CoIin said: @cavedawes, you should read the email they sent out. It includes this line:
"When you publish through GameSalad Direct, you will still be able to brand your game uniquely to you".
That sounds like it isn't branded to GS.
When you submit any app you can specify the copyright holder name. For example I have published a few games for my brother. The developer bit still says my name, but underneath it says his company name.
And in the big box under it it will say 'More iPhone Apps by GameSalad' followed by a big list of games that aren't mine and might be rubbish. And at the top it will say GameSalad at the end of the breadcrumb trail bit, and when people click it then it will show more games that aren't mine and might be rubbish.
So sure yeah, my name will be on one small bit of it. But anything clickable will link to other GS titles, not mine.
But if by branding they are in fact refering to the title you put on your game and your own logo on it then that has always been possible.
CoIin said: @cavedawes, you should read the email they sent out. It includes this line:
"When you publish through GameSalad Direct, you will still be able to brand your game uniquely to you".
That sounds like it isn't branded to GS.
Actually, a statement like that makes no such promise. That's so loose a promise that would allow for quite a lot. For example, they could tag their name right on top of your game and put your name buried inside or underneath.
Actually that's an interesting point. gamesalad are not the developer, but that is where their name will go on your app profile in itunes. Just checked angry birds and it is the same. The developer's name is not where it says 'developer'.
StusApps said: When you submit any app you can specify the copyright holder name. For example I have published a few games for my brother. The developer bit still says my name, but underneath it says his company name.
And in the big box under it it will say 'More iPhone Apps by GameSalad' followed by a big list of games that aren't mine and might be rubbish. And at the top it will say GameSalad at the end of the breadcrumb trail bit, and when people click it then it will show more games that aren't mine and might be rubbish.
So sure yeah, my name will be on one small bit of it. But anything clickable will link to other GS titles, not mine.
But if by branding they are in fact refering to the title you put on your game and your own logo on it then that has always been possible.
This seems an accurate representation of what is most likely to happen.
@Colin@dhondon Thanks, but I saw the message and I'm still not convinced. I may have got this wrong, but with Gamesalad Direct it seems you might not even need to be a signed up Apple Developer, you just download GS, create your game and send it to GS to put on the app store. This is of course me surmising. I guess you'll be able to put your logo on your app, but I think the GS one will also be there like with the cheaper current Express membership, plus how will they separate your app from others on the store, rather than all being published under GS Direct.
It could get to a situation a bit like American Idol with no vetting where you get thousands etc of contestants thinking they can sing with only a few who really can. In the case of the TV programme, only a handful do eventually go through, but If GS Direct becomes like American Idol without the vetting you could end up with masses of dross from would be games developers thinking they've got what it takes which will ultimately devalue the really good GS created games.
However I'm not suggesting GS vet games, because this can be too subjective, and this is somewhat venturing into dangerous territory as it doesn't encourage new untried innovation and can close down new and exciting creativity. Hopefully developers will still be able to release their own games via GS direct but under their own brands/names rather under a than under a publisher's name and then let the consumer choose, based on that game maker/brand rather than seeing them as just another GS game and what their preconceptions of that means to them as a paying game player.
Please bear in mind that since my conversations with the lovely guys at GS, things may have changed. However, I'll try and comment as accurately as I can:
cavedawes said: @Colin@dhondon Thanks, but I saw the message and I'm still not convinced. I may have got this wrong, but with Gamesalad Direct it seems you might not even need to be a signed up Apple Developer, you just download GS, create your game and send it to GS to put on the app store. This is of course me surmising. I guess you'll be able to put your logo on your app, but I think the GS one will also be there like with the cheaper current Express membership.
This is accurate.
cavedawes said: If GS Direct becomes like American Idol without the vetting you could end up with masses of dross from would be games developers thinking they've got what it takes which will ultimately devalue the really good GS created games.
Again, an accurate assessment. This is why there are probably submission fees. Firstly, to cover the cost of vetting for bugs. They will likely make sure that buggy software will not get through. Secondly, it's supposed to act as a deterrent to the 'masses of dross' as people will need to pay to upload a game to the service.
The first part is an ok idea. The second part I don't believe will work. If 14 year old kids can afford the $200 minimum needed ($99 to apple + $99 to GS for express) then the submission fees, which will have to be less than $200 (more likely between $20 and $40 per app) will not deter anyone.
The COO recently posted:
"There are also some administrative fees related to publishing. The specific amounts and revenue shares will be posted once we release GameSalad Direct. They key benefit of this pricing model is that it allows more people to try their hand at making games because the tool is free, but also encourages quality."
'Quality' here is a reference to bug free software. It does not refer to how good a title is.
cavedawes said: However I'm not suggesting GS vet games, because this can be too subjective, and this is somewhat venturing into dangerous territory as it doesn't encourage new untried innovation and can close down new and exciting creativity.
Agreed. Quality is subjective. Which is why the quality control will more likely focus on buggy software.
I just wanted to clarify something.. When my subscription ends, the apps I've built with Gamesalad will still be available on the appstore, I just won't be able to update them, right? Or is there any possibility that non- "Gamesalad Direct" games will be taken off the appstore, once the GS subscription ends?
I'm guessing not, but I just want to be sure, as I haven't found this in clear typing anywhere.
Strobanik said: I just wanted to clarify something.. When my subscription ends, the apps I've built with Gamesalad will still be available on the appstore, I just won't be able to update them, right? Or is there any possibility that non- "Gamesalad Direct" games will be taken off the appstore, once the GS subscription ends?
I'm guessing not, but I just want to be sure, as I haven't found this in clear typing anywhere.
Thanks
They have no way of removing your apps, they are yours.
On the other hand gamesalad direct games could be removed at any point by them if they wanted. Or say ..... they went bankrupt and then every single game is gone.
Strobanik said: I just wanted to clarify something.. When my subscription ends, the apps I've built with Gamesalad will still be available on the appstore, I just won't be able to update them, right? Or is there any possibility that non- "Gamesalad Direct" games will be taken off the appstore, once the GS subscription ends?
I'm guessing not, but I just want to be sure, as I haven't found this in clear typing anywhere.
Thanks
You games will stay on your itunes page for as long as your Apple subscription is in effect. It's totally separate from GS.
@quantumsheep Cheers! These thoughts are just me thinking out aloud and thinking through the GS Direct strategies for a business development model as based upon some of my experiences in the business world. Ultimately it'll be down to the individual developer to accept the final model that GameSalad Direct becomes or choose other delivery systems like Unity 3D or Ansca's Corona which is also a very good way of producing creative apps.
"once GameSalad Direct is in place, we will be able to easily connect players of one GameSalad game with other GameSalad games, increasing downloads across the community."
This sort of implies the big GS brand even more. All sort of connected... to every other GS game?
cavedawes said: @quantumsheep Cheers! These thoughts are just me thinking out aloud and thinking through the GS Direct strategies for a business development model as based upon some of my experiences in the business world. Ultimately it'll be down to the individual developer to accept the final model that GameSalad Direct becomes or choose other delivery systems like Unity 3D or Ansca's Corona which is also a very good way of producing creative apps.
Regards,
Nick
No problem.
People are understandably very emotional right now, and I don't think *anyone* in their right mind can blame them!
It's nice though to see some well reasoned responses from the likes of yourself, Stusapps and others!
quantumsheep said: Please bear in mind that since my conversations with the lovely guys at GS, things may have changed. However, I'll try and comment as accurately as I can:
cavedawes said: "... I guess you'll be able to put your logo on your app, but I think the GS one will also be there like with the cheaper current Express membership. "
This is accurate.
Whoa, stop the stagecoach! I had been under the impression that GSDirect, along with the software update it accompanied, would give us "all the benefits of Pro", including swapping out the GS loading screen. I stand corrected, alas.
maniraptor said: Whoa, stop the stagecoach! I had been under the impression that GSDirect, along with the software update it accompanied, would give us "all the benefits of Pro", including swapping out the GS loading screen. I stand corrected, alas.
Ha!
I actually referenced ESB when I was first let in on this.
I thought it was funny then. Now it just seems accurate :O
One fair way to do the promotion of other GS games might be to list the other games by the same author, then maybe related GS games, and finally a link to a web site for all GS games. If GameSalad set up pages to promote the games in the way ngmoco does, then that would be ok.
Also, the links in the App Store need not be to GameSalad. Look at Angry Birds as an example. It's a Chillingo title, but the iPad one links to Rovio's site, and the iPhone version links to ClickGamer's site, the two developers of the actual apps. Surely that would be an acceptable compromise?
CoIin said: One fair way to do the promotion of other GS games might be to list the other games by the same author, then maybe related GS games, and finally a link to a web site for all GS games. If GameSalad set up pages to promote the games in the way ngmoco does, then that would be ok.
Also, the links in the App Store need not be to GameSalad. Look at Angry Birds as an example. It's a Chillingo title, but the iPad one links to Rovio's site, and the iPhone version links to ClickGamer's site, the two developers of the actual apps. Surely that would be an acceptable compromise?
Umm, in one word, No
It's okay that GS wishes to move forward with GS direct, so long as they're not forcing everyone into the plan.
They need to offer options, or most of the Pro users will walk.
A lot of people have worked hard to build up their website, their name, and don't want a publisher.
It's pretty simple, and cut and dry for me.
I'm just hoping they will modify the plan, and add Pro, and make everyone in the community happy once again.
I will 120% support Gamesalad if they do this, and would even do marketing on my website for them if they give us Pro back.
@colin@quantumsheep@maniaraptor Firstly Colin some great points, ideally that's the way I think it should work, so that even if GS becomes your publisher you're still listed as the developer, which means the app store top link only shows your produced games, even if you're badged with the GS Logo somewhere. Secondly Robot Chicken are brilliant stop motion animators and the Darth Vader Altering the Deal one had me in stitches, so much so that GameSalad should adopt it as their new viral video promo lol
As to submission fees, yes at the moment you pay $200 ($99 to GS + $99 to Apple), but then you're free to create as many apps as possible with Apple taking a 30% cut of sales revenue from every app you submit. If GS Direct charges per app submission this may well act as a deterrent e.g. to submit games now on the Express membership would cost $200, but if there's a submission charge, even $50 per app, for 10 that'll still be $500 dollars, before Apple take their cut from each app.
If you're a book author then their publisher takes care of distribution, marketing, PR etc so for any submission charge will GameSalad as publisher offer these services too, to give the developer greater exposure amongst the 300,000 apps the paying customer can now choose from which eventually lead to greater sales and more revenue for all parties involved? Just a thought!
Just a thought, but what if they plan on releasing a GameSalad Store/Player App whereby they leverage in app purchases within their player to deliver our games as "books" to anyone who has downloaded the free player.
Our games, after all, are more like interactive documents than they are like executable code.
Suddenly in this scenario the GS brand becomes a way for everyone to create games, but all be housed under the same GS store without polluting the AppStore with trash. Then in GS's store they can promote the best games. Even spinning them off into AppStore games if worthy.
Yeah...some of us are out in the cold very soon where as others have a few months to see how it goes. We should all be given the chance to buy a six month extension to our current licenses if necessary.
Anyone who is serious, simply needs to be looking at Unity, Corona, XCode/Cocos2d, or whatever. Face it, you are not going to change what they are thinking, even worse you are only causing a further delay.
I got the email which Im sure most of you got. I really was surprised that it offered basically 0 details over what we already knew. Im going out on a limb by saying that Im sure people at GS offices are probably giving birth to a monkey right now trying to figure out how to fix this mess.
As Im here packing up my apartment in Atlanta, and moving back to San Diego to sleep on my cousins couch, it had me thinking...why would they do this?
Im going to take a stab at what they were probably thinking before the backlash of their announcement, I could be totally wrong, if I am, no harm no foul. If Im close to being right, it will give a better insight as to what they were thinking.
Sales of the $100 express were probably decent, look at the forums...lots of express users out there. but Im assuming the $2000 pro version were far less. And they were probably seeing some apps making some fair amounts of money, and they had no way to cash in on it. And it had them wondering how to get a taste, especially if they were not doing well financially.
Their pricing model wasn't working to sustain the company as it had to continually keep up with the ever changing features of the OS and hardware to retain a customer base. Programmers are not cheap, read my previous posts, 50-100 an hr for most. If they were going to remain solvent, they probably needed to bring in more revenue, and that leaves them with a problem. They couldn't get more sales by lowering the price of Pro....its current subscriber base would have a cow if someone comes along 3 months later and gets if for 1000 or 500. They were in effect, stuck with their current pricing model. And since the features list between 99-2000 differed by only 2 things, no splash and URL forwarding, that didn't leave a lot of room to tier another version in between now did it?
No, they had to figure a way to get money on a per-game basis without pissing off current subscribers, or royalties like some other engines are doing (unity) if the user was lucky enough to reach a certain number of sales. And since the chances of most games here on GS wouldn't reach those types of numbers, (and figured no one would report sales numbers to pay royalties) they needed to get a cut off of EVERY game. That includes the weak ones that only make $10 a month. The only route was the one they chose. Which is control the release of every game and create cross promotions in the games they see selling. This way they don't have to worry about collecting or keeping track of games that make over a certain % where royalties kick in. They were planning on cutting that % off the top of EVERYONE.
They must have known that publishing every game was going to be a massive undertaking. Both in handling users information, and money. I wont even go into the obvious problems with games having bugs or just generally being unplayable because of poor quality (they wont be getting any cross promotion). Im not sure what plans they had in place for that, but most publishers have an army of pinheads and bean counters for this. Brand managers, production assistants, developer relations, QA, financial, legal...yeah I've worked at the largest game publisher ever, its a machine, and not a cheap one to keep fed either.
Maybe they think they can do it on the cheap? Who knows, but Id love to be a fly on the wall 6 months from now when people are not only bitching about slow to no responses on the engine and tool, or updates, but let money enter the picture...its going to be a bloodbath....lol.
So, what were they hedging GS's success on? I think what they were relying on was the established developers carrying the weaker titles. To play ball, otherwise why would they get in contact with the current successful GS users and let the know of the changes ahead of time? They wanted them, no, needed them on board. Mostly for whatever kind of cross promotion that would happen. They counted on everyone being excited to have that cross promotion to their game on a successful one like Bumps.
I dont think they saw the revolt that was coming. Maybe they thought they were going to roll into GameSaladLand riding on top of GSDirect and be seen as liberators...(sound familiar?) Democracy is here...rejoice, you're free!
My guess is that if they lose the good devs and the apps they have...they are in trouble. Im also guessing they might have plans to force the more successful users (even the guys that remain on the current PRO system) to cross promote as part of their new user agreement. No one is going to pull an APP making money off the appstore, if all it takes is adding some sort of promotion splash page to other GS apps, or the GS page itself. They theoretically could add in the new user agreement that you cant build any new versions of your app unless you agree to some kind of in game advertising. Thats probably a detail they are hiding if thats the case, and Its pretty evil, and I cant see that happening. Again I could be totally off base...who knows, or I could have just gave them an idea...DOH!...sorry guys.
I think charging per release, and royalties covers both bases for them. Weaker games that only gets 20 downloads mostly from friends and family will still garner them some small cash from a $10 or $20 release charge. And by some act of god, it breaks out...cha ching....they get a royalty cut. Its genius really, and if they had started this system from the very beginning, I think they would have done well, even with all of GS's failings in stability and limited features.
Whomever thought this up...had a solid business plan.
***EDIT*** I just want to again say that for 95% of you, this is a win-win.
Comments
"When you publish through GameSalad Direct, you will still be able to brand your game uniquely to you".
That sounds like it isn't branded to GS.
But maybe I'm reading this wrong.
Therefore in itunes it will say:
Developer: GameSalad
© StusApps
And in the big box under it it will say 'More iPhone Apps by GameSalad' followed by a big list of games that aren't mine and might be rubbish. And at the top it will say GameSalad at the end of the breadcrumb trail bit, and when people click it then it will show more games that aren't mine and might be rubbish.
So sure yeah, my name will be on one small bit of it. But anything clickable will link to other GS titles, not mine.
But if by branding they are in fact refering to the title you put on your game and your own logo on it then that has always been possible.
For example, they could tag their name right on top of your game and put your name buried inside or underneath.
EDIT:: you guys beat me to it.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
It could get to a situation a bit like American Idol with no vetting where you get thousands etc of contestants thinking they can sing with only a few who really can. In the case of the TV programme, only a handful do eventually go through, but If GS Direct becomes like American Idol without the vetting you could end up with masses of dross from would be games developers thinking they've got what it takes which will ultimately devalue the really good GS created games.
However I'm not suggesting GS vet games, because this can be too subjective, and this is somewhat venturing into dangerous territory as it doesn't encourage new untried innovation and can close down new and exciting creativity. Hopefully developers will still be able to release their own games via GS direct but under their own brands/names rather under a than under a publisher's name and then let the consumer choose, based on that game maker/brand rather than seeing them as just another GS game and what their preconceptions of that means to them as a paying game player.
Secondly, it's supposed to act as a deterrent to the 'masses of dross' as people will need to pay to upload a game to the service.
The first part is an ok idea. The second part I don't believe will work. If 14 year old kids can afford the $200 minimum needed ($99 to apple + $99 to GS for express) then the submission fees, which will have to be less than $200 (more likely between $20 and $40 per app) will not deter anyone.
The COO recently posted:
"There are also some administrative fees related to publishing. The specific amounts and revenue shares will be posted once we release GameSalad Direct. They key benefit of this pricing model is that it allows more people to try their hand at making games because the tool is free, but also encourages quality."
'Quality' here is a reference to bug free software. It does not refer to how good a title is. Agreed. Quality is subjective. Which is why the quality control will more likely focus on buggy software.
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I'm guessing not, but I just want to be sure, as I haven't found this in clear typing anywhere.
Thanks
On the other hand gamesalad direct games could be removed at any point by them if they wanted. Or say ..... they went bankrupt and then every single game is gone.
Hope that helps, sir!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Regards,
Nick
People are understandably very emotional right now, and I don't think *anyone* in their right mind can blame them!
It's nice though to see some well reasoned responses from the likes of yourself, Stusapps and others!
Good luck!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I actually referenced ESB when I was first let in on this.
I thought it was funny then. Now it just seems accurate :O
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Also, the links in the App Store need not be to GameSalad. Look at Angry Birds as an example. It's a Chillingo title, but the iPad one links to Rovio's site, and the iPhone version links to ClickGamer's site, the two developers of the actual apps. Surely that would be an acceptable compromise?
It's okay that GS wishes to move forward with GS direct, so long as they're not forcing everyone into the plan.
They need to offer options, or most of the Pro users will walk.
A lot of people have worked hard to build up their website, their name, and don't want a publisher.
It's pretty simple, and cut and dry for me.
I'm just hoping they will modify the plan, and add Pro, and make everyone in the community happy once again.
I will 120% support Gamesalad if they do this, and would even do marketing on my website for them if they give us Pro back.
/hi5
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
As to submission fees, yes at the moment you pay $200 ($99 to GS + $99 to Apple), but then you're free to create as many apps as possible with Apple taking a 30% cut of sales revenue from every app you submit. If GS Direct charges per app submission this may well act as a deterrent e.g. to submit games now on the Express membership would cost $200, but if there's a submission charge, even $50 per app, for 10 that'll still be $500 dollars, before Apple take their cut from each app.
If you're a book author then their publisher takes care of distribution, marketing, PR etc so for any submission charge will GameSalad as publisher offer these services too, to give the developer greater exposure amongst the 300,000 apps the paying customer can now choose from which eventually lead to greater sales and more revenue for all parties involved? Just a thought!
Our games, after all, are more like interactive documents than they are like executable code.
Suddenly in this scenario the GS brand becomes a way for everyone to create games, but all be housed under the same GS store without polluting the AppStore with trash. Then in GS's store they can promote the best games. Even spinning them off into AppStore games if worthy.
I think apple will kill it.
Would i publish under GameSalad Direct and the GameSalad Company broken, then all of my apps are gone and no money is coming.
My express membership expires in 14 days
Now i'm looking for a new development platform, i' really pissed of, what gamesalad is doing.
Now we just need all the facts!
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
As Im here packing up my apartment in Atlanta, and moving back to San Diego to sleep on my cousins couch, it had me thinking...why would they do this?
Im going to take a stab at what they were probably thinking before the backlash of their announcement, I could be totally wrong, if I am, no harm no foul. If Im close to being right, it will give a better insight as to what they were thinking.
Sales of the $100 express were probably decent, look at the forums...lots of express users out there. but Im assuming the $2000 pro version were far less. And they were probably seeing some apps making some fair amounts of money, and they had no way to cash in on it. And it had them wondering how to get a taste, especially if they were not doing well financially.
Their pricing model wasn't working to sustain the company as it had to continually keep up with the ever changing features of the OS and hardware to retain a customer base. Programmers are not cheap, read my previous posts, 50-100 an hr for most. If they were going to remain solvent, they probably needed to bring in more revenue, and that leaves them with a problem. They couldn't get more sales by lowering the price of Pro....its current subscriber base would have a cow if someone comes along 3 months later and gets if for 1000 or 500. They were in effect, stuck with their current pricing model. And since the features list between 99-2000 differed by only 2 things, no splash and URL forwarding, that didn't leave a lot of room to tier another version in between now did it?
No, they had to figure a way to get money on a per-game basis without pissing off current subscribers, or royalties like some other engines are doing (unity) if the user was lucky enough to reach a certain number of sales. And since the chances of most games here on GS wouldn't reach those types of numbers, (and figured no one would report sales numbers to pay royalties) they needed to get a cut off of EVERY game. That includes the weak ones that only make $10 a month. The only route was the one they chose. Which is control the release of every game and create cross promotions in the games they see selling. This way they don't have to worry about collecting or keeping track of games that make over a certain % where royalties kick in. They were planning on cutting that % off the top of EVERYONE.
They must have known that publishing every game was going to be a massive undertaking. Both in handling users information, and money. I wont even go into the obvious problems with games having bugs or just generally being unplayable because of poor quality (they wont be getting any cross promotion). Im not sure what plans they had in place for that, but most publishers have an army of pinheads and bean counters for this. Brand managers, production assistants, developer relations, QA, financial, legal...yeah I've worked at the largest game publisher ever, its a machine, and not a cheap one to keep fed either.
Maybe they think they can do it on the cheap? Who knows, but Id love to be a fly on the wall 6 months from now when people are not only bitching about slow to no responses on the engine and tool, or updates, but let money enter the picture...its going to be a bloodbath....lol.
So, what were they hedging GS's success on? I think what they were relying on was the established developers carrying the weaker titles. To play ball, otherwise why would they get in contact with the current successful GS users and let the know of the changes ahead of time? They wanted them, no, needed them on board. Mostly for whatever kind of cross promotion that would happen. They counted on everyone being excited to have that cross promotion to their game on a successful one like Bumps.
I dont think they saw the revolt that was coming. Maybe they thought they were going to roll into GameSaladLand riding on top of GSDirect and be seen as liberators...(sound familiar?) Democracy is here...rejoice, you're free!
My guess is that if they lose the good devs and the apps they have...they are in trouble. Im also guessing they might have plans to force the more successful users (even the guys that remain on the current PRO system) to cross promote as part of their new user agreement. No one is going to pull an APP making money off the appstore, if all it takes is adding some sort of promotion splash page to other GS apps, or the GS page itself. They theoretically could add in the new user agreement that you cant build any new versions of your app unless you agree to some kind of in game advertising. Thats probably a detail they are hiding if thats the case, and Its pretty evil, and I cant see that happening. Again I could be totally off base...who knows, or I could have just gave them an idea...DOH!...sorry guys.
I think charging per release, and royalties covers both bases for them. Weaker games that only gets 20 downloads mostly from friends and family will still garner them some small cash from a $10 or $20 release charge. And by some act of god, it breaks out...cha ching....they get a royalty cut. Its genius really, and if they had started this system from the very beginning, I think they would have done well, even with all of GS's failings in stability and limited features.
Whomever thought this up...had a solid business plan.
***EDIT*** I just want to again say that for 95% of you, this is a win-win.