Pro, or not Pro... that is the question!
Photics
Member Posts: 4,172
I'm finally at the point in iOS development where it's better than If I had done nothing. In other words, I covered the cost of the hardware and software... but just barely. If I didn't buy that iMac, I wouldn't have published a book or created six GameSalad apps. Now that I'm finally getting ahead, I have to make that tough decision all over again. Do I upgrade GameSalad to Pro?
I'm realizing that the Pro version could make my games more successful and more profitable. Yet, how much more profitable? Is it enough to cover the costs? I don't know. It seems like I'd only just barely make a profit again.
In addition to the high price. Pro doesn't offer a lot. Hyperlinks, iAds and custom loading screens is not a lot. What else should Pro have?
If it had in-app purchases, that's a no brainer. Lots of MMORPGs are switching over to free-to-play but extra stuff costs money, so I think that business model could be successful for apps too.
If it had a Webview, that would be helpful too. I added a new suggestion on that forum...
http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=9972
So, I find myself waiting instead of making more money. Is Gendai Games going to drop the price of Pro? When will more features be added to Pro? I don't know. So instead of upgrading today, I keep running scenarios in my head. It seems a bit too risky to upgrade to Pro.
I'm realizing that the Pro version could make my games more successful and more profitable. Yet, how much more profitable? Is it enough to cover the costs? I don't know. It seems like I'd only just barely make a profit again.
In addition to the high price. Pro doesn't offer a lot. Hyperlinks, iAds and custom loading screens is not a lot. What else should Pro have?
If it had in-app purchases, that's a no brainer. Lots of MMORPGs are switching over to free-to-play but extra stuff costs money, so I think that business model could be successful for apps too.
If it had a Webview, that would be helpful too. I added a new suggestion on that forum...
http://gamesalad.com/forums/topic.php?id=9972
So, I find myself waiting instead of making more money. Is Gendai Games going to drop the price of Pro? When will more features be added to Pro? I don't know. So instead of upgrading today, I keep running scenarios in my head. It seems a bit too risky to upgrade to Pro.
Comments
Personally, and this is by no means a "I'm doing this so you should too" statement, I would wait until Pro drops in price to a reasonable sum, even $1k a year, and then buy it - or else I would wait until you have $4k in profit. (That's just based on the old webmaster formula.)
I think it's worth a lot simply because of iAds (if we're making lite versions anyway it's a good way to make a dollar or two, even if you don't get rich with it) and because being able to simply click to go straight to the app store to buy the full app is a big deal, IMHO.
Just my two cents - but congrats on covering your costs thus far - it's a great achievement when you have to buy a new Mac
// red.
How many devs get in the top 100 or 200? before we got featured we were selling like 0-10 copies of Bumps a day, imagine if we just sunk $2k into it? How long would it of took us to get the money back?
Approx 2850 apps a year you need to sell to break even (if i worked it out properly).
It's a massive lottery....and pro needs to come down in price so all GS users can afford it.
Darren.
However GS does has a very very bad reputation with press/reviewers.
Of course quality games will help turn the tide but i think the damage is already done as mud sticks.
We would be happy to put a custom "Made With GameSalad Pro" splash screen in if pro was lower in price.
Darren.
If the press are so against GS we will find it so much harder to get reviews and it's already really hard so we don't need any more obstacles imo.
Darren.
What it will do is help with marketing, brand development and cross promotion.
If you are going to develop iPhone games as a serious endeavor, say produce 5 or more serious games a year, and especially if you plan to do lite versions, go for it. You can make it so easy for your customers to access your other apps.
You can also develop your brand, which again, if you are viewing iPhone app development as a full time business, (or even a major part of your business) is vital. Just think of how many company names you remember from GameSalad developers. I think of Big Banana Apps and Fire Maple Games. Why, well they produce quality games of course, but they also have a prominent brand on their splash screens.
Just something to consider, IMO.
Oh, and I think iAds is NOT something to consider at this point.
1) It's not cool that GameSalad doesn't clarify the boundaries of Pro. I didn't know about the three support tickets thing. That means I can't just contact them to chat about sports or video games. I don't know how GameSalad works with clients. Can I charge a client when I make a game from scratch? Can I charge clients to modify games for express users? I don't think I'm interested in the latter, but the original could be quite lucrative. A company like coca-cola might pay tens-of-thousands of dollars for a good app. That's a new one to me and I've been a webmaster a long time.
I think iAds is interesting. Yet, do I have enough projects to make it worth it? Even if Arcade Action is a smash hit as an iAds app, how long will that spike last? If I make $10, $20 or even $100 a day... will it last a month or just a few days? Most iPhone apps have a spike and then they drop into obscurity. So, I'll probably need a decent app every 1-3 weeks. Can I do that?! I don't know.
About $6 a day in iAds revenue would justify the expense.
Essentially, Gendai's software is free. They are selling varied tiers of bundle compiling services. They should really switch to a pay-per-build pricing model.
If I had the ability to play with ALL of the options, but come build time I had to choose between an express bundle (which limits me to the essentials) or a pro bundle (which keeps all of the pro toys intact), I might be more inclined to pay the extra dough...
The other benefit (for Gendai and indie devs) is that you would only pay for what you use. The less you produce, the lass you pay. The more successful you are, the more you want to use the service...
I would pay $499 for PRO, but any more than that I can't justify right now.
What I really want is URL forwarding, and I'd be willing to pay $499 just to have that, but iAds really isn't work the 2,000 price tag.
Fill rates are getting better, but not where they should be. I'm better off making a more robust game and charging for it than doing a lite version and putting in iAds.
BUT that could all change.... iAds has improved over the last month, and could continue to improve where you could see more money coming in every day.
It's tough! But I think my mind is set on not paying 2K for PRO, even if I had the money.
Not only that, but when you have your own splash screen at least they have something interesting to look at to waste all that time that it takes to load. That way, the load feels shorter than just staring at the GS logo. I think that they should let us change the background of the normal GS splash screen from black to whatever we want but to keep the "made with gamesalad" with the GS logo on there. Then pros get the option to remove the logo and "made with gamesalad" text
i think the general voice is $500 for pro which is just about fair imo.
Darren.
Edit: Unity is a bit under 3k if you go pro, and it is a one time fee, not once a year. For that you get a powerful engine that can do Wii, Mac, PC, Web, XBox, iPhone, and Android with the same code. Plus its 2D and 3D. Yes one downside is you need to learn Javascript or C#, but you can do much more than GS will ever be capable of. In addition, the C# or Javascript will look good on your resume
My main concerns are hyperlinks and iAds. I've made about the same money in the last year on the Android Market... which is mostly advertisement based apps.
http://www.genesx.com/2010/08/iad-plugin-for-unity/
The other prices seem to be a bit more expensive...
https://store.unity3d.com/shop/
$4 for Unity iAds...there ya go
Darren.
I would buy pro if it was a one off payment and even willing to pay $2000.
I would also buy pro for $500 a year.
Darren.
What Game Salad does well are very simple 2D games in a very rapid development time.
If I made 10 games in a year Gendai would only get $500.
But, it is the updates where I think Gendai would start to make money. I would probably update each of those original 10 at least two times over the year, especially if they continued to add new features. So they would get another $1000 from my updates.
This I think would be a very cool way to do it. That way if I get super creative and make more games or updates, they start making more money. And if I get busy with other things I don't feel like I am wasting my yearly subscription (if I was Pro and paid $2000).
Ad hoc builds would still have to be free to make for testing.
http://unity3d.com/unity/licenses
If I'm understanding this correctly, the basic version of unity is free and the basic iPhone module is $300. I'd lose out on a lot of features, but it seems to be a lot more than what I have with GameSalad... including iAds and Open Url. The major drawback is that the license is limited to $100,000 a year... no big loss... if I make that much money I can upgrade... and there's a splash screen. Again, that's immaterial.
Plus, I could eventually port my games to Android... which seems to be a big problem for GameSalad.
So, it seems that upgrading Gamesalad to pro -- at $2000 per year -- is a very poor business decision. I could struggle with a more difficult gaming engine, but eventually make better games for more mobile devices.
Clients will demand that you make "white label" apps for them. You cannot have any other companies' logos on the products.
It is a cost of doing business. You absorb that price into the cost of the budgets for the projects.
And It is something you NEED to have. Just like you need to have chairs for your employees, and toilet paper in the office bathroom. And everything else.
Let's say that there is a new show for the Cartoon Network coming out. Turner contacts your firm and they want you to produce a website, posters, and two small iPhone Apps to market and promote the new show. The budget is $100K.
That is the situation that I am talking about.
If that is NOT you, then I DO NOT recommend paying the money for a Pro license.
If you are simply hoping that the features of a Pro license are going to bring you more money, then that is called gambling.
Being an entrepreneur involves risk. That's the nature of business. It's not the same as gambling. Otherwise, driving or eating could be considered gambling too. The problem with Pro is that the risk is too high. If I had a cartoon network level client lined up, that's a no-brainer. Obviously a paying client wouldn't want a GameSalad logo on their game.
Even as an independent developer, $6 a day in advertisement money isn't a high mark to reach. I'm fairly confident that I could reach that point. I'm not so much concerned about covering the costs. Rather, how big of a profit will I make? If after a year I make only $1000 more with Pro, that's a waste of my time.
I like Gendai Games and GameSalad. But unfortunately, it's a matter of good business. After looking at Unity, the cost of Pro just doesn't make financial sense.
You're paying $1,999 for iAds, and URL forwarding, the latter feature having more value.
iAds at this point isn't worth spending 2K for, so you're left with URL forwarding, which IMO is valuable once you have a nice library of apps, and you can cross market them with links.
2K is too much, and it needs to be lowered by at LEAST 1K for me to even CONSIDER getting PRO
If you look at it from a value perspective, and not even business, it's not worth it. Take out all the speculation of getting deals with companies, not having the splash screen etc. etc. It's still not worth 2,000 and I can't see that price tag being justified at this point in the game.
Even if they were to add Game Center, it might increase the value by some, but 2,000 is still too much.
@Firemaplegames: I sent you an email just earlier