GS is using Box2D physics which is written in Lua. Adobe decided to fund Lua. My suspicion is that Flash CS5 will look to use Lua physics (if it hasn't already) into their platform. Looks like Flash may try to incorporate Physics elements into a Flash game engine capability.
We will have to wait for the CS5 release...and see what is in it and what isn't. My hunch is that CS5 will not have physics in it...but will have tools Pointing to Lua Physics. perhaps CS6 will have full featured physics integrated into the Flash platform.
Who knows though...ALL OF THIS is pure speculation. My suggestion is go make games and worry about the storm if it actually comes/materializes.
@koda89...how rude...j/k...I thought the same thing about me when I found it
I am concern about the fact that we're using cocoa2D written in Lua, which by this new license agreement, seems like it will be prohibited when compiling.
I still think it doesn't make sense. I get why apple doesn't like flash in general. Flash games on the internet are a form of competition that apple has the ability to do something about (by not allowing flash in safari for iphone/ipad).
But how does blocking GS games benefit apple in anyway? It just loses them money.
I think this is going to simply be used as a way to take over the admob market and the +plus/openfient markets and try to deliver a fatal blow to flash.
So while it seems that Apple is targeting Adobe mainly with this article, they would do a full sweep of the programs that work in a similar manner. Which may include GS, I don't know.
Hm, I just started to use GameSalad, and I really like it. It would be a shame if we wouldn't be able to create games for the iDevices anymore, because that's exactly the killer feature of this environment. What do you think, could GameSalad be changed in a way to fit the new License Agreement? I read today about an app creating tool called "Corona" (never heard it before). The devs of this tool are sure this new agreement doesn't affect them at all, as the executable binaries built using Corona would be 100% Objective-C. Wouldn't this be possible using GameSalad? May be a silly question, but I'm really new to GameSalad, so I don't know..?
I think Apple is VERY close to anti-competitive lawsuit territory here.
Think about it - if you buy an iPhone or iPad - you MUST buy all software from Apple and now you must develop ALL software using Apple's SDK.
Could even Microsoft get away with that?
That's like Honda saying when you buy one of their cars, you must buy all your gas from a Honda dealership.
Personally I hope Adobe and the SEC take them to task for this continuing monopolistic behavior - only a class action lawsuit against Apple will having any long term affect of their crappy treatment of developers and the closed market of their customers.
i dont think there is much of a anti trust case as its only applicable to their own products.
I dont think have to let anyone at all develop for them. It is 100% thier product Iphone OS doesnt appear on other devices.
With Microsoft it was different because their OS was on multiple brands of computers.
As a consumer people dont have to buy an iphone and as a developer you dont have to develop for Iphone. If apple was the only company you could develop for their may be a case then
It like you cant just bust down sony's door and say you have to release albums for my band too.
After reading Eastbound's link... I am starting to turn towards this could be the end of translators. We shall see.
According to Apple...3rd party apps (such as GS, Torque, Appcelerator, etc.) make up about 1-2% of the appstore. Meaning about 95%+ of the apps are native XCode programmed. With Flash on the horizon...this could be a power play by Apple. If the small devs (like us using GS) get "destroyed" in the process...so be it (in Apple's eyes)...they are collateral damage of the bomb being dropped on Flash.
According to Apple...Flash is responsible for 9/10 or more of the stability crashes of the Mac OS. This is why they hate Flash. It is responsible for most of the OS problems...and its a resource hog. I think they are moving to a 100% ban of Flash on Apple.
This is BAD for indie's like us. Good for XCode devs (if they know the language as they will now be the most in demand). If you are a programmer...learn XCode NOW!!!
Only time will tell if GameSalad survives this 180 degree shift in Apple...or if it is truly going to change things...and all this could be speculation of the unknown.
However...on the bright side...don't expect Adobe to just throw their hands up and say "Oh-well." If there is a way in...they will find it...and others will follow their precedence.
Remember...the iPhone and mobile technology is an EMERGING technology and changes at lightning speed. You have to be nimble and quick. Just be ready and go with the flow...and keep chasing the leader...in this case Apple!
I think Gamesalad will be safe because when your app is built it sends it back in Objective C. I think the reason this clause is in the SDK 4.0 is because Flash CS5 will bypass Obj C when packaging apps for iPhone. Just have to see how it pans out when it's properly analysed. Hopefully GS staff will blog about it to clear up the confusion.
Just to think that they released this info 3 DAYS before the Flash CS5 launch, when the boxes all have iPhone support printed on them, and Adobe spent so much time trying to streamline the service.
As Syn said: "According to Apple...Flash is responsible for 9/10 or more of the stability crashes of the Mac OS. This is why they hate Flash. It is responsible for most of the OS problems...and its a resource hog."
Hmm true I guess. if they worked together im sure they could re-create something like flash. This is why companies are not evolving as much as they could be. To busy working against each other.
Look at us at game-salad. All good friends who help each other for great games If it was the opposite I don't think any of us would have games that we have today.
It's not that Jobs hates Adobe, he just hates Flash as it makes things run so slugiishly. I'm sure he loves Photoshop and all ther other apps. I think that's imortant to note. Understandably Adobe is frustrated after spending probablys thousands of dollars to get the iPhone conversion working and is now beujbg blocked out. However I don't like Adobe's attitude no matter how annoying. Someone high up in adobe said Apple can go screw themselves, saw on Macrumors.
It is also very fair that Apple only wants apps written in their language on the iPhone as understandably as a business they want much more support and users for their language and products. Also it is made and opimized for their own products so why would you want other companies feeding of your success and having people buy their software rather than their own.
I'm hoping and believing GameSalad should be more or less on safe water. If they are not I'm sure they are capable of quickly managing to get back on safe ground. It's different with Flash as that's an utterly different language all together and competely different platform, whereas GameSalad I presume as a Mac program specfically made for this function is written in C, C# and C++ and if it does dip into using other languages probabaly only lightly and enough to swap it out with another.
Hmmm, I thought I had more to say. I rambled to much, haha.
"ORIGINALLY written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript" is what we have to agree to and GS is a long long way away from that. But without knowing more its all just speculation so I hope for everyones sake it works out ok.
So even Unity 3D is now gonna be banned? Freaking A! Apple's just killing all my plans for making any iPhone/iPad games, aren't they? I was going to use Unity 3D once I started taking coding classes.......
Well I've been creepin on the Unity forums, and the conversations sound pretty much the same as over here.
I honestly don't believe this will affect us, or even Unity for that matter. However, it's that tiny bit of fear that it will affect us that keeps me checking different forums and blogs
Hell, I gotta stop this !@#$%. I get to see Elton John perform in an hour and a half
Just a thought. these are rules made up by apple. which means they can choose how and when/if to enforce them. It wouldn't be the first time they've done this. Ipad games MUST be able to auto rotate - but the GS logo does not and some of the GS ipad apps have gotten through. I'm sure there is something written into their rules about blatant copyright enfringement but mario jump games, doodle jumper, doodle drop, mario sound baords etc. are approved. Isn't this just apple saying we reserve the right to reject apps for a new reason. But it's their store and their devices - seems like they've always been able to reject our apps for whatever the hell reason they want to cook up. And they haven't - so why would they kill GS apps now? Isn't this just them saying they could reject our GS made apps if they wanted to? Hell, they featured GS on their own site a few months ago.
That does not sound good; however, I wonder if that particular person on the phone knows EXACTLY what a GS build binary looks like and/or EXACTLY what Apple is looking for when screening for this new ban?
How did you describe GameSalad to him? Maybe he is just assuming 3rd party programs are not allowed now without knowing enough details about GameSalad?
I doubt dev support even has a clue at this point what this all means.
It just puts a damper on everything because even if it all works out in the interim, and we can continue to make games, they could still pull the plug on us down the line, and it makes everything uneasy
I'm filling the bathtub with water, plugging in the hair dryer, sharpening my knife. Large glass of wine and some pills by the bedside. Skateboard at the top of the stairs. Everything is nicely laid out now...
What about the 185,000 apps available right now? Unless every one of those apps is updated, then not all apps will be compatible with multi-tasking.
And if the dev of an app won't, or can't, do the update... then people that have paid money for that app will feel pissed off if it's not compatible...
Comments
We will have to wait for the CS5 release...and see what is in it and what isn't.
My hunch is that CS5 will not have physics in it...but will have tools Pointing to Lua Physics. perhaps CS6 will have full featured physics integrated into the Flash platform.
Who knows though...ALL OF THIS is pure speculation. My suggestion is go make games and worry about the storm if it actually comes/materializes.
Lighten up everyone!
EDIT - and yeah, what Syn says.
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
@koda89...how rude...j/k...I thought the same thing about me when I found it
I am concern about the fact that we're using cocoa2D written in Lua, which by this new license agreement, seems like it will be prohibited when compiling.
@synth, flash CS5 will come with new physics form what I gathered from here: http://labs.makingwaves.com/2009/11/04/flash-cs5-physics/
I am still working on another game but continue looking out the window to see how's the weather and how clouds are gathering if any.
I could be wrong though. :-)
But how does blocking GS games benefit apple in anyway? It just loses them money.
I think this is going to simply be used as a way to take over the admob market and the +plus/openfient markets and try to deliver a fatal blow to flash.
i didn't pay $99 yet but if i will and then my game will be band i will request refund.
you can be sure about that!
So while it seems that Apple is targeting Adobe mainly with this article, they would do a full sweep of the programs that work in a similar manner. Which may include GS, I don't know.
What do you think, could GameSalad be changed in a way to fit the new License Agreement?
I read today about an app creating tool called "Corona" (never heard it before). The devs of this tool are sure this new agreement doesn't affect them at all, as the executable binaries built using Corona would be 100% Objective-C.
Wouldn't this be possible using GameSalad? May be a silly question, but I'm really new to GameSalad, so I don't know..?
Think about it - if you buy an iPhone or iPad - you MUST buy all software from Apple and now you must develop ALL software using Apple's SDK.
Could even Microsoft get away with that?
That's like Honda saying when you buy one of their cars, you must buy all your gas from a Honda dealership.
Personally I hope Adobe and the SEC take them to task for this continuing monopolistic behavior - only a class action lawsuit against Apple will having any long term affect of their crappy treatment of developers and the closed market of their customers.
I dont think have to let anyone at all develop for them. It is 100% thier product Iphone OS doesnt appear on other devices.
With Microsoft it was different because their OS was on multiple brands of computers.
As a consumer people dont have to buy an iphone and as a developer you dont have to develop for Iphone. If apple was the only company you could develop for their may be a case then
It like you cant just bust down sony's door and say you have to release albums for my band too.
I could be wrong though.
Now where is the splash fix for GS
I am starting to turn towards this could be the end of translators.
We shall see.
According to Apple...3rd party apps (such as GS, Torque, Appcelerator, etc.) make up about 1-2% of the appstore. Meaning about 95%+ of the apps are native XCode programmed. With Flash on the horizon...this could be a power play by Apple. If the small devs (like us using GS) get "destroyed" in the process...so be it (in Apple's eyes)...they are collateral damage of the bomb being dropped on Flash.
According to Apple...Flash is responsible for 9/10 or more of the stability crashes of the Mac OS. This is why they hate Flash. It is responsible for most of the OS problems...and its a resource hog. I think they are moving to a 100% ban of Flash on Apple.
This is BAD for indie's like us. Good for XCode devs (if they know the language as they will now be the most in demand). If you are a programmer...learn XCode NOW!!!
Only time will tell if GameSalad survives this 180 degree shift in Apple...or if it is truly going to change things...and all this could be speculation of the unknown.
However...on the bright side...don't expect Adobe to just throw their hands up and say "Oh-well." If there is a way in...they will find it...and others will follow their precedence.
Remember...the iPhone and mobile technology is an EMERGING technology and changes at lightning speed. You have to be nimble and quick. Just be ready and go with the flow...and keep chasing the leader...in this case Apple!
Jobs REALLY dislikes them.
As Syn said:
"According to Apple...Flash is responsible for 9/10 or more of the stability crashes of the Mac OS. This is why they hate Flash. It is responsible for most of the OS problems...and its a resource hog."
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Look at us at game-salad. All good friends who help each other for great games
It is also very fair that Apple only wants apps written in their language on the iPhone as understandably as a business they want much more support and users for their language and products. Also it is made and opimized for their own products so why would you want other companies feeding of your success and having people buy their software rather than their own.
I'm hoping and believing GameSalad should be more or less on safe water. If they are not I'm sure they are capable of quickly managing to get back on safe ground. It's different with Flash as that's an utterly different language all together and competely different platform, whereas GameSalad I presume as a Mac program specfically made for this function is written in C, C# and C++ and if it does dip into using other languages probabaly only lightly and enough to swap it out with another.
Hmmm, I thought I had more to say.
"ORIGINALLY written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript" is what we have to agree to and GS is a long long way away from that. But without knowing more its all just speculation so I hope for everyones sake it works out ok.
I honestly don't believe this will affect us, or even Unity for that matter. However, it's that tiny bit of fear that it will affect us that keeps me checking different forums and blogs
Hell, I gotta stop this !@#$%. I get to see Elton John perform in an hour and a half
That does not sound good; however, I wonder if that particular person on the phone knows EXACTLY what a GS build binary looks like and/or EXACTLY what Apple is looking for when screening for this new ban?
How did you describe GameSalad to him? Maybe he is just assuming 3rd party programs are not allowed now without knowing enough details about GameSalad?
It just puts a damper on everything because even if it all works out in the interim, and we can continue to make games, they could still pull the plug on us down the line, and it makes everything uneasy
Well it *kinda* makes sense.
What about the 185,000 apps available right now? Unless every one of those apps is updated, then not all apps will be compatible with multi-tasking.
And if the dev of an app won't, or can't, do the update... then people that have paid money for that app will feel pissed off if it's not compatible...
See what I mean?
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io