could have sworn I read that it wasn't supported...
I think GameSalad was fantastic the moment I saw it back in December. It has only gotten better since. Having some basic programming concepts like arrays and loops would certainly help me out, but I am not waiting for them.
I can make fun games with GameSalad in its current state, I actually don't need any more features.
Honestly, anything they add is just gravy to me.
And I think GameSalad is miles ahead of the other engines. There is nothing that comes close to it as far as speed and ease of use is concerned.
To make a game in Unity or Flash, you need to not only be familiar with the software, but also proficient with the code. That is a serious time investment.
Going from making full-blown games to "Hello World" is always a little rough.
I don't think anyone would argue that flash isn't more powerful, but it's so much more difficult to learn. When I first picked up GameSalad, I had a full working prototype of my game Z is for Zombie done in an hour. 1 hour! it was all blocks of different colors, but the entire framework for the game was done. From having zero knowledge of GS, I made a game in 3 weeks, and was featured by apple 3 times. Name one other tool that you could do that with going in cold.
Unity, Flash, Torque, they are all much more powerful, but none of them are as approachable as GS.
Has anyone noticed that Gendi hasn't responded to this at all? This is AMAZING free advertising for them. This will make more people want to get pro just so they can make easy money modifying peoples apps for them. Gendi gets more money because more people want pro and they probably don't care if some money is going to be passed around because the people paying the pro members aren't the people who are going to get pro anyway.
Photics said: You're one of the main reason I'm doubtful about Flash. With your background, I'm surprised you're not advocating for Flash instead of GameSalad.
I love Flash too. And programming Flash helps me program GameSalad.
But I write thousands of lines of AS3 every day. GameSalad is a pleasure in comparison. Some things are tedious of course, but on the whole it's great.
And Flash has a full version of the Box2D library as well. But for me to create Danger Cats! in Flash and Box2D, it would easily be 20,000 lines of code.
firemaplegames said: That's good to know. They must have changed it recently. I could have sworn I read that it wasn't supported...
I think GameSalad was fantastic the moment I saw it back in December. It has only gotten better since. Having some basic programming concepts like arrays and loops would certainly help me out, but I am not waiting for them.
I can make fun games with GameSalad in its current state, I actually don't need any more features.
Honestly, anything they add is just gravy to me.
And I think GameSalad is miles ahead of the other engines. There is nothing that comes close to it as far as speed and ease of use is concerned.
To make a game in Unity or Flash, you need to not only be familiar with the software, but also proficient with the code. That is a serious time investment.
Going from making full-blown games to "Hello World" is always a little rough.
This. A thousand times.
There are people on these forums who have taken the bull by the horns and are releasing games pretty much every day.
Photics: Stusapps made a game in a day, and has made money off it that recouped his initial time investment.
'Throwing ideas out there and seeing what sticks' is a more viable business decision than moaning about what you don't have and what you *believe* will make you successful while essentially doing nothing.
'If only' will only get you so far in this crazy adventure we call life. DO SOMETHING.
I'm a new member, but I found this page searching google. I am a freelance developer (see my work at goldenrule.com), but I have recently been getting into iads, with the nice little boom that has started in that world. Email me at markslay@hotmail.com. thanks
Comments
It's a bit of a catch-22 for them. If they don't let people offer services with "Pro", then is it really "Pro" software? It's less of a legal issue for me and more of a moral issue. I like Gendai Games. They're cool people. I don't want to rip them off. Yet, I don't want them ripping me off either... $1999 per year is just too high for me.
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It's a small community. So, how many people will go pro? I'm thinking there are 10-20 that currently pay $2000 for pro, while 50-100 would pay $500 for Pro. So, what's the math?
20,000-40,000 vs 25,000-50,000... seems like more money and more people happy.
Also, I have about $50 left on my Express subscription. If I upgrade to Pro now, do I get that money back? As I was going through the Pro subscription process, I didn't see any such discounts.
As far as a price drop? I don't really see it in thie cards. They dropped the price of express from 500 to 100 within a few weeks, pro has always stayed the same.
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However, if Gendai Games doesn't get in gear, severe community drift could occur. It seems that frustration is leading to innovation. There's only so far you can grow with GameSalad. Once you hit that limit, you start looking towards other development packages.
Without Game Center, iAds or hyperlinks, I feel GameSalad is limiting. I'm waiting to see if Gendai Games improves the situation. I don't want to go back to coding, but I already have Flash experience. Adobe fell behind. But without the 3rd-party restriction they might catch up... and quickly pass... Gendai Games.
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http://forums.adobe.com/thread/721832
...and it reminds me why I like GameSalad. Heh, there isn't a pretty little icon that says, "Publish". No, it's a bit more complicated than that.
The next update is supposed to be a major performance increase as well as pause functionality.
I realize that is exciting, but I wouldn't stop working on your games in the meantime.
I'm sure they are working on Game Center as well, but that is not a trivial thing to implement.
It's also not a trivial thing to add to your games. Designing fun achievements, etc. takes a lot of thought.
Plus it's a major consideration to design your game around Game Center any way, as Game Center does not work on older devices like the iPhone 3G and the 2nd gen. iPod Touch. If your game relies heavily on those features, people with older devices won't even get to enjoy them. Cutting out a large percentage of users is a tough decision.
Remember when Steve Jobs said he was against third-party software because that means the developers would be hostage to the speed of the third-party software? If Apple wants to release a new feature, it can't be fully done until the third-party developers implement it. That's exactly what's happening with GameSalad.
I'd like to add Game Center to my GameSalad games. I can't. I have to wait.
I'd like to add iAds to my game. I can't. I have to pay more money.
I'd like to add hyperlinks, which would ironically lead to more popularity for GameSalad, but I can't.
That's a bad strategy. The future of my business is depending upon communication like "rhymes with iPad".
I like GameSalad because it's quick and easy, but perhaps that's not the best way for me to proceed. Perhaps I should just dig in and learn Lua or get back into Flash.
The biggest part of the next update is to see the progress of the software. If it seems to me that Gendai Games can no longer keep pace, then I see little choice than to move on.
Pause is a trivial feature to me.
I read a Corona review. In this review, many flaws with GameSalad were highlighted. I can't fix this problem. I'm waiting to see if Gendai Games fixes it. If I'm not impressed with the next update, as it's been hyped as a "big" update, then I'll have to seriously consider other development tools.
...and while I'm waiting for GameSalad to improve, I am researching other development tools. The main reason I'm here today is because Adobe messed up their beta. It wasn't a feature set problem... it was a problem of accurate and timely communication with the community. Actually, it does work on second-generation iPod Touch...
http://toucharcade.com/2010/09/08/game-center-coming-to-2nd-generation-ipod-touch-but-not-iphone-3g/
I think GameSalad was fantastic the moment I saw it back in December. It has only gotten better since. Having some basic programming concepts like arrays and loops would certainly help me out, but I am not waiting for them.
I can make fun games with GameSalad in its current state, I actually don't need any more features.
Honestly, anything they add is just gravy to me.
And I think GameSalad is miles ahead of the other engines. There is nothing that comes close to it as far as speed and ease of use is concerned.
To make a game in Unity or Flash, you need to not only be familiar with the software, but also proficient with the code. That is a serious time investment.
Going from making full-blown games to "Hello World" is always a little rough.
Unity, Flash, Torque, they are all much more powerful, but none of them are as approachable as GS.
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Please e-mail me at vasilioufan@aol.com
So we can talk better.
Thanks
But I write thousands of lines of AS3 every day. GameSalad is a pleasure in comparison. Some things are tedious of course, but on the whole it's great.
And Flash has a full version of the Box2D library as well. But for me to create Danger Cats! in Flash and Box2D, it would easily be 20,000 lines of code.
There are people on these forums who have taken the bull by the horns and are releasing games pretty much every day.
Photics: Stusapps made a game in a day, and has made money off it that recouped his initial time investment.
'Throwing ideas out there and seeing what sticks' is a more viable business decision than moaning about what you don't have and what you *believe* will make you successful while essentially doing nothing.
'If only' will only get you so far in this crazy adventure we call life. DO SOMETHING.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
at vasilioufan@aol.com
If the later, you might want to wait for 0.9 to drop as thing might have changed for express members.