@Photics sorry my post isn't meant as a flaming post towards you... as you know i'm always neutral and objective... and don't take sides be it GS or users... i'm the one having growing pain... haha... i need to leap ahead... i think learning objective C would be the leap ahead for me... and will probably spend the next month trying to do that. it feels like... when i started play around with camera camera i started off with point and shoot and move towards DSLR... and now DSLR is becoming point and shoot and point and shoot is becoming more like DSLR... but for me i haven't used point and shoot for years regardless how good the quality gets, it'll never surpass DSLR... but i do think moving from point and shoot is a big step leap forward at least for myself...
anyway my my thoughts on how the two platform differs, trying to look at things objectively here... eventually corona will become more like game salad and game salad more like corona... and the time that it takes for that to happen is quite painful... but when it does happen... the app market won't be profitable unless we are really really good at it... everyone has a DSLR these days.. and to be a master photographer and to make money... you'll need to be the top...
but GS needs to remember that to make money or to get more users to sign up, they need to even work harder, because in business technological advancement is everything, people will pay whatever you command if your tool gives them competitive advantage. and right now the only advantage you are giving them is selling point and shoot so everyone can take photos for the price of DSLR... of course people will keep complaining... but anyway that's not the fault of development team... they are not the ones making these decisions..
So sadly we are just complaining hoping that the updates will come sooner at the wrong place to the wrong people... but what can we do ... that's how the system works here.
ultima said: @Photics sorry my post isn't meant as a flaming post towards you... as you know i'm always neutral and objective... and don't take sides be it GS or users... i'm the one having growing pain... haha... i need to leap ahead.
I didn't think that you meant to be antagonistic with your post. I liked what you wrote. It asked a good question... how do we move our apps forward? Because of the way things are setup right now, there's basically two main responses around here...
• It's not GameSalad, it's you • Go code
Neither are really acceptable answers to me. I think the future of development is with easy-to-use software like GameSalad. And as GameSalad improves, so will the games.
At least GameSalad got more engaged yesterday. The App of the Month, is a good idea. That gives the community something to do and it helps build up GameSalad's reputation.
Keep the tone of the text civil in here. You can have good debates without making personal attacks against members of the community, and everyone here has a right to voice their opinion, like it, or not.
There is a fine line between sarcasm and disrespect.
butterbean said: You can have good debates without making personal attacks against members of the community, and everyone here has a right to voice their opinion, like it, or not.
There is a fine line between sarcasm and disrespect.
I'm looking forward to seeing the new roadmap. My main gripes so far have been
* Introduction of new bugs in updates * Not supporting of core iPhone API's within a reasonable amount of time (Gamecenter, In app purchases, social networking).
Seriously, as a middleware provider GS should be aiming to have all of the core functionality implemented within 3 months of Apple releasing it. This seems pretty stock standard in the games industry, so I don't understand why we have to wait over a year to get these things.
What I don't get is why we're getting stuff like HTML5, which nobody can really use right now (but long term will be good) and things like IAP aren't being worked on. Especially social networking - this is a very basic way for us to promote our games and would probably take 1 coder a few weeks to implement - why isn't it being done? Why are features like HTML5 being prioritised above this?
To me it seems like making news is more important than giving GS customers the features they want. This is a sure fire quick way to lose customers, and it seems many people are moving over to Corona. I've been considering it for a while and I gotta say, if I don't get IAP in the next month or two I'll be making the move too.
I hope GS is actually listening to its customers - I want to stick with GS but if this feature lag continues I'll be making the move soon.
I don't think Corona is going to be their problem (unless it gets a GUI). I think it will be Stencyworks (just tried it and its awesome, and I mean awesome), which will supposedly export to ios sometime next month. GameMaker would also be a huge problem if YoYo ever got rid of their stupid publishing scheme.
I perused Stencylworks's forums and the freakin owner posts at least 2 or 3 times a day. I instantly fell in love. GS has gotten better on that, but there is no question they have much to learn on that issue.
I am rooting for GS, but I think it is good to bring up the competition because they need to be aware what their users are thinking. Also, the competition is directly relevant to the roadmap and its important for GS to keep up (or get ahead) if it wants to survive.
micksolo said: I'm looking forward to seeing the new roadmap. My main gripes so far have been
* Introduction of new bugs in updates * Not supporting of core iPhone API's within a reasonable amount of time (Gamecenter, In app purchases, social networking).
Seriously, as a middleware provider GS should be aiming to have all of the core functionality implemented within 3 months of Apple releasing it. This seems pretty stock standard in the games industry, so I don't understand why we have to wait over a year to get these things.
What I don't get is why we're getting stuff like HTML5, which nobody can really use right now (but long term will be good) and things like IAP aren't being worked on. Especially social networking - this is a very basic way for us to promote our games and would probably take 1 coder a few weeks to implement - why isn't it being done? Why are features like HTML5 being prioritised above this?
To me it seems like making news is more important than giving GS customers the features they want. This is a sure fire quick way to lose customers, and it seems many people are moving over to Corona. I've been considering it for a while and I gotta say, if I don't get IAP in the next month or two I'll be making the move too.
I hope GS is actually listening to its customers - I want to stick with GS but if this feature lag continues I'll be making the move soon.
I don't particularly care about IAP, but I do agree largely with your post.
GameCenter leaderboards were awesome - but it's been 3 months since then, and I can't understand why we haven't got GC Achievements yet.
What I will say to you is that if you are building great games in GS, then you'll build great games in whatever SDK you use, so if you do decide to go elsewhere, I wish you the best of luck.
However, using another SDK will not make !@#$% games magically better
dotsonj23 said: I don't think Corona is going to be their problem (unless it gets a GUI). I think it will be Stencyworks (just tried it and its awesome, and I mean awesome), which will supposedly export to ios sometime next month. GameMaker would also be a huge problem if YoYo ever got rid of their stupid publishing scheme.
I perused Stencylworks's forums and the freakin owner posts at least 2 or 3 times a day. I instantly fell in love. GS has gotten better on that, but there is no question they have much to learn on that issue.
I am rooting for GS, but I think it is good to bring up the competition because they need to be aware what their users are thinking. Also, the competition is directly relevant to the roadmap and its important for GS to keep up (or get ahead) if it wants to survive.
I tried stencylworks in January this year - and had some nice email convos with the owner. I also tried Corona in December last year.
However, I've stuck with GS. It's what I know, and I just felt incredibly unproductive trying to make a game while learning with something else that I could do much, much faster in GS (due to using it for so long).
Other SDKs have their issues too, believe me, you only have to look at their forums! And some people will try and 'recruit' you to other SDKs on *our* forums. They say it's 'simple', for example, and yet their games are bug-ridden and crash far too often.
If it's that easy, why are the games failing on very basic logic?
For that reason, I *don't* think it's productive to mention them on the GS Roadmap thread.
By all means, go look, go play, check them out. I know I did! But don't fool yourself that it'll be easy, or even as good as GS is right now, despite GS needing to step up a gear or 10!
that's def a 10. STEP ON IT GUYS... if the programmers are working day and night and still not getting the software to become awesome than obviously they have the wrong priority. and priorities came from top down... so the guys on top needs to seriously re-think about strategy. so far all i can see is GS is struggling on finding ways to become a profitable business while they should think about developing a better platform... i mean i seriously think had HTML 5 resource been spent on the core platform, their effort would have multiplied.. now... who's talking about HTML 5 and who's talking about marketplace.. if the hype is dying down now, i don't think it'll be successful unless miracle happens. and GS seems to have a lot of stubborn minds, i mean firemaple has to "threaten" to leave for them to change their mind... and he did as well... and just look at how many users is talking about leaving these days.
if your spouse is talking about divorce obviously you need to listen... besides... we are not even your spouse, we are your clients, and when we voice up we get nail down by the sous and some of the sous even admit that they are here to put down fires... I can only see history repeat itself... the riot in London happened because people are ignored for too long.. and it's really sad to see a neighborhood being treated that way that all they can resort to is violance. my hearts really goes out to the ones who's voices are suppressed
sorry if this offended any sous ... most of you are uber amazing people... and you know you are.
to recap... if you only think about Facebook for example, being blood sucking vampire as it is now,, the priority at first wasn't to make money, and people fall in love with it, because when you really do what you say you'll do, the authenticity attracts followers, when you say one thing and do another, people have eyes they can see some of them just choose not to say anything.. the last i checked GS's tagline is game creation for everyone, that speaks passion... and the recent acts speaks otherwise.. more like $$ for GS first. HTML5 with your AD in it won't make you more money, sure the user base may surge at first.. but if the core value isn't compelling enough you'll end up loosing user again...sure market place might be lucrative, but how long will it last until people realize that every one else can pay the same price for the same graphics.
"Marketing is a Tax You Pay For Being Unremarkable"-- so become truly remarkable first GS, and rest assure we'll run out and tell everyone we know how much money we have made with GS and they should all spend $50000 on the platform as well.
P.S. i'm gonna go quite on this topic for a few weeks... i'm tired to even complain... you know why companies really spend time listen to customers that complain? because they are the ones who care enough to even complain, and usually they are the ones who's the most royal.. so let's see what happens... i'll stick around in non-yellow posts to help out users... no more complains until you guys shake up and shape up to be worthy of receiving complains.(taking up the precious time of your users)
What I will say to you is that if you are building great games in GS, then you'll build great games in whatever SDK you use, so if you do decide to go elsewhere, I wish you the best of luck.
I agree with you on that point, however there are still some very simple things we can't do in GS that really wouldn't require a whole lot of work. Custom collision boxes, joints, fast loading and saving, improved performance. These things do limit what you can and can't do in GS and wouldn't require a whole lot of work and should be necessary in any basic game engine.
SlickZeroHouston, TexasMember, Sous ChefPosts: 2,870
All those things you mentioned are on the Roadmap, and are coming soon. And I'm looking forward to all of them.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
dotsonj23 said: I don't think Corona is going to be their problem (unless it gets a GUI). I think it will be Stencyworks (just tried it and its awesome, and I mean awesome), which will supposedly export to ios sometime next month. GameMaker would also be a huge problem if YoYo ever got rid of their stupid publishing scheme.
I perused Stencylworks's forums and the freakin owner posts at least 2 or 3 times a day. I instantly fell in love. GS has gotten better on that, but there is no question they have much to learn on that issue.
I am rooting for GS, but I think it is good to bring up the competition because they need to be aware what their users are thinking. Also, the competition is directly relevant to the roadmap and its important for GS to keep up (or get ahead) if it wants to survive.
@ultima - You definitely have good points but I don't think its GS that the problem though to be honest. I think their investors have tied there hands and are driving the direction. Which is a problem. They really should not have invested if they where not going to let them Run the Company they way they thought it should be.
If they didn't get the investors money, we may not be using GS at all, so it's a mute point.
I've personally used Corona, and although with the help of a staff member there, who is a wonderful educator, I don't find it to be "fun", and it can be more exhausting making a game with their tool than with GS. There's no denying the steep learning curve from here to Corona, and you may be able to do basic things with it, but it will be a long-term struggle to make complex games.
micksolo said: I agree with you on that point, however there are still some very simple things we can't do in GS that really wouldn't require a whole lot of work. Custom collision boxes, joints, fast loading and saving, improved performance. These things do limit what you can and can't do in GS and wouldn't require a whole lot of work and should be necessary in any basic game engine.
And yet, if you had all those things it's NO GUARANTEE that you'll make a good game, is it?
And people here like tshirt and Gamesmold and StusApps have made good games AND made money from them. Using the software 'as is'.
On the flip side, would games like 'The Secret of Father Simons' be improved with any of the new features? Arrays would certainly help, but let's be honest. The guy that made Father Simon's is using the same software as FMG.
And it's not very good, is it? The two games couldn't be further apart in terms of basic quality...
So, while I'd love to see more features (like GameCenter Achievements for example, and arrays, and social media stuff) it doesn't actually help you make a better game at all.
And if you think you can make a better game in a different SDK, then please, give it a shot. If you're making very basic stuff then you might have some success. Having seen the output of people that have left here to go to Corona, I see games that are pretty !@#$% to be honest, on the whole, with extra 'features' like IAP and openfeint that honestly do not improve the game in any way.
I have a friend that made a lovely side scrolling shooter in Coco2SD or whatever it is. It shits on the one side scroller I've played made with Corona. But it's not the SDK - I mean , they have pretty much the same features as far as I can tell - he just makes BETTER games.
So yes, be frustrated at GS - I know I am sometimes - but also realise that it really is YOU that determines your game's success. Not the SDK.
Also, to the point that we sous chefs have to put out fires - yes, yes we do. Because GS it under attack a LOT. And usually it's by people that make !@#$% games and dream about new features that will 'help' their games.
Those new features *won't* help if your foundation is a !@#$% game.
I Agree with QS When he says it depends on you on making a good game, more than on the Engine you use.
But, There are some featured that can make you make different kind of games, that can possible make you win more money, Like In app Purchase. I Read a report at Distimo, that says that the Apps that win more money, where the ones that have In Ap Purchase.
So you can make a Good game payed, or you can make a game Free, with Interesting In App purchase, that can make you win more money (If your game is good and you have the good incentives for people to buy your in App stuff)
So, Yes, I think some featured CAN make you win more money, But As QS says, it depends on YOU!
MagoNicolas said: I Agree with QS When he says it depends on you on making a good game, more than on the Engine you use.
But, There are some featured that can make you make different kind of games, that can possible make you win more money, Like In app Purchase. I Read a report at Distimo, that says that the Apps that win more money, where the ones that have In Ap Purchase.
So you can make a Good gpayedame, or you can make a game Free, with Interesting In App purchase, that can make you win more money (If your game is good and you have the good incentives for people to buy your in App stuff)
So, Yes, I think some featured CAN make you win more money, But As QS says, it depends on YOU!
Cheers.
As you say, you need a good game first. Because if you have a !@#$% game, even for free, IAP are NOT going to help you.
Just like iAds didn't help most people.
Even if you have a reasonable game, using IAP wrongly will just piss off your customers. Paying for extra lives, for example, or better weapons, or anything that might give players a competitive edge.
We have a lot of kids on these forums, and I predict a bloodbath when we get IAP. If you thought GS's reputation was bad now, just wait till IAP come along...
But that's just my opinion of course
EDIT - I didn't mean to bad mouth ALL kids btw - sorry! There are plenty of adults that'll screw up IAPs and GS's rep too!
I agree with QS, while I'm excited about iAP, I'm a bit worried about how people will utilize this feature :O
gyroscopeI am here.Member, Sous Chef, PROPosts: 6,598
Spot-on comments from QS; although I have a different view than QS and Butterbean on IAP; if an app is rubbish to begin with and has the IAP feature, users just won't click on it, end of story there. Any possible further tarnishing of GS's reputation would have been made before the user's decision not to click.
@Gyro: Agreed, if a game is crap, there will be little to no iAP. You have to have a large volume of sales, & a great game, with depth before iAP will work. I've heard the transfer rate of iAP is very low, like 1%. So if you have 500 free sales a day, and offer the full version for .99 cents, that's only $5 a day, 1,000, that's still only $10 a day (minus 30% too!)
I think people are in for a shock, just like iAds.
I agree that it's the person behind the SDK, and not the SDK itself, but I also don't think it's as cut and dry as that.
GS still has improvements to make on load times, we still need arrays, and we can't make "any" game yet with GS, there are still some issues to be ironed out. But overall, I'm very pleased with GS, and hope they stick around for a very long time.
I've enjoyed seeing some real gems made by newer devs like izam (my personal favorite), eastbound, and recently, Gamer's Rejoice, as well as many more, it's exciting to see the bar being raised high by old devs and new!
SlickZeroHouston, TexasMember, Sous ChefPosts: 2,870
I already see IAP being abused like Tina Turner. It's going to be just like the template situation, a big money grab. Or some may think, anyway. It has it's benefits, but I see it being abused more so than implemented properly.
Like the sheep said, if it's used to buy something in the game to give you a better edge that cannot be acquired through normal gameplay, that's pretty lame in my opinion. Coming out with your game first, then having IAP for more levels that you make further down the road would be alright, but trying to fleece your customer base is unethical. And if your game is crap, it won't matter what else you have for IAP that people won't buy. There will be no player base to fleece.
Again, these are just my personal opinions on the matter.
butterbean said: I've enjoyed seeing some real gems made by newer devs like izam (my personal favorite), eastbound, and recently, Gamer's Rejoice, as well as many more, it's exciting to see the bar being raised high by old devs and new!
I have to agree - love seeing quality games being made by new and old alike
Of course an SDK will not make a crap game good. I don't think anyone is saying that. But I think there is no question that an sdk can make what would have been a good game be less than what it should be. Things like load times and really bad memory management and inability to release memory except between scenes are really big big issues. Remember there is a reason secret of grisly manor was redone in corona. Yes, you can work around those issues sometimes but it makes the game play suffer a little even on the best GS games.
Plus without arrays there are tons of types of games we can even make. I think the point that people are making is that in the effort to get the HTML 5 thing out (which by the way does absolutely nothing for game quality-just like IAP or iAds) they have clearly delayed fixes and features that are needed in order to not hamper the good games that are being made.
So in sum, an sdk will not make a crap game good, but it can make what should have been a good game less so.
Like the forums button, u just need to link it to the correct link(as far as I know of)
And like qs says, it is been almost 100 days since gc leader,we should get gc ach soon
I will love to have IAP in my game and hope it comes in 9.7(although it might not cause yoda says is more a preformence update
Calvin
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
dotsonj23 said: Remember there is a reason secret of grisly manor was redone in corona.
Yeah Secrets of Grisly Manor was redone in corona because of GameSalad Direct. Not lack of IAP. He made an Ass ton of money on the GameSalad version. So I don't think theres any complaints from joe there.
Just making sure everyone had that little fact straight. Keep up the Arguments of this and that and the other.
SlickZeroHouston, TexasMember, Sous ChefPosts: 2,870
You make some very good points, but I have to respectfully disagree on a few things. Everything that people have an issue with is pretty much in the roadmap, just not implemented yet. Load times and memory management i can totally agree with, but I'm not so harsh in the judgement in it not being implemented yet. Arrays are coming, and that's what will open things up ten fold. That, and joints.
HTML5 is a baby right now for us, but it has so much potential, it's where the web is heading towards. It's clunky, and choppy right now, but in time it will be industry standard, so you gotta start somewhere.
Yes GameSalad has turned toward the money direction, but isn't that what free market and business is all about? I have no problem with GameSalad making a profit, that's what business 101 teaches you. For us to say, "Shame on you GameSalad for trying to make money in your endeavours" is pretty much ridiculous. Yes we want new features, but regardless of how much we complain, it's not going to make it happen any faster than they are capable of.
dotsonj23 said: Of course an SDK will not make a crap game good. I don't think anyone is saying that. But I think there is no question that an sdk can make what would have been a good game be less than what it should be.
A *lot* of people are saying that. I just saw someone this evening on the forum get less than 50 sales in two days and his immediate thought was 'shoud I learn Xcode or go use Corona'.
As if that would make a difference.
dotsonj23 said: Things like load times and really bad memory management and inability to release memory except between scenes are really big big issues. Remember there is a reason secret of grisly manor was redone in corona. Yes, you can work around those issues sometimes but it makes the game play suffer a little even on the best GS games.
And I've seen plenty of Corona games that crash (I'm assuming due to poor memory management, which you have to do manually) and also have long wait times (waiting for it to log into Openfeint, when you've already said 'I don't want to use Openfeint' took upwards of 15 seconds every time I got a high score - 15 seconds where I was looking at a static screen doing nothing).
If you think that the grass is infinitely greener on the other side, then please, be my guest, go try it out. The reality will shock you if you think GS is the only SDK with quirks and issues you have to work around.
dotsonj23 said: Plus without arrays there are tons of types of games we can even make.
This is true. Though having said that, I tried a little experiment making a text adventure game the other day, and it's amazing what you can do with a little creative thinking - even without arrays!
dotsonj23 said: I think the point that people are making is that in the effort to get the HTML 5 thing out (which by the way does absolutely nothing for game quality-just like IAP or iAds) they have clearly delayed fixes and features that are needed...
I agree with the above
dotsonj23 said: So in sum, an sdk will not make a crap game good, but it can make what should have been a good game less so.
It hasn't stopped good games from being successful though. You mention Grisly Manor, which was a hit using GameSalad. It made lots and lots of money *before* it was converted.
Sure, performance could be better. Load times could be better. We could really do with arrays and achievements and social media stuff.
But to suggest that our games suffer because of the lack of this stuff is disingenuous I feel. Plenty of people have made plenty of money working within GS's 'limitations'.
tenrdrmer said: Yeah Secrets of Grisly Manor was redone in corona because of GameSalad Direct. Not lack of IAP. He made an Ass ton of money on the GameSalad version. So I don't think theres any complaints from joe there.
Just making sure everyone had that little fact straight. Keep up the Arguments of this and that and the other. </block quote
I did not say it was cause of IAP. Of course it wasn't and I was not even arguing for IAP anyway, but other fixes. And yes the GS direct thing played a role I understand, but I also thought I read that it also had to do with load times and performance. Could be wrong. But even if I am, the corona version does simply run better. And that's my point. Screw IAP, IAds, HTML 5 (none of which add anything to actual gameplay), let's get the memory problems and load times fixed before anything else. Then arrays, custom collision shapes, and paths. Do that and you can then pretty much make any type of 2d game you can think of. That should be the goal (not the specific features I listed but getting this thing outta beta and where it can actually make all types of 2d games)
QS, if people think switching to a different SDK will make their crap games better, then I agree with you, that is stupid. I Also Agree that you can make great games with GS. There are plenty that I myself have bought. I am not looking to leave GS. But that does not mean I won't check out the competition and use it where convenient or where a feature is needed that GS does not offer. But there is nothing wrong with letting GS know how I feel and how I think they have got their priorities a little mixed up. Yes they have to ame money, of course. But getting this thing outta Betta has to be the first step to that goal. You can,t really expect to make money on Betta software unless your just looking for a buyout, which I gotta tell you that where the whole HTML 5 things make me feel like this is going. I hope not.
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Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
also I want 0.9.7 and the roadmap badly
also weswog check your Skype
____________
http://www.thatgameforum.com/
http://gshelper.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/GameSaladCookbook#p/
http://gamesalad.com/wiki/
http://www.deepblueapps.com/Deep_Blue_Ideas_Ltd./Home.html
http://www.gamesalad.es/
http://thatgameforum.com/threads/gs-videos.360/
my email: calvin9403@hotmail.com
my skype: calvin9403
anyway my my thoughts on how the two platform differs, trying to look at things objectively here... eventually corona will become more like game salad and game salad more like corona... and the time that it takes for that to happen is quite painful... but when it does happen... the app market won't be profitable unless we are really really good at it... everyone has a DSLR these days.. and to be a master photographer and to make money... you'll need to be the top...
but GS needs to remember that to make money or to get more users to sign up, they need to even work harder, because in business technological advancement is everything, people will pay whatever you command if your tool gives them competitive advantage. and right now the only advantage you are giving them is selling point and shoot so everyone can take photos for the price of DSLR... of course people will keep complaining... but anyway that's not the fault of development team... they are not the ones making these decisions..
So sadly we are just complaining hoping that the updates will come sooner at the wrong place to the wrong people... but what can we do ... that's how the system works here.
What impress me more, is that it is taking THAT long to give a Roadmap.
Hope next roadmaps is more accurate than the last one.
Btw, I Love Gamesalad Anyways, LOL. But would be awesome if they solve bugs faster.
• It's not GameSalad, it's you
• Go code
Neither are really acceptable answers to me. I think the future of development is with easy-to-use software like GameSalad. And as GameSalad improves, so will the games.
At least GameSalad got more engaged yesterday. The App of the Month, is a good idea. That gives the community something to do and it helps build up GameSalad's reputation.
Keep the tone of the text civil in here. You can have good debates without making personal attacks against members of the community, and everyone here has a right to voice their opinion, like it, or not.
There is a fine line between sarcasm and disrespect.
* Introduction of new bugs in updates
* Not supporting of core iPhone API's within a reasonable amount of time (Gamecenter, In app purchases, social networking).
Seriously, as a middleware provider GS should be aiming to have all of the core functionality implemented within 3 months of Apple releasing it. This seems pretty stock standard in the games industry, so I don't understand why we have to wait over a year to get these things.
What I don't get is why we're getting stuff like HTML5, which nobody can really use right now (but long term will be good) and things like IAP aren't being worked on. Especially social networking - this is a very basic way for us to promote our games and would probably take 1 coder a few weeks to implement - why isn't it being done? Why are features like HTML5 being prioritised above this?
To me it seems like making news is more important than giving GS customers the features they want. This is a sure fire quick way to lose customers, and it seems many people are moving over to Corona. I've been considering it for a while and I gotta say, if I don't get IAP in the next month or two I'll be making the move too.
I hope GS is actually listening to its customers - I want to stick with GS but if this feature lag continues I'll be making the move soon.
I perused Stencylworks's forums and the freakin owner posts at least 2 or 3 times a day. I instantly fell in love. GS has gotten better on that, but there is no question they have much to learn on that issue.
I am rooting for GS, but I think it is good to bring up the competition because they need to be aware what their users are thinking. Also, the competition is directly relevant to the roadmap and its important for GS to keep up (or get ahead) if it wants to survive.
GameCenter leaderboards were awesome - but it's been 3 months since then, and I can't understand why we haven't got GC Achievements yet.
What I will say to you is that if you are building great games in GS, then you'll build great games in whatever SDK you use, so if you do decide to go elsewhere, I wish you the best of luck.
However, using another SDK will not make !@#$% games magically better
However, I've stuck with GS. It's what I know, and I just felt incredibly unproductive trying to make a game while learning with something else that I could do much, much faster in GS (due to using it for so long).
Other SDKs have their issues too, believe me, you only have to look at their forums! And some people will try and 'recruit' you to other SDKs on *our* forums. They say it's 'simple', for example, and yet their games are bug-ridden and crash far too often.
If it's that easy, why are the games failing on very basic logic?
For that reason, I *don't* think it's productive to mention them on the GS Roadmap thread.
By all means, go look, go play, check them out. I know I did! But don't fool yourself that it'll be easy, or even as good as GS is right now, despite GS needing to step up a gear or 10!
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
if your spouse is talking about divorce obviously you need to listen... besides... we are not even your spouse, we are your clients, and when we voice up we get nail down by the sous and some of the sous even admit that they are here to put down fires... I can only see history repeat itself... the riot in London happened because people are ignored for too long.. and it's really sad to see a neighborhood being treated that way that all they can resort to is violance. my hearts really goes out to the ones who's voices are suppressed
sorry if this offended any sous ... most of you are uber amazing people... and you know you are.
to recap... if you only think about Facebook for example, being blood sucking vampire as it is now,, the priority at first wasn't to make money, and people fall in love with it, because when you really do what you say you'll do, the authenticity attracts followers, when you say one thing and do another, people have eyes they can see some of them just choose not to say anything.. the last i checked GS's tagline is game creation for everyone, that speaks passion... and the recent acts speaks otherwise.. more like $$ for GS first. HTML5 with your AD in it won't make you more money, sure the user base may surge at first.. but if the core value isn't compelling enough you'll end up loosing user again...sure market place might be lucrative, but how long will it last until people realize that every one else can pay the same price for the same graphics.
"Marketing is a Tax You Pay For Being Unremarkable"-- so become truly remarkable first GS, and rest assure we'll run out and tell everyone we know how much money we have made with GS and they should all spend $50000 on the platform as well.
P.S. i'm gonna go quite on this topic for a few weeks... i'm tired to even complain... you know why companies really spend time listen to customers that complain? because they are the ones who care enough to even complain, and usually they are the ones who's the most royal.. so let's see what happens... i'll stick around in non-yellow posts to help out users... no more complains until you guys shake up and shape up to be worthy of receiving complains.(taking up the precious time of your users)
Doesn't speak well for stencylworks.
@ultima - You definitely have good points but I don't think its GS that the problem though to be honest. I think their investors have tied there hands and are driving the direction. Which is a problem. They really should not have invested if they where not going to let them Run the Company they way they thought it should be.
If they didn't get the investors money, we may not be using GS at all, so it's a mute point.
I've personally used Corona, and although with the help of a staff member there, who is a wonderful educator, I don't find it to be "fun", and it can be more exhausting making a game with their tool than with GS. There's no denying the steep learning curve from here to Corona, and you may be able to do basic things with it, but it will be a long-term struggle to make complex games.
And people here like tshirt and Gamesmold and StusApps have made good games AND made money from them. Using the software 'as is'.
On the flip side, would games like 'The Secret of Father Simons' be improved with any of the new features? Arrays would certainly help, but let's be honest. The guy that made Father Simon's is using the same software as FMG.
And it's not very good, is it? The two games couldn't be further apart in terms of basic quality...
So, while I'd love to see more features (like GameCenter Achievements for example, and arrays, and social media stuff) it doesn't actually help you make a better game at all.
And if you think you can make a better game in a different SDK, then please, give it a shot. If you're making very basic stuff then you might have some success. Having seen the output of people that have left here to go to Corona, I see games that are pretty !@#$% to be honest, on the whole, with extra 'features' like IAP and openfeint that honestly do not improve the game in any way.
I have a friend that made a lovely side scrolling shooter in Coco2SD or whatever it is. It shits on the one side scroller I've played made with Corona. But it's not the SDK - I mean , they have pretty much the same features as far as I can tell - he just makes BETTER games.
So yes, be frustrated at GS - I know I am sometimes - but also realise that it really is YOU that determines your game's success. Not the SDK.
Also, to the point that we sous chefs have to put out fires - yes, yes we do. Because GS it under attack a LOT. And usually it's by people that make !@#$% games and dream about new features that will 'help' their games.
Those new features *won't* help if your foundation is a !@#$% game.
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
But, There are some featured that can make you make different kind of games, that can possible make you win more money, Like In app Purchase.
I Read a report at Distimo, that says that the Apps that win more money, where the ones that have In Ap Purchase.
So you can make a Good game payed, or you can make a game Free, with Interesting In App purchase, that can make you win more money (If your game is good and you have the good incentives for people to buy your in App stuff)
So, Yes, I think some featured CAN make you win more money, But As QS says, it depends on YOU!
Cheers.
Just like iAds didn't help most people.
Even if you have a reasonable game, using IAP wrongly will just piss off your customers. Paying for extra lives, for example, or better weapons, or anything that might give players a competitive edge.
We have a lot of kids on these forums, and I predict a bloodbath when we get IAP. If you thought GS's reputation was bad now, just wait till IAP come along...
But that's just my opinion of course
EDIT - I didn't mean to bad mouth ALL kids btw - sorry! There are plenty of adults that'll screw up IAPs and GS's rep too!
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
""You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike." - Zork temp domain http://spidergriffin.wix.com/alphaghostapps
I think people are in for a shock, just like iAds.
I agree that it's the person behind the SDK, and not the SDK itself, but I also don't think it's as cut and dry as that.
GS still has improvements to make on load times, we still need arrays, and we can't make "any" game yet with GS, there are still some issues to be ironed out. But overall, I'm very pleased with GS, and hope they stick around for a very long time.
I've enjoyed seeing some real gems made by newer devs like izam (my personal favorite), eastbound, and recently, Gamer's Rejoice, as well as many more, it's exciting to see the bar being raised high by old devs and new!
I already see IAP being abused like Tina Turner. It's going to be just like the template situation, a big money grab. Or some may think, anyway. It has it's benefits, but I see it being abused more so than implemented properly.
Like the sheep said, if it's used to buy something in the game to give you a better edge that cannot be acquired through normal gameplay, that's pretty lame in my opinion. Coming out with your game first, then having IAP for more levels that you make further down the road would be alright, but trying to fleece your customer base is unethical. And if your game is crap, it won't matter what else you have for IAP that people won't buy. There will be no player base to fleece.
Again, these are just my personal opinions on the matter.
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
suffer a little even on the best GS games.
Plus without arrays there are tons of types of games we can even make. I think the point that people are making is that in the effort to get the HTML 5 thing out (which by the way does absolutely nothing for game quality-just like IAP or iAds) they have clearly delayed fixes and features that are needed in order to not hamper the good games that are being made.
So in sum, an sdk will not make a crap game good, but it can make what should have been a good game less so.
Like the forums button, u just need to link it to the correct link(as far as I know of)
And like qs says, it is been almost 100 days since gc leader,we should get gc ach soon
I will love to have IAP in my game and hope it comes in 9.7(although it might not cause yoda says is more a preformence update
Calvin
Just making sure everyone had that little fact straight. Keep up the Arguments of this and that and the other.
HTML5 is a baby right now for us, but it has so much potential, it's where the web is heading towards. It's clunky, and choppy right now, but in time it will be industry standard, so you gotta start somewhere.
Yes GameSalad has turned toward the money direction, but isn't that what free market and business is all about? I have no problem with GameSalad making a profit, that's what business 101 teaches you. For us to say, "Shame on you GameSalad for trying to make money in your endeavours" is pretty much ridiculous. Yes we want new features, but regardless of how much we complain, it's not going to make it happen any faster than they are capable of.
As if that would make a difference. And I've seen plenty of Corona games that crash (I'm assuming due to poor memory management, which you have to do manually) and also have long wait times (waiting for it to log into Openfeint, when you've already said 'I don't want to use Openfeint' took upwards of 15 seconds every time I got a high score - 15 seconds where I was looking at a static screen doing nothing).
If you think that the grass is infinitely greener on the other side, then please, be my guest, go try it out. The reality will shock you if you think GS is the only SDK with quirks and issues you have to work around. This is true. Though having said that, I tried a little experiment making a text adventure game the other day, and it's amazing what you can do with a little creative thinking - even without arrays!
Sure, performance could be better. Load times could be better. We could really do with arrays and achievements and social media stuff.
But to suggest that our games suffer because of the lack of this stuff is disingenuous I feel. Plenty of people have made plenty of money working within GS's 'limitations'.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io