@Polygame: As I see new sous chefs are motivated. LOL Let's see how long :-P
@Gendai (without swearing - am I allowed calling them retarded?):
Thanks Gendai for messing it up again. You guys have to be retarded just cutting the tree under yourself, while sitting on it.
I am absolutely for publishing games instead of letting everybody in to the appstore, but what you are doing is just not working.
Having a messed up, half functioning software in beta version without updates and essential functions is not enough being the new Gameloft or Chillingo.
I don't know, what you guys are thinking, but it won't work. Really.
What about if you put yourself together, make an effort and publish a functioning software in the version 1.0 first, and then make some thoughts about what you really want, make a road plan and keep it.
Don't get me wrong, I am also an impulsive person and often make decisions out of my belly, but in your case it just looks retarded and unprofessional.
The problem is, that now you will see, that your action will take you to doom and you probably will take it all back, which will let you look even more retarded.
What about asking the community before you make announcements in public on some game shows?
What about not going to game shows, but working on a working software and on its updates?
Going to game shows and making stupid announcements doesn't make you look more professional, when you really are a bunch of programming students without any business experience.
If you already managed to get some idiots investing into your company, then at least hire a PR guy and a CEO, who have at least some clues on PR and Business.
Publishing is about marketing. What do you offer me, if I publish it with you? Do you advertise my game? Do you finance my game? Do you manage my game?
I assume not. You just think "hey, I gave you a software". No. That's not enough.
I don't believe, you will be able to support thousands of customers (assuming, your plans go right) on a personal level and I don't believe either, that you intend to, but if you want to be a publisher, you need to manage your developers on a personal level, if you want them to work with you (advertising, promo codes, price changes, taxes etc).
It is not enough marketing to put games on your website and leave them alone. Also not enough to put them on appstore and leave them alone. You don't have time to maintain your own software in a reasonable manner, how do you want to manage publishing for hundreds of developers?
If I can't assume that my game will make a difference in the crowd, why would I want to work with you? Just for your software? Forget it!
There are a bunch of other softwares for free, which may need some learning, but they at least work.
Now get back to work, make some updates for your existing software and keep everything as it is, and you will be good to go. Everything else ist just a new nail into your coffin.
I suggest waiting for the full specs on the new service. GS have told us they'll clear things up... I reckon a little patience will go a long way... I hope...
I suggest waiting for the full specs on the new service. GS have told us they'll clear things up... I reckon a little patience will go a long way... I hope...
LOL! Some of the posts in here are worth gold. This has go to be one of the most entertaining and straight up threads I've ever followed. Well... atleast entertaining for me, I'm not sure about the people who are taking the beating. One thing is for sure, everyone has gotten their say in... and then some.
I also want to give GS a little credit for keeping this thread open. I'm convinced every time I log in it will be gone.
I don't have to wait for specs, because I know, how the appstore, developing and marketing works and what you need for it.
Their plan just can't work. Period. Even if they have the most holly intentions (which I don't believe) they will crash on the pressure, because they have no power to manage it. They have not enough power to make a solid tool.
Maybe it will work for 1-2 months. At the latest, when there are more than 20 developers, who spam them with support requests, questions and other stuff regarding their games, they will just break and leave everything unanswered and developers will run away in bunches.
If they pull it through, I give them 6 months and GS is no more.
Dreaming about money is nice and I believe that they are frustrated not earning enough money with the $99 subscriptions, but they should have made some thoughts about it before they started.
In my experience exactly this is the thing, they have problems with. Thinking.
- our own independence as iOS developers. - ability to publish unlimited games for $99 - our line of contact with apple - revenue % - ability to have a pro account and remove all traces of GS branding - own brand identity (which helps customers to buy our other games) - itunesconnect facilities
What we gain:
- ?
Now all apps will be put in the same basket as people's republished template crap, great. And with this new easy way of publishing and increased marketing which way do you think the quality of GS games is gonna go?
Hear Hear..
I wouldn't mind a profit share/ Royalty going to GS and I wouldn't even mind keeping the "Made with GameSalad" promo at the beginning if:
The Game Salad promo was shorter in time. I had the current toolset of the pro account. I published through my own AppleDev account. I had control over where MY app is placed in App Store.
As it currently seems with the current lack of information, it seems that this statement issued by Gamesalad:
"In 2009 we democratized game creation. In 2010, we’re democratizing game publishing. GameSalad is moving into the world of mobile game publishing. There will no longer be Express or Pro accounts offered and everyone will get the full set of features, previously available only to those with Pro-level memberships."
Should read:
In 2009 we democratized game creation. In 2010, we’re Communising game publishing. GameSalad is forcing users into the world of mobile game publishing behind an Iron Curtain. There will no longer be freedom offered to users but everyone will get the full set of features, previously available only to those with Pro-level memberships to labour for the pollit bureau and remain poor comrads who shall remain faceless and nameless.
tshirtbooth said: From what i understand you will have access to ALLL your apps info, reports, promo codes you even get to change your release dates and pull the app from the store if you want.
How and what real control will we have..
Surmising what is not known as fact is not helpful.
The fact is, is that we already have access to all of that info through our own AppDev accounts. Why do we need it one step removed when we already have it?
It is impossible to control and manage your apps in iTunes Connect if they put it up under their account.
Yes, they can give you limited rights, like watching numbers and such, but the rights-handling in iTunes connect is not really customizable. You can give very limited rights, or you can give more rights, but they are already too risky to give them for strangers. They won't do that.
They may have an extra deal with Apple, where they get their own account management system, but I doubt, apple will do something like this for Gendai.
They may have built a tool for managing limited rights while in their itunes account you have full rights, but then they have to build an extra authenticating system, so you don't get to their real itunes account.
That is the only way to allow you to manage prices and codes, but I don't think it is a good thing to use such a tool, even if they could program it.
---
As I said, publishing is a good thing and I wouldn't have issues to publish my games under GS flags if
- I were an indie developer - GS would have a better reputation - GS would be more stable and useful - Gendai could assure me that they get my games to the top.
The biggest problem is the last one.
If they want to become a second gameloft/chillingo, they have to carefully sort their published apps by quality. Then with time they can market your app with their name, but then GS is not "for the rest of us".
If they just want to get money, they will allow every crappy app made by GS, but then the GS brand will be as good as yesterdays newspaper after I whiped my arse with it on the toilette.
So, as you see, there is no way for this to work for everybody. There are still the other problems, I mentioned in my deleted post.
- Gendai could assure me that they get my games to the top.
Theres no way they could "assure" anyone that they will get their apps to "the top". All they can do it help with the advertising. If your game sucks then theres nothing they can do, if it's exceptional then it will work it's way up the charts on it's own.
BackUpAndDown said: Theres no way they could "assure" anyone that they will get their apps to "the top". All they can do it help with the advertising. If your game sucks then theres nothing they can do, if it's exceptional then it will work it's way up the charts on it's own.
And then we are there, what I said in my post.
Chillingo takes your game only, if they see the quality of success in it. Otherwise it would be thrown out money if they try to advertise your game.
If they take your game, you can be assured, that it will make decent money.
If Gendai can't (or don't want) assure me top notch marketing because my app is crappy (which I probably know myself) and they don't want to throw out money (why to put advertising money in a crappy app in the first place, when we all know that it won't do anything?), then I don't need them as publishers, because I can be unsuccessful on my own too.
If they pick apps for marketing based on quality, then the others, who are not picked, can be very angry with reason.
If they allow every crap under their flag anyway, then even if I develop the second Angry Birds, my game will be unnoticed, because there is no marketing and because users will see "oh it's a GS game, it is probably crap, so I don't even try to download".
So, what's the deal?
Why should I stay with GS?
Don't you see people, that you struggle around with a software, which would not even go through as alpha version in better circles, but they still want to tell you, how happy you will be, if you work with them, even if you lose more and more on the deal.
To develop such a system you need people and time, which are missing in developing the actual software.
So you will get the same non functional thing with a contract, you can't escape and you will just lose on every corner with it.
Maybe Apple are the cash injectors? Then they would have something to crow about.
I have been harsh in earlier posts, perhaps too harsh (Most probably due to the annoyance that I have to continue to code my games manually. ) but at the end of the day business is very often made up of nobody can say anything about whats happening until a certain point. Its a legal issue as has been stated.
Although not the same, one company I worked for was sold on to another company and even though it meant massive changes to us who worked there and some initial difficulties for our customers not a single person could say anything about it. We had to grin and pretend nothing was happening. In the end the company was better for it. Much better.
So although the initial release info seems wrong on all counts, it would be better to just wait and see. Who knows it could actually end up being a good thing.
It's a moderator coming to delete the post. HA HA.
That's a funny video though. It does look pretty bad for GameSalad. They should have resolved this issue already or at least leave up Pro and Express until they officially launch GameSalad Direct® -- I don't see the logic with turning off a source of income and frustrating the members of an excellent community.
So. They want to own our apps? They want to charge us for compiling? They are not going to fix the bugs in the software, but they instead are changing to a shovel-ware publishing outfit? WTF is going on?
Does anyone really know what this all is about? Is there any reason at all to continue developing in GameSalad?
@iDeveloper BTW why do you care?? you said you were leaving anyway because you wanted to learn "real" programming, right? last month you said you were leaving the forums, and now you are back complaining?
They will release when they are ready, they have made that clear havn't they?
I cooled down a bit from since I found out. I'm just wondering about the thinking behind this decision though. Maybe Gendai isn't making enough money I don't know. In my programming class, one of the students made an app in XCode which took him 2 months to code. The app was so simple, you could do it within hours (the logic) in GS. I imagine that programming GS must take Gendai a ton of work, especially when trying to track and kill bugs. AFAIK memory leaks are the biggest affliction to any software that runs on iOS so it wouldn't surprise me if that's the biggest thing that is causing GS to be buggy. GS must be very difficult to work on to get it running on iOS.
I appreciate the hardwork that Gendai has done and very much appreciate that I have a drag and drop editor. My partner and I were discussing it and perhaps we could use Corona. However because of our real life constraints such as school and work we would rather spend our time on the creation of the game rather than build an engine and get all the components working first... not to mention I'd have to learn Lua first as well. We still don't know if GS can handle what we want it to do, but definitely want to give it a shot.
This being said, since this is our first app... marketing, promotion, trailers, etc, etc. is a first for us and I don't know how much time we have for that. Not to mention, if it doesn't take off at all, would we lose more in the end than what we gain?
As I said earlier, before I completely judge the Direct option I am curious. If it does become the only option to license and their royalties or whatever fees are reasonable such as even charging royalties for so long until say they've made the equivalent of what they'd make if they charged you for Pro, maybe we'll try.
AND afaik, if you make a game under GS Direct let's say and it starts to take off, if there is nothing locking you in their contract, you could always make a new version of the game concurrently in code. If you're game really takes off, you could pull out and rerelease under your own brand. You're always free to choose when and when you don't want to use their software.
This is going to be interesting to see. I am glad that there were some yellow posts assuring that they were working on the details and preparing to update everyone. I still criticize that they put up a blog post stating that the old license options will be scrapped but no info beyond that. The best way would have been saying, "Direct will be a revolutionary new service" or something like that and NOT stating scrapping old license options until the day they can give out all the info.
Comments
As I see new sous chefs are motivated. LOL
Let's see how long :-P
@Gendai (without swearing - am I allowed calling them retarded?):
Thanks Gendai for messing it up again.
You guys have to be retarded just cutting the tree under yourself, while sitting on it.
I am absolutely for publishing games instead of letting everybody in to the appstore, but what you are doing is just not working.
Having a messed up, half functioning software in beta version without updates and essential functions is not enough being the new Gameloft or Chillingo.
I don't know, what you guys are thinking, but it won't work. Really.
What about if you put yourself together, make an effort and publish a functioning software in the version 1.0 first, and then make some thoughts about what you really want, make a road plan and keep it.
Don't get me wrong, I am also an impulsive person and often make decisions out of my belly, but in your case it just looks retarded and unprofessional.
The problem is, that now you will see, that your action will take you to doom and you probably will take it all back, which will let you look even more retarded.
What about asking the community before you make announcements in public on some game shows?
What about not going to game shows, but working on a working software and on its updates?
Going to game shows and making stupid announcements doesn't make you look more professional, when you really are a bunch of programming students without any business experience.
If you already managed to get some idiots investing into your company, then at least hire a PR guy and a CEO, who have at least some clues on PR and Business.
Publishing is about marketing.
What do you offer me, if I publish it with you? Do you advertise my game? Do you finance my game? Do you manage my game?
I assume not. You just think "hey, I gave you a software". No. That's not enough.
I don't believe, you will be able to support thousands of customers (assuming, your plans go right) on a personal level and I don't believe either, that you intend to, but if you want to be a publisher, you need to manage your developers on a personal level, if you want them to work with you (advertising, promo codes, price changes, taxes etc).
It is not enough marketing to put games on your website and leave them alone. Also not enough to put them on appstore and leave them alone. You don't have time to maintain your own software in a reasonable manner, how do you want to manage publishing for hundreds of developers?
If I can't assume that my game will make a difference in the crowd, why would I want to work with you? Just for your software? Forget it!
There are a bunch of other softwares for free, which may need some learning, but they at least work.
Now get back to work, make some updates for your existing software and keep everything as it is, and you will be good to go. Everything else ist just a new nail into your coffin.
Cheers!
I suggest waiting for the full specs on the new service. GS have told us they'll clear things up... I reckon a little patience will go a long way... I hope...
I also want to give GS a little credit for keeping this thread open. I'm convinced every time I log in it will be gone.
Twitter:rondorocket
Web: rondorocket.com
I don't have to wait for specs, because I know, how the appstore, developing and marketing works and what you need for it.
Their plan just can't work. Period.
Even if they have the most holly intentions (which I don't believe) they will crash on the pressure, because they have no power to manage it. They have not enough power to make a solid tool.
Maybe it will work for 1-2 months. At the latest, when there are more than 20 developers, who spam them with support requests, questions and other stuff regarding their games, they will just break and leave everything unanswered and developers will run away in bunches.
If they pull it through, I give them 6 months and GS is no more.
Dreaming about money is nice and I believe that they are frustrated not earning enough money with the $99 subscriptions, but they should have made some thoughts about it before they started.
In my experience exactly this is the thing, they have problems with. Thinking.
I wouldn't mind a profit share/ Royalty going to GS and I wouldn't even mind keeping the "Made with GameSalad" promo at the beginning if:
The Game Salad promo was shorter in time.
I had the current toolset of the pro account.
I published through my own AppleDev account.
I had control over where MY app is placed in App Store.
As it currently seems with the current lack of information, it seems that this statement issued by Gamesalad:
"In 2009 we democratized game creation. In 2010, we’re democratizing game publishing. GameSalad is moving into the world of mobile game publishing. There will no longer be Express or Pro accounts offered and everyone will get the full set of features, previously available only to those with Pro-level memberships."
Should read:
In 2009 we democratized game creation. In 2010, we’re Communising game publishing. GameSalad is forcing users into the world of mobile game publishing behind an Iron Curtain. There will no longer be freedom offered to users but everyone will get the full set of features, previously available only to those with Pro-level memberships to labour for the pollit bureau and remain poor comrads who shall remain faceless and nameless.
Cool, communism is already here.
KTHXBYE
Surmising what is not known as fact is not helpful.
The fact is, is that we already have access to all of that info through our own AppDev accounts.
Why do we need it one step removed when we already have it?
Yes, they can give you limited rights, like watching numbers and such, but the rights-handling in iTunes connect is not really customizable. You can give very limited rights, or you can give more rights, but they are already too risky to give them for strangers. They won't do that.
They may have an extra deal with Apple, where they get their own account management system, but I doubt, apple will do something like this for Gendai.
They may have built a tool for managing limited rights while in their itunes account you have full rights, but then they have to build an extra authenticating system, so you don't get to their real itunes account.
That is the only way to allow you to manage prices and codes, but I don't think it is a good thing to use such a tool, even if they could program it.
---
As I said, publishing is a good thing and I wouldn't have issues to publish my games under GS flags if
- I were an indie developer
- GS would have a better reputation
- GS would be more stable and useful
- Gendai could assure me that they get my games to the top.
The biggest problem is the last one.
If they want to become a second gameloft/chillingo, they have to carefully sort their published apps by quality. Then with time they can market your app with their name, but then GS is not "for the rest of us".
If they just want to get money, they will allow every crappy app made by GS, but then the GS brand will be as good as yesterdays newspaper after I whiped my arse with it on the toilette.
So, as you see, there is no way for this to work for everybody. There are still the other problems, I mentioned in my deleted post.
Chillingo takes your game only, if they see the quality of success in it. Otherwise it would be thrown out money if they try to advertise your game.
If they take your game, you can be assured, that it will make decent money.
If Gendai can't (or don't want) assure me top notch marketing because my app is crappy (which I probably know myself) and they don't want to throw out money (why to put advertising money in a crappy app in the first place, when we all know that it won't do anything?), then I don't need them as publishers, because I can be unsuccessful on my own too.
If they pick apps for marketing based on quality, then the others, who are not picked, can be very angry with reason.
If they allow every crap under their flag anyway, then even if I develop the second Angry Birds, my game will be unnoticed, because there is no marketing and because users will see "oh it's a GS game, it is probably crap, so I don't even try to download".
So, what's the deal?
Why should I stay with GS?
Don't you see people, that you struggle around with a software, which would not even go through as alpha version in better circles, but they still want to tell you, how happy you will be, if you work with them, even if you lose more and more on the deal.
To develop such a system you need people and time, which are missing in developing the actual software.
So you will get the same non functional thing with a contract, you can't escape and you will just lose on every corner with it.
I have been harsh in earlier posts, perhaps too harsh (Most probably due to the annoyance that I have to continue to code my games manually.
Although not the same, one company I worked for was sold on to another company and even though it meant massive changes to us who worked there and some initial difficulties for our customers not a single person could say anything about it. We had to grin and pretend nothing was happening. In the end the company was better for it. Much better.
So although the initial release info seems wrong on all counts, it would be better to just wait and see. Who knows it could actually end up being a good thing.
We should wait and see...
Cheers
Mike R
Is it a bird?
No!
Is it a plane?!
No!
It's a moderator coming to delete the post. HA HA.
That's a funny video though. It does look pretty bad for GameSalad. They should have resolved this issue already or at least leave up Pro and Express until they officially launch GameSalad Direct® -- I don't see the logic with turning off a source of income and frustrating the members of an excellent community.
Does anyone really know what this all is about? Is there any reason at all to continue developing in GameSalad?
Please let me know?
THATS RIGHT IT SOUNDS LIKE COMMUNISM!!!
GameSalad get your head on strait this is an insult we live in America let us own our games not you!
Pay for this, pay for that and then they take a % omg
Let's wait and see when they publish hard numbers but i fear the worse
Darren.
You do NOT announce something then wait forever to announce the fine details. I'm surprised the forum hasn't crashed yet.
I can see 2000 posts before any firm announcement from GameSalad. (Well, HellSalad for now) *added HellSalad to tags.
last month you said you were leaving the forums, and now you are back complaining?
They will release when they are ready, they have made that clear havn't they?
I appreciate the hardwork that Gendai has done and very much appreciate that I have a drag and drop editor. My partner and I were discussing it and perhaps we could use Corona. However because of our real life constraints such as school and work we would rather spend our time on the creation of the game rather than build an engine and get all the components working first... not to mention I'd have to learn Lua first as well. We still don't know if GS can handle what we want it to do, but definitely want to give it a shot.
This being said, since this is our first app... marketing, promotion, trailers, etc, etc. is a first for us and I don't know how much time we have for that. Not to mention, if it doesn't take off at all, would we lose more in the end than what we gain?
As I said earlier, before I completely judge the Direct option I am curious. If it does become the only option to license and their royalties or whatever fees are reasonable such as even charging royalties for so long until say they've made the equivalent of what they'd make if they charged you for Pro, maybe we'll try.
AND afaik, if you make a game under GS Direct let's say and it starts to take off, if there is nothing locking you in their contract, you could always make a new version of the game concurrently in code. If you're game really takes off, you could pull out and rerelease under your own brand. You're always free to choose when and when you don't want to use their software.
This is going to be interesting to see. I am glad that there were some yellow posts assuring that they were working on the details and preparing to update everyone. I still criticize that they put up a blog post stating that the old license options will be scrapped but no info beyond that. The best way would have been saying, "Direct will be a revolutionary new service" or something like that and NOT stating scrapping old license options until the day they can give out all the info.