@QS: I agree with you and see your point and where you're coming from.
You don't want to Jinx anything in a way, and don't want to get too hopeful just like some of us did with the launch of the iPad, and how disappointing it was with the initial release of our games.
I completely understand, there are no guarantees.
I don't think anyone can truly predict what will happen, but just to have the opportunity to utilize iAds, and see where it takes us is good enough for me, and like you, I hope to be pleasantly surprised!
It's so easy to have inflated expectations, but difficult when the outcome isn't such.
Much wiser to hope for the best, and expect the worst I guess.
I'm just going to rely on making a good, playable game... although sometimes that doesn't work, from what I've heard about sales of Jungle Bug... which is a fantastic little game. I do think iAds should DEFINITELY be available to us, as it's up to us as to whether or not we want the ads in our games and that choice shouldn't be made for us. Personally, though I'm not keen to put them in MY games... at least not the first few I have planned... would totally destroy the style of the games and would not fit in AT ALL.
But yeah, we should definitely have the option. I'd rather have in-app purchasing, though
quantumsheep said: But who are you going to blame if iAds makes no money for you? Are you going to take your apple devices back to the store and say 'I was expecting to make a fortune with iAds - I demand a refund!'?
No, but I can sell the Mac hardware to recoup some of the losses... or I can simply turn it into a sidekick for my TV. I don't consider this a gamble. I consider it a profession. If people don't even want my apps when they're free, then I have no excuses. Heh, then I'm just a lousy developer.
JamesZeppelin said: Maybe a blank iad could serve as a pause
lol
I was just thinking about creating a game with gamesalad that wasn't a game, but a bunch of Ads for my local grocery store... then I'd put iAds on it. So it'd be ads advertising ads. But nobody would care about Bob's supermarket. hmm.. I might need to re-think this.
So let me make sure I understand this in as simple of terms as possible!
1: You sign up for iAd, and decide to put it in an application. Regardless of weather it takes adding code or not, you make your app iAd ready, and then Apple picks from one of the many big name companies who build an iAd advertisement and it advertises in your app?
2: You then ALSO have the ability to design an iAd to use in your app, but if you dont want to design one, Apple will supply the really cool and very well made pro ad?
iAds is just another tool. No its not a magic golden goose. To make money at it...you would need 100s of 1000s of downloads to get enough clicks to make a substantial profit.
But its an option. Paper toss is a good example. It would not do that well as a $0.99 app but as a freebie...its wildly successful.
The formula is this... #downloads x #ad click potential per user x $0.05 x %of users active per day x 20% of ad clicks executed = daily profit. so... 100,000 downloads x 2 ad clicks/user x $0.05 x 5% x 20% = $100/day
Its hypothetical but feasible. So if you had 100K users active...then you might generate $100/day. But you have to have an app that can generate that much interest and have enough playability that it gets played often.
@James You do not have control over the ads...they are fed by Apple...so a blank iAd is not possible as a pause.
iPhoneDevForMe said: So let me make sure I understand this in as simple of terms as possible!
1: You sign up for iAd, and decide to put it in an application. Regardless of weather it takes adding code or not, you make your app iAd ready, and then Apple picks from one of the many big name companies who build an iAd advertisement and it advertises in your app?
2: You then ALSO have the ability to design an iAd to use in your app, but if you dont want to design one, Apple will supply the really cool and very well made pro ad?
Redundancy seems to make me sound more clear!
1) I believe the way it works is that when you submit your app to Apple, you check the box on upload of the binary if you want to incorporate iAds. Then once approved, the ad bar is placed on the edge of the screen...similar to the time/power meter bar. Then if the user taps on the ad bar, your game is frozen and the Ad runs over the top of the game. Then when the user is finished...they exit the ad and return to your game. The pause will be automatic on your game...part of the OS4.
2) All ads are fed by Apple...much like Google Ads...you don't control what ads the player sees. You just provide the portal access point. In exchange, they share 60% of the revenue from the click value the company paid to display the ad...probably about $.10-.15 per click. So you make about $.10 when the ad is executed. _______________________
*** visit www.spiritApps.com to check out the Spirit Connoisseur Apps *** (Rum and Vodka now available for 17+)
2) All ads are fed by Apple...much like Google Ads...you don't control what ads the player sees. You just provide the portal access point. In exchange, they share 60% of the revenue from the click value the company paid to display the ad...probably about $.10-.15 per click. So you make about $.10 when the ad is executed. _______________________
*** visit www.spiritApps.com to check out the Spirit Connoisseur Apps *** (Rum and Vodka now available for 17+)
But google ads are targeted to keywords and meta tags and such... So will iAds work similarly?
Thats what I thought, but then I got an email from Apple about iAd, here's what it said:
"Create iAd rich media ads for iPhone OS applications
iAd JS provides you with the foundation to design and create rich media ads that incorporate audio, video, graphics, and animation. iPhone Developer Program members can download iAd JS and supporting technical documentation from the iPhone Dev Center."
@jweaver I don't know how Apple will determine what ads to feed to what app. I suppose they have some "magic algorithms" to determine that. But it is set up around a pay-per-click system. The more ads you feed to your app (where the user taps and views the ad) the more income you harvest. its a numbers game. More discussion starting on this on www.GSProForum.com under the GameSalad News section.
*** visit www.spiritApps.com to check out the Spirit Connoisseur Apps *** (Rum and Vodka now available for 17+) _______________________
@iPhoneDev Yes...I believe that you can become an indie ad Developer. You need to be an expert in HTML5 though - the future native web replacement language of Flash. Beyond that short answer...you may want to join a iPhone or HTML5 Dev forum for more info/specifics. Apple is using HTML5 to cut Adobe Flash out of the game. This is what REALLY chapped Adobe's ass. Adobe is behind the curve...and still trying to find ways to keep Flash relevant. HTML5 is the future for at least the next 10 years.
iAd income is a little bonus, a crappy musical greetings card on your birthday, a free dipping sauce with your fries, a smile from a girl (an ugly one). It's a little flattery, designed to distract you from the fact that your games, are underpriced.
But hey, don't feel too bad. Cheap apps have given us a very large market to play in, and for consumers it's a win. This iAd after thought is just a way to try to tip the balance a little our way, without removing what really makes the iPhone sell, cheap apps.
But the App Store is still stealing your lunch money, only now we're not supposed to mind so much.
In the end, it'll make little difference to the investment/reward equation. The only way you win is to keep your investment the same as it's always been, then you'll see a bonus in your bank account. But chasing the iAd dollar with special features, especially those that compromise your game, means you're going to loose out.
Ok, you can make your app free and try to make money from ad clicks alone. But we've yet to see how many people interested in free apps, are also interested in buying a car.
Anyway, i think what's more important is the qwerty keyboard issue. I mean think about it. It was designed in 1874, and the language we use has changed dramatically since then. I'd like to see an international campaign to end this inefficiency madness. Just think of the lives we could save, the hungry fed, the dolphins homed, just think how much better biscuits would taste. WAKE UP PEOPLE.
Still not convinced? okay here are some numbers.
5 billion downloads, with 1 billion payed to developers. Making the average developer profit per download $0.20.
Apple have raised $60million for the second half of 2010 with iAds. lets double that for the whole year : $120million. Now lets be optimistic and assume iAds really takes off and double it again : $240million.
Now lets take our cut 60% : $140million.
What would have happened if iAds had been launched the same time as the app store? How much more would developers have been paid?
$144million x 2years : $288million
And the result?
Your downloads are now worth an average $0.26 each. WooHoo! Good luck on figuring out what you're going to spend the money on. In the meantime you might as well convince yourself you're going to save the dolphins, by changing the qwerty layout.
Actually its even worse that what my numbers suggest. The extra $0.06 will be distributed according the the popularity of the app, so if your app isn't in the top 20.. well let's just call it what it is. A bonus for EA and GameLoft.
EDIT - @POLYGAMe so you're against ninjas AND dolphins
That's okay, EA deserve bonuses for making Road Rash, the original 3DO Need for Speed and John Madden Football '92. Unfortunately everything they have touched since the early nineties been smelly brown stuff.
Sometime ago, in Australia, an advert was running on late night TV for some mobile phone sex game. It used footage of The Sims 2.
I took the time to contact EA, who messed me around a lot - and was able to let them know that their footage was being used on this ad. It was then confirmed that it was without their consent.
I've been developing iPhone apps for over a year, and while I'm a complete GS noob - I know my way around the AppStore and have experience with AdMob.
I guess the main points that seem to be missed in this thread are:
Ads are used to generate revenue from free games. That is, games that are made to be free. It is rare for an experienced iPhone developer to go out with a goal of making lots of money from ads. Free applications are marketing tools - their sole purpose is (or should be) to encourage someone to spend money on a full version. In this regard, iAds play a much more important role than making money (though that is nice) - they annoy people.
People hate ads, and if they really enjoy a game, will be willing to pay to remove them. And if they don't like the game enough to pay for it, then there is a high chance that they would not have paid for it in the first place - so the 5 cents you got from them is brilliant.
So my advice is yes, embrace iAds - but think smart about it. If you have a game out there with say, 50 levels, it would be very beneficial to release a free, iAd supported version with 10 levels.
Of course, the downside is that without a pro GS, you can't link to the paid version. This is why it costs so much more, I suspect.
I think Gendai Games shouldn't prevent developers from making money. So, OK, they want to charge for hyperlinks. Perhaps the express version could create iTunes links.
But in general, I don't think hyperlinks should be a feature restricted to pro.... export to xcode, technical support, those are pro level features.
Heh... what if we wanted to create a link to GameSalad? We can't do that
I have no real inside knowledge, but codemonkey once gave the equivalent of a wink-wink to the notion that while in Beta GS is actually discouraging people from going pro because they want the GS loading screen as advertising for their product. So the ridiculous price of 1999 is most likely an intentional way of driving people to express. So my hope is that when GS leaves beta it will have a new pricing structure.
You know, if the loading times weren't so bad, I might not have a problem with the GameSalad splash screen. It's professional to show the parties involved. Like when I load up Halo for PC...
Bungie... then Gear Box... then Microsoft Game Studios
So, Commove could load like this... Photics logo... GameSalad logo... Commove title screen.
I don't mind the GS screen (in fact I was showing my app to a colleague the other day and she said "oooh, that's really professional!" I then had to tell her that I had nothing to do with that logo. LOL)... but I do want in app purchasing... if they are trying to discourage the pro version, then give us more in the basic one!
Comments
You don't want to Jinx anything in a way, and don't want to get too hopeful just like some of us did with the launch of the iPad, and how disappointing it was with the initial release of our games.
I completely understand, there are no guarantees.
I don't think anyone can truly predict what will happen, but just to have the opportunity to utilize iAds, and see where it takes us is good enough for me, and like you, I hope to be pleasantly surprised!
It's so easy to have inflated expectations, but difficult when the outcome isn't such.
Much wiser to hope for the best, and expect the worst I guess.
But yeah, we should definitely have the option. I'd rather have in-app purchasing, though
Iads isn't the magic bullet.
I just woulndnt mind having all the features. Gamecenter more so then iads anyways.
I was just thinking about creating a game with gamesalad that wasn't a game, but a bunch of Ads for my local grocery store... then I'd put iAds on it. So it'd be ads advertising ads. But nobody would care about Bob's supermarket. hmm.. I might need to re-think this.
1: You sign up for iAd, and decide to put it in an application. Regardless of weather it takes adding code or not, you make your app iAd ready, and then Apple picks from one of the many big name companies who build an iAd advertisement and it advertises in your app?
2: You then ALSO have the ability to design an iAd to use in your app, but if you dont want to design one, Apple will supply the really cool and very well made pro ad?
Redundancy seems to make me sound more clear!
But its an option. Paper toss is a good example. It would not do that well as a $0.99 app but as a freebie...its wildly successful.
The formula is this...
#downloads x #ad click potential per user x $0.05 x %of users active per day x 20% of ad clicks executed = daily profit.
so...
100,000 downloads x 2 ad clicks/user x $0.05 x 5% x 20% = $100/day
Its hypothetical but feasible. So if you had 100K users active...then you might generate $100/day. But you have to have an app that can generate that much interest and have enough playability that it gets played often.
@James
You do not have control over the ads...they are fed by Apple...so a blank iAd is not possible as a pause.
2) All ads are fed by Apple...much like Google Ads...you don't control what ads the player sees. You just provide the portal access point. In exchange, they share 60% of the revenue from the click value the company paid to display the ad...probably about $.10-.15 per click. So you make about $.10 when the ad is executed.
_______________________
*** visit www.spiritApps.com to check out the Spirit Connoisseur Apps ***
(Rum and Vodka now available for 17+)
"Create iAd rich media ads for iPhone OS applications
iAd JS provides you with the foundation to design and create rich media ads that incorporate audio, video, graphics, and animation. iPhone Developer Program members can download iAd JS and supporting technical documentation from the iPhone Dev Center."
I don't know how Apple will determine what ads to feed to what app. I suppose they have some "magic algorithms" to determine that. But it is set up around a pay-per-click system. The more ads you feed to your app (where the user taps and views the ad) the more income you harvest. its a numbers game. More discussion starting on this on www.GSProForum.com under the GameSalad News section.
QuickLink to iAds thread:
http://www.gsproforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=87
_______________________
*** visit www.spiritApps.com to check out the Spirit Connoisseur Apps ***
(Rum and Vodka now available for 17+)
_______________________
@iPhoneDev
Yes...I believe that you can become an indie ad Developer. You need to be an expert in HTML5 though - the future native web replacement language of Flash. Beyond that short answer...you may want to join a iPhone or HTML5 Dev forum for more info/specifics. Apple is using HTML5 to cut Adobe Flash out of the game. This is what REALLY chapped Adobe's ass. Adobe is behind the curve...and still trying to find ways to keep Flash relevant. HTML5 is the future for at least the next 10 years.
But hey, don't feel too bad. Cheap apps have given us a very large market to play in, and for consumers it's a win. This iAd after thought is just a way to try to tip the balance a little our way, without removing what really makes the iPhone sell, cheap apps.
But the App Store is still stealing your lunch money, only now we're not supposed to mind so much.
In the end, it'll make little difference to the investment/reward equation. The only way you win is to keep your investment the same as it's always been, then you'll see a bonus in your bank account. But chasing the iAd dollar with special features, especially those that compromise your game, means you're going to loose out.
Ok, you can make your app free and try to make money from ad clicks alone. But we've yet to see how many people interested in free apps, are also interested in buying a car.
Anyway, i think what's more important is the qwerty keyboard issue. I mean think about it. It was designed in 1874, and the language we use has changed dramatically since then. I'd like to see an international campaign to end this inefficiency madness. Just think of the lives we could save, the hungry fed, the dolphins homed, just think how much better biscuits would taste. WAKE UP PEOPLE.
Still not convinced? okay here are some numbers.
5 billion downloads, with 1 billion payed to developers. Making the average developer profit per download $0.20.
Apple have raised $60million for the second half of 2010 with iAds. lets double that for the whole year : $120million. Now lets be optimistic and assume iAds really takes off and double it again : $240million.
Now lets take our cut 60% : $140million.
What would have happened if iAds had been launched the same time as the app store? How much more would developers have been paid?
$144million x 2years : $288million
And the result?
Your downloads are now worth an average $0.26 each. WooHoo! Good luck on figuring out what you're going to spend the money on. In the meantime you might as well convince yourself you're going to save the dolphins, by changing the qwerty layout.
THANKS FOR BRINGING IT UP!!!
Although, at least it makes it harder for ninjas to kill me, according to a movie I saw recently.
EDIT - @POLYGAMe so you're against ninjas AND dolphins
"E.A. Sports... It's in the game!"
Sometime ago, in Australia, an advert was running on late night TV for some mobile phone sex game. It used footage of The Sims 2.
I took the time to contact EA, who messed me around a lot - and was able to let them know that their footage was being used on this ad. It was then confirmed that it was without their consent.
I asked for a copy of Spore. They said no. >:(
They could have at LEAST given you a copy of spore, so ridiculous :P
I guess the main points that seem to be missed in this thread are:
Ads are used to generate revenue from free games. That is, games that are made to be free.
It is rare for an experienced iPhone developer to go out with a goal of making lots of money from ads. Free applications are marketing tools - their sole purpose is (or should be) to encourage someone to spend money on a full version. In this regard, iAds play a much more important role than making money (though that is nice) - they annoy people.
People hate ads, and if they really enjoy a game, will be willing to pay to remove them. And if they don't like the game enough to pay for it, then there is a high chance that they would not have paid for it in the first place - so the 5 cents you got from them is brilliant.
So my advice is yes, embrace iAds - but think smart about it.
If you have a game out there with say, 50 levels, it would be very beneficial to release a free, iAd supported version with 10 levels.
Of course, the downside is that without a pro GS, you can't link to the paid version. This is why it costs so much more, I suspect.
End rant, hope that adds to the topic
But in general, I don't think hyperlinks should be a feature restricted to pro.... export to xcode, technical support, those are pro level features.
Heh... what if we wanted to create a link to GameSalad? We can't do that
Bungie... then Gear Box... then Microsoft Game Studios
So, Commove could load like this...
Photics logo... GameSalad logo... Commove title screen.