I'm excited too, and glad to hear there will be two products. It's only a guess but I'd expect like any other company, think Adobe, that each product will be priced/sold as individual items. Perhaps if they are complementary and support each other in some way there would be some bundle like Creative Cloud but only time will tell.
@Chunkypixels said:
Hmmmm... Ok... So I might as well be the one to break the euphoria...
So if GameSalad already struggles to maintain and update just one engine in a timely fashion, hows it going to be when they have 2 to support?
I was all for, and really looking forward to a much needed update of the GameSalad creator, but I'm not sure this sounds like the great idea everyone else seems to think. I just don't know... Seems like it could be another of GameSalads wild goose chases that ends up having an overall negative impact.
So does that mean there is no cross platform creator/interface update for the current engine?
Has the development of a second engine been the reason for slow/buggy updates to the current engine?
I'm not sure... But this doesn't sound like the cross platform solution to GameSalad that we've been promised for over a year now... I guess I'll have to wait and see... But it's popping up red flags for me...
So it's not actually an update/overhaul to the current engine... It's an entirely new one? Are GameSalad files going to be compatible with it? If not, then like I said, it means double the upkeep to keep the two engines existing... And if that's not the case, and GS files can be used, or converted, then why even bother keeping both engines... Why not just phase out the old engine if the new one is much better?
Don't get me wrong... If the new engine is much better, then I'll definately look at using it... but it just doesn't seem like there's been complete honesty on what the Cross Platform Creator was going to be... and it seems a strange decision to have 2 engines to support. It's giving me slight jitters in the vein of GS Direct, GS Accelerator and the GS LUA Free.
Hopefully this isn't one of those...
Also, weren't screenshots of the Cross Platform Creator promised for before the end of the year? I'm not sure a banner of the logo really counts
Change is never easy. You guys wanted powerful software well this is it. Trust me on that. This is nothing like GS LUA free as that was never put out to test. As has been said a group of users is already deeply involved in debugging and helping shape the direction of this software. This is very much a reality and not a fantasy.
As GS has stated, they continue to update the creator software and move forward with it. Don't get all worked up about what this will cost et... That's way down the road. Remain calm and carry on and enjoy the thoughts of having a very, very, very powerful game development tool.
I can understand the frustration some might have with the announcement of a new SDK. I would love for the current GS to have a lot of things changed myself. But trying to overhaul functions that many objects rely on tends to cause bugs.
Sometimes starting from scratch is easier and faster than trying to overhaul a program. Sure we might get a cool new features here and there with the current creator, but what about the issues that have been around for years.
~Going back and forth to edit actors(time consuming).
~A graphics engine that is not quite optimal.
~Organizing images, or not having the option to use sprite sheets. If anyone has ever done a lot of animations knows sprite sheets will save time, time, time.
~etc.
I have no idea what new features this SDK will have, but I assume it will an improvement on what the current creator has.
No one has forced me to pay for pro. I knew the limitations with GS when I bought it. I have looked at other drag and drop programs. They all have issues. I believe we have the best community, and the GS team keeps us up to date.
Hmmm I have to say i've got a lot of concerns, all this time being promised things that will be added to GS Creator when it looks like its been going into another product entirely, I just hope that Pros get access to both otherwise I don't think I will be renewing.
Please prove me wrong, as GS is a great tool.
I'm hugely excited for this. I can only assume that one Pro license will cover both products. If, as they said in the meetup, they're going to maintain GameSalad only as far as is necessary to keep it up to date with device changes etc., I don't see it as likely that they'll expect people to pay a separate Pro license. Brave move if they do
As for maintaining two different products, there are two things to consider. Firstly, they'll only be actively working on one. They'll be effectively drawing a line under GameSalad, and focusing on Graphene. So their attention won't be all that split. Secondly, GameSalad is not optimally written. There are a lot of things that simply cannot be done to improve GameSalad with the current codebase, and lots of features people keep asking for that it's prohibitively difficult to add to GameSalad, but are comparatively very easy to add to a new product.
Ultimately, the cross platform creator was always going to be a complete rewrite from the ground up. It's going to be a very different beast, quite clearly, and so a different branding is entirely appropriate.
If they expect us to pay $300 for GS as well as $300 for Graphene, just to keep our old games updated, then I'll understand any anger. As it is, we're getting exactly what we've asked for.
One thing why this announcement really scares me. Is that I have a dream, to release my big Gamesalad game on PC, OUYA, Amazon Fire TV and this puts this dream in danger.
Maybe it doesnt. Keep in mind I understand the next major relase of GS wont be until Q1 of 2015...I assume around the time 64 support will be included. Maybe even the exe and multiplayer stuff as well as other things being finally tuned to most everyones liking. Then with the new Graphene SDK we get a whole new toy to play with. Everyone at the gates....ready to run with it.
Braydon_SFXMember, Sous Chef, PRO, Bowlboy SidekickPosts: 9,271
edited December 2014
Wow. I'm shocked so many are hesitant of this new tool. We've been asking, and at times, demanding the GS team start kicking it up a notch and producing a more professional tool. From what I've just seen, it seems that they are creating everything we've been wanting, yet now we're complaining?
This tool seems to be much more professional, allowing us to have a new user interface, native plugin support and I'm sure other features we've been wanting for years! Why everyone is a little wary I'm not sure. Don't get me wrong, I understand some questions that were brought up, especially the price of Graphene and if GS Pro will carry over. There are some questions I'd like answered, too, but right now I'm just so happy with this announcement I think seeking answers to those questions should come later.
After thinking about it, I think it makes complete sense for the Cross Platform Creator to be separate from GameSalad; it has to be. GameSalad was initially written on a bad codebase. In order to create an extremely professional tool, the team would have needed to start from the ground up.
I'm just speaking my opinion. Many of you have very valid questions. From the previews we've seen, I just expected everyone to be cheering the GS Team forward. I think that's what we should do.
@imGua said:
One thing why this announcement really scares me. Is that I have a dream, to release my big Gamesalad game on PC, OUYA, Amazon Fire TV and this puts this dream in danger.
I highly doubt you'll ever see GameSalad support OUYA. The market is tiny and it would be a waste of resources to shoehorn support in there. Amazon Fire TV also seems very unlikely. They've support Kindle Fire for ages, and they seem to have very close ties to Amazon. If Fire TV support was coming I'd expect it to have come by now. And as someone who owns a Fire TV (and loves it)... it's not a games machine. I'd be curious how many people actually use it for games. I'm betting not many.
Native Windows support, however, they've semi-promised in the past, so that one seems realistic.
Grapheme looks and sounds amazing, a great improvement from the current GS creator, i don't think anyone disagrees with that. The concern i see people having would be having to maintain their old projects in the old creator which will become what the windows creator is now ( slow to update, left behind etc.). Another thing would be the price, it is pretty much guaranteed to go up by at least $200 a year, so $500 a year for access to both creators.
I say again, graphene looks and sounds amazing, and will be working with it in the future.
GameSalad is what it is ... and I love it ... I always design and work on games I can work on and finish now! I don't start a game hoping they introduce a new feature as my game relies on that. I'm happy to maintain any game I currently have with GameSalad and work on latter titles with Graphene! The reality is, I don't really update my existing games too much, I definitely would if any were to get any real attention mind you.
Graphene promises so much and its something to be very stoked about. Native plugin support! Before you know it we will have access to camera, microphone, about anything you can think of! We'll have joints from the off ... Oh my!!!! A powerful engine that has a proven track record that has created hits! The only real negative is there will be a learning curve, it will not be as simple as GameSalad and as that is engrained within me, I'm sure I will be frustrated lots .... But once I learn how to unearth that power and all those features, it will be awesome!
The price is nothing really and a price point we don't actually know yet! People have estimated $500 for access to both creators! With the potential you can make back, thats nothing in reality! every year I have created games, I have easily made back and dev fees including game creation software! And even if i didn't that wouldn't bother me as I'm doing what my dream was from a young age, its a small price to pay for that.
Lastly, no one will force you to use Graphene! The choice is yours, if you want to use it, you pay, if not, you don't. I'm sure GameSalad will slow but maybe they've pushed it to where they think they can on the existing code base and as a business, maybe it just doesn't make sense anymore!
Remember Codewizard knows the Graphene engine very, very well ... With him steering the ship, we're sailing very nicely! Good work GS team and have a merry Christmas everyone!
If Graphene is going to be better than GS Creator. Then why would people keep using GS Creator? You " KNOW " there will be a day when GS Creator users are gonna whine about how Graphene support and features are getting more attention than GS Creator and accuse you of Leaving GS Creator on the side of the road. You "KNOW" people are gonna ask why GS Creator cant have "that cool feature" that Graphene has. You " KNOW " there is gonna come a day when Graphene feature releases are deadlined and you are forced to pull GS Creator assets over the Graphene " temporarily ".
I may be a Black Sheep of sorts. But I speak my mind and Im sorry to play devils advocate. But you "KNOW" this is gonna happen.
Its all nice and daisy to say. "Im excited", "I cant wait". But I think its more constructive to have reservations towards all the glamour and shineys and pazzaz.
To be honest, as a former pro member (and probably going to renew that soon), I'm pretty happy they have been devoting resources to this. Gamesalad has a very visible ceiling, and the tool is pretty good for doing what it does right now.
I can understand the frustration and can relate to the slow crawl of updates, but things like extension support and coding support will make this a more community-driven experience. If GS had that kind of extension/plug-in environment, I think we would have seen some pretty amazing things by now.
I'm feeling a bit mixed on this. On one hand, this looks like a nice engine. On the other splitting resources seems to be a bad idea. I mean GS is still "Beta" software.
However, given that this has already been the case, and GS is still getting updates, I hope it's safe to assume that this won't have a major impact into the GS creators updates for the time being.
Plug-in support and powferul coding features sounds excellent so consider me intrigued. Hoping too see more details soon.
I really want to know the coding language we should use to code the plugins so I could spend all winter learning that language when the sdk is ready for the release
I doubt that, it is not flexible enough and I think it is the main reason for the rewrite.
@Fajlajp said:
I really want to know the coding language we should use to code the plugins so I could spend all winter learning that language when the sdk is ready for the release
Yes I would like to know this too @CodeWizard taking a guess probably C++ or C#.
Comments
Same here... if it has all the features that have been missing from GS and is more powerful. Sounds very cool!
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I'm excited too, and glad to hear there will be two products. It's only a guess but I'd expect like any other company, think Adobe, that each product will be priced/sold as individual items. Perhaps if they are complementary and support each other in some way there would be some bundle like Creative Cloud but only time will tell.
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Are the DBA lads involved in this? If they are then great, if not, I'm sure they'll support it with templates and possibly a conversion tool.
@Chunkypixels Here's a screenshot from the new tool for you to take a look at:
Enjoy!
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Oh... the sweet memories.
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Graphene SDK will require PRO PRO, $500 a year which will give you access to regular gs pro as well.
This is just a guess.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
Change is never easy. You guys wanted powerful software well this is it. Trust me on that. This is nothing like GS LUA free as that was never put out to test. As has been said a group of users is already deeply involved in debugging and helping shape the direction of this software. This is very much a reality and not a fantasy.
As GS has stated, they continue to update the creator software and move forward with it. Don't get all worked up about what this will cost et... That's way down the road. Remain calm and carry on and enjoy the thoughts of having a very, very, very powerful game development tool.
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Sounds promising!!
@CodeWizard, love the grid, rulers, and zoom shown in the screen shot!
http://jamie-cross.net/posts/ ✮ Udemy: Introduction to Mobile Games Development ✮ Learn Mobile Game Development in One Day Using Gamesalad ✮ My Patreon Page
I can understand the frustration some might have with the announcement of a new SDK. I would love for the current GS to have a lot of things changed myself. But trying to overhaul functions that many objects rely on tends to cause bugs.
Sometimes starting from scratch is easier and faster than trying to overhaul a program. Sure we might get a cool new features here and there with the current creator, but what about the issues that have been around for years.
~Going back and forth to edit actors(time consuming).
~A graphics engine that is not quite optimal.
~Organizing images, or not having the option to use sprite sheets. If anyone has ever done a lot of animations knows sprite sheets will save time, time, time.
~etc.
I have no idea what new features this SDK will have, but I assume it will an improvement on what the current creator has.
No one has forced me to pay for pro. I knew the limitations with GS when I bought it. I have looked at other drag and drop programs. They all have issues. I believe we have the best community, and the GS team keeps us up to date.
I look forward to the change!!
I ramble on. But I am very excited about this!!
I can't wait
please hurry!
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Hmmm I have to say i've got a lot of concerns, all this time being promised things that will be added to GS Creator when it looks like its been going into another product entirely, I just hope that Pros get access to both otherwise I don't think I will be renewing.
Please prove me wrong, as GS is a great tool.
Exciting news. Kind of agree with some of the comments above though. GameSalad is still beta. Do us a favor and finsh'er up.
Im asumming Grapene will be a complete 64bit supported engine. That does sound sweet. Please make the market places seperate also.
Please dont merge the forums either.
Regardless of how GS decides to do things, I DO look forward to this.
Also...any hint to what "platforms" will be "crossed"?
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I'm hugely excited for this. I can only assume that one Pro license will cover both products. If, as they said in the meetup, they're going to maintain GameSalad only as far as is necessary to keep it up to date with device changes etc., I don't see it as likely that they'll expect people to pay a separate Pro license. Brave move if they do
As for maintaining two different products, there are two things to consider. Firstly, they'll only be actively working on one. They'll be effectively drawing a line under GameSalad, and focusing on Graphene. So their attention won't be all that split. Secondly, GameSalad is not optimally written. There are a lot of things that simply cannot be done to improve GameSalad with the current codebase, and lots of features people keep asking for that it's prohibitively difficult to add to GameSalad, but are comparatively very easy to add to a new product.
Ultimately, the cross platform creator was always going to be a complete rewrite from the ground up. It's going to be a very different beast, quite clearly, and so a different branding is entirely appropriate.
If they expect us to pay $300 for GS as well as $300 for Graphene, just to keep our old games updated, then I'll understand any anger. As it is, we're getting exactly what we've asked for.
All this complaining is a mystery to me
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One thing why this announcement really scares me. Is that I have a dream, to release my big Gamesalad game on PC, OUYA, Amazon Fire TV and this puts this dream in danger.
Shadows Peak is an atmospheric psychological horror that explores the dark side of a player.
@imGua
Maybe it doesnt. Keep in mind I understand the next major relase of GS wont be until Q1 of 2015...I assume around the time 64 support will be included. Maybe even the exe and multiplayer stuff as well as other things being finally tuned to most everyones liking. Then with the new Graphene SDK we get a whole new toy to play with. Everyone at the gates....ready to run with it.
Complete Guide to iOS Publishing {} Complete Guide to Mac Publishing
Wow. I'm shocked so many are hesitant of this new tool. We've been asking, and at times, demanding the GS team start kicking it up a notch and producing a more professional tool. From what I've just seen, it seems that they are creating everything we've been wanting, yet now we're complaining?
This tool seems to be much more professional, allowing us to have a new user interface, native plugin support and I'm sure other features we've been wanting for years! Why everyone is a little wary I'm not sure. Don't get me wrong, I understand some questions that were brought up, especially the price of Graphene and if GS Pro will carry over. There are some questions I'd like answered, too, but right now I'm just so happy with this announcement I think seeking answers to those questions should come later.
After thinking about it, I think it makes complete sense for the Cross Platform Creator to be separate from GameSalad; it has to be. GameSalad was initially written on a bad codebase. In order to create an extremely professional tool, the team would have needed to start from the ground up.
I'm just speaking my opinion. Many of you have very valid questions. From the previews we've seen, I just expected everyone to be cheering the GS Team forward. I think that's what we should do.
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I highly doubt you'll ever see GameSalad support OUYA. The market is tiny and it would be a waste of resources to shoehorn support in there. Amazon Fire TV also seems very unlikely. They've support Kindle Fire for ages, and they seem to have very close ties to Amazon. If Fire TV support was coming I'd expect it to have come by now. And as someone who owns a Fire TV (and loves it)... it's not a games machine. I'd be curious how many people actually use it for games. I'm betting not many.
Native Windows support, however, they've semi-promised in the past, so that one seems realistic.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Grapheme looks and sounds amazing, a great improvement from the current GS creator, i don't think anyone disagrees with that. The concern i see people having would be having to maintain their old projects in the old creator which will become what the windows creator is now ( slow to update, left behind etc.). Another thing would be the price, it is pretty much guaranteed to go up by at least $200 a year, so $500 a year for access to both creators.
I say again, graphene looks and sounds amazing, and will be working with it in the future.
Fortuna Infortuna Forti Una
GameSalad is what it is ... and I love it ... I always design and work on games I can work on and finish now! I don't start a game hoping they introduce a new feature as my game relies on that. I'm happy to maintain any game I currently have with GameSalad and work on latter titles with Graphene! The reality is, I don't really update my existing games too much, I definitely would if any were to get any real attention mind you.
Graphene promises so much and its something to be very stoked about. Native plugin support! Before you know it we will have access to camera, microphone, about anything you can think of! We'll have joints from the off ... Oh my!!!! A powerful engine that has a proven track record that has created hits! The only real negative is there will be a learning curve, it will not be as simple as GameSalad and as that is engrained within me, I'm sure I will be frustrated lots .... But once I learn how to unearth that power and all those features, it will be awesome!
The price is nothing really and a price point we don't actually know yet! People have estimated $500 for access to both creators! With the potential you can make back, thats nothing in reality! every year I have created games, I have easily made back and dev fees including game creation software! And even if i didn't that wouldn't bother me as I'm doing what my dream was from a young age, its a small price to pay for that.
Lastly, no one will force you to use Graphene! The choice is yours, if you want to use it, you pay, if not, you don't. I'm sure GameSalad will slow but maybe they've pushed it to where they think they can on the existing code base and as a business, maybe it just doesn't make sense anymore!
Remember Codewizard knows the Graphene engine very, very well ... With him steering the ship, we're sailing very nicely! Good work GS team and have a merry Christmas everyone!
I like the interface. At least it has grips. So far is what I can see. would it be the same logic for coding?
so much mind blowing information
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If Graphene is going to be better than GS Creator. Then why would people keep using GS Creator? You " KNOW " there will be a day when GS Creator users are gonna whine about how Graphene support and features are getting more attention than GS Creator and accuse you of Leaving GS Creator on the side of the road. You "KNOW" people are gonna ask why GS Creator cant have "that cool feature" that Graphene has. You " KNOW " there is gonna come a day when Graphene feature releases are deadlined and you are forced to pull GS Creator assets over the Graphene " temporarily ".
I may be a Black Sheep of sorts. But I speak my mind and Im sorry to play devils advocate. But you "KNOW" this is gonna happen.
Its all nice and daisy to say. "Im excited", "I cant wait". But I think its more constructive to have reservations towards all the glamour and shineys and pazzaz.
The thing about graphine is you don't have to wait for features you can just add a plug in
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To be honest, as a former pro member (and probably going to renew that soon), I'm pretty happy they have been devoting resources to this. Gamesalad has a very visible ceiling, and the tool is pretty good for doing what it does right now.
I can understand the frustration and can relate to the slow crawl of updates, but things like extension support and coding support will make this a more community-driven experience. If GS had that kind of extension/plug-in environment, I think we would have seen some pretty amazing things by now.
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I'm feeling a bit mixed on this. On one hand, this looks like a nice engine. On the other splitting resources seems to be a bad idea. I mean GS is still "Beta" software.
However, given that this has already been the case, and GS is still getting updates, I hope it's safe to assume that this won't have a major impact into the GS creators updates for the time being.
Plug-in support and powferul coding features sounds excellent so consider me intrigued. Hoping too see more details soon.
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I really want to know the coding language we should use to code the plugins so I could spend all winter learning that language when the sdk is ready for the release
I doubt that, it is not flexible enough and I think it is the main reason for the rewrite.
Yes I would like to know this too @CodeWizard taking a guess probably C++ or C#.
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