@Wboko said:
If builders built buildings the way the GS team wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along wound destroy civilization.
quote by Gerald Weinberg with a Wboko twist!
Ive been saying this since day 1. ive tried using every metaphor in the book. Cars and Houses. Get the concrete poured and hardened before you start even thinking about the walls much-less the roof and were to hang the draps. Oh and no... not is not the time to be looking at a jacuzzi. And why did you spend your paycheck on a tinting the windshield of your car. When you havent even replaced the one with all the cracks in it. And why would you buy Spinners for your tires when the tires are bald and need replaced. And why do I see fuzzy dice in your shopping cart. You dont even have a rear-view mirror to hang them on yet.
@Ij10281 said:
I want to thank Gamesalad... Since I havent been able to monetize my Android games due, to being a Windows user I have started to learn how to code. When life gives you lemons make lemonade!!! Everything aside thanks GS.
Edit:Lemons*
And when you have lemonade and things get worse find someone with Vodka!
@FINNBOGG so I suppose every game you put out, every thing you do in life is perfect the first time? You must have the biggest ladder on the planet to get onto that high horse your sitting on.
@SingleSparq said:
FINNBOGG so I suppose every game you put out, every thing you do in life is perfect the first time? You must have the biggest ladder on the planet to get onto that high horse your sitting on.
@FINNBOGG I'm not sure anyone has ever consciously decided to do anything the wrong way. Unless that is they are planning to fail. We do the things right which we know how to do, then when we don't know how... mistakes happen, then we learn from mistakes.
Any failure you learn from by proxy becomes a success. Just ask Edison. He said his thousands of failed attempts to make the light bulb each contributed to his success of making it.
I agree making mistakes is always a good thing to learn from. But when is GS gonna learn any lessons?
Service with a few bugs...... add features.... new features causes more bugs. Instead of stopping and fixing what needs fixing. you split man power in half..... you leav half behind to fix issues while the other half works on future features for later release. Then before the first half can fix any issues. You drop a new feature out there that just rips down anything the first half had workd on. Plus you've just created more bugs and issues.
Lets look at this like I look at my kids when they want dessert.
GS = Kids
Bugs = Plate of food.
New Feature to work on and Release = Dessert.
Kids...... finish your plate....... then you can have dessert.
So learn from past lessons and fix your issues before you put so much time into something that might not work with your current mess in the first place.
So......... Do things right the first time. Or at least think logically, before you act. Or..... as the old saying goes..... Look before you Leap. or..... Any good structure needs a strong foundation. or Half Ass is alway half done. or Work smarter not Harder. last but not least....... Get your ducks in a row.
@FINNBOGG said:
I agree making mistakes is always a good thing to learn from. But when is GS gonna learn any lessons?
Service with a few bugs...... add features.... new features causes more bugs. Instead of stopping and fixing what needs fixing. you split man power in half..... you leav half behind to fix issues while the other half works on future features for later release. Then before the first half can fix any issues. You drop a new feature out there that just rips down anything the first half had workd on. Plus you've just created more bugs and issues.
Lets look at this like I look at my kids when they want dessert.
GS = Kids
Bugs = Plate of food.
New Feature to work on and Release = Dessert.
Kids...... finish your plate....... then you can have dessert.
So learn from past lessons and fix your issues before you put so much time into something that might not work with your current mess in the first place.
So......... Do things right the first time. Or at least think logically, before you act. Or..... as the old saying goes..... Look before you Leap. or..... Any good structure needs a strong foundation. or Half Ass is alway half done. or Work smarter not Harder. last but not least....... Get your ducks in a row.
Since you like saying's so much here's one:
It's always easier to tell someone how to drive from the backseat
nope.. that doesnt work in this situation. If it did. I died before I could say anything. Cant backseat drive if you already crashed.
PhilipCCEncounter Bay, South AustraliaMemberPosts: 1,390
@FINNBOGG and SingleSparq. Your sniping at each other is what makes reading some of these posts worthwhile. A chuckle a day keeps the boredom away. Maybe there should be a post exclusively for you guys. It would be the first one read each day by many of us.
@PhilipCC said:
FINNBOGG and SingleSparq. Your sniping at each other is what makes reading some of these posts worthwhile. A chuckle a day keeps the boredom away. Maybe there should be a post exclusively for you guys. It would be the first one read each day by many of us.
I'm with @Finnbogg. All you Game Salad apologists, who defend the bugginess of Game Salad are NOT being helpful. I just don't understand why there are Pro users on here saying, "Come on guys, surely all your games have easy-to-find bugs when you release!? Surely your games are busted when you put them out, and you slowly fix them up over time, as users give you low star ratings and bad mouth your games, surely?!?"
NO. NO, that is NOT how I make games.
I bug test them to extremity. I test them with multiple users on multiple devices. And I put them out without any known issues. Because I don't want to have to update my apps to fix things I could have found fairly easily. Because I don't want users to get a sub-standard product.
We need stable builds 99% of the time, without problems that prevent shipping. I honestly find that Game Salad - over the past few years - has spent months and months and months with bugs that have prevented me from shipping, whether it's the sound stuttering bug that was there for about 6 months, or the new "white tinted images" that seems to have hung around for several months.
WHY DO USERS HERE WANT TO SUPPORT AN ONGOING ACCEPTANCE OF SUB-STANDARD GAME SALAD VERSIONS?
Please stop defending the bugs.
Yes, Nightly builds can have some issues, so long as there is a pristine stable build available. That's what Nightly builds are for. But known bugs need to them be addressed and followed by another rapidly released Nightly build.
Game Salad need solid test cases that every release goes through to find any fairly-easy-to-find bugs and issues. They need a few test projects that make solid use of tables, all sorts of expressions and formulas, all different elements of tiled textures, stretched textures, different rendering modes (overlay, screen, etc), and all the behaviours. And they then need to test output from these game projects on a variety of devices, BEFORE releasing that build. For stable builds, this needs to be done even 10x more so.
That is the service they should be providing to use. Make a game development toolkit, and release stable, bug-free builds to us.
ANY DEFENSES OF GAME SALAD NOT DELIVERING THIS TO US IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, so please stop doing it.
I keep getting an error with Tizen IDE whenever I try and sign my app. is this a problem related to GameSalad, Tizen, or both? It keeps saying I have an 'invalid password' but the password in the Windows>Preferences> Tizen SDK> Security Profiles is correct.
@Hymloe said:
I'm with Finnbogg. All you Game Salad apologists, who defend the bugginess of Game Salad are NOT being helpful. I just don't understand why there are Pro users on here saying, "Come on guys, surely all your games have easy-to-find bugs when you release!? Surely your games are busted when you put them out, and you slowly fix them up over time, as users give you low star ratings and bad mouth your games, surely?!?"
NO. NO, that is NOT how I make games.
I bug test them to extremity. I test them with multiple users on multiple devices. And I put them out without any known issues. Because I don't want to have to update my apps to fix things I could have found fairly easily. Because I don't want users to get a sub-standard product.
We need stable builds 99% of the time, without problems that prevent shipping. I honestly find that Game Salad - over the past few years - has spent months and months and months with bugs that have prevented me from shipping, whether it's the sound stuttering bug that was there for about 6 months, or the new "white tinted images" that seems to have hung around for several months.
WHY DO USERS HERE WANT TO SUPPORT AN ONGOING ACCEPTANCE OF SUB-STANDARD GAME SALAD VERSIONS?
Please stop defending the bugs.
Yes, Nightly builds can have some issues, so long as there is a pristine stable build available. That's what Nightly builds are for. But known bugs need to them be addressed and followed by another rapidly released Nightly build.
Game Salad need solid test cases that every release goes through to find any fairly-easy-to-find bugs and issues. They need a few test projects that make solid use of tables, all sorts of expressions and formulas, all different elements of tiled textures, stretched textures, different rendering modes (overlay, screen, etc), and all the behaviours. And they then need to test output from these game projects on a variety of devices, BEFORE releasing that build. For stable builds, this needs to be done even 10x more so.
That is the service they should be providing to use. Make a game development toolkit, and release stable, bug-free builds to us.
ANY DEFENSES OF GAME SALAD NOT DELIVERING THIS TO US IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, so please stop doing it.
Nobody is defending bugs. But to expect a perfect release is unrealistic and naive. To insult hardworking individuals with images of them being kicked in the face or 'motivational videos' they should watch daily is rude, unprofessional and - guess what - it servers no purpose whatsoever other than to make themselves feel somehow superior.
Like if they were in charge all would be roses and sunshine - I highly doubt it.
The fact of the matter is you nor I know anything of what day to day difficulties GS faces developing a software system that creates games. If we did we be doing it ourselves and not be here. So I give no apologies for GS only the benefit of the doubt to GS staff who have no special powers other than the amount of hours that they can put in to give us what we all want - which spreads a vast range depending who's asking for what.
But if all people do is come on here and rant about people not doing their jobs from the sidelines of nowhere-ville like they have all the answers, then yes, I have an issue with that. Negativity breeds like a virus.
Your unhappy with how long its taking or of the bugs in a release - thats your right. You want to complain - that is also your right. But I don't think it serves the purpose you think it does. For the more ranting that occurs the more it becomes white noise to those you want to listen. Then they start to ignore and frequent the forums less no longer wanting to engage with the community in fear of being 'harassed' for lack of this or not doing that. I don't think that benefits us do you?
If there is an issue submit bug report. If you want to complain about how things are progressing, do so but in a professional manner instead of the triad of a spoiled child (not directed at you just in general). It's not so hard if you try. I think we can achieve much more with a little civility and calm as there are other more important things in life to worry about than this.
I especially have a problem to those who rarely give back to the community (just look back on some peoples discussions and count how much is constant negativity vs helping anyone). Maybe there is no reason they should give back and only use the forum for their gain of knowledge from others and to complain - that is their choice but I'm not going to give them any sympathy with their complaints based on that choice.
It's easier to criticize than to do better - Swiss Proverb
I give a huge thanks to @SingleSparq for saying that. What is the point of criticizing people who do good things @Hymloe? It doesn't make sense to me. Have you ever heard that most failures, and by that I'm definitely not calling GameSalad a failure at all, become very successful people?! Think of Michael Jordan, he missed dozens of shots but then sooner while gaining practice he became a basketball prodigy in my book; and he certainly achieved his goal with the help of his supporters, which you are not being.
That is fine by me, you have your right to feel angry, upset, or possibly annoyed with the bugs in the software. You also have your right to not enjoy or support GameSalad either. Just think before you do something, now I don't know how GameSalad employees think about your comments. They may not care at all, but once the word flows throughout the internet it spreads like a cancer. And that cancer will affect our community, which we call GameSalad, by a lot.
@Hymloe said:
Whatever the case, people would not express their (valid) feelings in that way, were the causes of frustration and dissatisfaction not there.
And yet others are perfectly able to remain civil about the situation.
It's not like everyone's blind and can't see the problems or isn't frustrated about it.
It's just that some seem to think that throwing the toys out the pram will make a difference.
Im just tired of " new features" being the first line of defense to fixing problems.
I know they are actually heading in the right direction so far. By re writing the old code and making it more stable. This is all good.
Before any of us create a Topic in this forum that has the premise of asking for a new feature..... Ask yourself this. Is the current build stable? If the answer is no. STOP right there and dont even ask for a new feature. They have a big enough list as it is so far.
Stability.......Stability........Stabilty......... Lets see a hard concrete foundation for once. and then you guys can start deciding what color drapes the kitchen is gonna have.
Imagine we are all on the same island with Tom Hanks in that "Castaway" movie.
He is out there trying to come up with all the tools and parts needed for this raft. And we all cant wait till its ready to go so we can get off the island. And some of you are asking him where the microwave is gonna go? While he is drilling a hole in a coconut with a rock, so he has a way to collect water for drinking.
SHUT UPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!
If the current build has internal problems that are causing many apps to be declines by apple...... then a custom loading wheel is not what you should be wanting to be focused on atm. If .pngs with alpha have been fine fore the last 2-3 years and now all of a sudden everyones trying to come up with workarounds just prevent this from wasting mroe development time......... then cross platform can hold on a week. Priorities just seem to be in shambles.
But this is all just MO. And if my 299.00 cant buy me a semi stable "beta" build to use. Then it will at least earn me the right to vent about it on here.
I completely agree with you Finnbogg on a great many points.
I just personally find the negativity a touch unhealthy.
And yep, I'd love for some people to 'shut up' about adding new features when the old ones need fixing. All for that!
But at the same, I tend to skim read at best comments by a few people on here because they're just repeating the same old same old with a side helping of vitriol and vent.
It becomes background noise to many and doesn't actually help!
It would be so much better if we had a forward facing bug database and some sort of system for suggesting and voting for future features. People are a lot calmer when they are informed and can contribute. I know I have mentioned this a few times but I think it is worth repeating.
But if they don't throw out the hint of new features no one would wastes $299 for sip of the GS KoolAid and then the GS team would not have the money to keep the lights on.... Oh wow, Loading wheel!
As a developer that can write code, GS is just lost focus and needs a REAL Project Manager to get them back on track. A good developer has no need to try and play Project Manager!
Just waiting till my GS Pro runs out and I will be gone!
Also, I agree with @FINNBOGG and Shut the hell up if.... You are not Pro, have only been here for a few months with less then a 100 post, or are making a living selling the GS Koolaid!
Comments
Ive been saying this since day 1. ive tried using every metaphor in the book. Cars and Houses. Get the concrete poured and hardened before you start even thinking about the walls much-less the roof and were to hang the draps. Oh and no... not is not the time to be looking at a jacuzzi. And why did you spend your paycheck on a tinting the windshield of your car. When you havent even replaced the one with all the cracks in it. And why would you buy Spinners for your tires when the tires are bald and need replaced. And why do I see fuzzy dice in your shopping cart. You dont even have a rear-view mirror to hang them on yet.
PRIORITIES PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NICE!!!
And when you have lemonade and things get worse find someone with Vodka!
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
It's very nice to see that there is persistent accomplishment. Thank you very much for the update! Good luck and don't stress.
This video should be watched by all GS employees each morning before work.
@FINNBOGG so I suppose every game you put out, every thing you do in life is perfect the first time? You must have the biggest ladder on the planet to get onto that high horse your sitting on.
This
@FINNBOGG I'm not sure anyone has ever consciously decided to do anything the wrong way. Unless that is they are planning to fail. We do the things right which we know how to do, then when we don't know how... mistakes happen, then we learn from mistakes.
Any failure you learn from by proxy becomes a success. Just ask Edison. He said his thousands of failed attempts to make the light bulb each contributed to his success of making it.
Guru Video Channel | Lost Oasis Games | FRYING BACON STUDIOS
I agree making mistakes is always a good thing to learn from. But when is GS gonna learn any lessons?
Service with a few bugs...... add features.... new features causes more bugs. Instead of stopping and fixing what needs fixing. you split man power in half..... you leav half behind to fix issues while the other half works on future features for later release. Then before the first half can fix any issues. You drop a new feature out there that just rips down anything the first half had workd on. Plus you've just created more bugs and issues.
Lets look at this like I look at my kids when they want dessert.
GS = Kids
Bugs = Plate of food.
New Feature to work on and Release = Dessert.
Kids...... finish your plate....... then you can have dessert.
So learn from past lessons and fix your issues before you put so much time into something that might not work with your current mess in the first place.
So......... Do things right the first time. Or at least think logically, before you act. Or..... as the old saying goes..... Look before you Leap. or..... Any good structure needs a strong foundation. or Half Ass is alway half done. or Work smarter not Harder. last but not least....... Get your ducks in a row.
Since you like saying's so much here's one:
It's always easier to tell someone how to drive from the backseat
Interpret that as you wish.
nope.. that doesnt work in this situation. If it did. I died before I could say anything. Cant backseat drive if you already crashed.
@FINNBOGG and SingleSparq. Your sniping at each other is what makes reading some of these posts worthwhile. A chuckle a day keeps the boredom away. Maybe there should be a post exclusively for you guys. It would be the first one read each day by many of us.
At least mine are short.
NICE, but I think that was a few months back....LOL
When will we see new RC?
Can you please update the Windows version like it looks almost the same as on a Mac? That would make things alot easier! Please! Can you do it?!
I'm with @Finnbogg. All you Game Salad apologists, who defend the bugginess of Game Salad are NOT being helpful. I just don't understand why there are Pro users on here saying, "Come on guys, surely all your games have easy-to-find bugs when you release!? Surely your games are busted when you put them out, and you slowly fix them up over time, as users give you low star ratings and bad mouth your games, surely?!?"
NO. NO, that is NOT how I make games.
I bug test them to extremity. I test them with multiple users on multiple devices. And I put them out without any known issues. Because I don't want to have to update my apps to fix things I could have found fairly easily. Because I don't want users to get a sub-standard product.
We need stable builds 99% of the time, without problems that prevent shipping. I honestly find that Game Salad - over the past few years - has spent months and months and months with bugs that have prevented me from shipping, whether it's the sound stuttering bug that was there for about 6 months, or the new "white tinted images" that seems to have hung around for several months.
WHY DO USERS HERE WANT TO SUPPORT AN ONGOING ACCEPTANCE OF SUB-STANDARD GAME SALAD VERSIONS?
Please stop defending the bugs.
Yes, Nightly builds can have some issues, so long as there is a pristine stable build available. That's what Nightly builds are for. But known bugs need to them be addressed and followed by another rapidly released Nightly build.
Game Salad need solid test cases that every release goes through to find any fairly-easy-to-find bugs and issues. They need a few test projects that make solid use of tables, all sorts of expressions and formulas, all different elements of tiled textures, stretched textures, different rendering modes (overlay, screen, etc), and all the behaviours. And they then need to test output from these game projects on a variety of devices, BEFORE releasing that build. For stable builds, this needs to be done even 10x more so.
That is the service they should be providing to use. Make a game development toolkit, and release stable, bug-free builds to us.
ANY DEFENSES OF GAME SALAD NOT DELIVERING THIS TO US IS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE, so please stop doing it.
I keep getting an error with Tizen IDE whenever I try and sign my app. is this a problem related to GameSalad, Tizen, or both? It keeps saying I have an 'invalid password' but the password in the Windows>Preferences> Tizen SDK> Security Profiles is correct.![:\](http://forums.gamesalad.com/plugins/emojiextender/emoji/twitter/confused.png ":\")
@CodeWizard CodeWizard has now been with GS for a year now!!! Thanks for the great work CodeWizard!
Good work @CodeWizard, definitely a positive force.
And a thanks again to @BlackCloakGS who always seems to be toiling away on getting everything working.
Nobody is defending bugs. But to expect a perfect release is unrealistic and naive. To insult hardworking individuals with images of them being kicked in the face or 'motivational videos' they should watch daily is rude, unprofessional and - guess what - it servers no purpose whatsoever other than to make themselves feel somehow superior.
Like if they were in charge all would be roses and sunshine - I highly doubt it.
The fact of the matter is you nor I know anything of what day to day difficulties GS faces developing a software system that creates games. If we did we be doing it ourselves and not be here. So I give no apologies for GS only the benefit of the doubt to GS staff who have no special powers other than the amount of hours that they can put in to give us what we all want - which spreads a vast range depending who's asking for what.
But if all people do is come on here and rant about people not doing their jobs from the sidelines of nowhere-ville like they have all the answers, then yes, I have an issue with that. Negativity breeds like a virus.
Your unhappy with how long its taking or of the bugs in a release - thats your right. You want to complain - that is also your right. But I don't think it serves the purpose you think it does. For the more ranting that occurs the more it becomes white noise to those you want to listen. Then they start to ignore and frequent the forums less no longer wanting to engage with the community in fear of being 'harassed' for lack of this or not doing that. I don't think that benefits us do you?
If there is an issue submit bug report. If you want to complain about how things are progressing, do so but in a professional manner instead of the triad of a spoiled child (not directed at you just in general). It's not so hard if you try. I think we can achieve much more with a little civility and calm as there are other more important things in life to worry about than this.
I especially have a problem to those who rarely give back to the community (just look back on some peoples discussions and count how much is constant negativity vs helping anyone). Maybe there is no reason they should give back and only use the forum for their gain of knowledge from others and to complain - that is their choice but I'm not going to give them any sympathy with their complaints based on that choice.
It's easier to criticize than to do better - Swiss Proverb
And thats all I'll say about that.
I give a huge thanks to @SingleSparq for saying that. What is the point of criticizing people who do good things @Hymloe? It doesn't make sense to me. Have you ever heard that most failures, and by that I'm definitely not calling GameSalad a failure at all, become very successful people?! Think of Michael Jordan, he missed dozens of shots but then sooner while gaining practice he became a basketball prodigy in my book; and he certainly achieved his goal with the help of his supporters, which you are not being.
That is fine by me, you have your right to feel angry, upset, or possibly annoyed with the bugs in the software. You also have your right to not enjoy or support GameSalad either. Just think before you do something, now I don't know how GameSalad employees think about your comments. They may not care at all, but once the word flows throughout the internet it spreads like a cancer. And that cancer will affect our community, which we call GameSalad, by a lot.
Whatever the case, people would not express their (valid) feelings in that way, were the causes of frustration and dissatisfaction not there.
And yet others are perfectly able to remain civil about the situation.
It's not like everyone's blind and can't see the problems or isn't frustrated about it.
It's just that some seem to think that throwing the toys out the pram will make a difference.
It's a choice which way you want to handle it.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Can't we all just play Snowflake and get along?
Im just tired of " new features" being the first line of defense to fixing problems.
I know they are actually heading in the right direction so far. By re writing the old code and making it more stable. This is all good.
Before any of us create a Topic in this forum that has the premise of asking for a new feature..... Ask yourself this. Is the current build stable? If the answer is no. STOP right there and dont even ask for a new feature. They have a big enough list as it is so far.
Stability.......Stability........Stabilty......... Lets see a hard concrete foundation for once. and then you guys can start deciding what color drapes the kitchen is gonna have.
Imagine we are all on the same island with Tom Hanks in that "Castaway" movie.
He is out there trying to come up with all the tools and parts needed for this raft. And we all cant wait till its ready to go so we can get off the island. And some of you are asking him where the microwave is gonna go? While he is drilling a hole in a coconut with a rock, so he has a way to collect water for drinking.
SHUT UPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!
If the current build has internal problems that are causing many apps to be declines by apple...... then a custom loading wheel is not what you should be wanting to be focused on atm. If .pngs with alpha have been fine fore the last 2-3 years and now all of a sudden everyones trying to come up with workarounds just prevent this from wasting mroe development time......... then cross platform can hold on a week. Priorities just seem to be in shambles.
But this is all just MO. And if my 299.00 cant buy me a semi stable "beta" build to use. Then it will at least earn me the right to vent about it on here.
I completely agree with you Finnbogg on a great many points.
I just personally find the negativity a touch unhealthy.
And yep, I'd love for some people to 'shut up' about adding new features when the old ones need fixing. All for that!
But at the same, I tend to skim read at best comments by a few people on here because they're just repeating the same old same old with a side helping of vitriol and vent.
It becomes background noise to many and doesn't actually help!
IMO of course.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
It would be so much better if we had a forward facing bug database and some sort of system for suggesting and voting for future features. People are a lot calmer when they are informed and can contribute. I know I have mentioned this a few times but I think it is worth repeating.
Universal Binary Template - Universal Binary Template Instructions Rev 4 (Short) - Custom Score Display Template
But if they don't throw out the hint of new features no one would wastes $299 for sip of the GS KoolAid and then the GS team would not have the money to keep the lights on.... Oh wow, Loading wheel!
As a developer that can write code, GS is just lost focus and needs a REAL Project Manager to get them back on track. A good developer has no need to try and play Project Manager!
Just waiting till my GS Pro runs out and I will be gone!
Also, I agree with @FINNBOGG and Shut the hell up if.... You are not Pro, have only been here for a few months with less then a 100 post, or are making a living selling the GS Koolaid!
Plus, see no input from the GS team again...
I am done with this post... Good Luck!
Wboko