Again, if Gendai would just change their minds and give us xcode source to compile ourselves with additional features added at our own risk, that would solve all the issues with not supporting important iDevice OS features like InApp Purchasing, GameCenter, iAds, Social Networking, and a host of others.
Sure you'd have to learn to program the extras in, but you would not have to reinvent the wheel on the basics in your app. This would be a phenomenal move on the part of Gendai, since they would be able to concentrate on fixing the bugs and shortcomings in the base product, while providing a valuable service for all their customers.
Face it, with no documentation, doing most things requires almost as much time as xcode-ing them anyway. But there are things that GameSalad can really shorten the development cycle on - things that relate to the meat and potatoes of the app. On the other hand there are some things that are easier in XCode than in GameSalad, and in fact are currently impossible in GameSalad, but relatively simple if you could just tweak the source...
What is the reason to deny releasing the source code (albeit ugly) to the paying subscribers? Is it a fear that the GameSalad Logo might be removed? Simply have a clause in the membership contract that demands it.
Some people have said that they do not want to code, and GameSalad should provide all the features for them. I submit that that is unrealistic and an insurmountable burden of Gendai's ability to succeed. If they have to be all things to all people, they will likely fail. On the other hand, if they concentrate on providing the best development environment for their niche, and then release source code as the finished product to their subscribers (contractually limited to confidentiality, so as to not undermine their value to the community) then they could actually finish the editor, eradicate all the bugs, provide documentation, and control the world from a standpoint of being extremely valuable to people who wanted to get an app done "codelessly".
Nothing says that a member would have to add code, but allowing them to do so would exponentially increase the value of GameSalad. Remember, each member that uses GameSalad also by default has access to and is an Apple iDeveloper, so has an interest in XCode for their compiling purposes. Who says you have to take your gameproj XML all the way to executable without passing "source"? This is arbitrary and perhaps there is no valid reason for it.
Hi good to see your response Adent42, although I still feel Im left a little in the dark here...
You mention engine stability and iOS4 features again, but what about the basic editor tools and interface? No mention of that.
Is there any plans to improve the editor interface, so its less cumbersome when working with complicated scenes? Is there any plans to add standard interface features like snapping to grid, layer hiding, multiple selection/drag/drop of actors, improvements and refinements to the animation system....
things like that.... the important things that make it enjoyable, rather than fiddly and annoying to create our games.
Surely you should be doing some of this with each and every update as standard streamlining and refinement of the product?
I'd ask who actually designs the interface and tools? Is it coder decided or do you actually have someone using the editor on a daily basis, creating different types of games and giving you feedback on how the tool works in a real world environment?
Getting the code would open them up to too much risk. All their custom libraries etc would be there. And I imagine the generated code would be a maze to get around. It'd be cool but I will eat my own hand if they do it
It would only be distributed to partners (us) who would be subject to NDA's. Sure the generated code would be spaghetti like, but anyone who really had an interest in adding some support for basic iDevice features could do so. And the ultimate responsibility for the functionality of the finished project is ours anyway, not GENDAI'S. That's already agreed to to become a GS member.
I find it frustrating that several apps I have recently submitted have been denied for reasons of not directly including social networking, and in-app purchases. Not everyone is interested in building another physics-based "block-knock". Not fully supporting the target devices' OS is a show stopper, and when I can't use GameSalad to produce something of value to my customers and have to go directly to XCode, then GameSalad loses its interest.
GameSalad has excellent potential to be valuable to a broader base of customers, if they did this. Vertical Market software is intrinsically limited to those who are interested in the same narrow goals.
An App generator does not have to be subject to these limitations. Providing source is an easy way to expand the horizons and make the product more valuable to a wider user base.
adent42 said: We believe a great product or game is created out of a great experience. GameSalad is not about features. We don't want to just add features, we want to enhance the experience. We only want to add features any new user can pick up quickly and that makes existing users feel good about our product.
This isn't about random features. Game Center and iAds are core features for game developers looking to make money in the iTunes market. If the goal is to create software for game creators who dabble in development as a hobby, and professional developer concerns are secondary, then I see that as a problem.
I can see how Game Center is an issue. I'm not sure how it works exactly, so I'm not even sure how to implement it. But iAds?! ...something of that level should be ready to go by the end of the month. It fits perfectly with the theme of GameSalad... shouldn't it simply be as easy as drag-and-dropping an actor the same size as an iAds banner size?
I don't see why iAds has to wait for future releases. That should be in the next release and it should be before the end of the month.
I'm in the middle of creating a great app... perhaps better than Commove... that is specifically designed with iAds in mind and it shows off the strength of GameSalad. (It even has quick loading times!) The uncertainty is frustrating, as it doesn't look like my app will be ready for the July 1 launch of iAds.
Photics said: This isn't about random features. Game Center and iAds are core features for game developers looking to make money in the iTunes market. If the goal is to create software for game creators who dabble in development as a hobby, and professional developer concerns are secondary, then I see that as a problem.
I'm in agreement with you on iAds. I think it could mean more income for people in the App store. I do agree too with people that want more stability and features in Gamesalad, and those are always in the works.
What I want to know is....
Those of you who are dismissing the idea of iAds and saying it's not a priority.
Do you:
1) Have any experience using admob or placing ads in free games?
2) If so, what have your sales been?
If people who haven't had any experience at all with admob or are not in the know on this, perhaps they should research it a bit more or talk to someone who has used admob and has had successful income generated from it's usage.
From what I hear, if you have a top free app, you can generate a good amount of income from making it free.
The key is knowing which apps will do really well in the free market versus paid.
I have one ready to go that I'm sure will be a hit in the free market.
adent42 said: We believe a great product or game is created out of a great experience. GameSalad is not about features. We don't want to just add features, we want to enhance the experience. We only want to add features any new user can pick up quickly and that makes existing users feel good about our product.
hmmmm
I work side by side with the owners of a small growing business, so I know this whole spiel very intimately. This to me seems like a tactic of just leading us with bread crumbs. Keep promising things for the future to keep us distracted from what GS is lacking.
I have been a member of GS for about 8 months and the only added feature that was important has been the save ability. When an update comes out I generally ignore the update until my current project is complete because i'm afraid of new bugs that have come with the new update. This should say something to you at GS if your members don't even feel its worth the time, or trouble to update you product.
I feel that if I took the time over these past 8 months to learn how to code I would probably be in a much better situation for the future of the app store. In a way I think that GS has crippled us and i'm seriously thinking about finishing these last 2 projects I have then ending GS until something useful comes out. During that time I'll probably learn how to code.
Player_E said: I have been a member of GS for about 8 months and the only added feature that was important has been the save ability.
That doesn't seem accurate to me. Here are some additional features that impressed me...
Interpolate iPad Auto-Rotation Improved performance (loading time appears to be faster)
For me, the main goal is making money. GameSalad is an excellent development tool to accomplish that task. That's why I see iAds as important. I've used AdMob. It was nice. I currently use Microsoft ads on the web pages for my Android games. It's great! I think iAds will be even better. The iAd client list is amazing... big-bucks companies.
It seems that a user only has to click an ad once to generate the same profit as a $1.99 app. Now which is more likely to happen? ...someone downloading a free app and clicking an advertisement or buying a game from a fairly unknown publisher? I think it's highly likely that ads will be clicked over the lifetime of a downloaded game... and free means more downloads. Also, if I won't buy apps, why should I expect my customers to do the same?
The current plan... + Wait for iAds support in GameSalad. + Launch awesome new app with iAds. (Yes, it might even be better than Commove!) + Generate lots of money + If I make the equivalent of a full-time salary, upgrade to pro + Add links to version without advertisements + Create custom loading screen to build up the Photics brand + Generate even more money!
I really don't understand all the frustration and negativity that's suddenly cropped up. iOS4 was just announced a matter of weeks ago. iAds isn't even available yet. They need time to implement these features and test them.
It is a true testament to the power of GameSalad that everyone is able to create games SO rapidly that weeks start to feel like a long time!
One of my best friends is a level designer for BioShock 2. He worked on that game for 2 years!
I have been using Photoshop for 20 years now. I distinctly remember when they added the concept of layers in Photoshop 3. Which was 5 YEARS! after Photoshop came out.
While you are waiting for these new features to be implemented, take this time to really polish up your game. Spend a few extra days on the artwork, add details everywhere, make sure the game is bug free, have a bunch of friends and family test the game and get their feedback, make sure there are no spelling errors, etc. etc...
Also, take this time to create a buzz for your game over at sites like TouchArcade. Show a bunch of screenshots, make some gameplay videos, get everybody excited!
Don't just release your game into the darkness of the App store and hope for the best.
While Gendai is working on their side, make sure the things that you have control over - the art, animation, audio, and code are the best they can be.
Gamesalad keeps getting better and better with each new release. The last release which slashed loading times was amazing.
I have been making video games professionally for 15 years now. I am well aware of the shortcomings of GameSalad. But the positive far outweighs the negative.
it's a tough one. I agree with pretty much both sides of the argument.
For me.... GameCenter is the most important thing for where we are at with our games. A lot of the negative feedback we have is that there are no leaderboards/Openfeint integration etc etc etc. in our games.
iAds isn't so at the fore for me, as we have no experience of releasing a free app with ads.....and by all accounts, you have to have a pretty big "free hit" to gain any kind of decent revenue. There seems to be a lot of people here who are convinced iAds is the answer to all their problems. To put it in perspective though, one of our free apps, only does around 20-40 every day, and has done a few thousand in it's lifetime. I can't imagine that having ads in would bring about anything like the kind of revenue that you may hope. Fair play, if you have a free app that's downloaded in the millions, you may have a shot, but from what I have read and heard, you have to have something pretty special that 1. gets that many downloads, and 2. keeps that many users/players But for those of you who have it at the top of your list, I feel the frustration.
I think it's harsh to slam the recent GS updates for lack of new features. Every release has "something". For us, the latest release managed to get over one of my MAJOR problems with GS so far. The loading times. I would literally be embarrassed when showing our games to people and having to wait 15-20 seconds for them to load. We are now loading in around 4 seconds. To us, that's a god-send, more so than any new features, or editor improvements.
I have never used any software that is updated as regularly, and with as many changes in as GS.
--- For example. Im my day job, I am a music producer/engineer, and I use Cubase (by Steinberg) Cubase SX3 was around for YEARS, with hardly any changes, then Cubase4 came along, and it looked great. So I payed £500 approx. to get onto cubase 4. And it was SHITE! Riddled with bugs, and lots of really obvious things just broken And it pretty much stayed that way for 6 months until the first major update arrived. This update fixed a lot of the major gripes people had, but it also broke a shed load of other things...and also things that I know for a fact some users used on a daily basis. Another few months passed, and there was another update that finally, after over a year, got cubase 4 working to a standard that most users called "acceptable" ..... And then they announced Cubase 5....a paid for update! (£400 ish) (Of course we all bought it!) ---
Maybe the fact that GS is still "beta" is causing expectations for new features to be somewhat higher than maybe they should?
and yes..... The editor is a bit rubbish in oh so many ways And some things don't work as some people might expect and some parts are a bit limited
But honestly, how many of you would be at the stage you are at with games/apps released to the public, and competing with some major corporations if it was not for GS? I know I'd still be sat here, picking my bum, thinking about how to make it happen.
(sorry, long post, that sounds a bit arse licky. Just think it's nice to put things into perspective sometimes)
firemaplegames said: I really don't understand all the frustration and negativity that's suddenly cropped up. iOS4 was just announced a matter of weeks ago. iAds isn't even available yet. They need time to implement these features and test them.
Not entirely true... have you logged into iTunes Connect lately? Regardless, Apple is clearly getting ready for Game Center and iAds. Meanwhile, Gendai Games seems to be forsaking many other platforms... Android, PC, Better Web support... for Apple support. Specifically, GameSalad seems to be for iPhone / iPod Touch and iPad.
The main reason I haven't given up on Apple development is because of iAds and Game Center. Otherwise, I might as well develop for Android.
July 1 is the start date for iAds. And as I've quickly learned with the App Store, if you're not first you're pretty much last.
I have been using Photoshop for 20 years now. I distinctly remember when they added the concept of layers in Photoshop 3. Which was 5 YEARS! after Photoshop came out.
I've been using Photoshop for about 16 years. I remember not liking layers when they were first introduced. HA! Things moved at a different pace back then. Lots of publishers were still using paste-up for their layouts.
But now that Photoshop has layers, would you settle for a version without layers? I'm not new to mobile development. I've seen a huge difference in revenue with advertisement based games, when compared to games that are purchased.
While you are waiting for these new features to be implemented, take this time to really polish up your game. Spend a few extra days on the artwork, add details everywhere, make sure the game is bug free, have a bunch of friends and family test the game and get their feedback, make sure there are no spelling errors, etc. etc...
I set up a schedule for my next project and I'm planning to launch at the end of the month.
Also, take this time to create a buzz for your game over at sites like TouchArcade. Show a bunch of screenshots, make some gameplay videos, get everybody excited!
Don't just release your game into the darkness of the App store and hope for the best.
I've tried that. It doesn't work. People like free stuff... period! Apple has already built a market. People already go there looking for games. Yet, there's a clear divide... FREE and PAID. I've tried carving out success on the paid side on the iTunes store. It's not easy. Yet, I've seen what it's like on the free side of the Android Market... significantly easier... more profitable.
So, I can launch my games on the paid side and watch a few sales trickle in... or I can launch a free game and see download numbers in the thousands. This is why I'm frustrated with GameSalad. I can't link to my games without spending $2000 for the Pro license... but I can't afford such a license with the way my games are selling.
I don't control what Gendai Games does with their software. That's cool. It is their software. They can do what they want. Yet, I do control what software I use and what platforms I work with. The common response around here is... well use Corona... or Unity... or whatever. Is that what Gendai Games wants? Do they want to see developers get frustrated and leave, to spend money on other software packages?
It should be very easy for Gendai Games to implement iAds and Game Center. This should save them a lot of work actually, as it's a native advertisement system and social gaming system... Gendai Games doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. They just have to attach it to the car. I don't want to drive a three-wheeled car. If some serious development is not done in the next two weeks, it says that I'm using the wrong software.
I fully agree with you Photics, espeically on making it in the "paid" store. It's not easy. You can market your game, show people, post in forums, make videos, but it's definitely not easy.
I also think that iAds aren't for everyone, but if you are serious about making some money, and know which apps will fit into the "Free" category, then you could do well.
I too have a plan for which apps I will make free versus paid, and I have a free one done and ready to go that I feel will do extremely well with iAds.
It's clear everyone has varying motivations, and ideas of what features should come next, but I'm certain that with iAds, I will be making more $ than I am now just doing paid apps.
Well hell, it seems that everyone has some gripe, and I feel a bit shy to suggest that my comments are even worthy. However I have published 3 games with GS, good or bad, they are there. I purchased the program under the idea that NON PROGRAMMERS could use it. This MIGHT be true, but only on a limited basis once you get the GS system installed and working with all the code sign stuff. So once you get over the Apple stuff, then you start out on your first journey, and almost the first thing you say is, what the heck am I doing. So you go to the Wiki, or you ask for member help or you watch a video by tshirt or weswog, or whomever and, then, something starts to click, you start getting it. But during this incubation time, you ask for gods on high to send you a detailed well written book, ebook, or notes scribbled on paper or rocks or sheep skin, something so you can go to a place and read what should be done. The guys who wrote this program surely should be putting 100% effort into making that basic statement of not being a programmer to use GS, a truth. I have not become a programmer but I have become a programmer of GS, and I am bumping into place that need attention. Stability is very important, very. Its better in 8.7 but it still has a few issues, I save projects often, which is a good practice no matter what you use. But REAL doc is the number one issue for me. I ask questions and if they fall on the good eyes of some member who knows the answer and if they feel inclined or have time I some times get an answer, but for the most part, I hunt around, tear projects apart, and dig for answers. So maybe I have become a good digger and not a programmer. THere are many many good things about GS, but one simple issue for me is not just reading the alpha for transparency but creating an object out of the non alpha area, I hate rectangles and round things, I dont want to bitch too much but the base code needs more tools, at this point I could care less about Iadd, or I this and that, that is all Apple Hype, who knows if it is really a good idea, GS guys have a while before they need worry about that stuff, they need to give us better internal tools, with great, great, great documentation. New features are important, but there is probably a host of stuff I could do that I dont have a clue how to do, but if GS folks explained them in detail, I would be happy. This is a massive undertaking and I applaud and give props to the GS team, but even Apple gives out good doc, you guys need to do the same. I saw you were hiring a bunch of folks, you need a doc writer who know the code or has access to the people that do. Its not the cost of the code, 99 buxs, its getting the moneys worth based on know what it will do and what it wont do. I have begun many apps only to find out, that I was stuck and finding a way out was and is not an easy task. But then when I played more I found a way, but I am not doing this to play games, I want to make games, and other apps. I for one dont really care about using the camera, but I DO WANT THE DAMN keyboard. At least that gives me names for high scores. Going to the web and that whole thing is a great idea and I guess you can buy that for 2K. But there is No selling doc, or explanation of how I am going to use this feature. Explain it to me, show me the power and i will pony up for the price if it is important. Make good doc, start there, then we can all make better code and you will have a happy group supporting you and making better games.
Well hell, it seems that everyone has some gripe, and I feel a bit shy to suggest that my comments are even worthy. However I have published 3 games with GS, good or bad, they are there. I purchased the program under the idea that NON PROGRAMMERS could use it. This MIGHT be true, but only on a limited basis once you get the GS system installed and working with all the code sign stuff. So once you get over the Apple stuff, then you start out on your first journey, and almost the first thing you say is, what the heck am I doing. So you go to the Wiki, or you ask for member help or you watch a video by tshirt or weswog, or whomever and, then, something starts to click, you start getting it. But during this incubation time, you ask for gods on high to send you a detailed well written book, ebook, or notes scribbled on paper or rocks or sheep skin, something so you can go to a place and read what should be done. The guys who wrote this program surely should be putting 100% effort into making that basic statement of not being a programmer to use GS, a truth. I have not become a programmer but I have become a programmer of GS, and I am bumping into place that need attention. Stability is very important, very. Its better in 8.7 but it still has a few issues, I save projects often, which is a good practice no matter what you use. But REAL doc is the number one issue for me. I ask questions and if they fall on the good eyes of some member who knows the answer and if they feel inclined or have time I some times get an answer, but for the most part, I hunt around, tear projects apart, and dig for answers. So maybe I have become a good digger and not a programmer. THere are many many good things about GS, but one simple issue for me is not just reading the alpha for transparency but creating an object out of the non alpha area, I hate rectangles and round things, I dont want to bitch too much but the base code needs more tools, at this point I could care less about Iadd, or I this and that, that is all Apple Hype, who knows if it is really a good idea, GS guys have a while before they need worry about that stuff, they need to give us better internal tools, with great, great, great documentation. New features are important, but there is probably a host of stuff I could do that I dont have a clue how to do, but if GS folks explained them in detail, I would be happy. This is a massive undertaking and I applaud and give props to the GS team, but even Apple gives out good doc, you guys need to do the same. I saw you were hiring a bunch of folks, you need a doc writer who know the code or has access to the people that do. Its not the cost of the code, 99 buxs, its getting the moneys worth based on know what it will do and what it wont do. I have begun many apps only to find out, that I was stuck and finding a way out was and is not an easy task. But then when I played more I found a way, but I am not doing this to play games, I want to make games, and other apps. I for one dont really care about using the camera, but I DO WANT THE DAMN keyboard. At least that gives me names for high scores. Going to the web and that whole thing is a great idea and I guess you can buy that for 2K. But there is No selling doc, or explanation of how I am going to use this feature. Explain it to me, show me the power and i will pony up for the price if it is important. Make good doc, start there, then we can all make better code and you will have a happy group supporting you and making better games.
vegasmike1 said: But REAL doc is the number one issue for me.
I think Yodapollo is working on that. I looked for the post to confirm that, but I couldn't find it.
I started work on a GameSalad book, but then I discontinued the project. I figured it would take me a month to write a good GameSalad textbook. Then I wondered how many copies would sell. I figured that I'd sell like 100 copies. So if I make like $6 per book, that's not a lot of money. I have more fun with game development. It usually takes about a 1-3 weeks to make a good game.
I also feel that the documentation available is pretty good... there are video tutorials, the wiki has some useful information and the forums are loaded with great info.
Do people really want a GameSalad Textbook? I can still restart the project.
A good book is invaluable for the growth of GS, as they add new stuff, it will become more complex, not less, in order for them to survive, GS that is, they either have to raise the price of the code, or find ways to incrementally increase revenue. I would gladly pay another 100 bucks for a GOOD buck that explains every aspect of the code, but assuming I am in the minority, then a book that is in PDF, ebook so to speak, could be sold for 20 bucks, 6 bucks is way way too low. But at this moment you have only 1 buyer, me. Maybe others will chime in, dont know. If you write a comprehensive book, that is GOOD, and good is easy to define, I read it, I understand it and I get more from GS the way it is. I would fund the effort to some degree. It could be subscription or , here is the first rev, in the future, some short time, there will be with each update a manual update and you either pay for it or not. Of course then everyone will steal it and it will end up making you no money. However you might be able to make it an app, that people could buy for 20 bucks, and view on the idevice. theft would be less. Even printing it wont stop theft. Or as a final shot, the folks at GS might buy it, and they would absorb that cost and give it to members, or what ever makes biz sense.
The more they work on this program and the more they open it up to more features and capabilities the more it is going to need this.
Searching for things is not so much fun, but you are right there is a lot of info here, it just needs to be consolidated and filtered. If I had the time I would do it. But no time,
I couldn't agree with you more. What's cool is that you're obviously one of the more successful users of this software.
Personally, I think people are getting frustrated because they want to make money and 'be successful' on the App store. When that doesn't happen, they lash out. They shift the responsibility onto the tools, and blame GameSalad for their lack of success.
I think you, and Tshirt, and a handful of others here have proven that you *can* be successful on the app store with a GameSalad game.
Yep, a GameSalad game that doesn't have iAds. Or GameCentre. OR leaderboards.
Having said that...
@Adent Taking out a simple pause function seriously impacted my 'experience' of GameSalad. And it has done for months now.
Well my last little bit on this and then I will get back to trying to figure things out. I am not one to bitch about software, I have been in charge of making software for a long time. When I started my hair was nice and brown, now its white, oh well. Never the less, I like GS, it does some cool things, it could do more. But if it were a car, it would be getting me down the road, safely most of the time, and I know that its not going to get worse over time, it will get better.
Its cool to want a Jedi Warrior Flying car, right now, but learn what you got, and use your imagination to think of new ways to push the outside of the box around. I dont think there are many successful developers with apple, its a select group that have made a lot of money and a whole lot of folks that have made NADA, zero or less. No sales is still a waste of all the time you put in .
Many features are needed and maybe they will come, but I am not waiting for GS, I am forging ahead as best I can, and if I hit one out of the park or just a nice double, it wont be because of new features, it will be because I came up with a good APP, when the new stuff comes in, I can make it better and so on and so on. Its like saving money, if you dont save for 20 years when you get 20 years down the road you have nothing, but it you save a little every week, in 20 years you got something. Waiting for the new features is a foolish move, I have seen a lot of games with GS and frankly, naming no names, there are a lot of apps that could use some help, not in programming but design, art, sounds, logic, layout, etc etc. Get better at what you have guys. If you make garbage games Iadd or any other little ditty is not going to help a bit. Bad games are always going to be bad games, no what you used, Unity, Xciode it makes no difference. Start thinking how you can use this software today and how you can get better raise the bar, make some money and help the GS folks grow the biz. Podium mode off.
That's exactly what I was thinking, QS. Instead of blaming Gendai for a lack of features which would help sell your game better, MAKE A BETTER GAME.
I think stability and DOCUMENTATION are the most important thing. We definitely need docs, half of the wiki entries are incomplete or terribly written and impossible to understand. I have been relying on my own brain's limited logic and the GS community to get my stuff done.
YES I want GameCentre. But gimme PAUSE, DOCS and STABILITY first.
Oh and well done to Gendai on the last update! The loading times on my game are outstanding now! THAT was a BIG thing for me...
I started out wanting everything right now... but I have decided that GameSalad is an amazing tool. I CAN MAKE GAMES, GOOD GAMES!!!! WITHOUT HAVING TO CODE!!!! And it's still in beta. Just imagine what GS will be like in a year or so!
@Gendai: if already Tshirtbooth is complaining about GameSalad, then you are deeper in the !@#$%, than you ever thought!
To be honest, I have quit using GameSalad months ago, just because of the lack of any progress in development. I rather pay for a programmer, but at least I can make the games I want.
Gendai as a company is failing to acomplish their main task. It is indefensible for a company to work so slow in such a competitive market.
How many people are there working on GameSalad? Probably one college student, who works only on weekends, when there is no party at the campus.
To be honest, if I were Apple, I already would have closed the door for GameSalad, because it absolutely fits into the new rules about third party tools being developed too slow...
Hunnenkoenig said: Wow! I never thought it will happen!
@Gendai: if already Tshirtbooth is complaining about GameSalad, then you are deeper in the !@#$%, than you ever thought!
To be honest, I have quit using GameSalad months ago, just because of the lack of any progress in development. I rather pay for a programmer, but at least I can make the games I want.
Gendai as a company is failing to acomplish their main task. It is indefensible for a company to work so slow in such a competitive market.
How many people are there working on GameSalad? Probably one college student, who works only on weekends, when there is no party at the campus.
To be honest, if I were Apple, I already would have closed the door for GameSalad, because it absolutely fits into the new rules about third party tools being developed too slow...
Why didn't I think of that? Why don't we all just pay programmers to do it for us?
"We believe a great product or game is created out of a great experience. GameSalad is not about features. We don't want to just add features, we want to enhance the experience."
OK, how about some food for thought regarding the GS experience:
- Creator has no alignment options
- Creator has unusable object selection handles
- Retrieving an actor's attributes requires multiple clicks into the editor
- The panes in the Creator UI revert back to default dimensions every time the view is changed
- Actors can only be arrowkey-positioned in 1 pixel increments
- It is impossible to select multiple actors
- It is impossible to group actors
These are not gaming bells and whistles, these are core editing features, no, requirements, whose omission hinders development and makes for a tedious development experience. The above list doesn't even include the inability of actors to talk to each other or read each other's attributes, nor the inability to refer to actors programmatically. I, personally, cannot understand how folks are complaining about the lack of upcoming Apple features when these basic editing necessities are not present in the environment.
"A great experience requires a stable base to build upon, which is why we're spending time on stability and reliability."
I've seen references to this again and again, and yet I still need to restart Creator every 10 minutes.
Gendai, it is clear that you're listening. My sincere wish is that you are acting upon what you hear.
The above list doesn't even include the inability of actors to talk to each other or read each other's attributes, nor the inability to refer to actors programmatically.
This, however, is already possible. Any Actor instance in a Scene can read or CONTROL any other Actor instance's attributes.
Any Actor instance in a Scene can read or CONTROL any other Actor instance's attributes.
True, my mistake. I should have said programmatic references to attributes. Regardless, the issues I mentioned (as well as those mentioned by you, ChunkyPixels, and others) still stand.
quantumsheep said: I couldn't agree with you more. What's cool is that you're obviously one of the more successful users of this software.
I see two main success stories with GameSalad... tshirtbooth and firemaplegames. I think Hunnenkoenig is right. It's a big problem for Gendai Games when one of their star players is not happy with the development progress.
...and what is tshirtbooth saying? It's something like give us Game Center now and we'll be too busy to complain. I don't think it's unreasonable. With Game Center and iAds, we can wander off and make games while Gendai Games can focus on making GameSalad better.
Personally, I think people are getting frustrated because they want to make money and 'be successful' on the App store. When that doesn't happen, they lash out. They shift the responsibility onto the tools, and blame GameSalad for their lack of success.
No, that's incorrect. I'm finding success in the iTunes store with GameSalad. Commove has done well. Yet, it's currently locked into the GameSalad platform. Currently, I can't put Commove on my website for Internet Explorer / Firefox users to enjoy. I can't launch it as a PC game. I can't port it over to Android. GameSalad is mainly focused on iOS devices. So, I look to Gendai Games to see what they're doing.
...oh, OK... no Android support right now...
So, if they're going to dedicate themselves to iPhone / iPad games, then it's not unreasonable to gauge their performance based on how they release new features. Gendai Games did well with the iPad. That's why I'm surprised support for iAds and Game Center doesn't appear to be as quick.
Communication... that's the main issue. If they had said a month ago, "Dude, don't expect iAds on launch." I would have worked on a different project. Instead, we had the line "rhymes with iPad" ...which lead the community to assume that iAds is on the way.
That's not good business. Would you shop in a store that said things to you like that?
Customer: How much is this shirt? Shopkeeper: rhymes with 'drive hollers'
Game Development is not just a hobby to me. I'm trying to make it into a success business. I realize that I might not succeed in this endeavor. I knew that going into this. Yet, I shouldn't have to fail because I couldn't figure out a supplier's rhymes. This month, I'm specifically creating a game designed around iAds and the strengths of GameSalad. Not knowing if I can launch my game bothers me.
I think you, and Tshirt, and a handful of others here have proven that you *can* be successful on the app store with a GameSalad game.
Taking out a simple pause function seriously impacted my 'experience' of GameSalad. And it has done for months now.
You know, I was thinking about your pause problem the other day. While testing a game in GameSalad, I use a pause button... and by using this pause button in the GameSalad software, I can pause my game on my testing device. It seems like this functionality would be an ideal way to pause a game... everything stops... but then how would everything start up again if the screen is completely frozen? I'm not sure what GameSalad is doing to stop my device like that, but it's just how pause should work.
Communication... that's the main issue. If they had said a month ago, "Dude, don't expect iAds on launch." I would have worked on a different project. Instead, we had the line "rhymes with iPad" ...which lead the community to assume that iAds is on the way.
That's not good business. Would you shop in a store that said things to you like that?
Did you read the big picture? I could have sworn that Gendai said iAds was on the way... ;-)
POLYGAMe said: Did you read the big picture? I could have sworn that Gendai said iAds was on the way... ;-)
"Future releases" states an indefinite time-line. That information creates difficulty in planning. Do I continue to work on my iAd GameSalad project or do I work on something else? I don't know... future releases could mean end of June or 2012... I don't know!
Also, this posting was behind schedule. This new information, combined with the speed at which it was delivered, suggests uncertainty with future development.
Comments
Sure you'd have to learn to program the extras in, but you would not have to reinvent the wheel on the basics in your app. This would be a phenomenal move on the part of Gendai, since they would be able to concentrate on fixing the bugs and shortcomings in the base product, while providing a valuable service for all their customers.
Face it, with no documentation, doing most things requires almost as much time as xcode-ing them anyway. But there are things that GameSalad can really shorten the development cycle on - things that relate to the meat and potatoes of the app. On the other hand there are some things that are easier in XCode than in GameSalad, and in fact are currently impossible in GameSalad, but relatively simple if you could just tweak the source...
What is the reason to deny releasing the source code (albeit ugly) to the paying subscribers? Is it a fear that the GameSalad Logo might be removed? Simply have a clause in the membership contract that demands it.
Some people have said that they do not want to code, and GameSalad should provide all the features for them. I submit that that is unrealistic and an insurmountable burden of Gendai's ability to succeed. If they have to be all things to all people, they will likely fail. On the other hand, if they concentrate on providing the best development environment for their niche, and then release source code as the finished product to their subscribers (contractually limited to confidentiality, so as to not undermine their value to the community) then they could actually finish the editor, eradicate all the bugs, provide documentation, and control the world from a standpoint of being extremely valuable to people who wanted to get an app done "codelessly".
Nothing says that a member would have to add code, but allowing them to do so would exponentially increase the value of GameSalad. Remember, each member that uses GameSalad also by default has access to and is an Apple iDeveloper, so has an interest in XCode for their compiling purposes. Who says you have to take your gameproj XML all the way to executable without passing "source"? This is arbitrary and perhaps there is no valid reason for it.
You mention engine stability and iOS4 features again, but what about the basic editor tools and interface? No mention of that.
Is there any plans to improve the editor interface, so its less cumbersome when working with complicated scenes? Is there any plans to add standard interface features like snapping to grid, layer hiding, multiple selection/drag/drop of actors, improvements and refinements to the animation system....
things like that.... the important things that make it enjoyable, rather than fiddly and annoying to create our games.
Surely you should be doing some of this with each and every update as standard streamlining and refinement of the product?
I'd ask who actually designs the interface and tools? Is it coder decided or do you actually have someone using the editor on a daily basis, creating different types of games and giving you feedback on how the tool works in a real world environment?
It would only be distributed to partners (us) who would be subject to NDA's. Sure the generated code would be spaghetti like, but anyone who really had an interest in adding some support for basic iDevice features could do so. And the ultimate responsibility for the functionality of the finished project is ours anyway, not GENDAI'S. That's already agreed to to become a GS member.
I find it frustrating that several apps I have recently submitted have been denied for reasons of not directly including social networking, and in-app purchases. Not everyone is interested in building another physics-based "block-knock". Not fully supporting the target devices' OS is a show stopper, and when I can't use GameSalad to produce something of value to my customers and have to go directly to XCode, then GameSalad loses its interest.
GameSalad has excellent potential to be valuable to a broader base of customers, if they did this. Vertical Market software is intrinsically limited to those who are interested in the same narrow goals.
An App generator does not have to be subject to these limitations. Providing source is an easy way to expand the horizons and make the product more valuable to a wider user base.
I can see how Game Center is an issue. I'm not sure how it works exactly, so I'm not even sure how to implement it. But iAds?! ...something of that level should be ready to go by the end of the month. It fits perfectly with the theme of GameSalad... shouldn't it simply be as easy as drag-and-dropping an actor the same size as an iAds banner size?
I don't see why iAds has to wait for future releases. That should be in the next release and it should be before the end of the month.
I'm in the middle of creating a great app... perhaps better than Commove... that is specifically designed with iAds in mind and it shows off the strength of GameSalad. (It even has quick loading times!) The uncertainty is frustrating, as it doesn't look like my app will be ready for the July 1 launch of iAds.
What I want to know is....
Those of you who are dismissing the idea of iAds and saying it's not a priority.
Do you:
1) Have any experience using admob or placing ads in free games?
2) If so, what have your sales been?
If people who haven't had any experience at all with admob or are not in the know on this, perhaps they should research it a bit more or talk to someone who has used admob and has had successful income generated from it's usage.
From what I hear, if you have a top free app, you can generate a good amount of income from making it free.
The key is knowing which apps will do really well in the free market versus paid.
I have one ready to go that I'm sure will be a hit in the free market.
I work side by side with the owners of a small growing business, so I know this whole spiel very intimately. This to me seems like a tactic of just leading us with bread crumbs. Keep promising things for the future to keep us distracted from what GS is lacking.
I have been a member of GS for about 8 months and the only added feature that was important has been the save ability. When an update comes out I generally ignore the update until my current project is complete because i'm afraid of new bugs that have come with the new update. This should say something to you at GS if your members don't even feel its worth the time, or trouble to update you product.
I feel that if I took the time over these past 8 months to learn how to code I would probably be in a much better situation for the future of the app store. In a way I think that GS has crippled us and i'm seriously thinking about finishing these last 2 projects I have then ending GS until something useful comes out. During that time I'll probably learn how to code.
My thoughts
Interpolate
iPad
Auto-Rotation
Improved performance (loading time appears to be faster)
For me, the main goal is making money. GameSalad is an excellent development tool to accomplish that task. That's why I see iAds as important. I've used AdMob. It was nice. I currently use Microsoft ads on the web pages for my Android games. It's great! I think iAds will be even better. The iAd client list is amazing... big-bucks companies.
It seems that a user only has to click an ad once to generate the same profit as a $1.99 app. Now which is more likely to happen? ...someone downloading a free app and clicking an advertisement or buying a game from a fairly unknown publisher? I think it's highly likely that ads will be clicked over the lifetime of a downloaded game... and free means more downloads. Also, if I won't buy apps, why should I expect my customers to do the same?
The current plan...
+ Wait for iAds support in GameSalad.
+ Launch awesome new app with iAds. (Yes, it might even be better than Commove!)
+ Generate lots of money
+ If I make the equivalent of a full-time salary, upgrade to pro
+ Add links to version without advertisements
+ Create custom loading screen to build up the Photics brand
+ Generate even more money!
Without iAds, my master plan doesn't happen.
It is a true testament to the power of GameSalad that everyone is able to create games SO rapidly that weeks start to feel like a long time!
One of my best friends is a level designer for BioShock 2. He worked on that game for 2 years!
I have been using Photoshop for 20 years now. I distinctly remember when they added the concept of layers in Photoshop 3. Which was 5 YEARS! after Photoshop came out.
While you are waiting for these new features to be implemented, take this time to really polish up your game. Spend a few extra days on the artwork, add details everywhere, make sure the game is bug free, have a bunch of friends and family test the game and get their feedback, make sure there are no spelling errors, etc. etc...
Also, take this time to create a buzz for your game over at sites like TouchArcade. Show a bunch of screenshots, make some gameplay videos, get everybody excited!
Don't just release your game into the darkness of the App store and hope for the best.
While Gendai is working on their side, make sure the things that you have control over - the art, animation, audio, and code are the best they can be.
Gamesalad keeps getting better and better with each new release. The last release which slashed loading times was amazing.
I have been making video games professionally for 15 years now. I am well aware of the shortcomings of GameSalad. But the positive far outweighs the negative.
I agree with pretty much both sides of the argument.
For me.... GameCenter is the most important thing for where we are at with our games. A lot of the negative feedback we have is that there are no leaderboards/Openfeint integration etc etc etc. in our games.
iAds isn't so at the fore for me, as we have no experience of releasing a free app with ads.....and by all accounts, you have to have a pretty big "free hit" to gain any kind of decent revenue. There seems to be a lot of people here who are convinced iAds is the answer to all their problems. To put it in perspective though, one of our free apps, only does around 20-40 every day, and has done a few thousand in it's lifetime. I can't imagine that having ads in would bring about anything like the kind of revenue that you may hope. Fair play, if you have a free app that's downloaded in the millions, you may have a shot, but from what I have read and heard, you have to have something pretty special that 1. gets that many downloads, and 2. keeps that many users/players
But for those of you who have it at the top of your list, I feel the frustration.
I think it's harsh to slam the recent GS updates for lack of new features. Every release has "something". For us, the latest release managed to get over one of my MAJOR problems with GS so far. The loading times.
I would literally be embarrassed when showing our games to people and having to wait 15-20 seconds for them to load. We are now loading in around 4 seconds. To us, that's a god-send, more so than any new features, or editor improvements.
I have never used any software that is updated as regularly, and with as many changes in as GS.
---
For example. Im my day job, I am a music producer/engineer, and I use Cubase (by Steinberg)
Cubase SX3 was around for YEARS, with hardly any changes, then Cubase4 came along, and it looked great.
So I payed £500 approx. to get onto cubase 4. And it was SHITE! Riddled with bugs, and lots of really obvious things just broken
And it pretty much stayed that way for 6 months until the first major update arrived.
This update fixed a lot of the major gripes people had, but it also broke a shed load of other things...and also things that I know for a fact some users used on a daily basis.
Another few months passed, and there was another update that finally, after over a year, got cubase 4 working to a standard that most users called "acceptable"
.....
And then they announced Cubase 5....a paid for update! (£400 ish)
(Of course we all bought it!)
---
Maybe the fact that GS is still "beta" is causing expectations for new features to be somewhat higher than maybe they should?
and yes.....
The editor is a bit rubbish in oh so many ways
And some things don't work as some people might expect
and some parts are a bit limited
But honestly, how many of you would be at the stage you are at with games/apps released to the public, and competing with some major corporations if it was not for GS?
I know I'd still be sat here, picking my bum, thinking about how to make it happen.
(sorry, long post, that sounds a bit arse licky. Just think it's nice to put things into perspective sometimes)
Sparks.
xx
The main reason I haven't given up on Apple development is because of iAds and Game Center. Otherwise, I might as well develop for Android.
July 1 is the start date for iAds. And as I've quickly learned with the App Store, if you're not first you're pretty much last. I've been using Photoshop for about 16 years. I remember not liking layers when they were first introduced. HA! Things moved at a different pace back then. Lots of publishers were still using paste-up for their layouts.
But now that Photoshop has layers, would you settle for a version without layers? I'm not new to mobile development. I've seen a huge difference in revenue with advertisement based games, when compared to games that are purchased. As shown in this thread...
http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=6603
...I work hard on my games.
I set up a schedule for my next project and I'm planning to launch at the end of the month. I've tried that. It doesn't work. People like free stuff... period! Apple has already built a market. People already go there looking for games. Yet, there's a clear divide... FREE and PAID. I've tried carving out success on the paid side on the iTunes store. It's not easy. Yet, I've seen what it's like on the free side of the Android Market... significantly easier... more profitable.
So, I can launch my games on the paid side and watch a few sales trickle in... or I can launch a free game and see download numbers in the thousands. This is why I'm frustrated with GameSalad. I can't link to my games without spending $2000 for the Pro license... but I can't afford such a license with the way my games are selling.
I don't control what Gendai Games does with their software. That's cool. It is their software. They can do what they want. Yet, I do control what software I use and what platforms I work with. The common response around here is... well use Corona... or Unity... or whatever. Is that what Gendai Games wants? Do they want to see developers get frustrated and leave, to spend money on other software packages?
It should be very easy for Gendai Games to implement iAds and Game Center. This should save them a lot of work actually, as it's a native advertisement system and social gaming system... Gendai Games doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. They just have to attach it to the car. I don't want to drive a three-wheeled car. If some serious development is not done in the next two weeks, it says that I'm using the wrong software.
I also think that iAds aren't for everyone, but if you are serious about making some money, and know which apps will fit into the "Free" category, then you could do well.
I too have a plan for which apps I will make free versus paid, and I have a free one done and ready to go that I feel will do extremely well with iAds.
It's clear everyone has varying motivations, and ideas of what features should come next, but I'm certain that with iAds, I will be making more $ than I am now just doing paid apps.
So once you get over the Apple stuff, then you start out on your first journey, and almost the first thing you say is, what the heck am I doing. So you go to the Wiki, or you ask for member help or you watch a video by tshirt or weswog, or whomever and, then, something starts to click, you start getting it. But during this incubation time, you ask for gods on high to send you a detailed well written book, ebook, or notes scribbled on paper or rocks or sheep skin, something so you can go to a place and read what should be done.
The guys who wrote this program surely should be putting 100% effort into making that basic statement of not being a programmer to use GS, a truth. I have not become a programmer but I have become a programmer of GS, and I am bumping into place that need attention. Stability is very important, very. Its better in 8.7 but it still has a few issues, I save projects often, which is a good practice no matter what you use.
But REAL doc is the number one issue for me. I ask questions and if they fall on the good eyes of some member who knows the answer and if they feel inclined or have time I some times get an answer, but for the most part, I hunt around, tear projects apart, and dig for answers. So maybe I have become a good digger and not a programmer.
THere are many many good things about GS, but one simple issue for me is not just reading the alpha for transparency but creating an object out of the non alpha area, I hate rectangles and round things, I dont want to bitch too much but the base code needs more tools, at this point I could care less about Iadd, or I this and that, that is all Apple Hype, who knows if it is really a good idea, GS guys have a while before they need worry about that stuff, they need to give us better internal tools, with great, great, great documentation. New features are important, but there is probably a host of stuff I could do that I dont have a clue how to do, but if GS folks explained them in detail, I would be happy.
This is a massive undertaking and I applaud and give props to the GS team, but even Apple gives out good doc, you guys need to do the same. I saw you were hiring a bunch of folks, you need a doc writer who know the code or has access to the people that do.
Its not the cost of the code, 99 buxs, its getting the moneys worth based on know what it will do and what it wont do. I have begun many apps only to find out, that I was stuck and finding a way out was and is not an easy task. But then when I played more I found a way, but I am not doing this to play games, I want to make games, and other apps.
I for one dont really care about using the camera, but I DO WANT THE DAMN keyboard. At least that gives me names for high scores. Going to the web and that whole thing is a great idea and I guess you can buy that for 2K. But there is No selling doc, or explanation of how I am going to use this feature. Explain it to me, show me the power and i will pony up for the price if it is important.
Make good doc, start there, then we can all make better code and you will have a happy group supporting you and making better games.
So once you get over the Apple stuff, then you start out on your first journey, and almost the first thing you say is, what the heck am I doing. So you go to the Wiki, or you ask for member help or you watch a video by tshirt or weswog, or whomever and, then, something starts to click, you start getting it. But during this incubation time, you ask for gods on high to send you a detailed well written book, ebook, or notes scribbled on paper or rocks or sheep skin, something so you can go to a place and read what should be done.
The guys who wrote this program surely should be putting 100% effort into making that basic statement of not being a programmer to use GS, a truth. I have not become a programmer but I have become a programmer of GS, and I am bumping into place that need attention. Stability is very important, very. Its better in 8.7 but it still has a few issues, I save projects often, which is a good practice no matter what you use.
But REAL doc is the number one issue for me. I ask questions and if they fall on the good eyes of some member who knows the answer and if they feel inclined or have time I some times get an answer, but for the most part, I hunt around, tear projects apart, and dig for answers. So maybe I have become a good digger and not a programmer.
THere are many many good things about GS, but one simple issue for me is not just reading the alpha for transparency but creating an object out of the non alpha area, I hate rectangles and round things, I dont want to bitch too much but the base code needs more tools, at this point I could care less about Iadd, or I this and that, that is all Apple Hype, who knows if it is really a good idea, GS guys have a while before they need worry about that stuff, they need to give us better internal tools, with great, great, great documentation. New features are important, but there is probably a host of stuff I could do that I dont have a clue how to do, but if GS folks explained them in detail, I would be happy.
This is a massive undertaking and I applaud and give props to the GS team, but even Apple gives out good doc, you guys need to do the same. I saw you were hiring a bunch of folks, you need a doc writer who know the code or has access to the people that do.
Its not the cost of the code, 99 buxs, its getting the moneys worth based on know what it will do and what it wont do. I have begun many apps only to find out, that I was stuck and finding a way out was and is not an easy task. But then when I played more I found a way, but I am not doing this to play games, I want to make games, and other apps.
I for one dont really care about using the camera, but I DO WANT THE DAMN keyboard. At least that gives me names for high scores. Going to the web and that whole thing is a great idea and I guess you can buy that for 2K. But there is No selling doc, or explanation of how I am going to use this feature. Explain it to me, show me the power and i will pony up for the price if it is important.
Make good doc, start there, then we can all make better code and you will have a happy group supporting you and making better games.
I started work on a GameSalad book, but then I discontinued the project. I figured it would take me a month to write a good GameSalad textbook. Then I wondered how many copies would sell. I figured that I'd sell like 100 copies. So if I make like $6 per book, that's not a lot of money. I have more fun with game development. It usually takes about a 1-3 weeks to make a good game.
I also feel that the documentation available is pretty good... there are video tutorials, the wiki has some useful information and the forums are loaded with great info.
Do people really want a GameSalad Textbook? I can still restart the project.
The more they work on this program and the more they open it up to more features and capabilities the more it is going to need this.
Searching for things is not so much fun, but you are right there is a lot of info here, it just needs to be consolidated and filtered. If I had the time I would do it. But no time,
Anyone else want a GameSalad Textbook?
Seriously, and in all sincerity.
Thank **** for you!
I couldn't agree with you more. What's cool is that you're obviously one of the more successful users of this software.
Personally, I think people are getting frustrated because they want to make money and 'be successful' on the App store. When that doesn't happen, they lash out. They shift the responsibility onto the tools, and blame GameSalad for their lack of success.
I think you, and Tshirt, and a handful of others here have proven that you *can* be successful on the app store with a GameSalad game.
Yep, a GameSalad game that doesn't have iAds. Or GameCentre. OR leaderboards.
Having said that...
@Adent
Taking out a simple pause function seriously impacted my 'experience' of GameSalad. And it has done for months now.
But you all already knew that, right?
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Its cool to want a Jedi Warrior Flying car, right now, but learn what you got, and use your imagination to think of new ways to push the outside of the box around. I dont think there are many successful developers with apple, its a select group that have made a lot of money and a whole lot of folks that have made NADA, zero or less. No sales is still a waste of all the time you put in .
Many features are needed and maybe they will come, but I am not waiting for GS, I am forging ahead as best I can, and if I hit one out of the park or just a nice double, it wont be because of new features, it will be because I came up with a good APP, when the new stuff comes in, I can make it better and so on and so on. Its like saving money, if you dont save for 20 years when you get 20 years down the road you have nothing, but it you save a little every week, in 20 years you got something. Waiting for the new features is a foolish move, I have seen a lot of games with GS and frankly, naming no names, there are a lot of apps that could use some help, not in programming but design, art, sounds, logic, layout, etc etc. Get better at what you have guys. If you make garbage games Iadd or any other little ditty is not going to help a bit. Bad games are always going to be bad games, no what you used, Unity, Xciode it makes no difference. Start thinking how you can use this software today and how you can get better raise the bar, make some money and help the GS folks grow the biz. Podium mode off.
I think stability and DOCUMENTATION are the most important thing. We definitely need docs, half of the wiki entries are incomplete or terribly written and impossible to understand. I have been relying on my own brain's limited logic and the GS community to get my stuff done.
YES I want GameCentre. But gimme PAUSE, DOCS and STABILITY first.
Oh and well done to Gendai on the last update! The loading times on my game are outstanding now! THAT was a BIG thing for me...
I started out wanting everything right now... but I have decided that GameSalad is an amazing tool. I CAN MAKE GAMES, GOOD GAMES!!!! WITHOUT HAVING TO CODE!!!! And it's still in beta. Just imagine what GS will be like in a year or so!
@Gendai: if already Tshirtbooth is complaining about GameSalad, then you are deeper in the !@#$%, than you ever thought!
To be honest, I have quit using GameSalad months ago, just because of the lack of any progress in development. I rather pay for a programmer, but at least I can make the games I want.
Gendai as a company is failing to acomplish their main task. It is indefensible for a company to work so slow in such a competitive market.
How many people are there working on GameSalad? Probably one college student, who works only on weekends, when there is no party at the campus.
To be honest, if I were Apple, I already would have closed the door for GameSalad, because it absolutely fits into the new rules about third party tools being developed too slow...
Oh yeah... because they cost a lot of money.
"We believe a great product or game is created out of a great experience. GameSalad is not about features. We don't want to just add features, we want to enhance the experience."
OK, how about some food for thought regarding the GS experience:
- Creator has no alignment options
- Creator has unusable object selection handles
- Retrieving an actor's attributes requires multiple clicks into the editor
- The panes in the Creator UI revert back to default dimensions every time the view is changed
- Actors can only be arrowkey-positioned in 1 pixel increments
- It is impossible to select multiple actors
- It is impossible to group actors
These are not gaming bells and whistles, these are core editing features, no, requirements, whose omission hinders development and makes for a tedious development experience. The above list doesn't even include the inability of actors to talk to each other or read each other's attributes, nor the inability to refer to actors programmatically. I, personally, cannot understand how folks are complaining about the lack of upcoming Apple features when these basic editing necessities are not present in the environment.
"A great experience requires a stable base to build upon, which is why we're spending time on stability and reliability."
I've seen references to this again and again, and yet I still need to restart Creator every 10 minutes.
Gendai, it is clear that you're listening. My sincere wish is that you are acting upon what you hear.
Any Actor instance in a Scene can read or CONTROL any other Actor instance's attributes.
True, my mistake. I should have said programmatic references to attributes. Regardless, the issues I mentioned (as well as those mentioned by you, ChunkyPixels, and others) still stand.
...and what is tshirtbooth saying? It's something like give us Game Center now and we'll be too busy to complain. I don't think it's unreasonable. With Game Center and iAds, we can wander off and make games while Gendai Games can focus on making GameSalad better. No, that's incorrect. I'm finding success in the iTunes store with GameSalad. Commove has done well. Yet, it's currently locked into the GameSalad platform. Currently, I can't put Commove on my website for Internet Explorer / Firefox users to enjoy. I can't launch it as a PC game. I can't port it over to Android. GameSalad is mainly focused on iOS devices. So, I look to Gendai Games to see what they're doing.
...oh, OK... no Android support right now...
So, if they're going to dedicate themselves to iPhone / iPad games, then it's not unreasonable to gauge their performance based on how they release new features. Gendai Games did well with the iPad. That's why I'm surprised support for iAds and Game Center doesn't appear to be as quick.
Communication... that's the main issue. If they had said a month ago, "Dude, don't expect iAds on launch." I would have worked on a different project. Instead, we had the line "rhymes with iPad" ...which lead the community to assume that iAds is on the way.
That's not good business. Would you shop in a store that said things to you like that?
Customer: How much is this shirt?
Shopkeeper: rhymes with 'drive hollers'
Game Development is not just a hobby to me. I'm trying to make it into a success business. I realize that I might not succeed in this endeavor. I knew that going into this. Yet, I shouldn't have to fail because I couldn't figure out a supplier's rhymes. This month, I'm specifically creating a game designed around iAds and the strengths of GameSalad. Not knowing if I can launch my game bothers me.
I think you, and Tshirt, and a handful of others here have proven that you *can* be successful on the app store with a GameSalad game. You know, I was thinking about your pause problem the other day. While testing a game in GameSalad, I use a pause button... and by using this pause button in the GameSalad software, I can pause my game on my testing device. It seems like this functionality would be an ideal way to pause a game... everything stops... but then how would everything start up again if the screen is completely frozen? I'm not sure what GameSalad is doing to stop my device like that, but it's just how pause should work.
Also, this posting was behind schedule. This new information, combined with the speed at which it was delivered, suggests uncertainty with future development.