@marionwood said:
But I wouldn't start calling out professional programmers as if they were dumb, deceitful, or actually siphoning off money that should "invested in the product".
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his concerns, I know for a fact, through my inside contacts at GS, that @CodeWizard spent nearly $200,000 on a gold fedora which he wore only once and now uses it to keep his pens organized, and @ForumNinja has a bucket of 1998 Krug champagne delivered every morning just to dampen his often violent outbursts.
Well, @Socks, I really appreciate you stepping in and mentioning that, it kind of exonerates me - although I'm getting the distinct feeling that @marionwood and I are never going to see eye-to-eye on this... I mean, those are absolutely classic examples right there, of my worst fears confirmed... TBH, regardless of what marionwood claims, I was actually concerned that the money had been WASTED elsewhere, not 'syphoned' off, so I'd class this as my unknowingly being spot on, without my intent and words being twisted...
Ironically, marionwood, and we don't need to start a d*ck-waving contest here, I've probably been a developer for more years, on more systems, than most people here - 35+ years actually - QB, PICK, PDS, assembler, then C++, C#, to name a few, and yep, I COULD code games given enough FREE time to spend on learning a whole new language or dev system (and yes, I've tried Unity, but seems more focused on 3D, with 2D being a bodge), but like yourself (and I agree with you here, surprise, surprise) it IS a fast system to develop on, and as I have a full-time IT and software development job, run a retrogaming site and sales outlet, and no longer have the luxury of trying to add yet ANOTHER language and/or development system/set of processes under my belt, THAT is the only reason I've opted for trying to get into mobile game dev via Gamesalad. So yeah, been there, done that, still doing it, thanks...
...and so, despite your condescending remarks about my presumed (lack of) coding prowess, and therefore my ability to give opinions on feature implementation difficulty levels, THAT is why I feel I've more than enough experience to comment on how easy I assume (and yes, it's an assumption, I've not seen the code or the dev system) it to be to add something simple like a bloody grid snap function, merging projects/assets, UI mprovements, or even custom fonts... ...and let's be honest, GS managed to add more fonts into the system eventually, though the value that they bring to the system, in terms of usable game fonts, seems minimal/debatable in terms of differences to each other/the originals, compared to being able to inject/add your own fonts into a project, or even something else that might be useful - depth-based colour coding/outlines for nested behaviours to make it easier to marry up what's where on a more complex routine/set of behaviours, etc, etc, but I'm guessing like everything else, it'll probably never, if ever, happen(*)...
...(*) at least not in my lifetime....
On a final note, does it not speak volumes to you that despite my being incredibly busy with 2 full-time jobs, software development, and other commitments, I've felt the need to interject on this thread, and to spend so much of my scant free (and it's not really free, as now I'm behind on stuff!) time writing all of this?
That's because I'm obviously PRO-GS (the software/vision), NOT Anti-GS - I'm PASSIONATE about Gamesalad enough to be alarmed, saddened and frustrated by yet another possibility that all of the issues we deal with on a daily basis with it, are still going to be here for the foreseeable future, or worse, the whole enterprise ends up going down the toilet, because of bad decisions and lack of maintainance, with no hint/hope that WE, the paying customers, are going to be dealt with, with respect and understanding, to get the software working how it SHOULD have been working all of these years... I feel that despite some of these defensive posts, most of us must somewhere deep inside, have had the same concerns at many, many times during this last couple of years at least...
@Japster said:
GS managed to add more fonts into the system eventually, though the value that they bring to the system, in terms of usable game fonts, seems minimal/debatable in terms of differences to each other/the originals, compared to being able to inject/add your own fonts into a project
GameSalad has custom fonts, you can add any font you want.
@Japster said:
or even something else that might be useful - depth-based colour coding/outlines for nested behaviours to make it easier to marry up what's where on a more complex routine/set of behaviours, etc, etc, but I'm guessing like everything else, it'll probably never, if ever, happen(*)...
That would be great, it's something I've always thought about viewing a long list of rules, it tends to merge into an indistinct grey mass, it would be great to be able to do something as simple as colour your rules.
I thought I would never see custom / polygonal collision shapes or custom fonts, but these things can (and do) happen.
@Japster said:
or even something else that might be useful - depth-based colour coding/outlines for nested behaviours to make it easier to marry up what's where on a more complex routine/set of behaviours, etc, etc, but I'm guessing like everything else, it'll probably never, if ever, happen(*)...
@Socks said:
That would be great, it's something I've always thought about viewing a long list of rules, it tends to merge into an indistinct grey mass, it would be great to be able to do something as simple as colour your rules.
This is something I highlighted to @ForumNinja in my rather lengthy essay about changes I think will benefit the education market (though my suggestion wasn't as good as colour coding, but same result). This one is a really, really important one for education, so I hope it's one that's near the top of their list.
@Japster - I'd have understood your "it'll probably never happen" attitude a year ago, but over the past year so many things have happened. I just can't support such an attitude now. Custom fonts, custom collisions, video reward ads, lots of little additions and changes.
@Japster said:
GS managed to add more fonts into the system eventually, though the value that they bring to the system, in terms of usable game fonts, seems minimal/debatable in terms of differences to each other/the originals, compared to being able to inject/add your own fonts into a project
GameSalad has custom fonts, you can add any font you want.
@Japster said:
or even something else that might be useful - depth-based colour coding/outlines for nested behaviours to make it easier to marry up what's where on a more complex routine/set of behaviours, etc, etc, but I'm guessing like everything else, it'll probably never, if ever, happen(*)...
That would be great, it's something I've always thought about viewing a long list of rules, it tends to merge into an indistinct grey mass, it would be great to be able to do something as simple as colour your rules.
I thought I would never see custom / polygonal collision shapes or custom fonts, but these things can (and do) happen.
....in which case I stand corrected on that one point @Socks, and happy to be - I'll check into that, been busy developing and had pretty much given up on that becoming reality...
Also, I WILL admit that the custom collision shapes were VERY welcome - not used them yet, but a great example of something badly needed, that finally became available - like I say, it's not all bad on the software side, but my concern is the constant fear that the main bread and butter app and client base are somehow screwed by bad decisions and resources spent elsewhere, and things like not having a decent-sized team to support such a high-user-base product...
@Japster said:
Also, I WILL admit that the custom collision shapes were VERY welcome - not used them yet, but a great example of something badly needed, that finally became available
This one was so much bigger than a lot of people realise, too. I've used them constantly since they came out and even just yesterday I made something that would have been flat out impossible a year ago. The result was so much better than it could have been without custom collisions, and I honestly don't know now how I ever lived without them
CUSTOM FONTS are almost useless if you can not add aa outline to them..
games need to be colorful ex: pink background with green font is illegible unless the font has an outline like 99% of games.
@blob said:
CUSTOM FONTS are almost useless if you can not add aa outline to them..
games need to be colorful ex: pink background with green font is illegible unless the font has an outline like 99% of games.
Custom fonts aren't intended to replace all text in a game. You can still have outlined text, but you can also have lots of other text that fits the game and that you don't have to pre-render. Perfect? No, but lots of flexibility still.
@Armelline "I'd have understood your "it'll probably never happen" attitude a year ago, but over the past year so many things have happened. I just can't support such an attitude now. Custom fonts, custom collisions, video reward ads, lots of little additions and changes."
Thanks @Armelline, I do agree with you for the most part, and to be fair, upon reflection (and I gave them credit for it, some GREAT changes have come about in GS since the last 'bad old days', but my point was made because of my concern that yet again, resources and manpower are seemingly going to be pulled away from the developer side, and wholesale invested into 'education-centric' only changes, with no concern for how that affects their paying user base, because GS wants (maybe not NEEDS) more money to spend on frivolous purchases or risky ventures into unknown (even if potentially lucrative) territory...
@blob Ok - so you're actually worried I'm just a hobbyist? No I'm really not. I work maybe 3 days a week atm on projects in GS, though it has also sometimes been more as well as less. I have 3 published apps, 2 of them paid, and am currently working (for the last year) on a more complicated one (that I obviously hope will trump all the competition and win all the education awards in the world!)
But of all the things I've ever done in my life, mostly to do with Music or Academia, the price of GS as a main working tool is not high for the value I get out of it. Yes I need a reasonable laptop (which most people own anyway), but I don't need transport to work, expensive audio gear, state-of-the-art plugins, a high-end Violin or Saxophone, extortionate textbooks, or subscriptions to trade magazines. And I can make stuff that goes in people's pockets, which adds a huge value to my professional teaching and coaching on the other days of the week. A bunch of stuff I make never ends up on the app store, I just build an Android .apk and email it to someone who needs help with something, or I demo some kind of model in the classroom direct from my laptop to a projector.
Yes I have feature requests that haven't made it to GS yet, but so do I to Sibelius, and that's much more annoying, please don't get me started. So while I haven't staked my "entire" life on GS, I am deeply invested in it. But in the time since I published my first app, which is probably still the best of the three in any case, GS has unbelievably transformed for the better, despite the rollercoaster, and I don't want to whitewash that, especially at the exact moment the team is trying to reach out and start afresh.
And least we forget... how annoying is it every time Apple breaks stuff, and that they don't allow publishing with legacy X-code? I could rant about that maybe, but not the guys who work their asses off playing catch-up.
@blob said: @Armelline
YES YOUR RIGHT but i still find myself doing 85% of the text in Illustrator
I get what you're saying, but to me it seems pretty reasonable that fancy text with special effects has to be pre-rendered. The custom fonts are useful for things that don't require fancy effects and are difficult to render - dialogue boxes, level descriptions, stats tables etc. Those are the things people clamoured for custom fonts for - not static text elements, but ones that frequently change or are too numerous to realistically pre-render them. The custom fonts we now have are more than adequate for things like that. What you seem to want is quite different - text styling, I guess - and massively more difficult for GameSalad to implement. Even if they did implement it, they could never do it in a way that satisfied everyone, as they'd end up with a huge chunk of Illustrator in their app before they were done.
Great!! Soy our stance makes even less sense...
But i'm glad that this "fresh start with a team of one focused only on educational sale and features, sponsored in part by our developer subscriptions makes you so excited about the future. Good for you
@marionwood
Pay me a fee every month and i will built an amazing car for you
6 month later:
here is your car it has 3 wheel but the 4th wheel is coming soon.
another 6 month later.
keep paying me every month but let me inform you that i will be spending my time building boats as of now , your fourth wheel may or may not come at a later undefined date.......
@blob said: @marionwood
Pay me a fee every month and i will built an amazing car for you
6 month later:
here is your car it has 3 wheel but the 4th wheel is coming soon.
another 6 month later.
keep paying me every month but let me inform you that i will be spending my time building boats as of now , your fourth wheel may or may not come at a later undefined date.......
You're not paying GameSalad to make an amazing product for you, you're paying for use of the product that's there now. Any new features and improvements are to convince you to keep paying, but they're not the service being rendered.
You're not paying GameSalad to make an amazing product for you, you're paying for use of the product that's there now. Any new features and improvements are to convince you to keep paying, but they're not the service being rendered.
Agree with @Armelline if game salad today doesn't have what I need I shouldn't be making games with it. (Today it does have what I need so that is great). Our complaint shouldn't be that we are paying them to build something for us. Our complaint should be we are paying them to maintain something for us. Since I paid for a "PRO" account for a year, I still expect a "PRO" tool in a year from now. One where all the current features still work in the different platforms I publish to. One that its able to make professional quality games that are competitive on the platform. Today Gamesalad can do that. This Fall and Winter will it still be competitive equivalently as it is with the current iOS and features? As long as they are selling "PRO" accounts for a year, they should be expected to make a PRO tool for the year. Not sure if this is or is not their intention, hasn't been very clear.
@Armelline said:
You're not paying GameSalad to make an amazing product for you, you're paying for use of the product that's there now. Any new features and improvements are to convince you to keep paying, but they're not the service being rendered.
going back to my analogy and adjusting it :
@marionwood is buying a car planning to tour the death valley in nevada with it.hot hot hot place..
Pay me a fee every month and i will built an amazing car for you
6 month later:
here is your car but it has no AC
another 6 month later.
keep paying me every month but let me inform you that i will be spending my time building boats as of now , the AC may or may not come at a later undefined date.......
You're not paying GameSalad to make an amazing product for you, you're paying for use of the product that's there now. Any new features and improvements are to convince you to keep paying, but they're not the service being rendered.
Agree with @Armelline if game salad today doesn't have what I need I shouldn't be making games with it. (Today it does have what I need so that is great). Our complaint shouldn't be that we are paying them to build something for us. Our complaint should be we are paying them to maintain something for us. Since I paid for a "PRO" account for a year, I still expect a "PRO" tool in a year from now. One where all the current features still work in the different platforms I publish to. One that its able to make professional quality games that are competitive on the platform. Today Gamesalad can do that. This Fall and Winter will it still be competitive equivalently as it is with the current iOS and features? As long as they are selling "PRO" accounts for a year, they should be expected to make a PRO tool for the year. Not sure if this is or is not their intention, hasn't been very clear.
But seriously ,,,,,,,,,!00% agree and being not sure of their intention is the problem
no, I built my Limosine, I love it, I took my great trip, the aircon worked fine, I'm just paying you to keep gas in the tank. and hey, if you build a boat, I'll check out what great places I could visit in one! Bring it on!
A few interesting points made since my last post - @marionwood, although I can now clearly see from your last post why you're also pro-the education direction , I actually identify a lot with what you've mentioned in it, so it seems we both want the same thing in some respects, and both spend a lot of time using GS...
...and.... ironically (there's that word again!), as I fired up my GS tonight, what did I see, but a couple of updates for GS that I missed (actually a few) - I'd turned them off as each one seemed to break something new a while back... ...so now I can see a new FONTS tab, and various other cool fixes listed in the summary, so it looks like a few things have been sorted since I last dared upgrade - I've made the jump on this dev station, and will check to see how this latest build behaves!
I'm actually more optimistic at this point - I really hope that this newer-than-my-old-one version doesn't introduce any unwanted 'quirks' in my projects, but if not, then I'm a lot happier than I started out by this announcement....
@Japster Enjoy the updates, I am!
Respect, and I'll raise a glass with you to anyone else who remembers good ol' assembly language
I also agree that crushing the devs who were supporting GS was an all time low; so low that I can't quite believe no-one learned the lessons from it. I just hope that collaboration (sharing projects, exporting code etc) as mentioned way way earlier in this thread will be part of the future roadmap - for devs, educators and students alike.
Comments
Well, @Socks, I really appreciate you stepping in and mentioning that, it kind of exonerates me - although I'm getting the distinct feeling that @marionwood and I are never going to see eye-to-eye on this... I mean, those are absolutely classic examples right there, of my worst fears confirmed... TBH, regardless of what marionwood claims, I was actually concerned that the money had been WASTED elsewhere, not 'syphoned' off, so I'd class this as my unknowingly being spot on, without my intent and words being twisted...
Ironically, marionwood, and we don't need to start a d*ck-waving contest here, I've probably been a developer for more years, on more systems, than most people here - 35+ years actually - QB, PICK, PDS, assembler, then C++, C#, to name a few, and yep, I COULD code games given enough FREE time to spend on learning a whole new language or dev system (and yes, I've tried Unity, but seems more focused on 3D, with 2D being a bodge), but like yourself (and I agree with you here, surprise, surprise) it IS a fast system to develop on, and as I have a full-time IT and software development job, run a retrogaming site and sales outlet, and no longer have the luxury of trying to add yet ANOTHER language and/or development system/set of processes under my belt, THAT is the only reason I've opted for trying to get into mobile game dev via Gamesalad. So yeah, been there, done that, still doing it, thanks...
...and so, despite your condescending remarks about my presumed (lack of) coding prowess, and therefore my ability to give opinions on feature implementation difficulty levels, THAT is why I feel I've more than enough experience to comment on how easy I assume (and yes, it's an assumption, I've not seen the code or the dev system) it to be to add something simple like a bloody grid snap function, merging projects/assets, UI mprovements, or even custom fonts... ...and let's be honest, GS managed to add more fonts into the system eventually, though the value that they bring to the system, in terms of usable game fonts, seems minimal/debatable in terms of differences to each other/the originals, compared to being able to inject/add your own fonts into a project, or even something else that might be useful - depth-based colour coding/outlines for nested behaviours to make it easier to marry up what's where on a more complex routine/set of behaviours, etc, etc, but I'm guessing like everything else, it'll probably never, if ever, happen(*)...
...(*) at least not in my lifetime....
On a final note, does it not speak volumes to you that despite my being incredibly busy with 2 full-time jobs, software development, and other commitments, I've felt the need to interject on this thread, and to spend so much of my scant free (and it's not really free, as now I'm behind on stuff!) time writing all of this?
That's because I'm obviously PRO-GS (the software/vision), NOT Anti-GS - I'm PASSIONATE about Gamesalad enough to be alarmed, saddened and frustrated by yet another possibility that all of the issues we deal with on a daily basis with it, are still going to be here for the foreseeable future, or worse, the whole enterprise ends up going down the toilet, because of bad decisions and lack of maintainance, with no hint/hope that WE, the paying customers, are going to be dealt with, with respect and understanding, to get the software working how it SHOULD have been working all of these years... I feel that despite some of these defensive posts, most of us must somewhere deep inside, have had the same concerns at many, many times during this last couple of years at least...
"OUR TEACHER TOLD US THAT THE RABBIT WOULD BE ALIVE FOR A LONG TIME!"
ALL HE NEEDED WAS A GAME + SALAD TO RAISE ITS HEALTH AND SPIRIT"
I love this thread
lol
GameSalad has custom fonts, you can add any font you want.
That would be great, it's something I've always thought about viewing a long list of rules, it tends to merge into an indistinct grey mass, it would be great to be able to do something as simple as colour your rules.
I thought I would never see custom / polygonal collision shapes or custom fonts, but these things can (and do) happen.
It's got everything !
This is something I highlighted to @ForumNinja in my rather lengthy essay about changes I think will benefit the education market (though my suggestion wasn't as good as colour coding, but same result). This one is a really, really important one for education, so I hope it's one that's near the top of their list.
@Japster - I'd have understood your "it'll probably never happen" attitude a year ago, but over the past year so many things have happened. I just can't support such an attitude now. Custom fonts, custom collisions, video reward ads, lots of little additions and changes.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
....in which case I stand corrected on that one point @Socks, and happy to be - I'll check into that, been busy developing and had pretty much given up on that becoming reality...
Also, I WILL admit that the custom collision shapes were VERY welcome - not used them yet, but a great example of something badly needed, that finally became available - like I say, it's not all bad on the software side, but my concern is the constant fear that the main bread and butter app and client base are somehow screwed by bad decisions and resources spent elsewhere, and things like not having a decent-sized team to support such a high-user-base product...
This one was so much bigger than a lot of people realise, too. I've used them constantly since they came out and even just yesterday I made something that would have been flat out impossible a year ago. The result was so much better than it could have been without custom collisions, and I honestly don't know now how I ever lived without them
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
CUSTOM FONTS are almost useless if you can not add aa outline to them..
games need to be colorful ex: pink background with green font is illegible unless the font has an outline like 99% of games.
Custom fonts aren't intended to replace all text in a game. You can still have outlined text, but you can also have lots of other text that fits the game and that you don't have to pre-render. Perfect? No, but lots of flexibility still.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Thanks @Armelline, I do agree with you for the most part, and to be fair, upon reflection (and I gave them credit for it, some GREAT changes have come about in GS since the last 'bad old days', but my point was made because of my concern that yet again, resources and manpower are seemingly going to be pulled away from the developer side, and wholesale invested into 'education-centric' only changes, with no concern for how that affects their paying user base, because GS wants (maybe not NEEDS) more money to spend on frivolous purchases or risky ventures into unknown (even if potentially lucrative) territory...
@Armelline
YES YOUR RIGHT but i still find myself doing 85% of the text in Illustrator because![]
@blob Ok - so you're actually worried I'm just a hobbyist? No I'm really not. I work maybe 3 days a week atm on projects in GS, though it has also sometimes been more as well as less. I have 3 published apps, 2 of them paid, and am currently working (for the last year) on a more complicated one (that I obviously hope will trump all the competition and win all the education awards in the world!)
But of all the things I've ever done in my life, mostly to do with Music or Academia, the price of GS as a main working tool is not high for the value I get out of it. Yes I need a reasonable laptop (which most people own anyway), but I don't need transport to work, expensive audio gear, state-of-the-art plugins, a high-end Violin or Saxophone, extortionate textbooks, or subscriptions to trade magazines. And I can make stuff that goes in people's pockets, which adds a huge value to my professional teaching and coaching on the other days of the week. A bunch of stuff I make never ends up on the app store, I just build an Android .apk and email it to someone who needs help with something, or I demo some kind of model in the classroom direct from my laptop to a projector.
Yes I have feature requests that haven't made it to GS yet, but so do I to Sibelius, and that's much more annoying, please don't get me started. So while I haven't staked my "entire" life on GS, I am deeply invested in it. But in the time since I published my first app, which is probably still the best of the three in any case, GS has unbelievably transformed for the better, despite the rollercoaster, and I don't want to whitewash that, especially at the exact moment the team is trying to reach out and start afresh.
And least we forget... how annoying is it every time Apple breaks stuff, and that they don't allow publishing with legacy X-code? I could rant about that maybe, but not the guys who work their asses off playing catch-up.
I get what you're saying, but to me it seems pretty reasonable that fancy text with special effects has to be pre-rendered. The custom fonts are useful for things that don't require fancy effects and are difficult to render - dialogue boxes, level descriptions, stats tables etc. Those are the things people clamoured for custom fonts for - not static text elements, but ones that frequently change or are too numerous to realistically pre-render them. The custom fonts we now have are more than adequate for things like that. What you seem to want is quite different - text styling, I guess - and massively more difficult for GameSalad to implement. Even if they did implement it, they could never do it in a way that satisfied everyone, as they'd end up with a huge chunk of Illustrator in their app before they were done.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Great!! Soy our stance makes even less sense...
But i'm glad that this "fresh start with a team of one focused only on educational sale and features, sponsored in part by our developer subscriptions makes you so excited about the future. Good for you
@marionwood
Pay me a fee every month and i will built an amazing car for you
6 month later:
here is your car it has 3 wheel but the 4th wheel is coming soon.
another 6 month later.
keep paying me every month but let me inform you that i will be spending my time building boats as of now , your fourth wheel may or may not come at a later undefined date.......
You're not paying GameSalad to make an amazing product for you, you're paying for use of the product that's there now. Any new features and improvements are to convince you to keep paying, but they're not the service being rendered.
Contact me for custom work - Expert GS developer with 15 years of GS experience - Skype: armelline.support
Agree with @Armelline if game salad today doesn't have what I need I shouldn't be making games with it. (Today it does have what I need so that is great). Our complaint shouldn't be that we are paying them to build something for us. Our complaint should be we are paying them to maintain something for us. Since I paid for a "PRO" account for a year, I still expect a "PRO" tool in a year from now. One where all the current features still work in the different platforms I publish to. One that its able to make professional quality games that are competitive on the platform. Today Gamesalad can do that. This Fall and Winter will it still be competitive equivalently as it is with the current iOS and features? As long as they are selling "PRO" accounts for a year, they should be expected to make a PRO tool for the year. Not sure if this is or is not their intention, hasn't been very clear.
www.rossmanbrosgames.com
going back to my analogy and adjusting it :
@marionwood is buying a car planning to tour the death valley in nevada with it.hot hot hot place..
Pay me a fee every month and i will built an amazing car for you
6 month later:
here is your car but it has no AC
another 6 month later.
keep paying me every month but let me inform you that i will be spending my time building boats as of now , the AC may or may not come at a later undefined date.......
@marionwood is now left in limo not knowing if he will able to make his trip to the death valley
but he is happy about the news.... ahahahah
i think we're going stir crazy...
But seriously ,,,,,,,,,!00% agree and being not sure of their intention is the problem
no, I built my Limosine, I love it, I took my great trip, the aircon worked fine, I'm just paying you to keep gas in the tank. and hey, if you build a boat, I'll check out what great places I could visit in one! Bring it on!
Follow us: Twitter - Website
A few interesting points made since my last post - @marionwood, although I can now clearly see from your last post why you're also pro-the education direction
, I actually identify a lot with what you've mentioned in it, so it seems we both want the same thing in some respects, and both spend a lot of time using GS... 
...and.... ironically (there's that word again!), as I fired up my GS tonight, what did I see, but a couple of updates for GS that I missed (actually a few) - I'd turned them off as each one seemed to break something new a while back... ...so now I can see a new FONTS tab, and various other cool fixes listed in the summary, so it looks like a few things have been sorted since I last dared upgrade - I've made the jump on this dev station, and will check to see how this latest build behaves!
I'm actually more optimistic at this point - I really hope that this newer-than-my-old-one version doesn't introduce any unwanted 'quirks' in my projects, but if not, then I'm a lot happier than I started out by this announcement....
Soy milk is great for you better than cow milk but it needs to be organic as almost all soy grown in the US are GMO....
but i digress .....
@bdusing Please give us a roadmap related to developers and i''ll shut up..
no maybe, late,r eventually, stuff .... we can not make plans with that.
@Japster
Enjoy the updates, I am! 
Respect, and I'll raise a glass with you to anyone else who remembers good ol' assembly language
I also agree that crushing the devs who were supporting GS was an all time low; so low that I can't quite believe no-one learned the lessons from it. I just hope that collaboration (sharing projects, exporting code etc) as mentioned way way earlier in this thread will be part of the future roadmap - for devs, educators and students alike.