Cults develop when people become some what fanatic about the involvement with a specific item, company, person etc etc. There is a cult that looms around apple and apple is going down the same road they have gone down before. They are buying into their own cult. GS probably does not have a cult, I dont think that there are that many of us using GS, but with all the accolades and cult esoterica going on, I want to remind all that read this that this has happened before. Microsoft, good or bad kicked the snot out of Apple, Apple had to borrow money from MS to keep going. So my point, there is something coming, and if GS does not get for real, they are going to be part of the next wave of competition that is coming from the windows folks, where flash lives, where other 2d and 3d engines live and have lived for a long time, and do all the things that people are asking for, and more. This market is very crowded, the iphone market and the cult belief is that you are going to make money, once and for all to hear, see and read, Apple could care less if you make any money, they only care about apple making money. Games, and any other kind of app have about NO chance of making it to the top of any list, or to make any money. If Gendai does not get its act totally in the same place as the users want and need then they will fail.
Failure comes from lack of communication or from the powers that be talking down to its users, giving us little pieces of blah blah blah is not progress it is just air.
IF Gendai wants to be part of the real world, then get the company in gear, good doc, a real phone number to contact them, a real person who lives on this forum and answers questions, and good doc, no doc or this half assed web thing is not good. I want all the same things that everyone else wants so I wont waste time listing them, but I fear that GS is built on a bad foundation, no foundation and it all topples, hmm there is a game there in that thought.
Gendai, dialog, not a monthly newsletter, dialog, communicate, and be honest. If I know what I am getting and when, I am happy, then if I dont want to wait off I go to something else.
It is easier to keep present clients happy than it is to go get new ones.
Everything i want to see, which is most of the stuff TShirt listed above, i wouldnt call new.
Theyre basic features of the editor that should have been there from early days..... so its more maintenance, refinement and evolution of the base design tools that I think a lot of us would like to see.
There should really be some of this with every update... even if its just one or 2 refinements.
None of us are coming here to purposefully bash Gendai.
We all want things. We want this feature or that feature. We want people here on the forums giving us information and documentation on how to use each feature. We want these things and we have every right to want these things. That being said, Gendai needs to make a business decision on each of these things. Do we want to take someone off of coding the game to patrol the forums and create documentation? That will risk getting new features out. Do we want to take someone off of creating a more stable platform to implement iAds or GameCenter? That will risk having a decent project for people to use. Vice versa? What about if they found out from Apple that there are borderline issues with their engine that they have to have corrected inorder for the games to continue to be accepted to the app store? Providing that information to the general public would not be good for anyone. Everyone here will freak out, nobody will sign up, money will stop coming in and then there is no money to make the changes.
All I am trying to point out is that business decisions are not easy to make. For every decision that you make you are going to upset someone. Some decisions will make everyone upset but if they knew the reasons why they would understand, but they can't know the reasons because it would cause much more problems. This is the life in a business like Gendai. That is how my day goes. You do your best and try to do what is right for the business and the people.
Show a little trust in the people behind GameSalad. They have made a great product and honestly if they had not said a damn thing about what is coming up down the road the outcry would be half or less than what it is now. Be thankful that they are providing information about what is coming up because most places won't take that risk.
Phew... now Gendai, go make a pause button, iAds, GameCenter, in app purchases, URL query strings and the ability to post/get data from websites. I'll look for it in the morning.
OK I was just taking out the garbage to the appropriate place on the street and it hit me, not the garbage but that might be a game, what hit me is this. Everyone or most want to make some money doing this game or app thing, I know I do, my bills do not get paid on smiley faces or warm fuzzy things.
So the point, here are some generalized facts, there are 200,000 plus apps, sounds like a big number and it is, of that number, most of the game apps are total crap, or garbage, they should be taken to the appropriate place and dropped in the garbage pile. There should be a new place called horrible and crap, not worth the time, and most of the apps out in apple world would end up there. I have bought a lot of apps, more than I wanted, under the guise of seeing what to do and learning. I did learn something and it is this, if I can make a good game, and that is a big if, then I might make some money.
In a normal, physical world where the space is limited to a shelf, retailers are picky, and only want what gets supported with advertising and some level of quality for the customer, the people they sell to.
However in this digital "I DONT CARE ABOUT QUALITY" world anyone can make an app, and it seems that a lot of anyones are doing just that. Apple did say, hey no porn, no racking apps, but for the most part, other than some minor issues, all apps get approved. We have no idea how some apps get to be noticed but I watch them just like you do, and a lot of them have to be drawn out of a hat, simply because they are not very good, so no one at apple is really looking at the apps, they want more and more and more apps, they dont care one bit if they are good or bad.
So now here comes Gendai and they make a system where the number of developers can be even broader, GS is simpler than Torque or Unity or ... so, those of you who have had some measurable success on Itunes, congrats but I think that Joe from FireMaple would have done just fine if he had used any of the other systems. There must have been a reason he used GS, it felt right, or his brother is the owner of Gendai, (not) but he made a simple game, I got it, played it, laughed, got a bit pissed, and feel that the price was good and the performance is good.
Also on the way to the street corner I thought about if there are other markets where its like Itunes. And then I realized, they are all in Itunes, movies, music, tv shows, books, Apple does not care a darn bit about quality of incoming, just a percentage of incoming money, and maybe that is cool, not sure.
In a world where the app was really reviewed by Apple I suppose my apps would have followed me to the street corner with the garbage can.
I dont think Gendai makes games to publish on Itunes, I could be wrong, would not be the first time, but they make a vehicle where by they facilitate the growth of apple by making it possible for lesser programmers to make products to sell. I have/had Unity, used it for 3 days and said, right and I am going to take the time to learn this, not.
When I first got GS, I talked to a few people and they said, that GS was a toy, it was not serious, it was a litany of garbage things that are not worth saying. They were wrong, its not silly or simple, its a bitch and it requires investment, I wish all I had to do was come out of pocket 100 bucks for GS and then magically on my desk top would appear the perfect app that would be in new and noteworthy, thats what I want, but it takes a bit more than that.
I dont really know how Gendai makes money, there is no tally of developers, do they get one new person a day, or 1000 per day. That is what the development cycle is based on, incoming revenue. I have no idea but its not about what you want, or features that are missing or any of that, its about the money. Just like apple, they get 30% of the income from EVERYONE, so they make it with numbers. GS....and Gendai, how do they make money, is it with subscription. Lets see if they have 1000 developers, and they get 100 bucks, from each, that is 100,000 K of revenue. So that means that there is enough money for say 3 people. They probably have a bunch of people who help out just for the cool factor and a few cookies and soda. Or is there 100,000 GS developers, then they got some cash, in which case they might all be in Aruba have a good ole time.
MONEY... that is the bottom line, by the down home comments from Gendai, I think they have limited funds, limited developers and are doing the best they can with the money they have. Maybe we should make them a proposal, give us these features and stay timely with apple and we will give you some percentage of what we make, hmmm, say 10 percent, of what we make, they have then motivation, and a potential revenue stream, They dont have itunes as their own but they have a shot, and now we are all in the same boat.
The power in this game we are all playing is numbers.
I think from this I am not going to think anymore when I take the garbage out.
Today, I'm working on my next project... wow... it's amazing. I'm having a lot of fun with GameSalad. But unfortunately, it's not just about fun... success... it's about profit too. I see other features mentioned here, and it would be nice if Gendai Games got them, but iAds are huge. I see it as a game changer.
Some of you are doubtful about iAds. However, I've experience the difference of Advertisement based games (on the Android Market) and it was nice... real nice. Yet, there were a lot of issues to sort out. You can read some of the history here...
Naturally, I was excited when Android was released. I was looking for an upgrade to my T-Mobile Sidekick and I liked the idea of being an Android developer. In a short time, I released my book on the Android Market. I put it on sale for $2.99 and I got cursed out for it. Not only did it not sell well, someone sent me a nasty email for even thinking about charging money for it. Apparently, I’m supposed to give away my work for free.
In this tough economy, people don't want to waste money. If I didn't know me, there's like next to zero chance that I'd buy my games. Why take a chance on an unknown when there are thousands of other games in the market. But if the games were free, I might download and play them... if I was bored on the Staten Island Ferry or something like that.
I'm surprised that Gendai Games hasn't moved iAds to the highest priority. It should be in the next release. Free games = more downloads = more people seeing the GameSalad splash screen = more potential subscriptions.
Firstly, thanks for the response - I feel sometimes that people just skim past my posts and ignore them sometimes! Certainly feels like that on occasion!
Anyway, you raise some interesting points so I'll give you my opinion in a succinct manner. I'm not being rude, it's just that my time is limited right now!
EDIT - As it turned out, I ended up writing this over an hour or so - the editor I'm currently using on the DS takes two minutes to save. TWO MINUTES!!! Imagine that! And I have to save often in case it crashes! So apologies if this comes across a little disjointed! And succinct my ass!
Photics said: I see two main success stories with GameSalad... tshirtbooth and firemaplegames. I think Hunnenkoenig is right. It's a big problem for Gendai Games when one of their star players is not happy with the development progress.
...and what is tshirtbooth saying? It's something like give us Game Center now and we'll be too busy to complain. I don't think it's unreasonable. With Game Center and iAds, we can wander off and make games while Gendai Games can focus on making GameSalad better.
I'm not suggesting that it's unreasonable to want extra features, and I'd personally love to have GameCentre here right now!
But...
Tshirt is expressing a concern, while at the same time still being successful. FMG is saying 'spend the time polishing and testing your game as it is.
Honestly, so many GS games are put out that have good intentions and high expectations, and then fail to do anything.
I personally feel that FMG's idea is sound. Like I said, I'd love to have GameCentre right now, but it's certainly not stopping FMG and Tshirt from being successful. It shouldn't, therefore, stop anyone else.
Of course its inclusion *might* increase your chances. *Might* increase your sales. But again, there's no guarantees.
And I was under the impression that GameCentre wasn't ready yet? That it would roll out in the autumn (fall for our American cousins)? I'm probably wrong though!
RE: your other points about communication - I agree, communication could certainly be better. There are moves in the right direction. The big picture updates communicate to you plans for the next release and future releases.
Sometimes you won't like what they say. But they're still communicating.
The 'sounds like iPads' thing I think was a mistake, and as you mentioned, built up expectations which are unlikely to be realised as soon as people would like. Did they mention when this feature was going to be implemented?
To be fair to Gendai, it's a tricky one. If they over-promise and under-deliver, the community will go mad. Yet if they don't communicate the community gets irate anyway. It's a difficult balancing act that they haven't got quite right yet.
One crucial, overall point, I feel, is that GameSalad is designed to make games. It doesn't say on the front page 'The easiest and quickest way to make money!'
The success or otherwise of your venture, your company, is not, I'm afraid, Gendai's responsibility. It is yours (and this isn't directed at you personally, Photics, but to everyone in general!).
Gendai's business is to provide the end user (us!) with tools to publish games to the app store. GameSalad does that. People like Eastbound, Butterbean, Tshirtbooth, FMG and others have managed to make money despite the current limitations of GameSalad.
As FMG said, the rest is just 'gravy'.
This is just my opinion though, so please, if you're offended that was not my intention.
Photics said: You know, I was thinking about your pause problem the other day. While testing a game in GameSalad, I use a pause button... and by using this pause button in the GameSalad software, I can pause my game on my testing device. It seems like this functionality would be an ideal way to pause a game... everything stops... but then how would everything start up again if the screen is completely frozen? I'm not sure what GameSalad is doing to stop my device like that, but it's just how pause should work.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by GameSalad stopping your device? How do you do that? Is it just pressing pause in GS while using the gameviewer on your device? Interestingly, if you're using the viewer and just choose a game from your 'recent' list, you can send it to sleep (by pressing the sleep button). It pauses everything and restarts from where you left off automatically when it comes out of sleep! Brilliant! As everyone knows, I've harped on about Pause, and even offered solutions to the issue, on many an occasion. I did offer to write a doc, but I think Gendai have enough to go on from the responses to their response to pause! I'm not holding my breath. And honestly, I'm expecting a lot of flack if it *does* get implemented ahead of iAds and/or GameCentre.
But that's ok. I happen to think Pause is just an essential standard feature that should just be there (and, indeed, it was). Not to make more money. Just to be kinder to whoever buys my games
Anyway, thanks for reading. I know I don't share the same view as a lot of people here, but it's diversity that counts, right?
quantumsheep said: Firstly, thanks for the response - I feel sometimes that people just skim past my posts and ignore them sometimes! Certainly feels like that on occasion!
You're popular on these forums. I often read what you write. I think it's your icon that helps you stand out.
Tshirt is expressing a concern, while at the same time still being successful. FMG is saying 'spend the time polishing and testing your game as it is.
I was surprised to see tshirtbooth getting frustrated. He's made what, over $14,000? When you can almost buy a Ford Mustang from your apps, it's hard to get grumpy about GameSalad... or is it? Cult was mentioned here... we don't just develop with GameSalad. We choose it over other development suites. That means we don't like to see our team lose. GameSalad competitors are not standing still, but it does feel like GameSalad is a bit too stagnant. That's why I can understand tshirtbooth's frustration and see it as a huge warning sign for Gendai Games!
Honestly, so many GS games are put out that have good intentions and high expectations, and then fail to do anything.
I'm happy with Commove! It was featured on the iTunes store and the sales have been OK! Through tremendous effort, I managed to work around the limitations of the software and I created a unique game. I also showed that GameSalad can be used for a variety of projects... like the Photics: Toolbox.
...but such dedication and determination can only go so far.
The success or otherwise of your venture, your company, is not, I'm afraid, Gendai's responsibility. It is yours (and this isn't directed at you personally, Photics, but to everyone in general!).
you don't have to worry. I'm not finding your words offensive. I believe in honest and straightforward conversation. That's why I'm posting this. It is up to me to make my business succeed. But if GameSalad doesn't meet my game development requirements, it forces me to find other development software. Gendai Games appears to be aware of the symbiotic relationship. They seem to know that their success depends on the success of developers... as suggested by the questions in a recent GameSalad survey. They wanted to know what areas needed improvement... including things like tutorials and marketing.
That's why I see fault with the main post here. it shouldn't be that complicated to implement iAds, but it can dramatically help developers make money... and that's how success is measured around here.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by GameSalad stopping your device? How do you do that? Is it just pressing pause in GS while using the gameviewer on your device?
I preview my game on my iPod Touch, and then I click the pause button in the GameSalad softare. That stops the game on my iPod Touch.
As everyone knows, I've harped on about Pause, and even offered solutions to the issue, on many an occasion. I did offer to write a doc, but I think Gendai have enough to go on from the responses to their response to pause!
I don't think you should assume that. I used to work with an IT department. I assumed that they should just know web development and they would use common sense to figure it out. That was a bad assumption. They wanted requirement documentation and they followed it almost to the letter. It's not that the IT guys were lazy... they're just busy... really really busy. In order to prevent problems, they wanted something official.
So, while it might not be the same situation here... if you don't send documentation that they ask for, they might assume you're not as serious about it... or maybe they'll just forget about it and do something else.
But that's ok. I happen to think Pause is just an essential standard feature that should just be there (and, indeed, it was). Not to make more money. Just to be kinder to whoever buys my games
Better games = better reviews = more potential sales
The one other review for Commove complained about having to start over, even though the game doesn't need a pause. It could simply be put to sleep and awakened to where the game was before. These things are important...
...but again, that's why I think iAds are important. If I can give away the game for free, more people will download the game, which means more reviews. On Android, my games are highly rated. Even though there are one-star ratings for no good reason, things get averaged out. People are usually happier about free games, so the ratings are usually pretty good.
I wouldn't have to mess with Promo Codes either... and I hate them.
1. "I often read what you write. I think it's your icon that helps you stand out." And I thought it was my 'fancy' words :P
2. I was surprised about tshirt too!
3. My statement about games being made with good intentions and failing was not directed at you, but in general to everyone here. In fact, my own games fall under that category! It's just a fact. Otherwise, we'd all be selling lots and lots! Instead, it's a select few.
4. "But if GameSalad doesn't meet my game development requirements, it forces me to find other development software." That is always an option open to us all, for sure, and I'm glad to see you recognise that! I've certainly looked around at alternatives, but honestly, other than the pause debacle, I'm quite happy here
5. The pause stuff - good to know - thanks. It's true about the documentation, but starting a new job and concentrating on finishing Project K has really messed up the amount of free time I have. I think the basics are in the thread that addressed Pause from Gendai's point of view. I'll try and write a doc when I have some spare time, though it wasn't asked of me - I just offered thinking I'd have the time!
6. "it can dramatically help developers make money... and that's how success is measured around here." - it's certainly not how I measure success around here. Perhaps I'm in the minority?
7. I think most people's experience of putting games up for free on the app store is a deluge of one star ratings. It's not something I personally would look forward to, even though I'm thinking of making an older game free for 'promotional' reasons in the future. I hope you're right about iAds - to me, I honestly don't think it'll make much of a difference (and though I understand your reasoning and personal experience in this matter, I stick by that sentiment).
quantumsheep said: it's certainly not how I measure success around here. Perhaps I'm in the minority?
How is success measured then? ...fun? ...knowledge gained? If the objective is to have the most fun, learn new stuff or make the most friends, there are more efficient means of accomplishing that. That's not to state I don't enjoy making new friends or learning new things, but I consider that fringe benefits.
I think most people's experience of putting games up for free on the app store is a deluge of one star ratings.
I think that problem is mitigated with iOS 4, right? The rate on delete is going away, no?
6. "it can dramatically help developers make money... and that's how success is measured around here." - it's certainly not how I measure success around here. Perhaps I'm in the minority?
I think we'd all be kidding ourselves if we weren't here to either: Make a little extra money, do this as a full time job, or supplement our income and work part-time in our other careers.
It's not like.... I lost my jumprope, and my coloring books, so I think I'll go play with Gamesalad for awhile...
I'm tired of wiping ass for a living (aka: RN) and would like to be able to do this full-time.
So far, I'm able to now work part-time, but would I like to do this as my full-time career? Yes!
To comment on your measure of success... I think that anyone who gets a game into the app store, and makes a nicely polished game alone, should pat themselves on the back for getting that far. That in and of itself is a success.
However, I have to agree with Photics, that a majority of people here probably measure success with how many units have been sold.
That's why you see those threads, "published to new and noteworthy", Wow, I sold 1,000 units after getting published!, and so many people commenting on people's success... Which is 100% directly related to sales.
Unfortunately, that's how the world operates, and success is most always directly measured by how deep your pockets are.
Is it shallow? Absolutely, but unfortunately it's how the world works.
I'm sorry BB - you know I love you (don't tell Mr.BB!!!) but I don't measure it like that.
Maybe it's because I *already* do this for a living? And while I still have a job, this will never be my main source of income. It's something that I *enjoy* doing in my spare time. Because it combines music, art and ideas, all in one lovely package.
There are certain types of games that sell well on the app store. I can stop what I'm doing and make a game just like that if I wanted to.
But I don't.
I want to make games that *I* want to make. They won't have mass appeal. They won't sell well on the app store.
But goddamn it, they're MY games.
I'm going to bore you with a story of a young sheep. Twenty years ago I was in a band. Our singer was brilliant, a real showman, who wanted to please the crowd.
He wanted to do cover versions because that really got the crowd going. The rest of the band wanted to write their own stuff.
He came over to our side in the end. Because while it's great to entertain people with songs they know, it's nowhere near the feeling you get when people dance to something that you've created yourself!
I'm not allergic to money, as someone once told me. It'd be nice to make back what I spent on graphics, for example.
But it's not my key motivation.
If you judge me by your standards, I am an absolute failure. There are 14 year old kids that have made more money than me. By your standards, I should have stopped months ago and given up.
And yet here I am, day after day, excited by all the ideas in my head, and the games that will result from them!
I don't assume that everyone is like me. Please don't assume that I'm like everyone else.
tshirtbooth said: You numbers are off ... i have made almost twice that
Heh, 14,000*2 is still >14000
Although, it is more impressive to say, "Almost $28,000!" You might be making more money with GameSalad than Gendai Games themselves.
And i am getting frustrated not because of money but because im just starting to get the feeling that the guys at gamesalad are not as excited to build the project as much as we are to use it. Its starting to look like they are more worried about looking for new members then keeping old members happy.
This is what worries me. I don't see how the project is profitable for them. At $100 a year, it's not a lot of money. Although, that is the nature of this business. Twitter and Facebook seemed like frivolous ventures to me, but now they're dominate forces on the Internet. The more attention GameSalad gets, the more likely a big company like Microsoft, Google or Apple will be willing to throw a whole lot of money their way.
That's why I'm surprise the focus isn't on cross-platform support. With Android, Browser and PC support, there would likely be more attention on GameSalad. I'm not sure what the plan is for Gendai Games.
I have read almost all of the comments here now and have changed my mind over Gendai countless times. I am in the process of building my first game and have had quite a few problems, but for some reason I can not get annoyed with Gendai. They have started to build a great games engine, and as the saying goes,"rome was not built in a day".
I do have one thing to say though, and this is going to get a few people annoyed with me but I hope that a lot of you will agree.
As a community we need to put out good, quality games, you could have the best engine in the world with all the features you ever wanted, but if the gamesalad community starts to get the reputation that it is just a bunch of amateurs making a pile of rubbish our games will not sell.
90 percent of all games on GS are good, but the 10 percent that are bad my be our downfall, as a community we need harbour a spirit of professionalism.
@QS: Don't worry, you know I love ya too and you're one of my all time favorite members.
I really respect your opinion and your mission. It's refreshing to see you're not making copy-cats of other games, and you're out there doing what you want to do.
I also think it helps that you're able to do this for a living as well with your primary job.
If I had a full time job programming or creating games for a company, I'd probably be going out on a limb in creating things that are even more risky or wacky, but I don't.
So I try to meet somewhere in the middle, and create unique titles with inspiration from others.
At any rate, just having a game in the app store is a success in and of itself, and if you make some money off the side, it sweetens the deal
Everyone has varying motivations in using Gamesalad, and I'm just glad we have an awesome community of developers, pushing for more features.
That alone shows how much we want Gamesalad to succeed
hey what about people actually taking the demo games, and publishing them on itunes, WTF, that is crazy and absurd, that drags down GS, and clutters up the whole process. I like the demo games, I like to find bits of knowledge that I can use, but they are the property of Gendai and Gendai as far as I know does not prohibit people from doing this, WHY NOT. This just upsets me. Sorry.
Money is not shallow, money is not the evil force, money is money, you get it, spend it and get some more, its kinda like water, you always need more or you die. So giving money any kind of emotional or theological or any kind of issue is a waste, money is money.
Doing things for fun and no money, good, doing things and getting no money, could be bad. I dont want the money as a bag of something, I want to learn how to make games that people like and people will buy and enjoy, and then the money will take care of itself. Doing something just for the money, might work, but in most cases does not work.
So, forget the whole FOR MONEY thing.
Lets change this up and talk about what would make good games, with the tools we have, and set out together to make a difference in the Itunes store. To hell with Gendai and what they are doing, if the quit tomorrow we are all screwed but let them do what they are doing, lets us collectively figure out how to raise the bar of games for all in the effort. I dont care if you are 14 or 94, lets get it together, then we can actually talk about MONEY.
Good games, good code, good game play, hard work, and some kind of marketing could make all of us some money. How come angry birds has been in the top 10 for so long and no one hear has tried to beat them. What about a SKI BALL Game that is better than the one there, I like it when people succeed, it gives me something to copy. Yep copy, like Toyota making a copy of a Ford, and then doing better. then ford copies toyota and so on and so on, so that is why I will ask for no beg for a complete set of docs that does not make me hunt all over the damn place for an answer. Just give me the power of the tools, there is always and will always be something needed, but lets get this right, tell me how to use the power.
I drove a F1 race car here in Las Vegas, damn near killed myself, well actually I scared my self, I know how to drive cars, right, been doing it for years, but an F1 racer is no car, it is a rocket ship and you really need the book or the teacher to help. Maybe we have save a few features an F1 than no one knows how to drive but Tshirt booth, or weswog or whomever, I think the power belongs to me and I am totally unhappy with Gendai for its lack of attention to a Game Salad Bible. So there. Now I will go back to coding the program that I am not supposed to write code in....hahahahaha
vegasmike1 said: I drove a F1 race car here in Las Vegas, damn near killed myself, well actually I scared my self, I know how to drive cars, right, been doing it for years
You are my idol! How the hell did you get to do that? I'd LOVE to pilot an F1 car if I could fit in the cockpit...
I don't know exactly. I usually look at overall sales for the day. While the surge seems to have dissipated, I was getting 15-40 sales per day for about a week and a half. On average of 20 sales per day, for 10 days, at tier 2, that's like $280. It was mostly iPad sales.
So, if I had done nothing, would I have more money? Yes. I spent over $1000 on a Mac Mini, GameSalad, iPod Touch and an Apple Developer license. Yet, there is clear growth. With each GameSalad project I get a little bit better...
Commove, was better than the Photics: Toolbox, which was better than Photics: Fireball, which was better than Photics: Revisions - Course Correction. The goal is to turn this into a business that generates a great salary for me. I'm building a library of games. Once GameSalad gets their web plug-in to have improved cross-platform support... or I simply use brute force to port my games into Flash... poof... Photics.com can become the next miniclip.
It's like my tomatoes. They started so small. I thought that they would die in the cold weather. I kept watering them and I tried to give them enough sunlight. Today, the plants are huge. In a few more weeks I should lots and lots of tomatoes. It's the same with GameSalad... I'm growing a gaming business.
Polygram It was not so hard to get in the car, it was much worse getting out every muscle in the body was constrained....hmmm feature but in x y and zed.
To Phoitcs, building a business like you are doing, all I can say is good on ya. But it would be nice to know how one could water the tomatoes, and nurture them. It seems like a hit or miss thing with games going to new and noteworthy. Is there really apple staff looking at games or do they have some other nifty math model to magically decide that this or that app should be featured. They get so many submissions, do they actually review them and then in a room full of cubicles, some apple app reviewer stands up and says, I GOT ONE. I dont know why apple makes it a mystery. My apps may never be featured, so be it but it would be a good thing to know what really happens behind the apple green door of review.....
the image of that in my mind makes we want to become a droid developer. I think all apps, no matter what should be on NEW for one week, then its off, and if it gets purchased or people like it, it goes to noteworthy then if it hits a sales number say 1000 then it gets to whats hot. As for what the jumping reviewers are playing frankly I dont care what they are playing, after all they could not do to much playing with all that jumping and screaming, imagine what havoc that must wreck on the cubicles, or maybe they are all in a huge cafeteria like room with rows of tables and when they get one they dance on the table and then turn into zombies who eat each other and become doodles of their former selves, who over time jump, blast and shoot their way back into the real world and become once again the people that they were, only to start all over again. Ah yes, the room of apple shifters, and they get paid, 32 cents per hour for the right to be there. Oh no I forgot , apple keeps 30% of that so they get like 24 or close but must be checked for encryption and have to have a rating based on the ability of that individual to morph, 4+ is for those who just really cant do much, (majority) 9+ for those who can do the little bit faster than the 4+ but still not good enough to make a difference, 12+ sort of like 4+ but does more cause he/she has the dirty bit rating. Then it goes on, internally rating up to 100+ which is for those reviewers who can morph in .5 seconds, get naked, have sex with a coke machine, take 3 digital images of having sex and then pasting it on the itunes wall of shame. I gotta go have a cup of coffee....
Comments
Failure comes from lack of communication or from the powers that be talking down to its users, giving us little pieces of blah blah blah is not progress it is just air.
IF Gendai wants to be part of the real world, then get the company in gear, good doc, a real phone number to contact them, a real person who lives on this forum and answers questions, and good doc, no doc or this half assed web thing is not good. I want all the same things that everyone else wants so I wont waste time listing them, but I fear that GS is built on a bad foundation, no foundation and it all topples, hmm there is a game there in that thought.
Gendai, dialog, not a monthly newsletter, dialog, communicate, and be honest. If I know what I am getting and when, I am happy, then if I dont want to wait off I go to something else.
It is easier to keep present clients happy than it is to go get new ones.
Everything i want to see, which is most of the stuff TShirt listed above, i wouldnt call new.
Theyre basic features of the editor that should have been there from early days..... so its more maintenance, refinement and evolution of the base design tools that I think a lot of us would like to see.
There should really be some of this with every update... even if its just one or 2 refinements.
None of us are coming here to purposefully bash Gendai.
All I am trying to point out is that business decisions are not easy to make. For every decision that you make you are going to upset someone. Some decisions will make everyone upset but if they knew the reasons why they would understand, but they can't know the reasons because it would cause much more problems. This is the life in a business like Gendai. That is how my day goes. You do your best and try to do what is right for the business and the people.
Show a little trust in the people behind GameSalad. They have made a great product and honestly if they had not said a damn thing about what is coming up down the road the outcry would be half or less than what it is now. Be thankful that they are providing information about what is coming up because most places won't take that risk.
Phew... now Gendai, go make a pause button, iAds, GameCenter, in app purchases, URL query strings and the ability to post/get data from websites. I'll look for it in the morning.
So the point, here are some generalized facts, there are 200,000 plus apps, sounds like a big number and it is, of that number, most of the game apps are total crap, or garbage, they should be taken to the appropriate place and dropped in the garbage pile. There should be a new place called horrible and crap, not worth the time, and most of the apps out in apple world would end up there. I have bought a lot of apps, more than I wanted, under the guise of seeing what to do and learning. I did learn something and it is this, if I can make a good game, and that is a big if, then I might make some money.
In a normal, physical world where the space is limited to a shelf, retailers are picky, and only want what gets supported with advertising and some level of quality for the customer, the people they sell to.
However in this digital "I DONT CARE ABOUT QUALITY" world anyone can make an app, and it seems that a lot of anyones are doing just that. Apple did say, hey no porn, no racking apps, but for the most part, other than some minor issues, all apps get approved. We have no idea how some apps get to be noticed but I watch them just like you do, and a lot of them have to be drawn out of a hat, simply because they are not very good, so no one at apple is really looking at the apps, they want more and more and more apps, they dont care one bit if they are good or bad.
So now here comes Gendai and they make a system where the number of developers can be even broader, GS is simpler than Torque or Unity or ... so, those of you who have had some measurable success on Itunes, congrats but I think that Joe from FireMaple would have done just fine if he had used any of the other systems. There must have been a reason he used GS, it felt right, or his brother is the owner of Gendai, (not) but he made a simple game, I got it, played it, laughed, got a bit pissed, and feel that the price was good and the performance is good.
Also on the way to the street corner I thought about if there are other markets where its like Itunes. And then I realized, they are all in Itunes, movies, music, tv shows, books, Apple does not care a darn bit about quality of incoming, just a percentage of incoming money, and maybe that is cool, not sure.
In a world where the app was really reviewed by Apple I suppose my apps would have followed me to the street corner with the garbage can.
I dont think Gendai makes games to publish on Itunes, I could be wrong, would not be the first time, but they make a vehicle where by they facilitate the growth of apple by making it possible for lesser programmers to make products to sell. I have/had Unity, used it for 3 days and said, right and I am going to take the time to learn this, not.
When I first got GS, I talked to a few people and they said, that GS was a toy, it was not serious, it was a litany of garbage things that are not worth saying. They were wrong, its not silly or simple, its a bitch and it requires investment, I wish all I had to do was come out of pocket 100 bucks for GS and then magically on my desk top would appear the perfect app that would be in new and noteworthy, thats what I want, but it takes a bit more than that.
I dont really know how Gendai makes money, there is no tally of developers, do they get one new person a day, or 1000 per day. That is what the development cycle is based on, incoming revenue. I have no idea but its not about what you want, or features that are missing or any of that, its about the money. Just like apple, they get 30% of the income from EVERYONE, so they make it with numbers. GS....and Gendai, how do they make money, is it with subscription. Lets see if they have 1000 developers, and they get 100 bucks, from each, that is 100,000 K of revenue. So that means that there is enough money for say 3 people. They probably have a bunch of people who help out just for the cool factor and a few cookies and soda. Or is there 100,000 GS developers, then they got some cash, in which case they might all be in Aruba have a good ole time.
MONEY... that is the bottom line, by the down home comments from Gendai, I think they have limited funds, limited developers and are doing the best they can with the money they have. Maybe we should make them a proposal, give us these features and stay timely with apple and we will give you some percentage of what we make, hmmm, say 10 percent, of what we make, they have then motivation, and a potential revenue stream, They dont have itunes as their own but they have a shot, and now we are all in the same boat.
The power in this game we are all playing is numbers.
I think from this I am not going to think anymore when I take the garbage out.
Today, I'm working on my next project... wow... it's amazing. I'm having a lot of fun with GameSalad. But unfortunately, it's not just about fun... success... it's about profit too. I see other features mentioned here, and it would be nice if Gendai Games got them, but iAds are huge. I see it as a game changer.
Some of you are doubtful about iAds. However, I've experience the difference of Advertisement based games (on the Android Market) and it was nice... real nice. Yet, there were a lot of issues to sort out. You can read some of the history here...
http://photics.com/a-warning-for-android-developers-that-use-adsense-for-content
Here's a quote from the article... In this tough economy, people don't want to waste money. If I didn't know me, there's like next to zero chance that I'd buy my games. Why take a chance on an unknown when there are thousands of other games in the market. But if the games were free, I might download and play them... if I was bored on the Staten Island Ferry or something like that.
I'm surprised that Gendai Games hasn't moved iAds to the highest priority. It should be in the next release. Free games = more downloads = more people seeing the GameSalad splash screen = more potential subscriptions.
Anyway, you raise some interesting points so I'll give you my opinion in a succinct manner. I'm not being rude, it's just that my time is limited right now!
EDIT - As it turned out, I ended up writing this over an hour or so - the editor I'm currently using on the DS takes two minutes to save. TWO MINUTES!!! Imagine that! And I have to save often in case it crashes! So apologies if this comes across a little disjointed! And succinct my ass!
But...
Tshirt is expressing a concern, while at the same time still being successful. FMG is saying 'spend the time polishing and testing your game as it is.
Honestly, so many GS games are put out that have good intentions and high expectations, and then fail to do anything.
I personally feel that FMG's idea is sound. Like I said, I'd love to have GameCentre right now, but it's certainly not stopping FMG and Tshirt from being successful. It shouldn't, therefore, stop anyone else.
Of course its inclusion *might* increase your chances. *Might* increase your sales. But again, there's no guarantees.
And I was under the impression that GameCentre wasn't ready yet? That it would roll out in the autumn (fall for our American cousins)? I'm probably wrong though!
RE: your other points about communication - I agree, communication could certainly be better. There are moves in the right direction. The big picture updates communicate to you plans for the next release and future releases.
Sometimes you won't like what they say. But they're still communicating.
The 'sounds like iPads' thing I think was a mistake, and as you mentioned, built up expectations which are unlikely to be realised as soon as people would like. Did they mention when this feature was going to be implemented?
To be fair to Gendai, it's a tricky one. If they over-promise and under-deliver, the community will go mad. Yet if they don't communicate the community gets irate anyway. It's a difficult balancing act that they haven't got quite right yet.
One crucial, overall point, I feel, is that GameSalad is designed to make games. It doesn't say on the front page 'The easiest and quickest way to make money!'
The success or otherwise of your venture, your company, is not, I'm afraid, Gendai's responsibility. It is yours (and this isn't directed at you personally, Photics, but to everyone in general!).
Gendai's business is to provide the end user (us!) with tools to publish games to the app store. GameSalad does that. People like Eastbound, Butterbean, Tshirtbooth, FMG and others have managed to make money despite the current limitations of GameSalad.
As FMG said, the rest is just 'gravy'.
This is just my opinion though, so please, if you're offended that was not my intention. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by GameSalad stopping your device? How do you do that? Is it just pressing pause in GS while using the gameviewer on your device?
Interestingly, if you're using the viewer and just choose a game from your 'recent' list, you can send it to sleep (by pressing the sleep button). It pauses everything and restarts from where you left off automatically when it comes out of sleep! Brilliant!
As everyone knows, I've harped on about Pause, and even offered solutions to the issue, on many an occasion. I did offer to write a doc, but I think Gendai have enough to go on from the responses to their response to pause!
I'm not holding my breath. And honestly, I'm expecting a lot of flack if it *does* get implemented ahead of iAds and/or GameCentre.
But that's ok. I happen to think Pause is just an essential standard feature that should just be there (and, indeed, it was). Not to make more money. Just to be kinder to whoever buys my games
Anyway, thanks for reading. I know I don't share the same view as a lot of people here, but it's diversity that counts, right?
/runs
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
...but such dedication and determination can only go so far. you don't have to worry. I'm not finding your words offensive. I believe in honest and straightforward conversation. That's why I'm posting this. It is up to me to make my business succeed. But if GameSalad doesn't meet my game development requirements, it forces me to find other development software. Gendai Games appears to be aware of the symbiotic relationship. They seem to know that their success depends on the success of developers... as suggested by the questions in a recent GameSalad survey. They wanted to know what areas needed improvement... including things like tutorials and marketing.
That's why I see fault with the main post here. it shouldn't be that complicated to implement iAds, but it can dramatically help developers make money... and that's how success is measured around here. I preview my game on my iPod Touch, and then I click the pause button in the GameSalad softare. That stops the game on my iPod Touch. I don't think you should assume that. I used to work with an IT department. I assumed that they should just know web development and they would use common sense to figure it out. That was a bad assumption. They wanted requirement documentation and they followed it almost to the letter. It's not that the IT guys were lazy... they're just busy... really really busy. In order to prevent problems, they wanted something official.
So, while it might not be the same situation here... if you don't send documentation that they ask for, they might assume you're not as serious about it... or maybe they'll just forget about it and do something else. Better games = better reviews = more potential sales
The one other review for Commove complained about having to start over, even though the game doesn't need a pause. It could simply be put to sleep and awakened to where the game was before. These things are important...
...but again, that's why I think iAds are important. If I can give away the game for free, more people will download the game, which means more reviews. On Android, my games are highly rated. Even though there are one-star ratings for no good reason, things get averaged out. People are usually happier about free games, so the ratings are usually pretty good.
I wouldn't have to mess with Promo Codes either... and I hate them.
some quick points:
1. "I often read what you write. I think it's your icon that helps you stand out." And I thought it was my 'fancy' words :P
2. I was surprised about tshirt too!
3. My statement about games being made with good intentions and failing was not directed at you, but in general to everyone here. In fact, my own games fall under that category! It's just a fact. Otherwise, we'd all be selling lots and lots! Instead, it's a select few.
4. "But if GameSalad doesn't meet my game development requirements, it forces me to find other development software." That is always an option open to us all, for sure, and I'm glad to see you recognise that! I've certainly looked around at alternatives, but honestly, other than the pause debacle, I'm quite happy here
5. The pause stuff - good to know - thanks. It's true about the documentation, but starting a new job and concentrating on finishing Project K has really messed up the amount of free time I have. I think the basics are in the thread that addressed Pause from Gendai's point of view. I'll try and write a doc when I have some spare time, though it wasn't asked of me - I just offered thinking I'd have the time!
6. "it can dramatically help developers make money... and that's how success is measured around here." - it's certainly not how I measure success around here. Perhaps I'm in the minority?
7. I think most people's experience of putting games up for free on the app store is a deluge of one star ratings. It's not something I personally would look forward to, even though I'm thinking of making an older game free for 'promotional' reasons in the future. I hope you're right about iAds - to me, I honestly don't think it'll make much of a difference (and though I understand your reasoning and personal experience in this matter, I stick by that sentiment).
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
It's not like.... I lost my jumprope, and my coloring books, so I think I'll go play with Gamesalad for awhile...
I'm tired of wiping ass for a living (aka: RN) and would like to be able to do this full-time.
So far, I'm able to now work part-time, but would I like to do this as my full-time career? Yes!
To comment on your measure of success... I think that anyone who gets a game into the app store, and makes a nicely polished game alone, should pat themselves on the back for getting that far. That in and of itself is a success.
However, I have to agree with Photics, that a majority of people here probably measure success with how many units have been sold.
That's why you see those threads, "published to new and noteworthy", Wow, I sold 1,000 units after getting published!, and so many people commenting on people's success... Which is 100% directly related to sales.
Unfortunately, that's how the world operates, and success is most always directly measured by how deep your pockets are.
Is it shallow? Absolutely, but unfortunately it's how the world works.
Maybe it's because I *already* do this for a living? And while I still have a job, this will never be my main source of income. It's something that I *enjoy* doing in my spare time. Because it combines music, art and ideas, all in one lovely package.
There are certain types of games that sell well on the app store. I can stop what I'm doing and make a game just like that if I wanted to.
But I don't.
I want to make games that *I* want to make. They won't have mass appeal. They won't sell well on the app store.
But goddamn it, they're MY games.
I'm going to bore you with a story of a young sheep. Twenty years ago I was in a band. Our singer was brilliant, a real showman, who wanted to please the crowd.
He wanted to do cover versions because that really got the crowd going. The rest of the band wanted to write their own stuff.
He came over to our side in the end. Because while it's great to entertain people with songs they know, it's nowhere near the feeling you get when people dance to something that you've created yourself!
I'm not allergic to money, as someone once told me. It'd be nice to make back what I spent on graphics, for example.
But it's not my key motivation.
If you judge me by your standards, I am an absolute failure. There are 14 year old kids that have made more money than me. By your standards, I should have stopped months ago and given up.
And yet here I am, day after day, excited by all the ideas in my head, and the games that will result from them!
I don't assume that everyone is like me. Please don't assume that I'm like everyone else.
Cheers!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Although, it is more impressive to say, "Almost $28,000!" You might be making more money with GameSalad than Gendai Games themselves. This is what worries me. I don't see how the project is profitable for them. At $100 a year, it's not a lot of money. Although, that is the nature of this business. Twitter and Facebook seemed like frivolous ventures to me, but now they're dominate forces on the Internet. The more attention GameSalad gets, the more likely a big company like Microsoft, Google or Apple will be willing to throw a whole lot of money their way.
That's why I'm surprise the focus isn't on cross-platform support. With Android, Browser and PC support, there would likely be more attention on GameSalad. I'm not sure what the plan is for Gendai Games.
...and no one else wants a GameSalad Textbook?!
I do have one thing to say though, and this is going to get a few people annoyed with me but I hope that a lot of you will agree.
As a community we need to put out good, quality games, you could have the best engine in the world with all the features you ever wanted, but if the gamesalad community starts to get the reputation that it is just a bunch of amateurs making a pile of rubbish our games will not sell.
90 percent of all games on GS are good, but the 10 percent that are bad my be our downfall, as a community we need harbour a spirit of professionalism.
I really respect your opinion and your mission. It's refreshing to see you're not making copy-cats of other games, and you're out there doing what you want to do.
I also think it helps that you're able to do this for a living as well with your primary job.
If I had a full time job programming or creating games for a company, I'd probably be going out on a limb in creating things that are even more risky or wacky, but I don't.
So I try to meet somewhere in the middle, and create unique titles with inspiration from others.
At any rate, just having a game in the app store is a success in and of itself, and if you make some money off the side, it sweetens the deal
Everyone has varying motivations in using Gamesalad, and I'm just glad we have an awesome community of developers, pushing for more features.
That alone shows how much we want Gamesalad to succeed
Except that my ideas aren't exactly 'whacky'. They're mostly shooters
I'm sure you'll like 'em!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Money is not shallow, money is not the evil force, money is money, you get it, spend it and get some more, its kinda like water, you always need more or you die. So giving money any kind of emotional or theological or any kind of issue is a waste, money is money.
Doing things for fun and no money, good, doing things and getting no money, could be bad. I dont want the money as a bag of something, I want to learn how to make games that people like and people will buy and enjoy, and then the money will take care of itself. Doing something just for the money, might work, but in most cases does not work.
So, forget the whole FOR MONEY thing.
Lets change this up and talk about what would make good games, with the tools we have, and set out together to make a difference in the Itunes store. To hell with Gendai and what they are doing, if the quit tomorrow we are all screwed but let them do what they are doing, lets us collectively figure out how to raise the bar of games for all in the effort. I dont care if you are 14 or 94, lets get it together, then we can actually talk about MONEY.
Good games, good code, good game play, hard work, and some kind of marketing could make all of us some money. How come angry birds has been in the top 10 for so long and no one hear has tried to beat them. What about a SKI BALL Game that is better than the one there, I like it when people succeed, it gives me something to copy. Yep copy, like Toyota making a copy of a Ford, and then doing better. then ford copies toyota and so on and so on, so that is why I will ask for no beg for a complete set of docs that does not make me hunt all over the damn place for an answer. Just give me the power of the tools, there is always and will always be something needed, but lets get this right, tell me how to use the power.
I drove a F1 race car here in Las Vegas, damn near killed myself, well actually I scared my self, I know how to drive cars, right, been doing it for years, but an F1 racer is no car, it is a rocket ship and you really need the book or the teacher to help. Maybe we have save a few features an F1 than no one knows how to drive but Tshirt booth, or weswog or whomever, I think the power belongs to me and I am totally unhappy with Gendai for its lack of attention to a Game Salad Bible. So there. Now I will go back to coding the program that I am not supposed to write code in....hahahahaha
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Yesterday, they approved my updates for the iPhone & iPad versions of Commove.
So, if I had done nothing, would I have more money? Yes. I spent over $1000 on a Mac Mini, GameSalad, iPod Touch and an Apple Developer license. Yet, there is clear growth. With each GameSalad project I get a little bit better...
Commove, was better than the Photics: Toolbox, which was better than Photics: Fireball, which was better than Photics: Revisions - Course Correction. The goal is to turn this into a business that generates a great salary for me. I'm building a library of games. Once GameSalad gets their web plug-in to have improved cross-platform support... or I simply use brute force to port my games into Flash... poof... Photics.com can become the next miniclip.
It's like my tomatoes. They started so small. I thought that they would die in the cold weather. I kept watering them and I tried to give them enough sunlight. Today, the plants are huge. In a few more weeks I should lots and lots of tomatoes. It's the same with GameSalad... I'm growing a gaming business.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
*puts on some Barry White and approaches QS slowly and sexily... with a rope...*
:O
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
To Phoitcs, building a business like you are doing, all I can say is good on ya. But it would be nice to know how one could water the tomatoes, and nurture them. It seems like a hit or miss thing with games going to new and noteworthy. Is there really apple staff looking at games or do they have some other nifty math model to magically decide that this or that app should be featured. They get so many submissions, do they actually review them and then in a room full of cubicles, some apple app reviewer stands up and says, I GOT ONE. I dont know why apple makes it a mystery. My apps may never be featured, so be it but it would be a good thing to know what really happens behind the apple green door of review.....
drive on
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I gotta go have a cup of coffee....