@adado... But unless Gamesalad is trying to implement their own APIs...then it still would not be an issue. I have never seen the raw XCode templates generated by the compiler (since its locked away on their server)...so I do not know how they are compiling our XML.
My hunch is...if Gendai has half a brain (and I think they do)...then they are using standard APIs to generate the native XCode bundles...and the compiled app is 100% compliant to the Apple standards. If not...then Gendai will need to straighten things out to maintain compliance.
Regardless...I suspect it is a non-issue. Language like the quote on the first post of this thread already existed...it was only reworded a bit to allow Apple to have more control. I have a feeling OpenFeint's days are numbered. iTunes will replace openFeint. Plus AdMob will be replaced by Apple's new internal ad service. Flash and GameSalad are not the one's being targeted (yet that is...Orbz made good points in that dept.)
I would imagine Apple is worried about the top end (up near 1) of this list:
` 1. Actual app embedded interpretors for non-Apple approved computer languages/script languages especially those deemed hostile to Apple
2. Custom processing engines that run scripts and/or interpret structures
3. App generators that convert some other language and/or markup language(s) into native code
4. XCode/IB/SDK apps with Third-Party SDKs
5. XCode/IB/SDK apps with custom in-house SDKs
6. XCode/IB/SDK apps ` Examples of these would equate to:
1. An embedded Java interpretor or a Flash interpretor (not the new Flash native app CS5) 2. GameSalad 3. Appcelerator, PhoneGap, or Adobe Flash CS5 4. Apps using OpenFeint, adMob, etc. 5. Apps by Joe Blow using Joe Blow created libraries across multiple apps and maybe releasing as open source for others 6. Straight old app
I think GameSalad is around the '2' area but maybe it is a bit '2' and '3'.
GS feels like it may have some sort of embedded engine in it with the way it lacks performance and the way it retains your "gameproj" file in the XCode bundle. There are also a couple "gameproj" references in the "strings" output in addition a reference to all the various GS XML filenames. Now that is not definitive proof but it is a concern after paying money and dedicating time to GS. And no, I'm not doing and decompiles or reverse engineering...just running a quick "strings" command.
Hopefully it is not the case but I have to wonder why GS had to say "they can be clever."
Again... Apple just announced their own "Game Center" and "iAds" service today. They want to get rid of OpenFeint and AdMob and take their royalties/control away from them. They are offering devs 60% royalties to incorporate iAds into their apps. They view the search engine a thing of the past and inApp google ad feeds the future. They are only talking with Google right now. They want a piece of google's ad revenue by distributing google ads inside iPhone apps. Goodbye AdMob and OpenFeint!!! (and anything else that is similar).
Don't sweat it...GS should be more concerned about a free OpenSource replacement to them popping up rather than Apple blocking them. If they don't bring their prices down and get the bugs fixed soon...its gonna probably happen sooner than later.
@Syn: Of course they are targeting AdMob for revenue and to some extent OpenFeint and its kin for a more cohesive and controllable experience (not to mention what they can tack on for sale in the GameCenter).
I'm not arguing with you, only stating that the way GS appears to operate and the way it "feels", it reminds me of a Flash interpreter. It would be great for GS to shed some light on it unless they think less info in this case is better.
I could see Apple having some concerns regarding low quality "taptard" apps (to borrow one of your terms) and trying to control some of the possible sources of it. With the ease GS introduces app creation to the masses, it does open up the door for apps of all qualities especially in the lower quality spectrum by inexperienced folk or folk without graphical skills (i.e. me). A lot of our apps, mine included, don't compare to most of the top apps out there.
It will be interesting to see which Apple values more: more revenue including revenue from "taptard" apps or more quality by trying to restrict sources
(yeah, and I know the old Flash in a iDevice browser would circumvent the App Store thing)
Your "taptard" point is of course the wild card. The pro devs are EXTREMELY LOUD about the increased inflow of "taptard" apps. They spend months developing games and in the meantime, 5000 taptards flood the market that we built in a weekend. The taptard games muddy the waters.
I do not know if Apple will use their power to divide the waters. I would think they would divide the appStore before banning taptards. I would think they would initiate the pro-Tunes store and divide access to the stores between the indie devs and pro dev SDK accounts. And then overlay a "quality control" check for final acceptance to the "pro-store". This is what the big names are screaming for...separation from the "taptards".
AGAIN...not trying to offend anyone here...just pointing out an issue within the AppStore environment. I am building a taptard game as we speak. Hopefully its a good tapTard game.
As far as how GS operates internally...your guess is as good as mine...THEY ARE TOO SILENT. We have no idea...so I have to assume...they are walking a tightrope between being financially stable and being able to pull off something like GS...with apparantly 2 or 3 guys total at the helm of it. Not enough to compete with OpenSource when it shows up.
But hey...I still like GS (its 10 times faster to dev on than Flash and 100 times faster than raw code)...they really just need to get the thing WORKING!!!
Thanks. I'm wondering what Apple is thinking. This unclear statement in the License Agreement opens the door for rumours and speculations. I think GameSalad should talk with Apple about it and inform us about what's going on. Hopefully GameSalad can be used in the future, too. There are hundreds of creative people out there don't wanting to waste time with huge development environments and complex languages as Objective-C. Would be sad if they all would be locked out.
I'll choose a black sambucca...(I actually get to drink tonight for the first time properly in 5 months, the wife is taking the new born off to Manchester....my fridge is packed with brewskys and a night of disorder has been err...organized?)
... fingers crossed I can get Quake Builder out before OS 4.0 gets implemented ... just incase it takes GS a while to adapt...
I wonder if our games will work with the Apple Game Network thing. Look like they are going to kick OpenFeint out of the bed as well as Adobe...
@cap... I concur my good friend. Between 3 kids and a 4th on the way, I have next to no time to learn complex languages. Plus, I like GS. The community has been very helpful thus far and is a great way to announce our games.
I have a feeling it will go through, I went ahead and signed it too and plan on submitting a game for the iphone some time this weekend or early next week, let us know how it goes!
you have news from GS staff? can you answer to us? james (sorry for my bad english)..the your game was accepted now? you advise of not agree the new contract? i have sent the my game yesterday, and i haven't agree the new Iphone developer contract...i will hope that my game is accepted :S
Comments
But unless Gamesalad is trying to implement their own APIs...then it still would not be an issue. I have never seen the raw XCode templates generated by the compiler (since its locked away on their server)...so I do not know how they are compiling our XML.
My hunch is...if Gendai has half a brain (and I think they do)...then they are using standard APIs to generate the native XCode bundles...and the compiled app is 100% compliant to the Apple standards. If not...then Gendai will need to straighten things out to maintain compliance.
Regardless...I suspect it is a non-issue. Language like the quote on the first post of this thread already existed...it was only reworded a bit to allow Apple to have more control. I have a feeling OpenFeint's days are numbered. iTunes will replace openFeint. Plus AdMob will be replaced by Apple's new internal ad service. Flash and GameSalad are not the one's being targeted (yet that is...Orbz made good points in that dept.)
If you want more info about it...read my postlink here.
http://www.gsproforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&p=98#p98
`
1. Actual app embedded interpretors for non-Apple approved computer languages/script languages especially those deemed hostile to Apple
2. Custom processing engines that run scripts and/or interpret structures
3. App generators that convert some other language and/or markup language(s) into native code
4. XCode/IB/SDK apps with Third-Party SDKs
5. XCode/IB/SDK apps with custom in-house SDKs
6. XCode/IB/SDK apps
`
Examples of these would equate to:
1. An embedded Java interpretor or a Flash interpretor (not the new Flash native app CS5)
2. GameSalad
3. Appcelerator, PhoneGap, or Adobe Flash CS5
4. Apps using OpenFeint, adMob, etc.
5. Apps by Joe Blow using Joe Blow created libraries across multiple apps and maybe releasing as open source for others
6. Straight old app
I think GameSalad is around the '2' area but maybe it is a bit '2' and '3'.
Hopefully it is not the case but I have to wonder why GS had to say "they can be clever."
Apple just announced their own "Game Center" and "iAds" service today. They want to get rid of OpenFeint and AdMob and take their royalties/control away from them. They are offering devs 60% royalties to incorporate iAds into their apps. They view the search engine a thing of the past and inApp google ad feeds the future. They are only talking with Google right now. They want a piece of google's ad revenue by distributing google ads inside iPhone apps. Goodbye AdMob and OpenFeint!!! (and anything else that is similar).
Read the linked article about the press release...it will make all this make more sense.
http://www.gsproforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&p=98#p98
Don't sweat it...GS should be more concerned about a free OpenSource replacement to them popping up rather than Apple blocking them. If they don't bring their prices down and get the bugs fixed soon...its gonna probably happen sooner than later.
I'm not arguing with you, only stating that the way GS appears to operate and the way it "feels", it reminds me of a Flash interpreter. It would be great for GS to shed some light on it unless they think less info in this case is better.
I could see Apple having some concerns regarding low quality "taptard" apps (to borrow one of your terms) and trying to control some of the possible sources of it. With the ease GS introduces app creation to the masses, it does open up the door for apps of all qualities especially in the lower quality spectrum by inexperienced folk or folk without graphical skills (i.e. me). A lot of our apps, mine included, don't compare to most of the top apps out there.
It will be interesting to see which Apple values more: more revenue including revenue from "taptard" apps or more quality by trying to restrict sources
(yeah, and I know the old Flash in a iDevice browser would circumvent the App Store thing)
The pro devs are EXTREMELY LOUD about the increased inflow of "taptard" apps. They spend months developing games and in the meantime, 5000 taptards flood the market that we built in a weekend. The taptard games muddy the waters.
I do not know if Apple will use their power to divide the waters. I would think they would divide the appStore before banning taptards. I would think they would initiate the pro-Tunes store and divide access to the stores between the indie devs and pro dev SDK accounts. And then overlay a "quality control" check for final acceptance to the "pro-store". This is what the big names are screaming for...separation from the "taptards".
AGAIN...not trying to offend anyone here...just pointing out an issue within the AppStore environment. I am building a taptard game as we speak. Hopefully its a good tapTard game.
As far as how GS operates internally...your guess is as good as mine...THEY ARE TOO SILENT. We have no idea...so I have to assume...they are walking a tightrope between being financially stable and being able to pull off something like GS...with apparantly 2 or 3 guys total at the helm of it. Not enough to compete with OpenSource when it shows up.
But hey...I still like GS (its 10 times faster to dev on than Flash and 100 times faster than raw code)...they really just need to get the thing WORKING!!!
Hope it works out with apple (just bought an mac mini to use gamesalad).
Thanks. I'm wondering what Apple is thinking. This unclear statement in the License Agreement opens the door for rumours and speculations.
I think GameSalad should talk with Apple about it and inform us about what's going on.
Hopefully GameSalad can be used in the future, too. There are hundreds of creative people out there don't wanting to waste time with huge development environments and complex languages as Objective-C. Would be sad if they all would be locked out.
I'll choose a black sambucca...(I actually get to drink tonight for the first time properly in 5 months, the wife is taking the new born off to Manchester....my fridge is packed with brewskys and a night of disorder has been err...organized?)
... fingers crossed I can get Quake Builder out before OS 4.0 gets implemented ... just incase it takes GS a while to adapt...
I wonder if our games will work with the Apple Game Network thing. Look like they are going to kick OpenFeint out of the bed as well as Adobe...
You're missing one really big part of this whoel thing
The license agreement is already out - and must be signed by 4/22
Its not part of 4.0 those two subjects just got meshed together
or is there not an option to do that?
although in the happy world of my mind I'm assuming it will all be fine in the end anyway.
And the worlds greatest game ever "Monkey Car" will be submitted today
Ill let you guys know
I really dont think it will effect us
It was an iphone game
Looks like they aren't blocking us yet even though i had signed
james (sorry for my bad english)..the your game was accepted now?
you advise of not agree the new contract? i have sent the my game yesterday, and i haven't agree the new Iphone developer contract...i will hope that my game is accepted :S
Personally i doubt it will effect us but if it does it liley wont until the 22nd
As of now we are safe it lools
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU
I really hope Apple doesn't ban GameSalad.....
Oh well......
Been nice knowing you guys....
Oh, wait, I don't know what that means either.
The nerves on edge thing is catchy.
If it does, well, that could mean we are screwed, cause it seems like Apple is trying to get rid of anything remotely connected to Adobe.
If it doesn't, well, then we are still safe....for now.