Im sorry to hear that from both of you. And i cant image anyone in my family ever doing that to me or me doing it to anyone els. (im only 15 years old)
Also @Photics Lets just forget about it you are taking it a little to harsh. Laughing is vary healthy. That joke shouldn't be taken offensively.
I think we should end this "fight" (argument) and go back to what the point in this thread which is iAds.
DanielA said: the point in this thread which is iAds.
Heh, I started a book project to avoid discussion on iAds. But unfortunately, it's not working. The book is fine, but I keep thinking about all the advertisement money I'm missing out on.
That's funny. I am hungry, but I wasn't thinking about sandwiches until you mentioned it. I often I just keep working even though I'm hungry.
I was playing with iAds in xcode today. It's a little more tricky than I imagined, but I got it to work in the simulator. So instead of thinking what I should eat for lunch, I'm wondering what project I should work on. Do I throw together a quick iAds app with xcode or do I wait for Gendai Games to put iAds in GameSalad? I don't know, but now now I have two GameSalad apps in the queue, that are waiting for iAds.
I've just made the best game in the universe ever. That's why I don't need iAds... seriously, it's that amazing... I've sold 50,000 units in the first day alone at $4.99 each.
Ha, I find myself thinking about GameSalad as I sleep. It's usually about game logic though. I can actually layout the basics of a game in my head, wake up the next day, and then get to work. That's how great GameSalad can be. But on the other side, GameSalad still doesn't have pause and iAds... PAUSE... my 8-BIT NES had pause.
Without pause, there wouldn't be the Blaster Master grenade trick!
Anyway, my game project is almost done. For now, I decided not to launch it without iAds. I'm going to work on the GameSalad Textbook project instead.
Photics said: Ha, I find myself thinking about GameSalad as I sleep. It's usually about game logic though. I can actually layout the basics of a game in my head, wake up the next day, and then get to work. That's how great GameSalad can be. But on the other side, GameSalad still doesn't have pause and iAds... PAUSE... my 8-BIT NES had pause.
Without pause, there wouldn't be the Blaster Master grenade trick!
Anyway, my game project is almost done. For now, I decided not to launch it without iAds. I'm going to work on the GameSalad Textbook project instead.
barkbark00 said: That's not really apples to apples...
No, it's not. Heh, but did you notice how I mentioned Blaster Master? The grenade trick exists because of a pause glitch. However, pause is one of those things video games are supposed to have. If iAds is being held up because of it, that's even more of a reason for GameSalad to support it.
It's the last day in June and still no update. Apple should be launching live iAds tomorrow. Meanwhile, my games are grounded. I now have two games in the queue. They're specifically designed for iAds... and they're stuck in limbo until Gendai Games puts iAds support in GameSalad. I'm frustrated because these are good games, optimized for GameSalad and the iPhone. They load fast, they look good, they're fun to play. I think they'll make money.
FRUSTRATION!
It's not a total loss. One of the games is an excellent example for the GameSalad Textbook. I'm working hard to make future readers happy. I think it's going to be a really good book.
Photics its not as easy as you imagined? What could be easier? For professionals like the gamesalad team its like sitting on there butt. (which we all know they must be good at) Just kidding GS! (kinda )
DanielA said: Photics its not as easy as you imagined? What could be easier?
If you're starting from a new xcode project, it's quite easy to add iAds. However, I was not. I had a hard time updating Photics: Revisions to include iAds. With the original way I was using a webview, it just kept crashing when I added iAds. I had to change some things around, like updating my app to the newer code version. If you've seen that video, then you might be disappointed with Gendai Games. Although, now that I've gone through the process myself, I can see the pitfalls.
1) As discussed here earlier... how does pause factor into this? 2) License issues - GameSalad is available to everyone, but is the iAds framework available to everyone? If not, how will GameSalad workaround that issue? 3) Not breaking old code with new code
Even with that in mind, I'm still disappointed with Gendai Games for their slow delivery of iAds support. I understand the issues, but that doesn't mean I like it. HA HA!
I was also waiting for this to be implemented before 7/1, however, I'm starting to think that this might be a PRO only option, along with Game Center and leaderboards (if and when it gets implemented).
This is where I think Gendai will start making more money and getting all of us to justify upgrading to PRO.
rdcube said: I was also waiting for this to be implemented before 7/1, however, I'm starting to think that this might be a PRO only option, along with Game Center and leaderboards (if and when it gets implemented).
This is where I think Gendai will start making more money and getting all of us to justify upgrading to PRO.
I dont know about you guys, but at least for me I'll need iAds and url forwarding to even start making decent money... If they make those pro only, there really stabbing themselves in the foot, because if I was using this to make decent money I'd upgrade to pro, but I cant with out some more tools....
rdcube said: I was also waiting for this to be implemented before 7/1, however, I'm starting to think that this might be a PRO only option, along with Game Center and leaderboards (if and when it gets implemented).
I think it would be a bad idea to reserve iAds for pro only. If that happens, how are developers supposed to pay for the pro license fee? Besides tshirtbooth and firemaplegames, how many huge success stories are there?
iAds and hyperlinks are not pro features... ...export to xcode ...standalone web files, like .swf ...custom behaviors I think that's pro.
Unless pro is a deterrent, designed to make developers marketeers for Gendai Games, I'm not sure what purpose it serves. It seems that 20 people are more likely to pay $250 for a pro version of GameSalad rather than 1 person paying for pro.
I vote one version for everything.... There doesn't need to be pro and regular... Just wastes time resources and money and complicates things... Agreeing with Photics... drop Pro to $250 and remove regular... Everybody would upgrade anyway because they would all want url and custom load screens... Generate tons and tons of $$$$$$$ (Not to mention, if they had that cash they might be able to actually the update the damn program!)
Real fast all i can say is that if they make it pro only im going to lose all respect for Gendai. I would upgrade to pro if i have the money just to support Gendai... Please if anyone is reading this dont make it pro only because u are "stabbing yourself in the foot"...
It's waiting for review. Basically, the app was a preview before. I figured that if I gave away part of the book for free on iTunes, it would lead to sales of the full version on iTunes. Heh... nope... not really. So, I changed the way the app works. Now it's the full book, but with iAds. This is also a test to see if iAds are good for apps.
Photics said: I think it would be a bad idea to reserve iAds for pro only. If that happens, how are developers supposed to pay for the pro license fee? Besides tshirtbooth and firemaplegames, how many huge success stories are there?
There are reasons for a lack of huge success by other people.
Sure, lots of us make some nice little games, but big money earners? For everyone? I don't think so.
As iAds weren't around when T-shirt and FMG were successful, I don't think you can extrapolate that their success was down to that!
I'm not on anyone's side with this. Don't really care about iAds, may dabble *maybe* at some point just to see what the fuss is, but it won't magically help you make better, or more successful games.
butterbean said: If I've said it once, I'll say it a thousand times. Choose which games will utilize iAds "wisely" and those that won't have iAds enabled.
It's not about dumping iAds into every app, and becoming successful, It's about knowing which ones will do well with iAds, versus not.
Ads are an unfortunate part of society, but if one things stands true, they've always made money!
I don't understand why posting a link that is "generalizing" the decline of revenue in ads has anything to do with iAds. Especially since a lot of those links are outdated back to 2008.
I understand you were doing it to prove my point above where I stated "Ads have always made money"
Let me correct that statement. There is a shift happening with advertising, and while people are now able to record TV, and bypass viewing ads, the trend is shifting to areas like internet, Video games, and Apps.
Now I'm not saying, plug iAds into an app, get rich and call it a day.
I'm saying, create an application or game that you feel could hit the top 100 paid, generate thousands of downloads, and therefore more possibilities in ad clicks.
Of course you will never know for sure, as with paid apps, you will never know for certain which ones will do well, but if you pay attention to the market right now in the app store, and which apps are trending in popularity, how about making an app similar to that, yet make it free, and include iAds.
My guess is age groups 10-22 could care less about ads, and would much rather have a free game, as they probably don't have disposable income to pay for apps and games.
Now if you look at the top 100 Free Apps, it looks as though a majority of them would be of interest to that age group. Not all, but a majority.
The more sophisticated client has disposable income to pay for apps, and doesn't want the hassle of an ad banner at the top, will probably choose to "pay" for their app, rather than suffer through ads, and getting a freebie.
I'm not saying any of this is 100%, I'm just saying there is always strategy involved when placing ads into games.
giacomopoppi said: Guys are gendai listening to us? i havnt seen a single post by an admin yet... also, when was the last update? it's getting worse and worse...
In my time on these boards and working with GS, I've noticed that their breadcrumb trail of insignificant details tends to taper as we get closer to a significant release.
@barkbark00 what trails? all i see is an undetermined promise (The big picture) that, as far as i know, could never come true... GS, make our praises come true!
giacomopoppi said: also, when was the last update? it's getting worse and worse...
The last update was 23 days ago... Does that really seem like a long time ago? Trust me, in software development, it goes by real fast. And making software is not like working in a factory. Problems constantly arise. You can spend days on a problem, only to have to start over when it doesn't work. Something seemingly easy to do could end up taking weeks or months.
Anyway.
I actually think iAds will be good for indie developers.
Game development is one of the most difficult fields of software development. To be successful, many disciplines need to come together perfectly: game design, art, animation, programming, audio, and marketing.
Some of those are more subjective than others, but successful games tend to hit the mark in all those categories.
Marketing to me is made up of two parts: "Getting the word out", and convincing people to pay money for your game.
These two things are usually the most difficult for indie developers, as they generally require a fair amount of money.
iAds will eliminate the "convincing people to pay money" part of the marketing problem. You still have to get the word out.
I am all for things that help remove the barrier to entry for creative people to make software.
Firstly, thanks for the detailed response! Appreciate it!
butterbean said: Now I'm not saying, plug iAds into an app, get rich and call it a day.
I'm saying, create an application or game that you feel could hit the top 100 paid, generate thousands of downloads, and therefore more possibilities in ad clicks.
Did you mean top 100 free here?
The rest of your argument seems to be almost akin to the piracy one. In that you're targeting people (kids) who have no disposable income so would never buy your game anyway (much like pirates would probably never buy your game anyway so it's not a lost sale etc).
But also, it seems you're targeting those with disposable income who don't want ads in their games. That would be me! But honestly, from what I've seen, iAds is hardly intrusive. Are people really going to pay up to remove a small banner from your game???
Look, this is all academic anyway. GS has said it will be bringing iAd functionality soon. So you'll get what you want! You just have to be a little patient.
I think I'd prefer it if you could 'tag' your game with categories so that suitable ads would be shown.
For example, if I tagged my game sci-fi, it'd show ads for the new Tron movie, or for the iphone 4(!) as opposed to Toy Story 3 or ice cream or insurance...
I think what I'm trying to do, mate, is temper your expectations a little. I hate to see people hope so much, and gain very little (you can see it all over these forums - breaks my sheepy heart!).
@FMG If $.99 is a barrier to buying, then we're all doomed, surely???
Firstly, thanks for the detailed response! Appreciate it!
Did you mean top 100 free here?
The rest of your argument seems to be almost akin to the piracy one. In that you're targeting people (kids) who have no disposable income so would never buy your game anyway (much like pirates would probably never buy your game anyway so it's not a lost sale etc).
But also, it seems you're targeting those with disposable income who don't want ads in their games. That would be me! But honestly, from what I've seen, iAds is hardly intrusive. Are people really going to pay up to remove a small banner from your game???
Look, this is all academic anyway. GS has said it will be bringing iAd functionality soon. So you'll get what you want! You just have to be a little patient.
I think I'd prefer it if you could 'tag' your game with categories so that suitable ads would be shown.
For example, if I tagged my game sci-fi, it'd show ads for the new Tron movie, or for the iphone 4(!) as opposed to Toy Story 3 or ice cream or insurance...
I think what I'm trying to do, mate, is temper your expectations a little. I hate to see people hope so much, and gain very little (you can see it all over these forums - breaks my sheepy heart!).
@FMG If $.99 is a barrier to buying, then we're all doomed, surely???
Cheers,
QS
As far as Top 100 goes, yes I was speaking of the top 100 Free Applications under Games.
As far as my argument being akin to piracy, I don't agree with that 100%.
I'm also thinking of what game would be more likely to hit the top 100 free apps regardless of the age range I spoke of. If it just so happens that the app I was thinking of making free does hit the top 100 free apps, then it would generate more income with iAd placement.
It's just strategic thinking is all.
I for one don't agree with some companies that gouge people with in app purchases which could add up quite significantly, and it's so easy to click on these not realizing how much the end total amount will be. Those are great money makers as well.
All this new downloadable content for games is the new trend, and I don't agree with it, but apparently it's making developers and companies a lot of money!
I'm going off on a tangent, but I do appreciate your feedback, and I don't have high expectations for iAds. I just think it will generate a bit more income that I would otherwise not have.
It's not the Golden Egg by any means, but I think it's great for indy devs like FMGames said, and gives them more opportunity to "potentially" make money.
How sad is it when you're worked so hard on a game, and you see maybe less than 20 downloads the first day, and slowly it withers away to 1-2 downloads a day.
I think iAds gives indy devs that 2nd chance to get their game out there without the pressure of trying to make it in the top 100 of any category.
It's waiting for review. Basically, the app was a preview before. I figured that if I gave away part of the book for free on iTunes, it would lead to sales of the full version on iTunes. Heh... nope... not really. So, I changed the way the app works. Now it's the full book, but with iAds. This is also a test to see if iAds are good for apps.
I downloaded your lite version...
The last two sentences at the bottom of the first page read:
"You can give yourself all the time you need. Unlike the real world, this book has a pause option."
Unfortunately, .99 does seem to stop some people. Tough times and all that.
But if you only had 20 downloads on day one, and then it dwindles to 1 or 2, iAds isn't going to save you. That generally means that people arent that excited about your game for some reason. And the people that did download it didnt tell anybody else. Its certainly tough to generate a buzz, but iAds isnt going to be some magic bullet.
I assume when iAds doesnt do the trick, people will start complaining about the next thing Gendai isnt doing right...
Comments
Also @Photics Lets just forget about it you are taking it a little to harsh. Laughing is vary healthy. That joke shouldn't be taken offensively.
I think we should end this "fight" (argument) and go back to what the point in this thread which is iAds.
I was playing with iAds in xcode today. It's a little more tricky than I imagined, but I got it to work in the simulator. So instead of thinking what I should eat for lunch, I'm wondering what project I should work on. Do I throw together a quick iAds app with xcode or do I wait for Gendai Games to put iAds in GameSalad? I don't know, but now now I have two GameSalad apps in the queue, that are waiting for iAds.
*wakes up*
DAMN IT!!!!
Without pause, there wouldn't be the Blaster Master grenade trick!
Anyway, my game project is almost done. For now, I decided not to launch it without iAds. I'm going to work on the GameSalad Textbook project instead.
I'm sure GS would have very little problem implementing a PAUSE option in an 8-BIT NES...
It's the last day in June and still no update. Apple should be launching live iAds tomorrow. Meanwhile, my games are grounded. I now have two games in the queue. They're specifically designed for iAds... and they're stuck in limbo until Gendai Games puts iAds support in GameSalad. I'm frustrated because these are good games, optimized for GameSalad and the iPhone. They load fast, they look good, they're fun to play. I think they'll make money.
FRUSTRATION!
It's not a total loss. One of the games is an excellent example for the GameSalad Textbook. I'm working hard to make future readers happy. I think it's going to be a really good book.
1) As discussed here earlier... how does pause factor into this?
2) License issues - GameSalad is available to everyone, but is the iAds framework available to everyone? If not, how will GameSalad workaround that issue?
3) Not breaking old code with new code
Even with that in mind, I'm still disappointed with Gendai Games for their slow delivery of iAds support. I understand the issues, but that doesn't mean I like it. HA HA!
This is where I think Gendai will start making more money and getting all of us to justify upgrading to PRO.
iAds and hyperlinks are not pro features...
...export to xcode
...standalone web files, like .swf
...custom behaviors
I think that's pro.
Unless pro is a deterrent, designed to make developers marketeers for Gendai Games, I'm not sure what purpose it serves. It seems that 20 people are more likely to pay $250 for a pro version of GameSalad rather than 1 person paying for pro.
http://itunes.apple.com/app/photics-revisions-lite/id332511745
It's waiting for review. Basically, the app was a preview before. I figured that if I gave away part of the book for free on iTunes, it would lead to sales of the full version on iTunes. Heh... nope... not really. So, I changed the way the app works. Now it's the full book, but with iAds. This is also a test to see if iAds are good for apps.
i havnt seen a single post by an admin yet...
also, when was the last update?
Sure, lots of us make some nice little games, but big money earners? For everyone? I don't think so.
As iAds weren't around when T-shirt and FMG were successful, I don't think you can extrapolate that their success was down to that!
I'm not on anyone's side with this. Don't really care about iAds, may dabble *maybe* at some point just to see what the fuss is, but it won't magically help you make better, or more successful games.
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
It's not about dumping iAds into every app, and becoming successful, It's about knowing which ones will do well with iAds, versus not.
Ads are an unfortunate part of society, but if one things stands true, they've always made money!
I don't understand what would make a game 'appropriate' or more likely to be successful with iAds, BB.
In-app purchases I could understand. You could offer additional content for a little more money. That I get.
What would make your apps suited to iAds? What am I failing to see here???
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I understand you were doing it to prove my point above where I stated "Ads have always made money"
http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/13/u-s-online-ad-revenues-hit-nearly-6-billion-in-the-first-quarter/
Let me correct that statement. There is a shift happening with advertising, and while people are now able to record TV, and bypass viewing ads, the trend is shifting to areas like internet, Video games, and Apps.
Now I'm not saying, plug iAds into an app, get rich and call it a day.
I'm saying, create an application or game that you feel could hit the top 100 paid, generate thousands of downloads, and therefore more possibilities in ad clicks.
Of course you will never know for sure, as with paid apps, you will never know for certain which ones will do well, but if you pay attention to the market right now in the app store, and which apps are trending in popularity, how about making an app similar to that, yet make it free, and include iAds.
My guess is age groups 10-22 could care less about ads, and would much rather have a free game, as they probably don't have disposable income to pay for apps and games.
Now if you look at the top 100 Free Apps, it looks as though a majority of them would be of interest to that age group. Not all, but a majority.
The more sophisticated client has disposable income to pay for apps, and doesn't want the hassle of an ad banner at the top, will probably choose to "pay" for their app, rather than suffer through ads, and getting a freebie.
I'm not saying any of this is 100%, I'm just saying there is always strategy involved when placing ads into games.
GS, make our praises come true!
Anyway.
I actually think iAds will be good for indie developers.
Game development is one of the most difficult fields of software development. To be successful, many disciplines need to come together perfectly: game design, art, animation, programming, audio, and marketing.
Some of those are more subjective than others, but successful games tend to hit the mark in all those categories.
Marketing to me is made up of two parts: "Getting the word out", and convincing people to pay money for your game.
These two things are usually the most difficult for indie developers, as they generally require a fair amount of money.
iAds will eliminate the "convincing people to pay money" part of the marketing problem. You still have to get the word out.
I am all for things that help remove the barrier to entry for creative people to make software.
Firstly, thanks for the detailed response! Appreciate it! Did you mean top 100 free here?
The rest of your argument seems to be almost akin to the piracy one. In that you're targeting people (kids) who have no disposable income so would never buy your game anyway (much like pirates would probably never buy your game anyway so it's not a lost sale etc).
But also, it seems you're targeting those with disposable income who don't want ads in their games. That would be me! But honestly, from what I've seen, iAds is hardly intrusive. Are people really going to pay up to remove a small banner from your game???
Look, this is all academic anyway. GS has said it will be bringing iAd functionality soon. So you'll get what you want! You just have to be a little patient.
I think I'd prefer it if you could 'tag' your game with categories so that suitable ads would be shown.
For example, if I tagged my game sci-fi, it'd show ads for the new Tron movie, or for the iphone 4(!) as opposed to Toy Story 3 or ice cream or insurance...
I think what I'm trying to do, mate, is temper your expectations a little. I hate to see people hope so much, and gain very little (you can see it all over these forums - breaks my sheepy heart!).
@FMG
If $.99 is a barrier to buying, then we're all doomed, surely???
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
As far as my argument being akin to piracy, I don't agree with that 100%.
I'm also thinking of what game would be more likely to hit the top 100 free apps regardless of the age range I spoke of. If it just so happens that the app I was thinking of making free does hit the top 100 free apps, then it would generate more income with iAd placement.
It's just strategic thinking is all.
I for one don't agree with some companies that gouge people with in app purchases which could add up quite significantly, and it's so easy to click on these not realizing how much the end total amount will be. Those are great money makers as well.
All this new downloadable content for games is the new trend, and I don't agree with it, but apparently it's making developers and companies a lot of money!
I'm going off on a tangent, but I do appreciate your feedback, and I don't have high expectations for iAds. I just think it will generate a bit more income that I would otherwise not have.
It's not the Golden Egg by any means, but I think it's great for indy devs like FMGames said, and gives them more opportunity to "potentially" make money.
How sad is it when you're worked so hard on a game, and you see maybe less than 20 downloads the first day, and slowly it withers away to 1-2 downloads a day.
I think iAds gives indy devs that 2nd chance to get their game out there without the pressure of trying to make it in the top 100 of any category.
The last two sentences at the bottom of the first page read:
"You can give yourself all the time you need. Unlike the real world, this book has a pause option."
I had to laugh!
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
But if you only had 20 downloads on day one, and then it dwindles to 1 or 2, iAds isn't going to save you. That generally means that people arent that excited about your game for some reason. And the people that did download it didnt tell anybody else. Its certainly tough to generate a buzz, but iAds isnt going to be some magic bullet.
I assume when iAds doesnt do the trick, people will start complaining about the next thing Gendai isnt doing right...