Chunkypixels said: the recent events have seriously dented my trust in Gendai/GameSalad
Trust is a problem. I don't like how this situation is handled. Money is also mentioned by andrekadow... Corona and Unity are alternatives... both under $500.
I like GameSalad and the Gendai Games, so it's blocking my business sense. Logically, I shouldn't even be wasting my time trying to convince Gendai Games to do the right thing. I should be busy learning how to work Corona or Unity.
Yet, there's still room for a happy ending. I think if Gendai Games apologize for the situation, and take steps to correct the problems, it can be forgiven. I understand their situation... $99 a year is not going to keep the lights on.
I don't know all the details, but this is what think is a reasonable compromise...
• Bring back Pro, but at $499-$750 per year. That makes GameSalad competitive with Unity and Corona. • Market and Make GameSalad Direct for PC users that don't have Macs. • Raise the price of express to $250. • Offer incentives for developers to choose GameSalad as a publisher
So, what would be a good incentive for Developers to use GameSalad Direct®, while protecting the GameSalad brand? GameSalad shouldn't be known as the publisher of shovelware. So, GameSalad Direct® developers should have access to assets — sound, music, graphics. That would help boost the quality of the games. Also, the games should pass a checklist. GameSalad can't just publish junk, or that will scare away the good developers.
I personally don't think I could take all the critical comments from members about my program and just sit back and do nothing. The minimum communications from GS is what bothers me the most, its not the buggy code, it works, and I am willing to fight with it, its not the features that are not there, or the stability that is not there or the updates and bug fixes that are not there, its not talking. Some one once told me, LOVE ME OR HATE ME just dont IGNORE ME. Some people think there is some process of silence and all that when an investor comes in, that is total crap. Investors invest for one reason, to make more money on the return of the money they invest. A smart investor can asses the problems of the company, growing pains, lack of people, new computers, whatever and make changes. If I were an investor and I was reading this forum I would be real nervous, and very antzy to get things moving in a positive direction. So here I wrote this for GS
Dear Members.
Game Salad.
No wait that is what we are getting right now.
Oh well back to learning how to write code one line at a time, it aint so bad.
At least when they weren't censoring discussion we were on their forums waiting to hear something. I almost don't care what they have to say or I'll be having good discussions over at http://www.ijustwannamakesomegames.com/forum/ and will miss their announcement saying they don't care what we think. That'll be sad.
THAT'S IT I'm not posting anymore until a clear fix has been made to their model. I will finish out my membership and in the meanwhile try my hand at Corona
If the company is in as bad a financial state as were being led to believe, and need an influx of cash like some of the Sous-chefs have been saying, then the company must be heamoraghing cash at a crazy rate for such a small team, if theyre already in dire straits so soon after announcing their influx of investor money.
Chunkypixels said: im just a little confused too.....
If the company is in as bad a financial state as were being led to believe, and need an influx of cash like some of the Sous-chefs have been saying, then the company must be heamoraghing cash at a crazy rate for such a small team, if theyre already in dire straits so soon after announcing their influx of investor money.
It doesnt quite add up....
A million bucks can only buy so many cars and babes.
chosenonestudios said: Edit: It says I posted 3 secs ahead of Photics, but he's in front of me. Damn forums.
It's hard to know if I really did get the 1000th post... as it seems that a very good post was deleted. Although, the deletion does make sense. I wouldn't be so tolerant of discussion about competitors on my website. Although, I probably would have closed this thread roughly 800 posts before. My message would have been something like this... "We have received your feedback about GameSalad Direct®. We are reviewing it now and we working to resolve your concerns."
Photics said: It's hard to know if I really did get the 1000th post... as it seems that a very good post was deleted. Although, I understand that too. I wouldn't be so tolerant of discussion about competitors. Although, I probably would have closed this thread roughly 800 posts before. My message would have been something like this... "We have received your feedback about GameSalad Direct®. We are reviewing it now and we working to resolve your concerns."
brilliant Photics...you just gave them a cowardly response to give us..... wouldnt surprise me now if thats what they go and do!
Every creative person I know is bad with cash, in the real world they are wired to be creative, programmers, artists, dancers, ( I am an excellent dancer) and I think that all the folks at GS are all creative people, but point blank suck at business. Steve Jobs, remember him, he sucked at business in the early days, he burned money like it was kindling for a bigger fire. The reality is if the people at GS dont get some business people in the mix, they will not be able to grow, they will not be able to finish. By not having a voice, in this forum, then they are just hiding or looking down their noses at the members. Members pay your bills, you should take care of them, stoke them a bit, make them feel good. That is the door they have opened up, by treating the members, the money like little children crying for more cake. GS is a great idea, and in practice probably better than UNITY or CORONA or TORQUE, but there is no biz guy pushing this effort, its the creative people who get offended by all this and probably say, hey dont they realize how good of a deal this is. NOPE we dont. It is not about money or who publishes what, its about COMMUNICATION, we members are doing a good job, bitching, complaining, wondering, hoping and being involved, we are doing our job, and we are even making games, and some of them are good, and.,.....GS is only doing part of the job. Oh shut up, this is therapy and I am cured. Sorry.
Here's my question that I can't seem to conjure up an answer for.
Now think about it..
Do they CARE if we leave?
The new system will have so many people coming in and dropping apps through their doors that they'll make a decent amount of money simply by having so many $1 sales a day. If they have 1,000 apps in the app store and half of them sell one a day, that's $500 bucks, if they take 25% that's $125 bucks a day. I know it's not a lot, but they'll have a lot more than 1,000 apps, and a lot more will sell one a day than half.
When there was the big post about apple not letting games build in 3rd parts tools into the app store. the thread only got to about half the size. Even though everyone thought gamesalad was done!
Now this thread is twice the size,
everyone is more afraid of this then almost not being able to make games AT ALL!
now im not saying thats bad. im just making an observation.
MattVollet said: Here's my question that I can't seem to conjure up an answer for.
Now think about it..
Do they CARE if we leave?
The new system will have so many people coming in and dropping apps through their doors that they'll make a decent amount of money simply by having so many $1 sales a day. If they have 1,000 apps in the app store and half of them sell one a day, that's $500 bucks, if they take 25% that's $125 bucks a day. I know it's not a lot, but they'll have a lot more than 1,000 apps, and a lot more will sell one a day than half.
They don't need us.
Thats the worst part. They already got our money, they don't. Not to mention that they wont be able to sustain themselves off of others sales. Just one big massive behemoth leach.
When there was the big post about apple not letting games build in 3rd parts tools into the app store. the thread only got to about half the size. Even though everyone thought gamesalad was done!
Now this thread is twice the size,
everyone is more afraid of this then almost not being able to make games AT ALL!
now im not saying thats bad. im just making an observation.
That might be something to do with the community feeling a lot closer to Gendai than they do to Apple. Getting an unexpected kick in the face from your best mate hurts a hell of a lot more, and leaves longer resentment than from a stranger.
When there was the big post about apple not letting games build in 3rd parts tools into the app store. the thread only got to about half the size. Even though everyone thought gamesalad was done!
Nobody here expected that Apple was reading the forums... or could/would do anything about the situation.
We are GS customers. We deserve to know what's going on.
It's a move to get new customers. and rightly so, they need those new customers to survive as a business, we should all be able to understand that.
Getting those new customers might have to come at the expense of losing some old customers though. They are not obliged to do anything to keep us on as current customers. It would be nice if they did, but I wouldn't be holding my breath that they will do anything to keep us.
Which for us old customers...sucks.
Also, until we know any of the numbers, and any of the timescales, it's pretty pointless us all guessing. Some people saying 30% some saying 10% I personally guessed at 40% (an educated guess judging from similar entertainment industries)
Us is to possessive, who is us, members, they will need games, that is true, they will need a heck of a lot more income than a few bucks a day. Why do you think there will be a big influx of members making games, the BIG winners are not coming over to GS, why would they, they have a machine, it works, GS offers no fixes to some horrible problem.
They need from developers some amazing apps, games, whatever, and they need to spend money promoting those apps, or at least some of the best of them, then they need to do some more promotion and so on and so on.
Consider the state of GS, the code, it is NOT going to attract a big group of folks unless they indeed enhance, and improve the entire code set.
I think that is what we are all hoping for. Great tools, sturdy, robust code, all the goodies, etc etc, its apparently been said over 1000 times. Otherwise, they have no one else running to their door.
Corona update, now have a button firing and actor hitting other actors and running up a score, total time to learn now 4 hours. Boy if I could wrap Corona inside of the GS drag and drop I could do much better faster. And if I could leap tall buildings in a single bound, I would be Super Game Maker...
I don't know. I think that they do care. Otherwise, they'd simply shut down this post and any related...
...
...
...
Interesting... moderators were added just before this announcement. Is that a coincidence? I think so, as there was a bad spam problem. But if it wasn't... if they knew this would happen... and they did it anyway... then it suggests that they don't care.
I think they do care. Reputation is important. Otherwise, GameSalad games could be largely ignored. They don't want to be known as the publishers of shovelware, which is what will happen if all the good developers are scared away.
Comments
I like GameSalad and the Gendai Games, so it's blocking my business sense. Logically, I shouldn't even be wasting my time trying to convince Gendai Games to do the right thing. I should be busy learning how to work Corona or Unity.
Yet, there's still room for a happy ending. I think if Gendai Games apologize for the situation, and take steps to correct the problems, it can be forgiven. I understand their situation... $99 a year is not going to keep the lights on.
I don't know all the details, but this is what think is a reasonable compromise...
• Bring back Pro, but at $499-$750 per year. That makes GameSalad competitive with Unity and Corona.
• Market and Make GameSalad Direct for PC users that don't have Macs.
• Raise the price of express to $250.
• Offer incentives for developers to choose GameSalad as a publisher
So, what would be a good incentive for Developers to use GameSalad Direct®, while protecting the GameSalad brand? GameSalad shouldn't be known as the publisher of shovelware. So, GameSalad Direct® developers should have access to assets — sound, music, graphics. That would help boost the quality of the games. Also, the games should pass a checklist. GameSalad can't just publish junk, or that will scare away the good developers.
Some people think there is some process of silence and all that when an investor comes in, that is total crap. Investors invest for one reason, to make more money on the return of the money they invest. A smart investor can asses the problems of the company, growing pains, lack of people, new computers, whatever and make changes.
If I were an investor and I was reading this forum I would be real nervous, and very antzy to get things moving in a positive direction. So here I wrote this for GS
Dear Members.
Game Salad.
No wait that is what we are getting right now.
Oh well back to learning how to write code one line at a time, it aint so bad.
Edit: It says I posted 3 secs ahead of Photics, but he's in front of me. Damn forums.
I'm not posting anymore until a clear fix has been made to their model. I will finish out my membership and in the meanwhile try my hand at Corona
If the company is in as bad a financial state as were being led to believe, and need an influx of cash like some of the Sous-chefs have been saying, then the company must be heamoraghing cash at a crazy rate for such a small team, if theyre already in dire straits so soon after announcing their influx of investor money.
It doesnt quite add up....
I also think they knew people were going to react, but perhaps not as "strongly" as it did.
I have a glimmer of hope that they will offer PRO or give us options, but we will never know... the anticipation is the worst!
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GS is a great idea, and in practice probably better than UNITY or CORONA or TORQUE, but there is no biz guy pushing this effort, its the creative people who get offended by all this and probably say, hey dont they realize how good of a deal this is.
NOPE we dont.
It is not about money or who publishes what, its about COMMUNICATION, we members are doing a good job, bitching, complaining, wondering, hoping and being involved, we are doing our job, and we are even making games, and some of them are good, and.,.....GS is only doing part of the job.
Oh shut up, this is therapy and I am cured. Sorry.
Now think about it..
Do they CARE if we leave?
The new system will have so many people coming in and dropping apps through their doors that they'll make a decent amount of money simply by having so many $1 sales a day. If they have 1,000 apps in the app store and half of them sell one a day, that's $500 bucks, if they take 25% that's $125 bucks a day. I know it's not a lot, but they'll have a lot more than 1,000 apps, and a lot more will sell one a day than half.
They don't need us.
The community feels betrayed.
We are GS customers. We deserve to know what's going on.
Either way that was being AFRAID, not MAD... Clearly one drums up more emotion.
It's a move to get new customers. and rightly so, they need those new customers to survive as a business, we should all be able to understand that.
Getting those new customers might have to come at the expense of losing some old customers though.
They are not obliged to do anything to keep us on as current customers. It would be nice if they did, but I wouldn't be holding my breath that they will do anything to keep us.
Which for us old customers...sucks.
Also, until we know any of the numbers, and any of the timescales, it's pretty pointless us all guessing.
Some people saying 30% some saying 10% I personally guessed at 40% (an educated guess judging from similar entertainment industries)
Us is to possessive, who is us, members, they will need games, that is true, they will need a heck of a lot more income than a few bucks a day.
Why do you think there will be a big influx of members making games, the BIG winners are not coming over to GS, why would they, they have a machine, it works, GS offers no fixes to some horrible problem.
They need from developers some amazing apps, games, whatever, and they need to spend money promoting those apps, or at least some of the best of them, then they need to do some more promotion and so on and so on.
Consider the state of GS, the code, it is NOT going to attract a big group of folks unless they indeed enhance, and improve the entire code set.
I think that is what we are all hoping for. Great tools, sturdy, robust code, all the goodies, etc etc, its apparently been said over 1000 times. Otherwise, they have no one else running to their door.
Corona update, now have a button firing and actor hitting other actors and running up a score, total time to learn now 4 hours. Boy if I could wrap Corona inside of the GS drag and drop I could do much better faster. And if I could leap tall buildings in a single bound, I would be Super Game Maker...
...
...
...
Interesting... moderators were added just before this announcement. Is that a coincidence? I think so, as there was a bad spam problem. But if it wasn't... if they knew this would happen... and they did it anyway... then it suggests that they don't care.
I think they do care. Reputation is important. Otherwise, GameSalad games could be largely ignored. They don't want to be known as the publishers of shovelware, which is what will happen if all the good developers are scared away.
YOU NEVER EVER WANT TO LOOSE A CUSTOMER< NEVER RULE NUMBER !, NEVER, they loose this data base of users they are in deep doodie. They must know that.