Maybe it’s just me being wrapped up in game logic a lot of the time now (thanks to GS!), but I must be honest that when I saw some of the tutorials, I though: “is that really it?”
It didn’t come across as much more complex than GameSalad. Sometimes it was even more straightforward. Shocker! Yes, the workflow is different and will need getting used to, but in all honesty, I felt that if I gave some time to getting used to the new workflow, I could probably make quick prototypes almost as fast as in GS.
And here’s the kicker: once you get into more complex parts of the project and GS bugs kick in, it might be actually faster to use another tool, rather than spending hours battling the quirks of GS and finding workaround solutions.
@pHghost said:
And here’s the kicker: once you get into more complex parts of the project and GS bugs kick in, it might be actually faster to use another tool, rather than spending hours battling the quirks of GS and finding workaround solutions.
...yep, that and running smack into a brick wall after brick wall, waiting for fixes that sometimes never come, and wasting MONTHS of your time unable to get past them. So I agree, THAT is the reason why it's almost certainly easier to compete with GS's prototyping and dev speed - if something just WORKS, then it's obviously (long-term) just as quick, if not quicker, to develop on another system.
...and I have to admit, the latest 'fixed' version scares the HELL out of me - if this is a fix for something else, but breaks LOTS of stuff, this really is looking like a 'one step forwards, 5 steps back' type thing.
I'm wondering if the ability to reliably maintain this product is even here anymore. With the best will in the world on Adent's behalf, the few (ie. can count on one hand) times that a fix has appeared recently, it's been accompanied by several all-new MASSIVE engine and/or publishing breaking bugs, and a weeks/months-long saga to get the original, PLUS the new bugs, squashed.
As @Socks mentions, yep, I'm one of the more 'get it off your chest, and out there / make people aware' vocal forumites, and for every one of me, I'm guessing there are many, many more with neither the time nor inclination to start a thread about it, but GS can delude themselves all they want over what the actual figures for leavers are, until the (reduced) subs cash comes in, as is their way.
The forum sounds a good idea, especially in light of the great suggestions from others about highlighting differences / how-to's from GS to other platforms - I reckon that could become a great knowledge base if enough tips are shared over time? - although all things considered, at least (for now) this forum is not suffering from petty, dictatorial moderation like in the bad old days - one improvement at least, but perhaps more down to workloads than policy....
PS - I'm genuinely sorry to see that it's affected you so badly too @pHghost , and I have to say, @Armelline, you're a staunch supporter of GS, but looking at your recent posts, this is obviously (and understandably) immensely frustrating to you too.
I just hope they get their **** together, as another mentioned, before they drown in it.
(PS - Sorry guys, not felt like posting for a couple of days as feeling even more negative due to the even more broken state of GS that I'm reading about, so I've only just skimmed through the latest posts here - I'm now up to date again, but with even more fire in my belly... )
@pHghost
And here’s the kicker: once you get into more complex parts of the project and GS bugs kick in, it might be actually faster to use another tool, rather than spending hours battling the quirks of GS and finding workaround solutions.
That’s probably true!! Most of my games are simple (matching brain capacity). So GS is a good fit for me. I enjoy learning so that part is fun. I’m an old dog. That part is harder. I actually prefer GS.
Knowing GS logic is helping a lot.
But Im still hoping the online tool comes around.....
I think I'm one of those long time users of GameSalad, that @Socks alluded to, thats all but given up on GS, and rarely posts on the forums anymore.
It was a really hard decision, and one that seriously tugged at my heart strings, but in the end, I just had to stop torturing myself and move to a development environment that had a real world future, and that I wasn't always having to bitch about.
I moved to Unity, learnt C# and now, a year later feel more than confident that I can create anything i could do using GS, and so much more... all without the regular drama, and about turns that the developers of the game engine would regularly throw into the mix.
Game development can be hard enough as it is, you don't need to be a hostage to the development environment, or more to the point, the company fucking it up all the time.
For some context, I used GameSalad for over 5 years, originally choosing it over Unity and many other engines, due to its "no coding" required. With a background as a games artist, GS appealed to me, and for the first couple of years actually fit my requirements really well. Then, it all started going off the rails, with the company regularly deciding to go off and start developing new publishing systems or game engines, rather than just properly supporting and updating the mostly working core engine that they already had, and that thousands of developers were already using.
Lie after lie, broken version after broken version, and a base engine that was quickly falling behind in usability... in the end, was just too much.
It was a hard decision to make, I had a stack of published games, and an even bigger pile of half finished games built in GS... with a handful of almost complete games, some that were well into 6 months of development time, all of which, I've pretty much had to write off.
But, a year later, and I absolutely know I made the right decision. I no longer feel that I'm being held hostage, and know that the tool I now work with is very well supported, has a much wider range of platforms I can publish to, does NOT require me to rely on a server I have no control over to create my builds, and, above all, is an industry standard tool, with real job potential.
For anyone doing this as a business or career, no matter how small, I strongly urge you to ditch GameSalad, even if it means putting current projects on hold... and learn either Unity or GameMaker instead.
If GameSalad eventually fix everything, then cool... you can always come back and finish off your project, but if they don't, do you really want to spend the next year holding out for it, only to be disappointed and demoralised. Use that time better, and learn something new, and build and enhance your skillset with something that has a real future... and maybe, a year down the line, when GS still hasn't fixed its gamestopping bugs, you'll potentially be able to build a better version of your game in your new engine.
I spent years arguing with GS, hoping that they would see the light, and put their resources into the engine. They never did... year after year of folly and misuse of resources have led to where it is now.
The webtool has NO future as a professional game development tool..it never has. They've admitted to that well over a year ago, and is aimed to be a cut down version of the engine, that basically just covers what is required by schools. Even if it were to ever reach parity with the current desktop version, users will still forever be at the mercy of the server side builds... which, as is currently being proven, is prone to all manner of issues.
So yup... @Japster and anyone else who is planning on doing game development seriously, just bite the bullet, and make the move to a different engine. You'll learn so much more, and improve your skillset... coding is actually a lot easier and more fun than people realise. Stop holding yourself back, but more to the point, stop letting someone else hold you back.
GameSalad started out with immense potential... but its sadly been driven into the dirt.
Across the board all the people that have helped me learn GS over the years, have been leaving. Those that are steadfast and trying to hold the course are getting beaten back with a lack of responses to their problems!
I say again wow, but i'm not sure how many wows i have left...
PhilipCCEncounter Bay, South AustraliaMemberPosts: 1,390
@smurfted said:
I really don't want to but i might have to agree.
Across the board all the people that have helped me learn GS over the years, have been leaving. Those that are steadfast and trying to hold the course are getting beaten back with a lack of responses to their problems!
I say again wow, but i'm not sure how many wows i have left...
I'm now looking at other solutions (not that I wanted to), but really, it's now beyond a joke - SICK of putting my life and ambitions on hold while yet another ignored major issue occurs / new bunch of bugs appear.
@Japster the more people download my game, the more people complain about the ducking and jumping not working.
Its already affecting my downloads. 48 people dowloaded the game and 22 already uninstalled it. Thats crazy. Almost half.
If they are not going to fix this, I am just like you, screwed. Next to this problem, I have a problem of the ads not working properly and causing my buttons to not change scenes. Or the game just freezes.
Contacted Chartboost support and they are really helpful and caring. Wished GS was this way.
GS says they will look into it and send it to the dev team, so I hope it gets fixed for all of us. But as someone else said, this is what they always do and nothing will get fixed. Hope not.
@Zwire said:
Next to this problem, I have a problem of the ads not working properly and causing my buttons to not change scenes. Or the game just freezes.
Back in june 2016 , they couldnt reproduce the issue , couple of member had the same problem. On ios some ads don't pop up and on android the change scene doesn't work , but not all the time , it happens every now and then. We had a little talk via the blue bubble , but unfortunately they couldn't reproduce the issue , it was right after they updated chartboost sdk , this was the last message i got regarding the issue.
83 weeks later still not fixed but hopefully they will look into it after couple of years, do report the bug if you really want it fixed , cause they cant fix anything without them nice reports.
@Icebox said:
Back in june 2016 , they couldnt reproduce the issue , couple of member had the same problem. On ios some ads don't pop up and on android the change scene doesn't work , but not all the time , it happens every now and then. We had a little talk via the blue bubble . . .
This is exactly what I mean when I say the 'blue bubble' is a really senseless approach to dealing with issues - here we have Zwire bringing up an issue that was discussed more than a year and a half ago, but he's not to know that as the conversation was had in secret, the blue bubble really defeats the whole idea of a public forum, I can't imagine a better way to stymie the flow of information, for all I know a number of issues I've had with GameSalad were discussed at length months ago, through the blue button, maybe some possible workarounds were discussed, maybe even some solutions were found, but - like Zwire - how would I, or anyone, know about any of this when it's all conducted in secret ?
I know I'm beating a dead horse here and I've gone on before about the blue button, but it just strikes me as such a purposeless move, and I suspect something that is helping kill off the forum.
@Icebox Thats really interesting. Thought nobody experienced the same issue cause nobody reacted on my thread a couple of days ago.
Its exactly as you had in 2016. It happens random and I cant reproduce it at will. Only when I play for minutes it will happen. Am afraid GS just say cant reproduce and do s@#t about it.
How on earth can I advertise my game like this?
@Icebox The only reason they implemented the blue button is for their ease only. With the blue button they receive complaints and bugs directly without having to read every thread every day on the forum.
Dont even think for a minute they want what is best for us. They do what is easiest and best for them.
PhilipCCEncounter Bay, South AustraliaMemberPosts: 1,390
edited January 2018
@Socks said:
... how would I, or anyone, know about any of this when it's all conducted in secret ?
That's how our governments handle everything... they use the blue button to communicate, domestically and internationally.
Don't you think Trump has got a blue button?
But the bigger problem is that he has a red one too!
@Zwire said: @Japster the more people download my game, the more people complain about the ducking and jumping not working.
Its already affecting my downloads. 48 people dowloaded the game and 22 already uninstalled it. Thats crazy. Almost half.
If they are not going to fix this, I am just like you, screwed. Next to this problem, I have a problem of the ads not working properly and causing my buttons to not change scenes. Or the game just freezes.
Contacted Chartboost support and they are really helpful and caring. Wished GS was this way.
GS says they will look into it and send it to the dev team, so I hope it gets fixed for all of us. But as someone else said, this is what they always do and nothing will get fixed. Hope not.
@Zwire , I'm sorry to hear this mate, and it's why there's no WAY I'm releasing my game until I'm 100% sure that this issue is resolved.. :frowning:
On the PLUS side, Alex / ForumNinja responded to my January 3rd Blue Button query yesterday, so in the interests of updating you, it looks like they are aware of some things and working on them:-
Alex
We've had a few bugs affecting a lot of people recently.
Publishing servers being broken/hanging on generation: Should be fixed as of over the weekend. I was able to generate fine this morning.
Creator being unusable for people on High Sierra: Should be fixed with the latest release (1.25.85), though I'm hearing that there's new issues that are cropping up in it.
In App Purchases are stuck processing: I'm currently looking into reproducing this.
Left side of iPhones not always registering taps: I brought this up to the team again to try and get them to look into it.
Japster
Alex, thank you for getting back to me, I do appreciate it, and the breakdown of where we currently stand.
The only thing I'd add to that is that if your issue is ONLY with taps on the left hand side of the screen, then it's either a different issue to what most of us (other than perhaps ZWire) are experiencing, or only partially manifesting itself on your test devices? - I can categorically state that I have the problem on ALL edges, if you check my post about it, you'll see that there's basically only a smaller (maybe 4/5th's of the size of the screen) area, centralised, that registers taps consistently and properly, without having to hold down for 1/2 second or so?
So just to clarify, is THIS ^^^ issue also being looked at please? - This one (although possibly related to the one you mention) is my current (3rd, I might add) showstopper bug preventing my game's release yet again I'm afraid....
@Zwire said: @Japster the more people download my game, the more people complain about the ducking and jumping not working.
Its already affecting my downloads. 48 people dowloaded the game and 22 already uninstalled it. Thats crazy. Almost half.
If they are not going to fix this, I am just like you, screwed. Next to this problem, I have a problem of the ads not working properly and causing my buttons to not change scenes. Or the game just freezes.
Contacted Chartboost support and they are really helpful and caring. Wished GS was this way.
GS says they will look into it and send it to the dev team, so I hope it gets fixed for all of us. But as someone else said, this is what they always do and nothing will get fixed. Hope not.
@Zwire , I'm sorry to hear this mate, and it's why there's no WAY I'm releasing my game until I'm 100% sure that this issue is resolved.. :frowning:
On the PLUS side, Alex / ForumNinja responded to my January 3rd Blue Button query yesterday, so in the interests of updating you, it looks like they are aware of some things and working on them:-
Alex
We've had a few bugs effecting a lot of people recently.
Publishing servers being broken/hanging on generation: Should be fixed as of over the weekend. I was able to generate fine this morning.
Creator being unusable for people on High Sierra: Should be fixed with the latest release (1.25.85), though I'm hearing that there's new issues that are cropping up in it.
In App Purchases are stuck processing: I'm currently looking into reproducing this.
Left side of iPhones not always registering taps: I brought this up to the team again to try and get them to look into it.
Japster
Alex, thank you for getting back to me, I do appreciate it, and the breakdown of where we currently stand.
The only thing I'd add to that is that if your issue is ONLY with taps on the left hand side of the screen, then it's either a different issue to what most of us (other than perhaps ZWire) are experiencing? - I can categorically state that I have the problem on ALL edges, if you check my post about it, you'll see that there's basically only a smaller (maybe 4/5th's of the size of the screen) area, centralised, that registers taps consistently and properly, without having to hold down for 1/2 second or so?
So just to clarify, is THIS ^^^ issue also being looked at please? - This one (although possibly related to the one you mention) is my current (3rd, I might add) showstopper bug preventing my game's release yet again I'm afraid....> @Zwire said:
@Japster have you heard anything from Alex regarding fixing the touch issues?
He says to me he cant reproduce the bug and only a really small portion of the screen is affected. This is what his tests came up with:
After months they still havent ordered the developers to fix this problem. He said he first has to reproduce the problem.
How come he cant reproduce when a lot of people are affected?
@Zwire - Hi mate - Yep, had the same last message... ...tbh, I've pretty much given up now. I couldn't test as my Dev Mac PSU has died, and I don't have the time to set up my mrs's mac mini fully as a dev one, to test this out just yet, and I can't believe that this so hard to EASILY reproduce, although in fairness Alex did mention more info that it's possibly a fault with the publishing side's / servers code / process, which certainly sounds possible...
I'm pessimistic about it all at the moment - hardly ever visit here now, as it's really dragged on too long, and every time I return here, I seemingly see more and more breakages, including ads, etc - and now even more community legends like @Two.E leaving... ...I've kinda given up too...
...So, I'm currently investing my time and effort into a system that DOES seem to work, and one I've already made a game from scratch in, WHILE awaiting a potential turnaround of this one ever becoming a more stable, WORKING, serious product again, and I'm certainly not wasting my time or money on it in the meantime....
So I'm afraid I don't have any more news mate, but I'm VERY happy filling in time using a competing product that just works, and very well... I honestly wish I'd made the move YEARS ago, and will ONLY return to GS to hopefully ONE DAY, get my damned existing games published when/if it's ever fixed to the point where (a) I can publish a working game, touch included, and (b) actually earn any revenue from it if the ads are ever all fully working properly again.... :frowning:
@Zwire said: @Japster have you heard anything from Alex regarding fixing the touch issues?
He says to me he cant reproduce the bug and only a really small portion of the screen is affected. This is what his tests came up with:
After months they still havent ordered the developers to fix this problem. He said he first has to reproduce the problem.
How come he cant reproduce when a lot of people are affected?
I've not experienced this bug, but I have experienced a bug that means the camera is positioned incorrectly - so the camera position you see on the Creator is not the one that you see in the published game. Moving the camera a little deals with that issue. Perhaps this touch bug is related? What happens if you zoom the camera in a tiny bit, or move it left or right? Does the untouchable area change, or remain consistent?
@Armelline said:
I've not experienced this bug, but I have experienced a bug that means the camera is positioned incorrectly - so the camera position you see on the Creator is not the one that you see in the published game. Moving the camera a little deals with that issue. Perhaps this touch bug is related? What happens if you zoom the camera in a tiny bit, or move it left or right? Does the untouchable area change, or remain consistent?
Unrelated. The untouchable area is consistent, no matter how you move or zoom the camera. And it is much larger than the image above suggests.
@Japster said:
. . . will ONLY return to GS to hopefully ONE DAY, get my damned existing games published when/if it's ever fixed . . .
I can't see these issues being fixed, the focus is on education now, with such a small staff (what's the singular for 'staff' ) I can't see GS being able to service both the education and developer markets, and the education customers are unlikely to be putting pressure on GS to make sure GS is compatible with advertising platform updates and the latest phone or tablet requirements for the App Store - their focus will be on supplying the tools to teach basic programming concepts to young children.
GameSalad as a developer platform is in the rear view mirror, it can of course still be used to develop games, but that wouldn't appear to be its future.
@Zwire said: @Japster the more people download my game, the more people complain about the ducking and jumping not working.
Its already affecting my downloads. 48 people dowloaded the game and 22 already uninstalled it. Thats crazy. Almost half.
If they are not going to fix this, I am just like you, screwed. Next to this problem, I have a problem of the ads not working properly and causing my buttons to not change scenes. Or the game just freezes.
Contacted Chartboost support and they are really helpful and caring. Wished GS was this way.
GS says they will look into it and send it to the dev team, so I hope it gets fixed for all of us. But as someone else said, this is what they always do and nothing will get fixed. Hope not.
@Zwire , I'm sorry to hear this mate, and it's why there's no WAY I'm releasing my game until I'm 100% sure that this issue is resolved.. :frowning:
On the PLUS side, Alex / ForumNinja responded to my January 3rd Blue Button query yesterday, so in the interests of updating you, it looks like they are aware of some things and working on them:-
Alex
We've had a few bugs effecting a lot of people recently.
Publishing servers being broken/hanging on generation: Should be fixed as of over the weekend. I was able to generate fine this morning.
Creator being unusable for people on High Sierra: Should be fixed with the latest release (1.25.85), though I'm hearing that there's new issues that are cropping up in it.
In App Purchases are stuck processing: I'm currently looking into reproducing this.
Left side of iPhones not always registering taps: I brought this up to the team again to try and get them to look into it.
Japster
Alex, thank you for getting back to me, I do appreciate it, and the breakdown of where we currently stand.
The only thing I'd add to that is that if your issue is ONLY with taps on the left hand side of the screen, then it's either a different issue to what most of us (other than perhaps ZWire) are experiencing? - I can categorically state that I have the problem on ALL edges, if you check my post about it, you'll see that there's basically only a smaller (maybe 4/5th's of the size of the screen) area, centralised, that registers taps consistently and properly, without having to hold down for 1/2 second or so?
So just to clarify, is THIS ^^^ issue also being looked at please? - This one (although possibly related to the one you mention) is my current (3rd, I might add) showstopper bug preventing my game's release yet again I'm afraid....> @Zwire said:
@Japster have you heard anything from Alex regarding fixing the touch issues?
He says to me he cant reproduce the bug and only a really small portion of the screen is affected. This is what his tests came up with:
After months they still havent ordered the developers to fix this problem. He said he first has to reproduce the problem.
How come he cant reproduce when a lot of people are affected?
@Zwire - Hi mate - Yep, had the same last message... ...tbh, I've pretty much given up now. I couldn't test as my Dev Mac PSU has died, and I don't have the time to set up my mrs's mac mini fully as a dev one, to test this out just yet, and I can't believe that this so hard to EASILY reproduce, although in fairness Alex did mention more info that it's possibly a fault with the publishing side's / servers code / process, which certainly sounds possible...
I'm pessimistic about it all at the moment - hardly ever visit here now, as it's really dragged on too long, and every time I return here, I seemingly see more and more breakages, including ads, etc - and now even more community legends like @Two.E leaving... ...I've kinda given up too...
...So, I'm currently investing my time and effort into a system that DOES seem to work, and one I've already made a game from scratch in, WHILE awaiting a potential turnaround of this one ever becoming a more stable, WORKING, serious product again, and I'm certainly not wasting my time or money on it in the meantime....
So I'm afraid I don't have any more news mate, but I'm VERY happy filling in time using a competing product that just works, and very well... I honestly wish I'd made the move YEARS ago, and will ONLY return to GS to hopefully ONE DAY, get my damned existing games published when/if it's ever fixed to the point where (a) I can publish a working game, touch included, and (b) actually earn any revenue from it if the ads are ever all fully working properly again.... :frowning:
@Japster - thanks for your reply man. Really sucks you cant publish your games and that you gave up but nice to hear you have moved on. Thats the best thing you could do.
Hope you make some kickass new games with the new engine!
@Japster said:
. . . will ONLY return to GS to hopefully ONE DAY, get my damned existing games published when/if it's ever fixed . . .
I can't see these issues being fixed, the focus is on education now, with such a small staff (what's the singular for 'staff' ) I can't see GS being able to service both the education and developer markets, and the education customers are unlikely to be putting pressure on GS to make sure GS is compatible with advertising platform updates and the latest phone or tablet requirements for the App Store - their focus will be on supplying the tools to teach basic programming concepts to young children.
GameSalad as a developer platform is in the rear view mirror, it can of course still be used to develop games, but that wouldn't appear to be its future.
@socks - if what you say is true, then what they are doing must be illegal. Still promoting their product which is broken while devs invest their money and time on it.
Hopefully they wont abandon the devs altogether otherwise ill have to book a ticket to the US .
@Zwire said: @socks - if what you say is true, then what they are doing must be illegal. Still promoting their product which is broken while devs invest their money and time on it.
The always-changing nature of software systems . . . (not just the software you're using, but the platform it's running on, the 3rd party ad systems it uses . . . and so on) . . . means it's never going to be a clearcut issue, after all GS can't be blamed if - for example - Apple decide that all new apps must use a certain process, or an ad platform makes a major change to how it's implemented, or a new Android device comes out that requires a major overhaul of one part of GameSalad.
So I'd say in that respect it's not unreasonable for any software company to cover that sort of thing in their terms or service, a lack of support for a software issue in this context isn't in any way illegal, when we sign up to use GameSalad we agree to the following . . . .
GameSalad may, in its sole discretion, add, change, modify, discontinue, remove, or suspend any portion or feature of the Site or Services, including, without limitation, the Software and Content (each as defined below), temporarily or permanently, at any time, without notice and without liability to you . . . etc etc
@Zwire said:
Hopefully they wont abandon the devs altogether otherwise ill have to book a ticket to the US .
I'm not sure how you are defining 'abandon', but from what I can see the developer side of GameSalad was abandoned quite a while ago it wasn't a switch-off-the-life-support-machine type of approach, after all it wouldn't make business sense to needlessly cut off a revenue stream if it can be kept afloat with minimal effort and the occasional update - it seems like more of a leave-the-patient-to-die type of approach, maybe a nurse will stick their head around the door every few weeks so they can carry on charging the patient's family for their services.
I honestly cant see how this is even going to work out even for the educational angle. I'm pretty sure even educational customers want to have a stable, consistent, well supported software that they're using for teaching with.
But even if it were, why wouldn't they just use Scratch (and Scratch Jr) instead. Its even more visual than GS, and from what I've seen, pretty much as powerful. I've been playing with it with my 10 year old niece, who is learning it as part of her school curriculum here in the UK. There's loads of well written child friendly books supporting it too.
I just don't see how GS can even compete in that market, as someone else has already beaten them to it and created the product they're trying to be, with a much more streamlined product, that is completely free.
@Chunkypixels said:
But even if it were, why wouldn't they just use Scratch (and Scratch Jr) instead. Its even more visual than GS, and from what I've seen, pretty much as powerful. I've been playing with it with my 10 year old niece, who is learning it as part of her school curriculum here in the UK. There's loads of well written child friendly books supporting it too.
Exactly, at my son's school (he's 9 / nearly 10) they've just started coding lessons, and they've jumped straight in with learning Python - they had a choice between Scratch and Python - (I'm in the UK too).
@Chunkypixels said:
I just don't see how GS can even compete in that market, as someone else has already beaten them to it and created the product they're trying to be, with a much more streamlined product, that is completely free.
Agreed, I wonder how it's going to work ? I think (not 100% sure) that the browser based approach with GS2.0 is the selling point, but if that's the case - and that's what schools are buying into - then it wouldn't be at all difficult for other SDKs (more established SDKs) to go browser based for the education market ?
Who knows, it all seems to be up in the air at the moment with regards to GS.
@Armelline said:
I've not experienced this bug, but I have experienced a bug that means the camera is positioned incorrectly - so the camera position you see on the Creator is not the one that you see in the published game. Moving the camera a little deals with that issue. Perhaps this touch bug is related? What happens if you zoom the camera in a tiny bit, or move it left or right? Does the untouchable area change, or remain consistent?
@Armelline - Yeah, cheers for , but as @pHghost mentions, it's consistent in terms of the affected screen area. I've also had the camera bug, and worked around that.
This one, even on my test project, 2 massively different scene and camera sizes, shows without a doubt it's exactly the same on-screen real estate affected in all cases mate...
The GS guy(s) have even got my project - unsure why they don't just publish it if the publishing side is the issue, and see / eliminate / track the cause down themselves, but I'm almost past caring that my 2 years' worth of work is sitting in limbo, and resigned to the inevitable....
Comments
I really want to stay. I’ve been watching other tutorials and constantly think “that’s so much easier to do in GS”. GS is great.
But reality always hits. Creator is fading out. The future is the online tool. Will they change it into a tool it needs to be?
Maybe it’s just me being wrapped up in game logic a lot of the time now (thanks to GS!), but I must be honest that when I saw some of the tutorials, I though: “is that really it?”
It didn’t come across as much more complex than GameSalad. Sometimes it was even more straightforward. Shocker! Yes, the workflow is different and will need getting used to, but in all honesty, I felt that if I gave some time to getting used to the new workflow, I could probably make quick prototypes almost as fast as in GS.
And here’s the kicker: once you get into more complex parts of the project and GS bugs kick in, it might be actually faster to use another tool, rather than spending hours battling the quirks of GS and finding workaround solutions.
...yep, that and running smack into a brick wall after brick wall, waiting for fixes that sometimes never come, and wasting MONTHS of your time unable to get past them. So I agree, THAT is the reason why it's almost certainly easier to compete with GS's prototyping and dev speed - if something just WORKS, then it's obviously (long-term) just as quick, if not quicker, to develop on another system.
...and I have to admit, the latest 'fixed' version scares the HELL out of me - if this is a fix for something else, but breaks LOTS of stuff, this really is looking like a 'one step forwards, 5 steps back' type thing.
I'm wondering if the ability to reliably maintain this product is even here anymore. With the best will in the world on Adent's behalf, the few (ie. can count on one hand) times that a fix has appeared recently, it's been accompanied by several all-new MASSIVE engine and/or publishing breaking bugs, and a weeks/months-long saga to get the original, PLUS the new bugs, squashed.
As @Socks mentions, yep, I'm one of the more 'get it off your chest, and out there / make people aware' vocal forumites, and for every one of me, I'm guessing there are many, many more with neither the time nor inclination to start a thread about it, but GS can delude themselves all they want over what the actual figures for leavers are, until the (reduced) subs cash comes in, as is their way.
The forum sounds a good idea, especially in light of the great suggestions from others about highlighting differences / how-to's from GS to other platforms - I reckon that could become a great knowledge base if enough tips are shared over time? - although all things considered, at least (for now) this forum is not suffering from petty, dictatorial moderation like in the bad old days - one improvement at least, but perhaps more down to workloads than policy....
PS - I'm genuinely sorry to see that it's affected you so badly too @pHghost , and I have to say, @Armelline, you're a staunch supporter of GS, but looking at your recent posts, this is obviously (and understandably) immensely frustrating to you too.
I just hope they get their **** together, as another mentioned, before they drown in it.
(PS - Sorry guys, not felt like posting for a couple of days as feeling even more negative due to the even more broken state of GS that I'm reading about, so I've only just skimmed through the latest posts here - I'm now up to date again, but with even more fire in my belly...
)
That’s probably true!! Most of my games are simple (matching brain capacity). So GS is a good fit for me. I enjoy learning so that part is fun. I’m an old dog. That part is harder. I actually prefer GS.
Knowing GS logic is helping a lot.
But Im still hoping the online tool comes around.....
I think I'm one of those long time users of GameSalad, that @Socks alluded to, thats all but given up on GS, and rarely posts on the forums anymore.
It was a really hard decision, and one that seriously tugged at my heart strings, but in the end, I just had to stop torturing myself and move to a development environment that had a real world future, and that I wasn't always having to bitch about.
I moved to Unity, learnt C# and now, a year later feel more than confident that I can create anything i could do using GS, and so much more... all without the regular drama, and about turns that the developers of the game engine would regularly throw into the mix.
Game development can be hard enough as it is, you don't need to be a hostage to the development environment, or more to the point, the company fucking it up all the time.
For some context, I used GameSalad for over 5 years, originally choosing it over Unity and many other engines, due to its "no coding" required. With a background as a games artist, GS appealed to me, and for the first couple of years actually fit my requirements really well. Then, it all started going off the rails, with the company regularly deciding to go off and start developing new publishing systems or game engines, rather than just properly supporting and updating the mostly working core engine that they already had, and that thousands of developers were already using.
Lie after lie, broken version after broken version, and a base engine that was quickly falling behind in usability... in the end, was just too much.
It was a hard decision to make, I had a stack of published games, and an even bigger pile of half finished games built in GS... with a handful of almost complete games, some that were well into 6 months of development time, all of which, I've pretty much had to write off.
But, a year later, and I absolutely know I made the right decision. I no longer feel that I'm being held hostage, and know that the tool I now work with is very well supported, has a much wider range of platforms I can publish to, does NOT require me to rely on a server I have no control over to create my builds, and, above all, is an industry standard tool, with real job potential.
For anyone doing this as a business or career, no matter how small, I strongly urge you to ditch GameSalad, even if it means putting current projects on hold... and learn either Unity or GameMaker instead.
If GameSalad eventually fix everything, then cool... you can always come back and finish off your project, but if they don't, do you really want to spend the next year holding out for it, only to be disappointed and demoralised. Use that time better, and learn something new, and build and enhance your skillset with something that has a real future... and maybe, a year down the line, when GS still hasn't fixed its gamestopping bugs, you'll potentially be able to build a better version of your game in your new engine.
I spent years arguing with GS, hoping that they would see the light, and put their resources into the engine. They never did... year after year of folly and misuse of resources have led to where it is now.
The webtool has NO future as a professional game development tool..it never has. They've admitted to that well over a year ago, and is aimed to be a cut down version of the engine, that basically just covers what is required by schools. Even if it were to ever reach parity with the current desktop version, users will still forever be at the mercy of the server side builds... which, as is currently being proven, is prone to all manner of issues.
So yup... @Japster and anyone else who is planning on doing game development seriously, just bite the bullet, and make the move to a different engine. You'll learn so much more, and improve your skillset... coding is actually a lot easier and more fun than people realise. Stop holding yourself back, but more to the point, stop letting someone else hold you back.
GameSalad started out with immense potential... but its sadly been driven into the dirt.
I really don't want to but i might have to agree.
Across the board all the people that have helped me learn GS over the years, have been leaving. Those that are steadfast and trying to hold the course are getting beaten back with a lack of responses to their problems!
I say again wow, but i'm not sure how many wows i have left...
Poor old Steve only had three... then he passed on!
Pretty much it in a nutshell @smurfted mate...
I'm now looking at other solutions (not that I wanted to), but really, it's now beyond a joke - SICK of putting my life and ambitions on hold while yet another ignored major issue occurs / new bunch of bugs appear.
@Japster the more people download my game, the more people complain about the ducking and jumping not working.
Its already affecting my downloads. 48 people dowloaded the game and 22 already uninstalled it. Thats crazy. Almost half.
If they are not going to fix this, I am just like you, screwed. Next to this problem, I have a problem of the ads not working properly and causing my buttons to not change scenes. Or the game just freezes.
Contacted Chartboost support and they are really helpful and caring. Wished GS was this way.
GS says they will look into it and send it to the dev team, so I hope it gets fixed for all of us. But as someone else said, this is what they always do and nothing will get fixed. Hope not.
Had this problem before
http://forums.gamesalad.com/discussion/92285/problem-with-chartboost-android-and-change-scene#latest
Back in june 2016 , they couldnt reproduce the issue , couple of member had the same problem. On ios some ads don't pop up and on android the change scene doesn't work , but not all the time , it happens every now and then. We had a little talk via the blue bubble , but unfortunately they couldn't reproduce the issue , it was right after they updated chartboost sdk , this was the last message i got regarding the issue.
83 weeks later still not fixed but hopefully they will look into it after couple of years, do report the bug if you really want it fixed , cause they cant fix anything without them nice reports.
This is exactly what I mean when I say the 'blue bubble' is a really senseless approach to dealing with issues - here we have Zwire bringing up an issue that was discussed more than a year and a half ago, but he's not to know that as the conversation was had in secret, the blue bubble really defeats the whole idea of a public forum, I can't imagine a better way to stymie the flow of information, for all I know a number of issues I've had with GameSalad were discussed at length months ago, through the blue button, maybe some possible workarounds were discussed, maybe even some solutions were found, but - like Zwire - how would I, or anyone, know about any of this when it's all conducted in secret ?
I know I'm beating a dead horse here
and I've gone on before about the blue button, but it just strikes me as such a purposeless move, and I suspect something that is helping kill off the forum.
@Icebox Thats really interesting. Thought nobody experienced the same issue cause nobody reacted on my thread a couple of days ago.
Its exactly as you had in 2016. It happens random and I cant reproduce it at will. Only when I play for minutes it will happen. Am afraid GS just say cant reproduce and do s@#t about it.
How on earth can I advertise my game like this?
@Icebox The only reason they implemented the blue button is for their ease only. With the blue button they receive complaints and bugs directly without having to read every thread every day on the forum.
Dont even think for a minute they want what is best for us. They do what is easiest and best for them.
That's how our governments handle everything... they use the blue button to communicate, domestically and internationally.
Don't you think Trump has got a blue button?
But the bigger problem is that he has a red one too!
@Zwire , I'm sorry to hear this mate, and it's why there's no WAY I'm releasing my game until I'm 100% sure that this issue is resolved.. :frowning:
On the PLUS side, Alex / ForumNinja responded to my January 3rd Blue Button query yesterday, so in the interests of updating you, it looks like they are aware of some things and working on them:-
@Japster have you heard anything from Alex regarding fixing the touch issues?
He says to me he cant reproduce the bug and only a really small portion of the screen is affected. This is what his tests came up with:
After months they still havent ordered the developers to fix this problem. He said he first has to reproduce the problem.
How come he cant reproduce when a lot of people are affected?
@Zwire , I'm sorry to hear this mate, and it's why there's no WAY I'm releasing my game until I'm 100% sure that this issue is resolved.. :frowning:
On the PLUS side, Alex / ForumNinja responded to my January 3rd Blue Button query yesterday, so in the interests of updating you, it looks like they are aware of some things and working on them:-
Alex, thank you for getting back to me, I do appreciate it, and the breakdown of where we currently stand.
The only thing I'd add to that is that if your issue is ONLY with taps on the left hand side of the screen, then it's either a different issue to what most of us (other than perhaps ZWire) are experiencing? - I can categorically state that I have the problem on ALL edges, if you check my post about it, you'll see that there's basically only a smaller (maybe 4/5th's of the size of the screen) area, centralised, that registers taps consistently and properly, without having to hold down for 1/2 second or so?
So just to clarify, is THIS ^^^ issue also being looked at please? - This one (although possibly related to the one you mention) is my current (3rd, I might add) showstopper bug preventing my game's release yet again I'm afraid....> @Zwire said:
@Zwire - Hi mate - Yep, had the same last message... ...tbh, I've pretty much given up now. I couldn't test as my Dev Mac PSU has died, and I don't have the time to set up my mrs's mac mini fully as a dev one, to test this out just yet, and I can't believe that this so hard to EASILY reproduce, although in fairness Alex did mention more info that it's possibly a fault with the publishing side's / servers code / process, which certainly sounds possible...
I'm pessimistic about it all at the moment - hardly ever visit here now, as it's really dragged on too long, and every time I return here, I seemingly see more and more breakages, including ads, etc - and now even more community legends like @Two.E leaving... ...I've kinda given up too...
...So, I'm currently investing my time and effort into a system that DOES seem to work, and one I've already made a game from scratch in, WHILE awaiting a potential turnaround of this one ever becoming a more stable, WORKING, serious product again, and I'm certainly not wasting my time or money on it in the meantime....
So I'm afraid I don't have any more news mate, but I'm VERY happy filling in time using a competing product that just works, and very well... I honestly wish I'd made the move YEARS ago, and will ONLY return to GS to hopefully ONE DAY, get my damned existing games published when/if it's ever fixed to the point where (a) I can publish a working game, touch included, and (b) actually earn any revenue from it if the ads are ever all fully working properly again.... :frowning:
I've not experienced this bug, but I have experienced a bug that means the camera is positioned incorrectly - so the camera position you see on the Creator is not the one that you see in the published game. Moving the camera a little deals with that issue. Perhaps this touch bug is related? What happens if you zoom the camera in a tiny bit, or move it left or right? Does the untouchable area change, or remain consistent?
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Unrelated. The untouchable area is consistent, no matter how you move or zoom the camera. And it is much larger than the image above suggests.
I can't see these issues being fixed, the focus is on education now, with such a small staff (what's the singular for 'staff'
) I can't see GS being able to service both the education and developer markets, and the education customers are unlikely to be putting pressure on GS to make sure GS is compatible with advertising platform updates and the latest phone or tablet requirements for the App Store - their focus will be on supplying the tools to teach basic programming concepts to young children.
GameSalad as a developer platform is in the rear view mirror, it can of course still be used to develop games, but that wouldn't appear to be its future.
@Japster - thanks for your reply man. Really sucks you cant publish your games and that you gave up but nice to hear you have moved on. Thats the best thing you could do.
Hope you make some kickass new games with the new engine!
@socks - if what you say is true, then what they are doing must be illegal. Still promoting their product which is broken while devs invest their money and time on it.
Hopefully they wont abandon the devs altogether otherwise ill have to book a ticket to the US
.
The always-changing nature of software systems . . . (not just the software you're using, but the platform it's running on, the 3rd party ad systems it uses . . . and so on) . . . means it's never going to be a clearcut issue, after all GS can't be blamed if - for example - Apple decide that all new apps must use a certain process, or an ad platform makes a major change to how it's implemented, or a new Android device comes out that requires a major overhaul of one part of GameSalad.
So I'd say in that respect it's not unreasonable for any software company to cover that sort of thing in their terms or service, a lack of support for a software issue in this context isn't in any way illegal, when we sign up to use GameSalad we agree to the following . . . .
GameSalad may, in its sole discretion, add, change, modify, discontinue, remove, or suspend any portion or feature of the Site or Services, including, without limitation, the Software and Content (each as defined below), temporarily or permanently, at any time, without notice and without liability to you . . . etc etc
I'm not sure how you are defining 'abandon', but from what I can see the developer side of GameSalad was abandoned quite a while ago
it wasn't a switch-off-the-life-support-machine type of approach, after all it wouldn't make business sense to needlessly cut off a revenue stream if it can be kept afloat with minimal effort and the occasional update - it seems like more of a leave-the-patient-to-die type of approach, maybe a nurse will stick their head around the door every few weeks so they can carry on charging the patient's family for their services.
I honestly cant see how this is even going to work out even for the educational angle. I'm pretty sure even educational customers want to have a stable, consistent, well supported software that they're using for teaching with.
But even if it were, why wouldn't they just use Scratch (and Scratch Jr) instead. Its even more visual than GS, and from what I've seen, pretty much as powerful. I've been playing with it with my 10 year old niece, who is learning it as part of her school curriculum here in the UK. There's loads of well written child friendly books supporting it too.
I just don't see how GS can even compete in that market, as someone else has already beaten them to it and created the product they're trying to be, with a much more streamlined product, that is completely free.
Exactly, at my son's school (he's 9 / nearly 10) they've just started coding lessons, and they've jumped straight in with learning Python - they had a choice between Scratch and Python - (I'm in the UK too).
Agreed, I wonder how it's going to work ? I think (not 100% sure) that the browser based approach with GS2.0 is the selling point, but if that's the case - and that's what schools are buying into - then it wouldn't be at all difficult for other SDKs (more established SDKs) to go browser based for the education market ?
Who knows, it all seems to be up in the air at the moment with regards to GS.
@Armelline - Yeah, cheers for , but as @pHghost mentions, it's consistent in terms of the affected screen area. I've also had the camera bug, and worked around that.
This one, even on my test project, 2 massively different scene and camera sizes, shows without a doubt it's exactly the same on-screen real estate affected in all cases mate...
The GS guy(s) have even got my project - unsure why they don't just publish it if the publishing side is the issue, and see / eliminate / track the cause down themselves, but I'm almost past caring that my 2 years' worth of work is sitting in limbo, and resigned to the inevitable....
Here is a published game with the bug.
https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/bad-teeth/id1297479134?mt=8
Tap on the middle of the screen and play a few times. Then tap near the edges and try.
Normally people don’t tap near the edge so for my game people won’t notice. But it’s there.
Stuffed!