but before I do, just one thing to point out after reading other people's feedback so far, and your responses....
You have mentioned Zelda a couple of times (I will assume Link to the past). What that game does that yours doesn't seem to (like I say, not played it myself just yet), is gradually push you in the right direction, and it sometimes does it without you knowing it has done so. Little things like only being able to access certain areas once you have certain weapons, npcs that give you hints on where to go all over the place...etc
It's all well and good having really good design of the graphics, and sound, and missions and whatnot, but if people are feeling lost from the get go, the majority of your customers are going to give up before they see any of that in action. Once people are more invested in the game, then you can be a bit more hardcore with them.
Don't feel too down though mate.. Nintendo are the kings of player guidance, and it would be hard to beat them.
ahh right. I personally don't think that has stood the test of time too well. (just my opinion) Playing link to the past is still a great experience, playing zelda 1, really isn't all that fun these days.....a sign of the times I guess.
I just bought it and I must say that I love the gameplay!!! It was hard at the beginning with the controls...it's the first time I'm seeing this kind of controls.
Well I've read everyones feedback over a loooonnnngggg cuppa tea....
Sounds like it improves once you get what its about, and get used to the controls... I'll go take a look now before I hit the hay...
Well done Photics on finishing this massive project...I hope you only need to do a couple of things to it (in game tips, easier control, easier gameplay to start off with) to make the game successful...
Either way I bet you've learnt a tonne doing it... ready to write the Unofficial GameSalad Guide 2... "The revenge"...
I have to say i sort of expected this mainly because i could tell BOT was an exploring game and devs just don't have the patience for it. I think his real audience is limited, its not the casual fans but the real explorer fans etc. I think a lot of tips here are to make it more average-personality-friendly which is something you need to decide- you've made the game you want to play, possible others like you as well, will you tweak it for the rest of us?
i know a lot of the feedback was hot off the plate but the issues that keep being mentioned are probably worth looking into.
I think a little bit of it is that u are stuck in the late 90s - hoping to recreate fond gaming memories of trial and error but a lot have moved on - we don't want to spend more then 15-20 mins of time on a game and see that NOT count towards our overall progress so autosaves & checkpoints!
Health dropping - instead of newly placing pickups in new locations, just set it to recover over set amount of time - that's what a lot of new games do and it doesn't change the balance much if the time to recover is slow, but gives the player a bit of reassurance to go explore without having to remember the way back.
2-3 issues update released within 1-2 weeks, right as rain imo
Well, it looks good, but it doesn't feel complete. It felt like, as soon as I started, I was on the 3rd world or something with no easy tutorial level. Your goal of having no text sounds great, but in reality it sucks for anybody not following this thread; people said it above I think, but there must be NPCs, signs, a map, a tutorial, anything really (preferably all of those things), to help people get started at least.
And just so you know, the area where you touch to shoot and the one you touch to tap are impossibly close, nobody would ever know they're there.
I think your recent releases problem is related to when you set if for sale. When you get that notification from Apple you should set it to sale right away because the new release list is based on the EARLIER of approval and the date you make the app available. This is why you want to set the availability date way in the future then move it forward the moment an app is approved.
I thought this was common knowledge for people developing apps as it is very important.
Anyways, played the game, frustrated the hell out of me, but I did get a kick out of skimming the forum.
I think the game does have potential so hopefully after things sink in for a few days you are ready to evaluate things and dive back in on app improvements.
Actually that is the beauty of the app store vs a console game- if the game ships on a dvd or a cartridge like in olden times- if you miss you miss and the game is done. At least with the app store you can create a great update and all your customers will see it and many will give you a second chance. That is an amazing opportunity and like I said the game has a lot of potential so polish it up and I think it will do fine for you.
And this is coming from someone in the middle of a complete overhaul and update of an app. Just part of the App Store.
@greenrhyno - I did not know that. I would always set it forward 24 hours. So if it was approved on say the 16th, i would then set it to the 17th for release. So you're saying if it gets accepted on the 16th then change the release to the 16th? If thats the case, what happens if its approved at say 10pm that night?
beefy_clyro said: @greenrhyno - I did not know that. I would always set it forward 24 hours. So if it was approved on say the 16th, i would then set it to the 17th for release. So you're saying if it gets accepted on the 16th then change the release to the 16th? If thats the case, what happens if its approved at say 10pm that night?
Don't want to hijack the thread. Looks like the system may have been fixed but there doesn't seem to be a consensus. It's been a while since I released an app. There are multiple apps released a day though so you'll usually start a few spots down regardless. It used to show the new releases each day in alphabetical order, not sure if this is still the case either. Sorry to sidetrack the thread.
I've put about 2 hours of time into Bot. For reference, I have the Fire Gun maxed out and the Red Orb thing. While I agree that the controls are pretty wonky and not very precise, slapping a virtual joystick will make the game too easy I think. I think the game would have to be pretty much completely re-tuned for a virtual joystick. I give Photics a lot of credit for trying a different control scheme. Having said that, even after two hours of playing, I still struggle with the controls and I think it's definitely Bot's biggest problem. The controls are the interface with your character. Ideally, you should feel like you become one with your character as the interface melts away. With Bot's controls, I'm constantly reminded of the controls because the character isn't doing what I want him to do.
A visual (non-text-based) tutorial would be helpful and some kind of alternate save options would prevent a lot of frustration (perhaps there are additional repair shops in the game that I haven't seen though).
I ran into two bugs. When you have the Red Orb equipped and go into the repair shop, when you leave, it is unequipped. When you die, it does not equip the upgrades you had equipped at the time of your last save.
It's obvious that Bot was a labor of love and an extreme amount of work, thought, and care went into it. Stick with it, Photics! Bot is not a lost cause! It just needs some fixes and it can be a really great game.
On a happier note, you're #115 in adventure, not too shabby Photics That's an EXCELLENT ranking, and if you update according to feedback, this could be good...
You're also #53 in Role playing, nestled next to Final Fantasy
Go to itunes, click on "games" from the drop down menu (from the App store), go to the categories section on the right column, and select either "Adventure" or "RPG", and click "top charts" paid apps, wallah.
Bought, played. Too little time on it, but it really has got me interested (: I love those kind of games though. Very nice for a gamesalad's game overall. Just some quick notes : controls are bad for me. They're design is clever, but they do not feel right for this kind of game. At least to me (: For example, since the sword (which is the stronger weapon at start) extend and doesnt "slash", you have to rotate to hit with it. And it's not as fast as it should be, rotating. Sometime you want to rotate, or shoot, or use the swords, and Bot walks instead. This is obviously due to the fact that the player is inexperienced at first, but I can see those kind of "mistakes" happening later on too, and in a game that heavily punishes you like BOT, it gives out too much frustration to die for a "control scheme" problem. If you're worried about the difficulty, the thrills and excitement comes just from the exploration, and the fact that if you die you lose everything, already puts you on the "spikes". I don't feel the need for really hard fights, I just wish I would not die due to controls just not feeling right (: I also like the fact that there is no text in the game. But I don't like the fact that there aren't cutscene (: (at least for now). Explaining the story without text can be done. It makes the player more "interested", and the deaths will feel less "waste of time". Just my opinion though, so take them with a pinch d: Really good game, it really suits my tastes.
butterbean said: Go to itunes, click on "games" from the drop down menu (from the App store), go to the categories section on the right column, and select either "Adventure" or "RPG", and click "top charts" paid apps, wallah.
You can see it from your device too.
Oh, the link from the top-ten section.
That is a good rank.
I'm tired today, but tomorrow I can look at BOT and make some changes.
Yes. take a rest today, work tomorrow. You can send it to Apple as a bug fix and they will put it "In Review" faster. I don't know how to get it though, I just remember seeing it once when I was adding an update to my game.
On a happier note, you're #115 in adventure, not too shabby Photics That's an EXCELLENT ranking, and if you update according to feedback, this could be good...
You're also #53 in Role playing, nestled next to Final Fantasy
That was temporary jump only beacuse of good work with attractive icon. Now he is 123 on adventure and 55 in role playing. User autometically spread our game if game play wise its good.
Well, i've now had about an hour in last night and about an hour again this morning and have to say ... im getting used to it Once you get the hang of the controls its much better but oh too many times, i am still dying because i cant get it lined up right, TANK is just rotating around, back and forth. Tweak this and it'll be MUCH better.
So now i know how do play im quite enjoying it. I've skipped the gun upgrades and gone straight to the laser. This is quality, it allows me to walk a bit, shoot the laser out and see if i get any hits, this means i dont just walk into a battle un-prepared. Its a way of getting to those enemies close by but just off screen. Then, they come to me, i keep it lined up and if they're not dead before they get to me i just hit em with the sword whan they get there. I see what you mean now Photics with the combo.
So yes now i think its better due to upgrading, getting my useful laser etc, but if truth be told ... If this wasnt your game, i simply would have stopped playing after 10 minutes. Unfortunately, this is how i see a lot of the app store people working.
I think you need the following;
A basic tutorial at the beginning.
More reward from the beginning, make a small objective very easy, something a 10 year old could figure out and achieve, this would give a sense of reward and excitement of things to come.
Definitely have ways of gaining health. Too many times i stray through a couple of areas, get some coinage, realise im low on health, try to make my way back but the damn things i've already killed are back as it loads the same area ... i get killed on the way! Frustrating! Give a way to get extra health to avoid needing to run back to the base every 5 minutes.
Saving - Man if you've gone far out its a pain in the ass to have to get back to base, especially if something pops up and you're in a rush! I would seriously suggest implementing a save at any point, either where you are or something that fast-tracks you back to the base to save normally. Either of these services should cost a bit more gold. Say 50 or so!
Controls - The sytem you have could and does work. Just tweak it. I too foten end up just spinning around! This isnt too bad if theres only 1 enemy, i just run away, come back on myself and then kicks its ass. However, if you are getting pinned down by 2 or 3 this tactic doesnt work so well. By the time you've gotten him to move after doing the spinny thing, youy're dead or as god damn near it!
Ways of having bigger life bars - As a solid looking machine, TANK is a bit of a pussy! It doesnt take much to die. I think considering the controls can be hard, i think you should implement a bigger health bar, as an upgrade of course, this would compensate for the troubles you can have in battle.
Also, regarding leaderboards, i could see you so shouldnt be a different country thing. I was however under one of my testing sand box accounts, keith (kc8), i have now logged in as beefy_clyro so you should see that score start knowcking about.
Hope that feedback has been good, trust me though when i say the above points would make the game sooooo much better and will appeal and keep entertained a much bigger audience.
I'm glad people seem to be starting to give BOT a chance. The problem was always going to be about our expectations of BOT, after all these months most of us predicted an 11/10 game. Our expectations were probably always too high. If photics had just started this thread last week and quickly released it then I think more positive comments about all the things he has achieved. Sure he raised the expectations but from a marketing point I think this was the right thing to do for a game of this size. He's also managed to 'impress' at least one senior member on TA about GameSalad which is a great thing for us all.
I've played it for about 2 hours so far so good, this things definitely a grower. Will really try to get in to it more at the weekend when I have more time. Visuals are great which was the thing I was most worried about. The controls however will put casual gamers off because of the different weapons. While I understand this is not Photics "target market" for BOT this category still makes up the biggest portion of iOS players so you really need a simple visual tutorial at the beginning followed by a few more clues regarding upgrades. I like how big the game feels. I can't see you getting too many complaints for 99c. Sort out the controls experience and I think this game really will go far. I'm also glad to see the GS community are leaving excellent itunes reviews so to counter-balance any initial negatives about the controls.
My biggest disappointment is the story (or lack of). I like my adventure games/rpgs to have a dialogue at the beginning and anticipation of the first task. However maybe that may also be part our fault, I don't remember many people of this thread asking you about the story/missions etc. I also don't remember too many asking to BETA test the game for you either?
Photics you can be stubborn at times (aka youtubegate) and I think you have made a few errors along BOT's journey but I still think you've done an amazing job and hope sales really pay off your hard work. Good luck mate!
Comments
but before I do, just one thing to point out after reading other people's feedback so far, and your responses....
You have mentioned Zelda a couple of times (I will assume Link to the past). What that game does that yours doesn't seem to (like I say, not played it myself just yet), is gradually push you in the right direction, and it sometimes does it without you knowing it has done so.
Little things like only being able to access certain areas once you have certain weapons, npcs that give you hints on where to go all over the place...etc
It's all well and good having really good design of the graphics, and sound, and missions and whatnot, but if people are feeling lost from the get go, the majority of your customers are going to give up before they see any of that in action.
Once people are more invested in the game, then you can be a bit more hardcore with them.
Don't feel too down though mate.. Nintendo are the kings of player guidance, and it would be hard to beat them.
He's was talking about the original Legend of Zelda.
scheme in-game.
ahh right.
I personally don't think that has stood the test of time too well. (just my opinion)
Playing link to the past is still a great experience, playing zelda 1, really isn't all that fun these days.....a sign of the times I guess.
I will get back with suggestions
There's a great summary on Touch Arcade...
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=1778071&postcount=17
Sounds like it improves once you get what its about, and get used to the controls... I'll go take a look now before I hit the hay...
Well done Photics on finishing this massive project...I hope you only need to do a couple of things to it (in game tips, easier control, easier gameplay to start off with) to make the game successful...
Either way I bet you've learnt a tonne doing it... ready to write the Unofficial GameSalad Guide 2... "The revenge"...
i know a lot of the feedback was hot off the plate but the issues that keep being mentioned are probably worth looking into.
I think a little bit of it is that u are stuck in the late 90s - hoping to recreate fond gaming memories of trial and error but a lot have moved on - we don't want to spend more then 15-20 mins of time on a game and see that NOT count towards our overall progress so autosaves & checkpoints!
Health dropping - instead of newly placing pickups in new locations, just set it to recover over set amount of time - that's what a lot of new games do and it doesn't change the balance much if the time to recover is slow, but gives the player a bit of reassurance to go explore without having to remember the way back.
2-3 issues update released within 1-2 weeks, right as rain imo
And just so you know, the area where you touch to shoot and the one you touch to tap are impossibly close, nobody would ever know they're there.
I thought this was common knowledge for people developing apps as it is very important.
Anyways, played the game, frustrated the hell out of me, but I did get a kick out of skimming the forum.
I think the game does have potential so hopefully after things sink in for a few days you are ready to evaluate things and dive back in on app improvements.
Actually that is the beauty of the app store vs a console game- if the game ships on a dvd or a cartridge like in olden times- if you miss you miss and the game is done. At least with the app store you can create a great update and all your customers will see it and many will give you a second chance. That is an amazing opportunity and like I said the game has a lot of potential so polish it up and I think it will do fine for you.
And this is coming from someone in the middle of a complete overhaul and update of an app. Just part of the App Store.
http://rx-games.com/app-store-release-dates-bug-fixed/
http://www.iphonedevsdk.com/forum/promotion-techniques/79589-availibilty-date-vs-release-date-bug-now-fixed.html
http://www.iphonedevsdk.com/forum/business-legal-app-store/66360-need-quick-release-advice.html
A visual (non-text-based) tutorial would be helpful and some kind of alternate save options would prevent a lot of frustration (perhaps there are additional repair shops in the game that I haven't seen though).
I ran into two bugs. When you have the Red Orb equipped and go into the repair shop, when you leave, it is unequipped. When you die, it does not equip the upgrades you had equipped at the time of your last save.
It's obvious that Bot was a labor of love and an extreme amount of work, thought, and care went into it. Stick with it, Photics! Bot is not a lost cause! It just needs some fixes and it can be a really great game.
- Jeff
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1720/screenshot20110614at535.png
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/984/screenshot20110614at512.png
On a happier note, you're #115 in adventure, not too shabby Photics
You're also #53 in Role playing, nestled next to Final Fantasy
My suggestion:
Take all the feedback you can get, fix and update the controls, and it could continue to do well
You are in a better position right now than most people, take advantage of this, listen to the players, and update this game!
You can see it from your device too.
Too little time on it, but it really has got me interested (: I love those kind of games though. Very nice for a gamesalad's game overall.
Just some quick notes : controls are bad for me. They're design is clever, but they do not feel right for this kind of game. At least to me (: For example, since the sword (which is the stronger weapon at start) extend and doesnt "slash", you have to rotate to hit with it. And it's not as fast as it should be, rotating. Sometime you want to rotate, or shoot, or use the swords, and Bot walks instead. This is obviously due to the fact that the player is inexperienced at first, but I can see those kind of "mistakes" happening later on too, and in a game that heavily punishes you like BOT, it gives out too much frustration to die for a "control scheme" problem.
If you're worried about the difficulty, the thrills and excitement comes just from the exploration, and the fact that if you die you lose everything, already puts you on the "spikes". I don't feel the need for really hard fights, I just wish I would not die due to controls just not feeling right (:
I also like the fact that there is no text in the game. But I don't like the fact that there aren't cutscene (: (at least for now). Explaining the story without text can be done. It makes the player more "interested", and the deaths will feel less "waste of time".
Just my opinion though, so take them with a pinch d: Really good game, it really suits my tastes.
That is a good rank.
I'm tired today, but tomorrow I can look at BOT and make some changes.
So now i know how do play im quite enjoying it. I've skipped the gun upgrades and gone straight to the laser. This is quality, it allows me to walk a bit, shoot the laser out and see if i get any hits, this means i dont just walk into a battle un-prepared. Its a way of getting to those enemies close by but just off screen. Then, they come to me, i keep it lined up and if they're not dead before they get to me i just hit em with the sword whan they get there. I see what you mean now Photics with the combo.
So yes now i think its better due to upgrading, getting my useful laser etc, but if truth be told ... If this wasnt your game, i simply would have stopped playing after 10 minutes. Unfortunately, this is how i see a lot of the app store people working.
I think you need the following;
A basic tutorial at the beginning.
More reward from the beginning, make a small objective very easy, something a 10 year old could figure out and achieve, this would give a sense of reward and excitement of things to come.
Definitely have ways of gaining health. Too many times i stray through a couple of areas, get some coinage, realise im low on health, try to make my way back but the damn things i've already killed are back as it loads the same area ... i get killed on the way! Frustrating! Give a way to get extra health to avoid needing to run back to the base every 5 minutes.
Saving - Man if you've gone far out its a pain in the ass to have to get back to base, especially if something pops up and you're in a rush! I would seriously suggest implementing a save at any point, either where you are or something that fast-tracks you back to the base to save normally. Either of these services should cost a bit more gold. Say 50 or so!
Controls - The sytem you have could and does work. Just tweak it. I too foten end up just spinning around! This isnt too bad if theres only 1 enemy, i just run away, come back on myself and then kicks its ass. However, if you are getting pinned down by 2 or 3 this tactic doesnt work so well. By the time you've gotten him to move after doing the spinny thing, youy're dead or as god damn near it!
Ways of having bigger life bars - As a solid looking machine, TANK is a bit of a pussy! It doesnt take much to die. I think considering the controls can be hard, i think you should implement a bigger health bar, as an upgrade of course, this would compensate for the troubles you can have in battle.
Also, regarding leaderboards, i could see you so shouldnt be a different country thing. I was however under one of my testing sand box accounts, keith (kc8), i have now logged in as beefy_clyro so you should see that score start knowcking about.
Hope that feedback has been good, trust me though when i say the above points would make the game sooooo much better and will appeal and keep entertained a much bigger audience.
I've played it for about 2 hours so far so good, this things definitely a grower. Will really try to get in to it more at the weekend when I have more time. Visuals are great which was the thing I was most worried about. The controls however will put casual gamers off because of the different weapons. While I understand this is not Photics "target market" for BOT this category still makes up the biggest portion of iOS players so you really need a simple visual tutorial at the beginning followed by a few more clues regarding upgrades. I like how big the game feels. I can't see you getting too many complaints for 99c. Sort out the controls experience and I think this game really will go far. I'm also glad to see the GS community are leaving excellent itunes reviews so to counter-balance any initial negatives about the controls.
My biggest disappointment is the story (or lack of). I like my adventure games/rpgs to have a dialogue at the beginning and anticipation of the first task. However maybe that may also be part our fault, I don't remember many people of this thread asking you about the story/missions etc. I also don't remember too many asking to BETA test the game for you either?
Photics you can be stubborn at times (aka youtubegate) and I think you have made a few errors along BOT's journey but I still think you've done an amazing job and hope sales really pay off your hard work. Good luck mate!