ARC_Games said: I am a professional programmer, but I have just started using game salad, and aside from the fact that it crashes every 10 minutes or so, I like using it because of the GUI...
I took the time to learn how to use the software, been working on a very good game for the past month now... working literally day and night on it, and now today I get this email from GS explaining that they have chosen to implement an unconscionable and totally unacceptable business model that takes a cut of my future revenues from my game (if I continue to use GS to complete it), and they are also demanding that I use them as the publisher of my game on the app store????????? Are you guys kidding me?
No reasonable professional is going to pay royalties to a 'middle-man software development tool' company like GS/Gendai, much less allow them to act as PUBLISHER of our game on the app store. Not unless GS wants to hire me and put me on salary with benefits. Then maybe I would consider letting them take royalties and act as publisher of my intellectual property that I created using their software tool.
I started using GS under the assumption that you were offering the software as a tool, (like Microsoft Word for creating documents but where I don't have to give royalties to Microsoft for every book I type out using their software TOOL, and where I don't have to offer my books on Amazon with Microsoft listed as the creator and publisher of the book, and be forced to go through Microsoft as middle-man between me and the marketplace using them as my publisher under their brand name and not mine). Microsoft has done some pretty evil corporate stuff over the years, but even they would never be so obtuse as to think that they could pull off what Gendai is currently trying to pull off with GS. This is just plain ridiculous!!!!
I am truly upset!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Instead of spending my day working on the continued development of my game for the iphone/ipod touch using GS as a software development tool, I have had to try and get to the bottom of what is going on here with the new terms being forced upon GS developers. In the process of this, I will add that I have downloaded the trial version of Corona, and fully plan to use that tool instead of GS, unless GS decides to reverse it's current course of action regarding publishing/royalties/etc.
While I'm at it, I would like to suggest that you fix your software so that it does not crash so often. I literally click SAVE after every single thing that I change on my game so as not to lose my work every 5 or 10 minutes when GS regularly crashes on me. Thanks, and good luck. Your software tool has potential and obviously there are some very intelligent people who created it, but I wish you the best in not killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
You have now wasted a good half day's worth of time that I should have been able to just work on development of my current game project. Please make up your minds, and give us all the specific details of whatever you are implementing in terms of our options (or lack thereof) in pricing and publishing with your product. That way, you can stop wasting all of our time and we can make an informed decision as to whether or not we trust your company to provide us a software development tool at competitive pricing under reasonable terms as compared to your competition. We are your customers.... we have other options besides your product.... our time is valuable.... you are wasting it.... and we are waiting!
Tell us what we need to know, and let us make a decision.
HOLY MOLY GENDAI, [edit by BeyondtheTech: I have friends named Holly and Molly]
How could you not have pro option when all these people need one! Bad bad business planning!
My time is valuable. Gamesalad is wasting it. I can't keep up with the forums because I have a full time day job. I'm tired of wading through all this BS to see if there's a crumb of an update or new info. The SPAM i got in my inbox from the Gamesalad COO was complete garbage. Quit wasting my time. If you've got something to say, it's gotta be cold hard facts. No more fluff.
forklift said: The SPAM i got in my inbox from the Gamesalad COO was complete garbage.
HA! I've read several posts about individuals receiving email communications from GameSalad. Looks like GameSalad is selective in not only WHAT they say, but WHO they say it to. I've got a current membership and haven't received ANY email from GameSalad (and yes, I checked my "junk" folder too).
alcamie said: Things have quietened down alot here.. Whilst things are looking real busy over at Corona with the rest of the old guys.
Yeah, after a few days i'm sure a lot of people have given up and switched over... the only ones still here are the ones determined not to get a real job. *points at self*
Yep.. I was about 2 weeks away from getting my game "crank" up in GS but now this has happened I've had to reassess. Funnily enough, I was just scared to try coding. But I have already gotten my menu system up and running in an hour in Corona. Now I'm pretty confident that the rest will hack into place. And I only have to pay less than a qtr on the pro version to have even more.
Just got a response email from Rocket Engine / Rocket Pack They said they have been watching GS forums and that they will not be doing what GS is with their rev share.
They may be reading, but they are not answering the important questions, like, why would I want to associate a game I created with garbage put out by others (the fact is there are good games and garbage games created with GS. Buyers will be influenced as to their next purchase more by garbage than by quality). Similarly, why would others want to associate their games with my game if it is garbage.
Well it is clear to me that this is now a dead end subscription for me after agreeing to the old terms and conditions, that stated that I'd be allowed to not only publish my games and receive my 70% from Apple for what is already shaping up to be a block buster game and then allowing me to upgrade to a proVersion that would have allowed me the "FULL" iAds revenue, to having the T&C's completely reversed and having no definite, NAY, no information what so ever about my future earning prospects in a forced publishing regime.
So once again I MUST DEMAND MY MONEY BACK!! Since I only paid for my Subs only 1 month ago, I feel robbed and cheated and wish that you return to me that money I paid you under the auspice of knowing that you were a 100% game software dev kit company and were absolutely going to give me access to all of my earnings, not a forced labourer being paid peanuts like a monkey. Which is now what my subscription amounts to.
Well it is clear to me that this is now a dead end subscription for me after agreeing to the old terms and conditions, that stated that I'd be allowed to not only publish my games and receive my 70% from Apple for what is already shaping up to be a block buster game and then allowing me to upgrade to a proVersion that would have allowed me the "FULL" iAds revenue, to having the T&C's completely reversed and having no definite, NAY, no information what so ever about my future earning prospects in a forced publishing regime.
So once again I MUST DEMAND MY MONEY BACK!! Since I only paid for my Subs only 1 month ago, I feel robbed and cheated and wish that you return to me that money I paid you under the auspice of knowing that you were a 100% game software dev kit company and were absolutely going to give me access to all of my earnings, not a forced labourer being paid peanuts like a monkey. Which is now what my subscription amounts to.
Regards Alcamie
Well the bully boy tactics have started.. I posted a thread of the above with a poll and "dmcdowell" first closed it and then deleted it.
He stated my subs would not change.. He read the first part of the message and took what h wanted from it and ignored the part that stated I would be forced into a publishing deal with them with no option for PRO version.
I didn't delete your post. I'm also not a boy, nor do I employ bully tactics. Your subscription -- as I said earlier, and as Frank clearly detailed in the original post on this thread -- will remain exactly as it is until it expires, 12 months from when you purchased it. Your subscription hasn't changed -- at all. You aren't forced into doing anything -- at all -- and you'll have 11 or so months do decide if you want to continue making games with GameSalad with the pricing, availability and terms that are available at that time. I sincerely wish I could add more details about GS Direct to give the community a better idea of all the things that are being added and changed, because that would end a lot of these sorts of posts, but that information will be released soon. (And by someone else. I'm a software tester, Jim, not a company spokesperson!)
You missed the point of my post entirely, but thats because you don't wish to see the point and I suspect neither do any of your management. If you didn't delete the post who did?? I most certainly didn't and the only people who can delete posts are the Moderators.
***I am repeating this post here as I assume the other one will get deleted soon***
I think it's a fairly reasonable request to seek a refund on the basis that people did create games that could be continually updated. Gendai will remove that ability from everyone as their subscriptions expire. If you are investing time and money into making games that are going to be left to languish on the app store with zero ability to update them then people might want to move on to other software now and not waste anymore time making GS games, thus requesting a refund on remaining subscription time is reasonable due to the changes that Gendai have made to their TOS.
I know people could argue that you can still update your software by remaking the game using other software, but that's not quite the point. Also I realise very well that the TOS for a yearly subscription is an interesting point as it is only valid for that year. However any terms are only legally binding to the degree that a court would deem 'reasonable'.
I just want to throw this idea in the mix since I know these threads are getting read by Gendai:
1. Don't release the Direct model yet. Instead work on 0.9 or where ever the version is at and release that.
2. In the meantime - have your marketing department continue working on the details of the Direct model and touch up where it needs.
3. Retool version 1.0 so that the following is possible:
-You can release a full version of the software for everyone to use completely for free. -The software is completely free to use until someone wants to make a commercial product. -When a dev wants to submit to the app store - he/she is given a prompt for 4 options:
Express License (anything added to the game that ONLY WORKS in pro is deactivated unless he/she chooses other licenses. Your game is given a splash screen-no ifs ands or buts.)
Pro License (You're on you're own, but have full features in your commercial product.)
1st Direct option (Your game is released for free... period. But MUST be published under Gendai.)
2nd Direct option (Your game is released commercially. You have full pro features and you pay Gendai royalties. Depending on license agreements - you may be able to change to a pro license, but mostly your game is published under Gendai).
Everyone would be happy this way for sure.
To explain the first Direct option better. This way you can't use the free software and somehow publish commercially or on your own in a way that would cheat Gendai. This protects Gendai's product - GameSalad.
Another good reason for the first option would be this: As Gendai as your publisher - sure, they're not making any money off a free game, but it's a trade off. They can control who is first and noteworthy on their lists. So the best free GS games are at the top of their list.
Free games of course are very popular. Angry Birds lite had 11.5 Million downloads. If there are people downloading free GS games - that is good ATTENTION for Gendai and devs who have the best free titles. Gendai could also for instance - within the free games - put nag screens for $$$ games.
Snow said: I just want to throw this idea in the mix since I know these threads are getting read by Gendai:
1. Don't release the Direct model yet. Instead work on 0.9 or where ever the version is at and release that.
2. In the meantime - have your marketing department continue working on the details of the Direct model and touch up where it needs.
3. Retool version 1.0 so that the following is possible:
-You can release a full version of the software for everyone to use completely for free. -The software is completely free to use until someone wants to make a commercial product. -When a dev wants to submit to the app store - he/she is given a prompt for 4 options:
Express License (anything added to the game that ONLY WORKS in pro is deactivated unless he/she chooses other licenses. Your game is given a splash screen-no ifs ands or buts.)
Pro License (You're on you're own, but have full features in your commercial product.)
1st Direct option (Your game is released for free... period. But MUST be published under Gendai.)
2nd Direct option (Your game is released commercially. You have full pro features and you pay Gendai royalties. Depending on license agreements - you may be able to change to a pro license, but mostly your game is published under Gendai).
Everyone would be happy this way for sure.
To explain the first Direct option better. This way you can't use the free software and somehow publish commercially or on your own in a way that would cheat Gendai. This protects Gendai's product - GameSalad.
Another good reason for the first option would be this: As Gendai as your publisher - sure, they're not making any money off a free game, but it's a trade off. They can control who is first and noteworthy on their lists. So the best free GS games are at the top of their list.
Free games of course are very popular. Angry Birds lite had 11.5 Million downloads. If there are people downloading free GS games - that is good ATTENTION for Gendai and devs who have the best free titles. Gendai could also for instance - within the free games - put nag screens for $$$ games.
I like where Snow is headed with this good thinking I could see this being a possibility. Really hope there listening to us.
So, How "easy" is corona anyways? I am thinking about switching over after I earn enough money off of my 1.0001% revenue through this trash heap software.
Ricky said: So, How "easy" is corona anyways? I am thinking about switching over after I earn enough money off of my 1.0001% revenue through this trash heap software.
At first it's a bit scary because of the lack of a GUI, but honestly I'm up to 20 hours MAX of using it and I'm already at the stage I'm no longer intimidated at all by it; it's VERY easy to pick up. Not as easy as GS mind you, but GS also lacks staff that care about you, Openfeint, no splash screen, etc. etc.
That said, GS isn't trash. I loved GS madly until they betrayed us all. I still can't bring myself, quite, to change my wall paper from the GS logo >.<' I'll do it later in the week, or something.
As much as I really, really hate GS right now and want to see them fail if they go ahead with this BS, the software is good, the community is mostly good and it was a really fun and easy tool to use.
peachpellen said: At first it's a bit scary because of the lack of a GUI, but honestly I'm up to 20 hours MAX of using it and I'm already at the stage I'm no longer intimidated at all by it; it's VERY easy to pick up. Not as easy as GS mind you, but GS also lacks staff that care about you, Openfeint, no splash screen, etc. etc.
That said, GS isn't trash. I loved GS madly until they betrayed us all. I still can't bring myself, quite, to change my wall paper from the GS logo >.<' I'll do it later in the week, or something.
As much as I really, really hate GS right now and want to see them fail if they go ahead with this BS, the software is good, the community is mostly good and it was a really fun and easy tool to use.
Pretty harsh saying that you want them to fail, just because the new system doesn't suit you. AND we don't know for certain yet that there will be no self-publish system...
POLYGAMe said: Pretty harsh saying that you want them to fail, just because the new system doesn't suit you. AND we don't know for certain yet that there will be no self-publish system...
She stated that she has the GameSalad logo as her desktop. I didn't interpret her post as malicious. Rather, I saw it as an open expression of emotion. It highlights the failure of the planned business model and the inept community relations.
It's been over a week since this chaos started. I'm surprised that the problem hasn't been resolved yet. How hard is it to say, "Whoops... our bad... we're turning back on Express and Pro subscription ordering until we can resolve the concerns raised by the awesome members of our community."
Comments
EDIT: Looks like someone already did.
How could you not have pro option when all these people need one!
Bad bad business planning!
But hey it'll be cool for you guys to handle all my requests to apple and manage to make timely payments to me each month ....!..?...
I never received any mailings either.. I have 2 accounts on here. My personal and Work account.
Funnily enough, I was just scared to try coding. But I have already gotten my menu system up and running in an hour in Corona.
Now I'm pretty confident that the rest will hack into place. And I only have to pay less than a qtr on the pro version to have even more.
They said they have been watching GS forums and that they will not be doing what GS is with their rev share.
Well it is clear to me that this is now a dead end subscription for me after agreeing to the old terms and conditions, that stated that I'd be allowed to not only publish my games and receive my 70% from Apple for what is already shaping up to be a block buster game and then allowing me to upgrade to a proVersion that would have allowed me the "FULL" iAds revenue, to having the T&C's completely reversed and having no definite, NAY, no information what so ever about my future earning prospects in a forced publishing regime.
So once again I MUST DEMAND MY MONEY BACK!! Since I only paid for my Subs only 1 month ago, I feel robbed and cheated and wish that you return to me that money I paid you under the auspice of knowing that you were a 100% game software dev kit company and were absolutely going to give me access to all of my earnings, not a forced labourer being paid peanuts like a monkey. Which is now what my subscription amounts to.
Regards
Alcamie
I posted a thread of the above with a poll and "dmcdowell" first closed it and then deleted it. Well the bully boy tactics have started..
I posted a thread of the above with a poll and "dmcdowell" first closed it and then deleted it.
He stated my subs would not change.. He read the first part of the message and took what h wanted from it and ignored the part that stated I would be forced into a publishing deal with them with no option for PRO version.
Alcamie
Whats the bet these get deleted too?
I didn't delete your post. I'm also not a boy, nor do I employ bully tactics. Your subscription -- as I said earlier, and as Frank clearly detailed in the original post on this thread -- will remain exactly as it is until it expires, 12 months from when you purchased it.
Your subscription hasn't changed -- at all. You aren't forced into doing anything -- at all -- and you'll have 11 or so months do decide if you want to continue making games with GameSalad with the pricing, availability and terms that are available at that time. I sincerely wish I could add more details about GS Direct to give the community a better idea of all the things that are being added and changed, because that would end a lot of these sorts of posts, but that information will be released soon. (And by someone else. I'm a software tester, Jim, not a company spokesperson!)
If you didn't delete the post who did?? I most certainly didn't and the only people who can delete posts are the Moderators.
I think it's a fairly reasonable request to seek a refund on the basis that people did create games that could be continually updated. Gendai will remove that ability from everyone as their subscriptions expire. If you are investing time and money into making games that are going to be left to languish on the app store with zero ability to update them then people might want to move on to other software now and not waste anymore time making GS games, thus requesting a refund on remaining subscription time is reasonable due to the changes that Gendai have made to their TOS.
I know people could argue that you can still update your software by remaking the game using other software, but that's not quite the point. Also I realise very well that the TOS for a yearly subscription is an interesting point as it is only valid for that year. However any terms are only legally binding to the degree that a court would deem 'reasonable'.
1. Don't release the Direct model yet. Instead work on 0.9 or where ever the version is at and release that.
2. In the meantime - have your marketing department continue working on the details of the Direct model and touch up where it needs.
3. Retool version 1.0 so that the following is possible:
-You can release a full version of the software for everyone to use completely for free.
-The software is completely free to use until someone wants to make a commercial product.
-When a dev wants to submit to the app store - he/she is given a prompt for 4 options:
Express License (anything added to the game that ONLY WORKS in pro is deactivated unless he/she chooses other licenses. Your game is given a splash screen-no ifs ands or buts.)
Pro License (You're on you're own, but have full features in your commercial product.)
1st Direct option (Your game is released for free... period. But MUST be published under Gendai.)
2nd Direct option (Your game is released commercially. You have full pro features and you pay Gendai royalties. Depending on license agreements - you may be able to change to a pro license, but mostly your game is published under Gendai).
Everyone would be happy this way for sure.
To explain the first Direct option better. This way you can't use the free software and somehow publish commercially or on your own in a way that would cheat Gendai. This protects Gendai's product - GameSalad.
Another good reason for the first option would be this: As Gendai as your publisher - sure, they're not making any money off a free game, but it's a trade off. They can control who is first and noteworthy on their lists. So the best free GS games are at the top of their list.
Free games of course are very popular. Angry Birds lite had 11.5 Million downloads. If there are people downloading free GS games - that is good ATTENTION for Gendai and devs who have the best free titles. Gendai could also for instance - within the free games - put nag screens for $$$ games.
That said, GS isn't trash. I loved GS madly until they betrayed us all. I still can't bring myself, quite, to change my wall paper from the GS logo >.<' I'll do it later in the week, or something.
As much as I really, really hate GS right now and want to see them fail if they go ahead with this BS, the software is good, the community is mostly good and it was a really fun and easy tool to use.
The anger and frustration of being locked in to a spiral of one way communication is always going to bring out the strongest of feelings.
It's been over a week since this chaos started. I'm surprised that the problem hasn't been resolved yet. How hard is it to say, "Whoops... our bad... we're turning back on Express and Pro subscription ordering until we can resolve the concerns raised by the awesome members of our community."