Hey GameSalad, what about Opt-Out from tracking?
Photics
Member Posts: 4,172
I'm working on a super-secret project. It's so secret, not even the client knows about it yet. They know me though. They also know that I wrote The Unofficial GameSalad Textbook, so I don't see a problem in telling them that the project was made with GameSalad. I think it's kinda cool actually.
What I do have a problem with is this...
http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/55387/gs-vs-analytics
Am I misunderstanding the situation? Does GameSalad track the apps created with the software? Is that data sent through Google Analytics? (Even if it's anonymous data, it could still be a problem for the project.)
This is a high-profile client. The details are going to matter. I don't want to have to explain to them that the apps I create are going to send information to Google and to GameSalad itself. How's that part of the conversation going to go? I think it could be awkward. It could be so weird that I've been thinking about using different... but more difficult to use... software. I can get the job done with other tools, but it won't be as fun or quick as with GameSalad.
That's unfortunate. I've been looking for reasons to get excited about GameSalad again. This project could be a reason. Additionally, GameSalad could make short work of this project. With Tables, text management, camera control, intuitive interface, universal binary support and strong iOS support, GameSalad is near perfect for this project. (I think the only thing missing would be asynchronous multiplayer support.)
I can't have my apps phoning home. Even if it's anonymous user data, it's still a data leak. It's not very professional. This project is at a higher level. When I go in the room to present this game, I plan to impress. Does that mean I have to forget about GameSalad?
For years, that's my main issue with GameSalad. I realize it's game creation for everyone... but that should mean professional developers too. Pro should really mean pro. I think that means developers should have the option to remove any tracking from the app.
So, GameSalad... what's up?!
What I do have a problem with is this...
http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/55387/gs-vs-analytics
Am I misunderstanding the situation? Does GameSalad track the apps created with the software? Is that data sent through Google Analytics? (Even if it's anonymous data, it could still be a problem for the project.)
This is a high-profile client. The details are going to matter. I don't want to have to explain to them that the apps I create are going to send information to Google and to GameSalad itself. How's that part of the conversation going to go? I think it could be awkward. It could be so weird that I've been thinking about using different... but more difficult to use... software. I can get the job done with other tools, but it won't be as fun or quick as with GameSalad.
That's unfortunate. I've been looking for reasons to get excited about GameSalad again. This project could be a reason. Additionally, GameSalad could make short work of this project. With Tables, text management, camera control, intuitive interface, universal binary support and strong iOS support, GameSalad is near perfect for this project. (I think the only thing missing would be asynchronous multiplayer support.)
I can't have my apps phoning home. Even if it's anonymous user data, it's still a data leak. It's not very professional. This project is at a higher level. When I go in the room to present this game, I plan to impress. Does that mean I have to forget about GameSalad?
For years, that's my main issue with GameSalad. I realize it's game creation for everyone... but that should mean professional developers too. Pro should really mean pro. I think that means developers should have the option to remove any tracking from the app.
So, GameSalad... what's up?!
Comments
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
Chakku
At this level, a screw-up can be very bad. The best way to protect the customers that use the app is to not send any data. It's not like I get to see that data anyway. So if GameSalad is leveraging my apps for information gathering, I'm not comfortable with that. The client might not be either. I don't know. Yet, bringing it up can turn the conversation into directions that are not fun.
Sure, I think it's cool to help GameSalad. That's why it should be Opt-In/Opt-Out. If developers are not comfortable with sending over customer data, or if the project demands that such action not occur, then developers should have that option. As an example, my Mac tries to send crash data to Apple... but it asks for permission first.
The kinds of stats that we track are anonymous and are used to help us understand how users interact with our software and what devices and OS support we need to provide. There's nothing nefarious about it. And it's quite a common practice used by nearly every website and app in existence!
Let's clarify some stuff. In our terms of use agreement with you there's a paragraph that says:
"You acknowledge and agree that GameSalad may collect certain data arising from and regarding the use of your Submissions by users of the Site and Services, that GameSalad shall own all right, title and interest in such data, and that GameSalad has no obligation to share with you any such data."
I suggest you take the time to read the terms of use agreement if you haven't already:
Terms of Use: http://gamesalad.com/terms
It's also important to note that this kind of tracking is common practice. Even Unity does it! Check out their privacy policy here: http://unity3d.com/company/legal/privacy-policy
The relevant information is:
"When you download, install, and play games published or distributed by Unity, we may collect Non-Personal Information, including your IP address and, as well as anonymous usage statistics about your interactions with the game."
Collecting these kinds of anonymous stats is important to our business so we can make fully informed decisions about our direction. Without it we'd be operating blindly about many platform and device-related decisions.
I hope this clarifies things. Let me know if you have any further questions about it!
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
I don't know your situation, but I wouldn't move away from GS just for this. As you said, it's more fun, and much faster with GS. As I said, I don't know your situation, but this is just my opinion.
Chakku
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
Sorry!
Chakku
I'm surprised that GameSalad wouldn't have enough data from the apps made with the free version of GameSalad... or data that's available online.
http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-ww-monthly-201204-201304
http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html
I have two ideas on how to solve my problem, but those solutions are much harder than using GameSalad. With GameSalad, I could finish this project in a weekend. With the alternatives, it might take me a month... even several months! It does seem like there's greater concern about tracking lately... like when I visit a site in the UK, I get that cookie warning. What's the big issue about cookies? Apparently, it's a big issue over there. Tracking also seems to be a big issue in California... http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/12/ca-to-app-devs-get-privacy-policies-or-risk-2500-per-download-fines/
CodeWizard is right, added tracking does seem to be the norm with game development software like GameSalad. Yet, if game developers accept this... how far will the rabbit hole go?
Even if it takes a little longer, I think the project will be stronger without tracking. I grew up in an era where games were on carts. My Nintendo Entertainment System didn't track me when I played Super Mario Bros... and that made it more fun. It's less stress and less worry. The Internet adds a lot of options with games, but there are new issues to worry about too.
When I present this project to the client, my aim is to see smiling faces... not those wondering about how to word the privacy policy or other possible risks.
I'm disappointed though, because GameSalad was near-perfect for this project.
Are you saying that you receive data like "How much a GS apps as a whole are used and on what devices?" And then what do you mean by "how"?
It just seems to be a rather vague answer, is it possible for you to give us a bit more info on what is actually recorded?
Thanks
- Thomas
If they told you or the public it automatics insures people that GS is tracking your app, there benifit is to keep it hidden in the terms and conditions. Otherwise who would want to use a product that has access to YOUR users info and contacts and how many downloads YOUR has received, and what was the most popular device YOUR game is playing on. See people will start to get concern and before you know everyone is asking questions. So its best they try to avoid the convo all together. (Not saying they do any of the mentioned above but since they dont give detail you can just assume that they also track how many of us have downloaded ANGRY BIRDS so they know who not to give benifits to)
- Thomas
You and Chakku seem to having a conversation with me that I have not taken part in ?
=P~
His name is Robert Paulson!
Here's some shtuff about it from the end of January:
http://blog.silktide.com/2013/01/the-stupid-cookie-law-is-dead-at-last/
- Q
My opinion is, unless completely unfeasible, to stick with GameSalad.
Chakku
I'm not a privacy expert, but I'm pretty sure complaining on public forums, using computers, talking on cell phones, surfing the internet, running a website, paying for things with credit cards, earning an income, owning a home, driving a car and walking around in public are all things that are tracked pretty extensively by someone these days.
Out of all those things "anonymous data tracking from the software tool that I use to make iPhone games" is pretty low on my list of 'privacy invasion' offenses...
Breathe, people... it's the 21st century.
- Thomas
I have a non-game project I was getting ready to start building for a customer and this just will not fly... Not sure what I will be doing for this one???
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First and foremost, it would give us a better understanding of what platforms to target.
Then it might quell all the worries about the data being collected. If it starts to benefit us, there will be less of a reason to complain.
That said, some people will still be against it, but people like me who are on the fence would no longer see it as an issue.
Not trying to feed the fire @saladstraightshooter I think I'm more skeptical that it would even be possible to share an specific data about individual games.
- Thomas