Photics said: Once I release the light version of Arcade Action, that's it. That's my last chance to salvage my favorite GameSalad project. There's the initial spike. If the game doesn't get featured, it's spirals into a sea of forgotten apps. Even if it is featured, the downward spiral is still inevitable... but at least I'll have good memories. HA!
I have released "lite" versions before. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. That's not exactly what this is about. It's more about making the lite version the main version...
The master plan... 1) Release the app for free 2) Put in iAds 3) In-app purchase to remove ads 4) In-app purchases for additional content 5) House ads and links to the photics library
Just be a little careful before dropping $2000 to salvage 'Arcade Action'. I know you disagree with me on this but I think there were many other reasons arcade action flopped, nothing to do with it getting buried at release. Maybe setting a poll to ask whether you think that 'Arcade Action' would be a big success as a free game would be a more useful bit of market research to do, get some opinions on the game as that is a huge amount of money to invest in it.
StusApps said: Just be a little careful before dropping $2000 to salvage 'Arcade Action'. I know you disagree with me on this but I think there were many other reasons arcade action flopped, nothing to do with it getting buried at release. Maybe setting a poll to ask whether you think that 'Arcade Action' would be a big success as a free game would be a more useful bit of market research to do, get some opinions on the game as that is a huge amount of money to invest in it.
Well, I don't think it's nothing. I think if I had a normal launch, I would have seen at least some launch day sales. Yet, I do see the main point. Even if the game is a huge success, it's still just one game. There are other projects that I've been thinking about... with iAds and without.
Photics, I like you, your a good guy and I understand your torn between getting Pro or not, but its really not necessary for every post you make to discuss this. (I'm talking about all your posts, not just this thread).
Make a decision and get on with it. We understand your indecisive.
chosenonestudios said: Photics, I like you, your a good guy and I understand your torn between getting Pro or not, but its really not necessary for every post you make to discuss this. (I'm talking about all your posts, not just this thread).
Make a decision and get on with it. We understand your indecisive.
I disagree. There is good points for both the con and pro. This thread is interesting. Don't stop:) Personally would not do it. 2000$ is just crazy. And not so sure I would play an game ( even if it was free) with ads. In an app, maybe, but not in an game.
quantumsheep said: The research within shows that, on average, conversion rates from lite version to paid version are around 1%.
I have heard that the increase in sales from inApp purchasing is very good. To have a free game then sell bonus levels via inApp purchasing has proven to be a much more successful technique.
This is why inApp purchasing is high on my list of new features...but I hope they don't make it a pro feature...but I suspect they will since iAds went to the pro dept.
@Photics... perhaps part of the reason the game didn't do well...is there are other games that have similar tactics as yours...that being multi-games in 1. I think the most recent was 100 in 1. And they are priced at $1.
The game looks interesting definitely...but the competition is fierce and I am convinced that anything over $1...in this market must be absolutely amazing or already in the top 100...or the little kiddies won't spend their lunch money on it.
And I agree with some of the other posts...that its ALL ABOUT GRAPHICS on the app store to make sales. Your gameplay looks fun and exciting (as well as the promo-video) and the graphics are clean with some interesting visual effects...but I still think it feels a little flat.
Plus space games tend to be a dime a dozen...and I rarely see one in the top of the charts.
It seems like you have a knack for game dev...keep working at it and studying the app store to see what DOES sell. Then find something that works and then rework it to make it your own. But the graphics must be stellar to be a huge success.
chosenonestudios said: Make a decision and get on with it. We understand your indecisive.
The deadline for my decision is Thursday afternoon.
dhondon said: I disagree. There is good points for both the con and pro. This thread is interesting.
I agree. I think this thread is very insightful.
Should advertisements appear during the game? I think that's a big difference between what I'm planning. Yes, if I do this, there will be advertisements during the game. It's like a flash game with a banner on the page.
Maybe that's an incorrect perception, but I think the mobile market most closely resembles flash games. People are used to getting those games for free. That's why I think the advertising route could be a more successful path.
synthesis said: This is why inApp purchasing is high on my list of new features...but I hope they don't make it a pro feature...but I suspect they will since iAds went to the pro dept.
I think it makes sense for in-app purchases to go Pro. It seems that marketing/revenue related features are pro... custom loading pages, hyperlinks, iAds and I think in-app purchases. If Gendai Games released in-app purchases as an Express feature, I wouldn't need to upgrade to Pro.
Most strippers I know are earning money to pay for college. I've decided to start stripping to pay for my Pro license. With this body, I think I'll be able to accumulate $1999 by the time the iPhone has an A12 processor and 2GB of RAM.
Photics said: Should advertisements appear during the game? I think that's a big difference between what I'm planning. Yes, if I do this, there will be advertisements during the game. It's like a flash game with a banner on the page.
Maybe that's an incorrect perception, but I think the mobile market most closely resembles flash games. People are used to getting those games for free. That's why I think the advertising route could be a more successful path.
I think this is absolutely a wrong perception and that you may have missed the whole point of mobile gaming.
Namely, that it's 'mobile'
If you consider iPhone games the equivalent of flash games that you can pay for free, then yes, you could argue, 'I can play those for free'.
But you'd have to add 'At home. On a computer. With an internet connection.'
Canabalt is a great example here. It started as a flash game, which you could play for free. And I did. And it was wonderful. So I bought the game for my iPhone. I can now play it wherever I am. No internet connection required! No computer required!
I read an interview with Adam Saltsman recently where he wondered if they priced Canabalt wrongly at $3. They never got into the top 10. But I admire him for sticking to his guns at the time.
People were saying 'But you only do one thing - tap the screen. And there's a free flash version - why would I pay $3?'
Maybe for the convenience of playing it wherever you are?
Farmville is another good example. You can play that on Facebook, but there's also an iPhone version. Why do people pay for the iPhone version? Because when they're not at their computers, they can still play!
This is why I thought pause was so important. I play games a lot on the train, for example. They're a great way to pass the time. And in that scenario, there are multiple reasons why you might want to pause the game.
It's a convenience for the end user! For the people playing your games. HOW and WHEN they play has to be a big consideration when designing a game.
I guess it depends on your lifestyle. If you go out lots, are waiting for friends, are stuck in a long queue, are waiting for the bus etc etc... then iPhone games are a good distraction. You can't play those free flash games on your iPhone (Mr. Jobs saw to that!).
If you're indoors a lot, then you might not need to play games on your phone. But even then, it's fun to play while on the toilet, for example
Additionally, and correct me if I'm wrong, but most flash games will not save your progress from session to session.
What I'm essentially saying is that considering a player's needs when playing an iPhone game is paramount. It's mobile. And flash games aren't!
Nintendo has trounced Sony in the mobile arena because they understand this. People do not want to play console games on the bus. They want a quick fix of entertainment in a small unit they can carry anywhere.
Much like the iPhone
Cheers,
QS
Edit: I have no problem with iAds appearing in menus, or on the splash screen. I've done it myself after all with three titles.
But having them 'in-game' is a bad policy in my opinion. I think it could harm your 'brand' and put people off buying other games you make.
@Syn - I've not read up to the part about in-app purchases in the book, but my general impression (and this is just from reading reviews/comments on forums and the app store) is that people are not big fans of the system.
It seems that people want 'Free' to be 'Free' - asking them to buy additional content from a free game seems hypocritical to them.
But hey, I agree, there are situations where it could be seen as a good thing. Mainly in 'cosmetic' additions - things that don't give you an advantage in-game but let you personalise stuff.
Players find that customising stuff has some inherent value.
As long as it's thought through and not used willy nilly, then it can help. I personally don't think it's a 'must have' feature though.
Example of inApp... I got Sentinel 2 on a free day. It gave me 3 levels to play and 2 were locked. I enjoyed the game (still do)...its really well done. So I spent $1 and bought the other 2 levels.
Then there is FarmVille. Its free to download and play. But you can buy farm cash and farm coins with in app purchasing if you don't want to wait for days to earn them for free. The in app purchasing accelerates the game.
Then there is Field Runners. 3 maps come with the game for $2 or $3. Then you can buy additional maps to play for $1 a piece. This method allows you to sell a smaller version of the game at a lower price and then sell "expansion packs".
I don't see anything wrong with any of those 3 scenarios.
@synth The Farmville system gives people an unfair advantage over their friends in my opinion. I don't see that as good, but obviously people use it!
The other two examples seem ok at first. But say Field Runners come up with a new map every month. Pretty soon, I've spent $12 on a game. That's great if the game itself is very very good and makes you want to play it.
However, if your game isn't good, then inApp purchases aren't going to save it. You could spend time and money creating new content and for very little return. I guess you'd wait till something was reasonably successful till you started on inApp content creation.
But if you put too little in your game because your strategy is 'It'll be huge and we can charge for more later' then it might not be as huge as you'd like as people think 'I didn't get much for my money with the initial purchase'.
Also, when I buy a game, I want to buy the WHOLE game. Not little bits of it with more bits to come.
But that's just me, and I accept that some people like that or accept that. All I'm saying is that some people don't like it and don't accept it, and that it can work against you.
Additionally there are plenty of developers that add new free content regularly. Think 'Doodle Jump'.
Would that be as successful if it charged for new content? Cheers,
@QS... Have you played FarmVille? There is no unfair advantage. Its not a competitive game. Its a hobby game...no win or lose...its just entertaining. A bit unique with MILLIONS of addicts.
So what if you drop $12 on Fieldrunners. If you love the game...Great...buy all the maps. Otherwise play the ones that seem the most appealing. It about selection. Who says you have to give the gamers EVERYTHING for $1.
You are right about inApp not being a magic money machine. But I see it being a better tool at creating additional revenue than iAds. I personally don't want ads...but I would also like to sell all my games for a $1 and then develop ways to increase income on successful titles through inApp purchasing.
I see inApp purchasing as a way to bring a "phase 2" to a successful game. its a tool for EXPANDING profits...not generating profits. Your initial release still has to be amazing to get the draw. Then with inApp purchases...you can begin to expand the game and sell more puzzle kits or new levels or whatever. I think its a balance. Some things you expand for free like game play enhancements...but expansion packs I think should be a purchase option. Then perhaps after 3 or 4 months...you make them free. Let the impatient addicts pay for them and the casual gamers wait for them.
Doodle Jump sure makes lots of free updates...but they are just skins. And if my app was generating $2M a year...I would charge for content updates either. There are a lot of mid-level games that still could make additional revenue quite successfully with inApp purchases without pissing off the customers.
About the whole "just mobile flash games" thing. I've NEVER seen a flash game with the quality or depth of NFL 2011, 1112, Need For Speed Shift, Real Racing, 2XL Trophylite Rally... even the retro games such as Shining Force, Monkey Island... hell, even the top game Angry Birds is about a billion times better than any flash game out there.
Then there's the users preference. I HATE flash games. I HATE "casual" games in general, yet I use my iPod Touch as my primary gaming source. Okay, I loved Bumps and I loved Angry Birds but most casual games leave me cold. Despite what QS says, I DO want the console experience... but probably only as I don't currently own a modern console (just a PS2 and Mega Drive). I would prefer to play the latest stuff on X360 and PS3 (and will do, when I get back to NZ). I also much preferred my PSP to my DS. The DS was loaded with casual and "kiddy" games.
I think most iPhone gamers are probably casual gamers but they still expect a certain level of quality - notice how all the top games are bloody good?
synthesis said: Who says you have to give the gamers EVERYTHING for $1.
Surely that's what you've been advising people for months now? i.e. make the best game ever, but only charge $1 for it!
Otherwise, you make some good points. I agree it's a balance. But, and this is just my opinion, it's a very difficult balance to get right!
I think my main interest is to make better games. InApp purchasing and iAds is not going to do that, so, from a personal point of view, I'd rather see Gendai focussing on giving us game related features above money making ones e.g. phone feature access, leaderboards, better performance, more stable tools etc etc
People have already proved that you can make money using what we have now. Let's make better games, eh?
People have proved that you can make money using what we have now. Let's make better games, eh?
How very true. All this talk of needing this and that to make money. NO!!! make good games that people want. The amount of time spent debating whether iAds or in app purchases will make profits could have been channelled into getting a couple more releases on the app store.
2) Flash doesn't run well on mobile devices. I think there's more to it than just Steve Jobs being grumpy with Adobe.
3) Yes, there are games on the app store that far surpass the average flash game, but you can't do that with GameSalad... not yet anyway.
4) Money should be a concern because software, hardware and game assets need to be purchased.
5) In-app purchases are similar to the shift in the MMORPG market. Free to play, but cool stuff costs money.
6) I don't think software should be considered more valuable just because it runs on a portable device. To me, that's a feature of the hardware.
7) I think some apps are being used a trick -- to get consumers to pay for stuff that they used to get for free. Bumps is a fun game, but so's Collapse II, Rocket Mania, Smashing or Insaniquarium. If I want, I could play the Miniclip, Popcap and Yahoo games with a laptop. There are deluxe versions of free online games. I don't buy them. If not for the advertisements, they wouldn't make money.
Good points. I agree with the "tricking". I bought Ridge Racer... I am a big fan of the series. Having to buy certain tracks just sucks... what do I get from that? Have them as unlockables, sure but I really shouldn't have to pay for content that should already be in the game. Sure, if they were to release add-on packs of cars and tracks, I'd justify spending a buck or three but to show you all the tracks in game and have you purchase each one separately is just lame.
In other words, I'm all for in-app purchasing but only if it's done fairly.
It's amazing how often my thinking changes on this matter. Like right now, I'm thinking that my games aren't good enough to be competitive in this market. Perhaps I should just quit.
...but then I think that's exactly why I should go Pro. It's a commitment. It gives me a goal. It forces me to be better.
In a little more than 24 hours I'll have to make a decision.
Do you LOVE both making and playing iPhone games? That is the question that I would ask myself.
I know you enjoy playing game like Guild Wars, but you seem to show some contempt for iPhone games.
You mentioned on several occasions that you don't even buy iPhone games.
These devices have touch screens, accelerometers, and gyroscopes that aren't available anywhere else. It's such a cool thing.
And there are some true masterpieces for this device like Tilt to Live and Doodle Jump that you are missing out on.
Instead of spending two grand, I would spend a hundred bucks on the top iPhone games and find out what makes them so fun, addictive, and beloved by millions of people.
firemaplegames said: Do you LOVE both making and playing iPhone games? That is the question that I would ask myself.
I like making and playing games in general. There are things that make the iPhone cool, but I think it's more the ubiquity rather than the hardware. The Playstation has a six-axis controller. Yet, I find myself playing Super Street Fighter II HD Remix. (That's not exactly state-of-the-art.) Just looking at the title you can see how games go back to basics.
One of the problems I have with GameSalad is that it doesn't support other platforms... like PC, Android and most web browsers. If it did, I doubt I'd be so indecisive. If I could create a GameSalad game once and export it to the major platforms, my games would be more successful.
firemaplegames said:I know you enjoy playing game like Guild Wars, but you seem to show some contempt for iPhone games.
Actually, I don't like Guild Wars anymore. While I think the game is great technically, I hate the lore. It's the story. I don't know why these games have to be so complicated. I like the idea of getting together with your friends and fighting virtual enemies. The story doesn't have to be so convoluted.
So, I think it would be cool to make a online mobile RPG. I don't know enough about Game Center to know if it's possible with GameSalad, but I'm thinking of Gauntlet or Zelda that you can play online... same top-down perspective works well with GameSalad. I even have a basic concept that almost works.
As far as contempt, I think it's more about Angry Birds. I don't think this is a good game. Overall, I think there are some great iPhone games, but it's not really anything that impresses me. I don't get excited about games like I used to. Either I've matured or the industry has gotten stale. I think it's the latter.
firemaplegames said: And there are some true masterpieces for this device like Tilt to Live and Doodle Jump that you are missing out on.
Doodle Jump reminds me of the cow game on Android. (I forgot the name.) I don't think that either of those games are on the level of Super Mario Bros. I think that's how I know I still enjoy games. I played New Super Mario Bros Wii and I thought it was awesome. I played it until I completed everything. The game was fun.
I have ideas for a platformer too, but this costs money... artwork, music... just to lose to a game like Angry Birds?! Why is this game still #1? You'd think everyone who wants it would have bought it already.
firemaplegames said:Instead of spending two grand, I would spend a hundred bucks on the top iPhone games and find out what makes them so fun, addictive, and beloved by millions of people.
Photics said: As far as contempt, I think it's more about Angry Birds. I don't think this is a good game. Overall, I think there are some great iPhone games, but it's not really anything that impresses me. I don't get excited about games like I used to. Either I've matured or the industry has gotten stale. I think it's the latter.
Doodle Jump reminds me of the cow game on Android. (I forgot the name.) I don't think that either of those games are on the level of Super Mario Bros. I think that's how I know I still enjoy games. I played New Super Mario Bros Wii and I thought it was awesome. I played it until I completed everything. The game was fun.
It's a matter of opinion of course. I happen to think Angry Birds and Doodle Jump are fantastic. I assume that you haven't even purchased them anyway. You cannot compare them to Super Mario Bros. - they are different genres and systems.
I currently have, or have had at one time or another pretty much every gaming system ever created - Including about 40 actual arcade games and pinball machines. And I actually think games keep getting more interesting as time goes on.
Super Mario Bros. and The Legend of Zelda are my all-time favorite games, but I also spent 10 hours this weekend playing Tilt to Live. They are different experiences entirely.
To be brutally honest i think thats maybe a huge part of the problem for you Photic.
You seem to think your games are great, and keep coming up with various reasons as to why theyre not successful, bagging on other games in the process, or claiming underhand dealings or conspiracies where there are none.
Then you tell us you think the biggest selling games are all crap, not worth buying and that the industry has become stale.
I dont think the millions of customers who are buying these succesful games can all be wrong... so maybe you should consider that its you thats coming at it from the wrong angle and attitude.
Im trying to be polite and constructive in trying to convey that across to you.
firemaplegames said:I would spend a hundred bucks on the top iPhone games and find out what makes them so fun, addictive, and beloved by millions of people.
I think this is amazing advice for all potential game devs.
firemaplegames said: It's a matter of opinion of course. I happen to think Angry Birds and Doodle Jump are fantastic. I assume that you haven't even purchased them anyway. You cannot compare them to Super Mario Bros. - they are different genres and systems.
I currently have, or have had at one time or another pretty much every gaming system ever created - Including about 40 actual arcade games and pinball machines. And I actually think games keep getting more interesting as time goes on.
Super Mario Bros. and The Legend of Zelda are my all-time favorite games, but I also spent 10 hours this weekend playing Tilt to Live. They are different experiences entirely.
Same here FMG! I've had just about every system post Atari era, even the 3D0 and Jaguar systems. I got rid of a ton of my collection simply because it was taking up too much space, and I had no room for it anymore. BUT I was reluctant to part with a majority of my Nintendo Collection, simply because I feel they create the best, addictive, and most creative games. Period.
App store blockbuster hits are MUCH different than games in the likes of Mario Brothers and Zelda, which are also my favorite series of all time.
I'm a huge Nintendo Fan, but also appreciate the app store for it's various selection of games, and low prices.
Having the iPhone will not stop me from pre-ordering the latest and greatest Nintendo has to offer, because FMG is right, they are 2 completely different gaming devices.
Nintendo is a mixture of Hardcore/Brand Name Classics/Kids games, whereas the iphone is really geared for" on the go" type games marketed to a variety of age groups.
I think understanding the Video Game market as a whole is very important, and understanding the difference between, say, what makes a Nintendo DS game popular, versus what makes an iphone game a hit will be your ticket to the direction you should take your apps.
I think having purchased many apps in the app store has helped, especially in particular genres that I stick to has helped.
I also think that understanding the gaming market as a whole, and having surrounded myself with all things gaming for a long time has molded my understanding of the market.
In a nutshell, know your market, your device, and your audience. And hopefully, out of a batch of titles you release, you will come out with a successful title.
Update: Also, as successful as the itouch and idevices have been, I don't think Nintendo is ever going anywhere in the portable market.
They have dominated for too long, and continue to innovate their systems.
Again, 2 very different markets.
With the iDevices, you have more of a very, extreme, casual gaming market, whereas the Nintendo handhelds are a touch Hardcore, a touch classic, and have branded themselves to be king of the handheld industry.
I for one will be preordering the 3DS the moment I'm able to. The Experience of it at E3 was nothing short of amazing!
So Photics, when you compare Doodle Jump to Mario Brothers, it's an unfair comparison, as they are 2 very different types of games, and Doodle Jump was never mean to compete or align with the Mario Bros. Series.
Now if you have ever played the "Giana Sisters" That could compare with Mario Bros. It actually originally released for the Nintendo DS in Europe, then made it to the iPhone, and now the iPad. It's a very well done game.
firemaplegames said: @butterbean: I actually never owned a 3DO, but my friend did. We played Night Trap and Sewer Shark until we won, then the system just collected dust!
I was able to get rid of a lot of the older systems, and use the emulators instead. I still use the original controllers with these USB adaptors:
I totally recommend them. You can even play all of the old Commodore-64 games with the Atari joystick.
Those are awesome! I think I remember seeing those controller USB adapters at the Classic Gaming Expo.
I currently own an original white, Saturn Controller that has a USB cable built in, and use that to play all my classic games. But as soon as I find a good working N64 emulator for Mac (if you know one let me know) I'll be purchasing the adapter for the N64 controller
Yeah, Night Trap was good for it's time! I played it for Sega CD.
The 3D0 was all about Road Rash for me at the time, and I played that one for hours That, and "Kingdom, the Far Reaches" which was a point and click adventure.
But the device I'm most looking forward to is the Nintendo 3DS.... it will be like cracking open the SNES all over again
I also just sold my entire PSP game collection. That is the one system I could care less about, and if I want a game, I'll download the digital version instead.
Comments
Make a decision and get on with it. We understand your indecisive.
This is why inApp purchasing is high on my list of new features...but I hope they don't make it a pro feature...but I suspect they will since iAds went to the pro dept.
perhaps part of the reason the game didn't do well...is there are other games that have similar tactics as yours...that being multi-games in 1. I think the most recent was 100 in 1. And they are priced at $1.
The game looks interesting definitely...but the competition is fierce and I am convinced that anything over $1...in this market must be absolutely amazing or already in the top 100...or the little kiddies won't spend their lunch money on it.
And I agree with some of the other posts...that its ALL ABOUT GRAPHICS on the app store to make sales. Your gameplay looks fun and exciting (as well as the promo-video) and the graphics are clean with some interesting visual effects...but I still think it feels a little flat.
Plus space games tend to be a dime a dozen...and I rarely see one in the top of the charts.
It seems like you have a knack for game dev...keep working at it and studying the app store to see what DOES sell. Then find something that works and then rework it to make it your own. But the graphics must be stellar to be a huge success.
Should advertisements appear during the game? I think that's a big difference between what I'm planning. Yes, if I do this, there will be advertisements during the game. It's like a flash game with a banner on the page.
Maybe that's an incorrect perception, but I think the mobile market most closely resembles flash games. People are used to getting those games for free. That's why I think the advertising route could be a more successful path. I think it makes sense for in-app purchases to go Pro. It seems that marketing/revenue related features are pro... custom loading pages, hyperlinks, iAds and I think in-app purchases. If Gendai Games released in-app purchases as an Express feature, I wouldn't need to upgrade to Pro.
Namely, that it's 'mobile'
If you consider iPhone games the equivalent of flash games that you can pay for free, then yes, you could argue, 'I can play those for free'.
But you'd have to add 'At home. On a computer. With an internet connection.'
Canabalt is a great example here. It started as a flash game, which you could play for free. And I did. And it was wonderful. So I bought the game for my iPhone. I can now play it wherever I am. No internet connection required! No computer required!
I read an interview with Adam Saltsman recently where he wondered if they priced Canabalt wrongly at $3. They never got into the top 10. But I admire him for sticking to his guns at the time.
People were saying 'But you only do one thing - tap the screen. And there's a free flash version - why would I pay $3?'
Maybe for the convenience of playing it wherever you are?
Farmville is another good example. You can play that on Facebook, but there's also an iPhone version. Why do people pay for the iPhone version? Because when they're not at their computers, they can still play!
This is why I thought pause was so important. I play games a lot on the train, for example. They're a great way to pass the time. And in that scenario, there are multiple reasons why you might want to pause the game.
It's a convenience for the end user! For the people playing your games. HOW and WHEN they play has to be a big consideration when designing a game.
I guess it depends on your lifestyle. If you go out lots, are waiting for friends, are stuck in a long queue, are waiting for the bus etc etc... then iPhone games are a good distraction. You can't play those free flash games on your iPhone (Mr. Jobs saw to that!).
If you're indoors a lot, then you might not need to play games on your phone. But even then, it's fun to play while on the toilet, for example
Additionally, and correct me if I'm wrong, but most flash games will not save your progress from session to session.
What I'm essentially saying is that considering a player's needs when playing an iPhone game is paramount. It's mobile. And flash games aren't!
Nintendo has trounced Sony in the mobile arena because they understand this. People do not want to play console games on the bus. They want a quick fix of entertainment in a small unit they can carry anywhere.
Much like the iPhone
Cheers,
QS
Edit: I have no problem with iAds appearing in menus, or on the splash screen. I've done it myself after all with three titles.
But having them 'in-game' is a bad policy in my opinion. I think it could harm your 'brand' and put people off buying other games you make.
@Syn - I've not read up to the part about in-app purchases in the book, but my general impression (and this is just from reading reviews/comments on forums and the app store) is that people are not big fans of the system.
It seems that people want 'Free' to be 'Free' - asking them to buy additional content from a free game seems hypocritical to them.
But hey, I agree, there are situations where it could be seen as a good thing. Mainly in 'cosmetic' additions - things that don't give you an advantage in-game but let you personalise stuff.
Players find that customising stuff has some inherent value.
As long as it's thought through and not used willy nilly, then it can help. I personally don't think it's a 'must have' feature though.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I got Sentinel 2 on a free day. It gave me 3 levels to play and 2 were locked. I enjoyed the game (still do)...its really well done. So I spent $1 and bought the other 2 levels.
Then there is FarmVille. Its free to download and play. But you can buy farm cash and farm coins with in app purchasing if you don't want to wait for days to earn them for free. The in app purchasing accelerates the game.
Then there is Field Runners. 3 maps come with the game for $2 or $3. Then you can buy additional maps to play for $1 a piece. This method allows you to sell a smaller version of the game at a lower price and then sell "expansion packs".
I don't see anything wrong with any of those 3 scenarios.
The Farmville system gives people an unfair advantage over their friends in my opinion. I don't see that as good, but obviously people use it!
The other two examples seem ok at first. But say Field Runners come up with a new map every month. Pretty soon, I've spent $12 on a game. That's great if the game itself is very very good and makes you want to play it.
However, if your game isn't good, then inApp purchases aren't going to save it. You could spend time and money creating new content and for very little return. I guess you'd wait till something was reasonably successful till you started on inApp content creation.
But if you put too little in your game because your strategy is 'It'll be huge and we can charge for more later' then it might not be as huge as you'd like as people think 'I didn't get much for my money with the initial purchase'.
Also, when I buy a game, I want to buy the WHOLE game. Not little bits of it with more bits to come.
But that's just me, and I accept that some people like that or accept that. All I'm saying is that some people don't like it and don't accept it, and that it can work against you.
Additionally there are plenty of developers that add new free content regularly. Think 'Doodle Jump'.
Would that be as successful if it charged for new content?
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Have you played FarmVille? There is no unfair advantage. Its not a competitive game. Its a hobby game...no win or lose...its just entertaining. A bit unique with MILLIONS of addicts.
So what if you drop $12 on Fieldrunners. If you love the game...Great...buy all the maps. Otherwise play the ones that seem the most appealing. It about selection. Who says you have to give the gamers EVERYTHING for $1.
You are right about inApp not being a magic money machine. But I see it being a better tool at creating additional revenue than iAds. I personally don't want ads...but I would also like to sell all my games for a $1 and then develop ways to increase income on successful titles through inApp purchasing.
I see inApp purchasing as a way to bring a "phase 2" to a successful game. its a tool for EXPANDING profits...not generating profits. Your initial release still has to be amazing to get the draw. Then with inApp purchases...you can begin to expand the game and sell more puzzle kits or new levels or whatever. I think its a balance. Some things you expand for free like game play enhancements...but expansion packs I think should be a purchase option. Then perhaps after 3 or 4 months...you make them free. Let the impatient addicts pay for them and the casual gamers wait for them.
Doodle Jump sure makes lots of free updates...but they are just skins. And if my app was generating $2M a year...I would charge for content updates either. There are a lot of mid-level games that still could make additional revenue quite successfully with inApp purchases without pissing off the customers.
Then there's the users preference. I HATE flash games. I HATE "casual" games in general, yet I use my iPod Touch as my primary gaming source. Okay, I loved Bumps and I loved Angry Birds but most casual games leave me cold. Despite what QS says, I DO want the console experience... but probably only as I don't currently own a modern console (just a PS2 and Mega Drive). I would prefer to play the latest stuff on X360 and PS3 (and will do, when I get back to NZ). I also much preferred my PSP to my DS. The DS was loaded with casual and "kiddy" games.
I think most iPhone gamers are probably casual gamers but they still expect a certain level of quality - notice how all the top games are bloody good?
Otherwise, you make some good points. I agree it's a balance. But, and this is just my opinion, it's a very difficult balance to get right!
I think my main interest is to make better games. InApp purchasing and iAds is not going to do that, so, from a personal point of view, I'd rather see Gendai focussing on giving us game related features above money making ones e.g. phone feature access, leaderboards, better performance, more stable tools etc etc
People have already proved that you can make money using what we have now. Let's make better games, eh?
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
1) Flash games can save progress or use passwords to continue... with cookies, flash cookies, or communication with a server.
You can see the more hidden flash stuff on your computer here...
http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager06.html
2) Flash doesn't run well on mobile devices. I think there's more to it than just Steve Jobs being grumpy with Adobe.
3) Yes, there are games on the app store that far surpass the average flash game, but you can't do that with GameSalad... not yet anyway.
4) Money should be a concern because software, hardware and game assets need to be purchased.
5) In-app purchases are similar to the shift in the MMORPG market. Free to play, but cool stuff costs money.
6) I don't think software should be considered more valuable just because it runs on a portable device. To me, that's a feature of the hardware.
7) I think some apps are being used a trick -- to get consumers to pay for stuff that they used to get for free. Bumps is a fun game, but so's Collapse II, Rocket Mania, Smashing or Insaniquarium. If I want, I could play the Miniclip, Popcap and Yahoo games with a laptop. There are deluxe versions of free online games. I don't buy them. If not for the advertisements, they wouldn't make money.
In other words, I'm all for in-app purchasing but only if it's done fairly.
...but then I think that's exactly why I should go Pro. It's a commitment. It gives me a goal. It forces me to be better.
In a little more than 24 hours I'll have to make a decision.
That is the question that I would ask myself.
I know you enjoy playing game like Guild Wars, but you seem to show some contempt for iPhone games.
You mentioned on several occasions that you don't even buy iPhone games.
These devices have touch screens, accelerometers, and gyroscopes that aren't available anywhere else. It's such a cool thing.
And there are some true masterpieces for this device like Tilt to Live and Doodle Jump that you are missing out on.
Instead of spending two grand, I would spend a hundred bucks on the top iPhone games and find out what makes them so fun, addictive, and beloved by millions of people.
Do it for America!
One of the problems I have with GameSalad is that it doesn't support other platforms... like PC, Android and most web browsers. If it did, I doubt I'd be so indecisive. If I could create a GameSalad game once and export it to the major platforms, my games would be more successful. Actually, I don't like Guild Wars anymore. While I think the game is great technically, I hate the lore. It's the story. I don't know why these games have to be so complicated. I like the idea of getting together with your friends and fighting virtual enemies. The story doesn't have to be so convoluted.
So, I think it would be cool to make a online mobile RPG. I don't know enough about Game Center to know if it's possible with GameSalad, but I'm thinking of Gauntlet or Zelda that you can play online... same top-down perspective works well with GameSalad. I even have a basic concept that almost works.
As far as contempt, I think it's more about Angry Birds. I don't think this is a good game. Overall, I think there are some great iPhone games, but it's not really anything that impresses me. I don't get excited about games like I used to. Either I've matured or the industry has gotten stale. I think it's the latter. Doodle Jump reminds me of the cow game on Android. (I forgot the name.) I don't think that either of those games are on the level of Super Mario Bros. I think that's how I know I still enjoy games. I played New Super Mario Bros Wii and I thought it was awesome. I played it until I completed everything. The game was fun.
I have ideas for a platformer too, but this costs money... artwork, music... just to lose to a game like Angry Birds?! Why is this game still #1? You'd think everyone who wants it would have bought it already. I don't consider that an option.
I assume that you haven't even purchased them anyway. You cannot compare them to Super Mario Bros. - they are different genres and systems.
I currently have, or have had at one time or another pretty much every gaming system ever created - Including about 40 actual arcade games and pinball machines. And I actually think games keep getting more interesting as time goes on.
Super Mario Bros. and The Legend of Zelda are my all-time favorite games, but I also spent 10 hours this weekend playing Tilt to Live. They are different experiences entirely.
You seem to think your games are great, and keep coming up with various reasons as to why theyre not successful, bagging on other games in the process, or claiming underhand dealings or conspiracies where there are none.
Then you tell us you think the biggest selling games are all crap, not worth buying and that the industry has become stale.
I dont think the millions of customers who are buying these succesful games can all be wrong... so maybe you should consider that its you thats coming at it from the wrong angle and attitude.
Im trying to be polite and constructive in trying to convey that across to you.
I think this is amazing advice for all potential game devs.
App store blockbuster hits are MUCH different than games in the likes of Mario Brothers and Zelda, which are also my favorite series of all time.
I'm a huge Nintendo Fan, but also appreciate the app store for it's various selection of games, and low prices.
Having the iPhone will not stop me from pre-ordering the latest and greatest Nintendo has to offer, because FMG is right, they are 2 completely different gaming devices.
Nintendo is a mixture of Hardcore/Brand Name Classics/Kids games, whereas the iphone is really geared for" on the go" type games marketed to a variety of age groups.
I think understanding the Video Game market as a whole is very important, and understanding the difference between, say, what makes a Nintendo DS game popular, versus what makes an iphone game a hit will be your ticket to the direction you should take your apps.
I think having purchased many apps in the app store has helped, especially in particular genres that I stick to has helped.
I also think that understanding the gaming market as a whole, and having surrounded myself with all things gaming for a long time has molded my understanding of the market.
In a nutshell, know your market, your device, and your audience. And hopefully, out of a batch of titles you release, you will come out with a successful title.
Update: Also, as successful as the itouch and idevices have been, I don't think Nintendo is ever going anywhere in the portable market.
They have dominated for too long, and continue to innovate their systems.
Again, 2 very different markets.
With the iDevices, you have more of a very, extreme, casual gaming market, whereas the Nintendo handhelds are a touch Hardcore, a touch classic, and have branded themselves to be king of the handheld industry.
I for one will be preordering the 3DS the moment I'm able to. The Experience of it at E3 was nothing short of amazing!
So Photics, when you compare Doodle Jump to Mario Brothers, it's an unfair comparison, as they are 2 very different types of games, and Doodle Jump was never mean to compete or align with the Mario Bros. Series.
Now if you have ever played the "Giana Sisters" That could compare with Mario Bros. It actually originally released for the Nintendo DS in Europe, then made it to the iPhone, and now the iPad. It's a very well done game.
I was able to get rid of a lot of the older systems, and use the emulators instead. I still use the original controllers with these USB adaptors:
http://www.retrousb.com/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=d9f97c7da7425b79e87f2ed4f1664d18
I totally recommend them. You can even play all of the old Commodore-64 games with the Atari joystick.
I currently own an original white, Saturn Controller that has a USB cable built in, and use that to play all my classic games. But as soon as I find a good working N64 emulator for Mac (if you know one let me know) I'll be purchasing the adapter for the N64 controller
Yeah, Night Trap was good for it's time! I played it for Sega CD.
The 3D0 was all about Road Rash for me at the time, and I played that one for hours
But the device I'm most looking forward to is the Nintendo 3DS.... it will be like cracking open the SNES all over again
I also just sold my entire PSP game collection. That is the one system I could care less about, and if I want a game, I'll download the digital version instead.
The SNES is my favorite system of all time.
N64 emulators are still shoddy last time I checked.
SNES, NES are perfect though.
Yes, the SNES is the holy grail of all systems ever made
I just played BanjoKazooie, MarioKart64, Goldeneye, Ocarina of Time, and Majora's Mask!
They all work great now!
Those ROMs didn't even work before!
Cripes! I'll never get any work done now!