Hey everyone! This looks like the most interesting post of the day I'm not here to give my opinion, but just to give an advice to all of you: Dont expect IAP to suddenly change your game into a great game! The majority of the applications using IAP would have the exact same success without it. iAP is a small extra to apply to your game, dont think people go around searching for apps specificly with IAPs!
Ahah, having said this... Please do continue your debate, it is very entertaining!
What kind of help are you oferring here? Other people have agree here that this guy was not asking about inapp to create better games. Are you speed reading again??? Are you just reading the first and last sentence of a paragraph? That method doesnt work... It makes you look stuped, super dumb. Althought that might not be the only thing, right?
Something that has hardly been touched on is IAP's ability to prevent jailbreakers from stealing it. As far as I know, a free app with an IAP for the full version isn't easily pirated.
while you can crack an iPhone application and throw it up for all to download in a matter of seconds, you can’t fake an In-App purchase receipt. A pretty notable chunk of the In-App purchase process is actually handled on the developer’s server, in addition to Apple’s – so unlike the initial purchase (which devs actually get to know very, very little about), developers know pretty damn well exactly which iPhones should be running which In-App Purchase. Developers have a specific receipt for each in-app purchase, which resides on their server. Faking this would be like tricking Amazon into shipping you a TV that you didn’t pay for.
AddictiveGames said: Its no wonder hardly anyone using GameSalad has made much money.
I don't think lack of IAP is the problem...
I think there is a difference between wanting IAP and demanding it with such vigor over things like GS Achievements etc etc. Of course we want IAP, but I dunno that everyone banks on it the way you're doing.
So IAP is the new saviour now? The new iAds?....remember how this was going to make us all so rich? No feature will save a crappy app.
So rather than demanding new stuff from the already hardworking GS team, spending you time reading books on game design, learn to draw/make pixelart, make small code experiment with GS, or play a game (for inspiration of course :P)
dhondon said: So IAP is the new saviour now? The new iAds?....remember how this was going to make us all so rich? No feature will save a crappy app.
but THE QUESTION WAS NOT WILL IAP IMPROVE GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...it was we need it asap? ...Its awesome for a developer? (YES in my opinion.)
If data showing 9/10 of today's top grossing games all have IAP, it show players are happy to buy. I would say its easier for people to try your games for free and risk $0.99 buying a certain feature. The average free game will get at least 100+ times more downloads than a paid one for say $0.99. You only need to convert 2% of players to buy IAP and you've already made more money. IAP is a sustainable feature as the itunes charts show.
I also think that certain games need IAP. Imagine either how expensive a Farmville App would be if Zynga unlocked everything - or how boring it would if you could easily unlock everything for free?
Think about it, how much do you pay for graphics, music, etc for your game? Now think more, in-app purchases can save you time, money, and effort! In some cases just a few attributes and maybe 2-3 images need to be changed and you've spent less than $50 in time and graphics that could make you hundreds-thousands in the long time. Its just something different and any of you saying "we don't need this feature," why are you putting it down? Anything that advances GS whether you use it or not could bring press to the software and more individually to your game! Think before you throw something in the trash that you "may not" use.
I'm excited for it, it should be fun to try some different game structure models.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Anyone demanding IAP's like the author of this thread is only out for a fast buck. Its a monetization option they don't have now so they believe that is why they are not getting rich. Once we have IAP's it will then be something else that is holding them back. You guys defending this argument "WE NEED IT NOW" are not understanding the other side of the coin.
Of course we want to have all of the features and options available to iOS. I will most certainly give an IAP game a try once its here. BUT you are defending the same type of people who have destroyed the name GameSalad with all reviewers around the world. If you are in it, solely to make as much money as fas as possible and your games are not on the level of AngryBirds, Tiny Wings Etc.. then your in it for the wrong reason, and you need to buzz off. If any one of you so hell bent on this being the NEED of your game has ever made something that had any business Flirting with the top 10 games then please step up and show me how you would have benefited more from IAP. the reason those top 10 games have stayed at the top is not just because of IAP purchases its because they have Made millions without IAP and they have so much content further IAP are accepted by some users. I still wont be buying any IAP on any of them. I don't do it, I flat refuse because if an app is free then the content in the app should be free. If I paid for an app I want all of the content to be included in my purchase. And forget even downloading a FreeAppofTheDay App is I open it up and it has stats for IAP I don't even screw with it.
I am so sorry for getting into this but I am starting to believe that this is out of hand. Tenrdrmer I really admire you not only for the help that you provide to the forum but also for the amazing stuff you create and sell. I have bought templates from you that had thought me a lot. Having said that, I am starting to believe that you want to impose your believes here. I also starting to believe that you have something against the author of this thread. Let me tell you something: MagoNicolas has been very successful with the games he has created and he is demanding iap's too. For that reason in your first paragraph your generalization is just wrong. The reason that anyone has for making games, in my opinion are very personal and a decision that belongs to each one of us. If you don't like them or not even screw with the apps with iap's that is your choice but there are millions that do. Again I am not trying to fuel this up but I do have noticed that there is something going on between you and that guy and we expect more from you now. You are a sous chef now...
I understand everyone's excitement about IAP. But guys, you do know its right there on the road map. I mean I could believe a thread like this if this feature wasn't on the pipeline. But its right there making its way into the next release. As I type this I'm sure the GS coder guys are working hard on bringing us In app purchase as fast as they can.
Take a moment and analyze a bit what GameSalad has done for us. It made a beautiful VERY easy to use drag and drop programing interface. I can tell you with certainty (because I'm one of them) that people that have programming skills are using GS for its amazing interface and the way it lets you speed things up. You can easily release 3 games in the same time frame it would take you to release 1 game using xCode or .LUA.
I fully understand why we are all (yes including myself) very impatient. Because lets face it, we are in a very competitive environment and not only that, we are competing against some companies that are so huge that they have every resource at their disposal. So we probably want every single tool that its available (IAP, arrays, polygonal collisions, GC achievements, native clock, keyboard etc) to make our apps as competitive as possible.
But we have to give the guys at GS some time to translate all the coding that its involved in all this features to a simple drag and drop. After all even thou we don't have this features yet. We can still make GREAT games with what we have.
Here are the most important things from the Roadmap:
Image Flipping Scene editor improvements Layer Functions Sprites Polygon Collision Joints Tables and Arrays
These are the types of things that will make game design better/easier. I vote these to be priority over anything else. I couldn't give two bits about IAP, because I would not use it. I would much rather have 10000 people play my games for free then have 10 people playing and paying for extra carp in game. I'm on tenrdrmer's side on this.
Remember, Elder Scrolls Oblivion sold Millions of copies before Horse Armor. Because it was a good game. Paying $5 for horse armor.... not so good.
Mrshoestore said: Here are the most important things from the Roadmap:
Image Flipping Scene editor improvements Layer Functions Sprites Polygon Collision Joints Tables and Arrays
These are the types of things that will make game design better/easier. I vote these to be priority over anything else. I couldn't give two bits about IAP, because I would not use it. I would much rather have 10000 people play my games for free then have 10 people playing and paying for extra carp in game. I'm on tenrdrmer's side on this.
Remember, Elder Scrolls Oblivion sold Millions of copies before Horse Armor. Because it was a good game. Paying $5 for horse armor.... not so good.
Spot on. I'd add GameCentre achievements to that list, as well as Facebook/Twitter integration - far more valuable as marketing tools than IAP.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Mrshoestore said: Here are the most important things from the Roadmap:
Image Flipping Scene editor improvements Layer Functions Sprites Polygon Collision Joints Tables and Arrays
These are the types of things that will make game design better/easier. I vote these to be priority over anything else. I couldn't give two bits about IAP, because I would not use it. I would much rather have 10000 people play my games for free then have 10 people playing and paying for extra carp in game. I'm on tenrdrmer's side on this.
Remember, Elder Scrolls Oblivion sold Millions of copies before Horse Armor. Because it was a good game. Paying $5 for horse armor.... not so good.
Very Much Agree with you. Or wait can I agree with you agreeing with we me. Is that even possible. But what if you thought It first and I just said it first. OMG now i'm confused Lets just agree that we agree with QS since he's shaped some of the way I have looked at things in the past. and you agreeing with me and me agreeing with him means you agree with him so that should do it. Is anyone else confused yet?
Also, while I'm here. The argument of using IAP to deter piracy is kind of dumber then a bucket of stupid (no offense). Piracy exists, and will always exists. And those who are pirating your game are likely to be pirating it because they can, not so much that they really care to play the game.
Why would you think that if you had IAP, a Pirate would go "Oh man, I was going to pirate this game, but I can't! Guess I'll just go against my nature and pay money for this game."
They are just going to pirate something else, therefore having one less person interested in your game. The thing is, pirates are a source of word-of-mouth, and a decent one at that.
My plan for my next game is to actually be the one to host the torrent copy of the game, that way I can at least have an idea of how many people play the game.
Pirates are not a part of your market, and will never be.
tenrdrmer said: Anyone demanding IAP's like the author of this thread is only out for a fast buck. Its a monetization option they don't have now so they believe that is why they are not getting rich. Once we have IAP's it will then be something else that is holding them back. You guys defending this argument "WE NEED IT NOW" are not understanding the other side of the coin.
Of course we want to have all of the features and options available to iOS. I will most certainly give an IAP game a try once its here. BUT you are defending the same type of people who have destroyed the name GameSalad with all reviewers around the world. If you are in it, solely to make as much money as fas as possible and your games are not on the level of AngryBirds, Tiny Wings Etc.. then your in it for the wrong reason, and you need to buzz off. If any one of you so hell bent on this being the NEED of your game has ever made something that had any business Flirting with the top 10 games then please step up and show me how you would have benefited more from IAP. the reason those top 10 games have stayed at the top is not just because of IAP purchases its because they have Made millions without IAP and they have so much content further IAP are accepted by some users. I still wont be buying any IAP on any of them. I don't do it, I flat refuse because if an app is free then the content in the app should be free. If I paid for an app I want all of the content to be included in my purchase. And forget even downloading a FreeAppofTheDay App is I open it up and it has stats for IAP I don't even screw with it.
you said that most apps made millions w/o IAP there, but some apps there are free, so how is that possible? iads?
if GS add this feature, than I don't see any disadvantage for GS, if you like it. use it if you don't, leave it
if GS add this feature, than I don't see any disadvantage for GS, if you like it. use it if you don't, leave it
+1
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
calvin9403 said: if GS add this feature, than I don't see any disadvantage for GS, if you like it. use it if you don't, leave it
OMG you act like GameSalad is holding you back. WTF do you mean "if" Its on the roadmap they will do it but they can only write so many lines of code a day and then they have to test the holy hell out of it. They will get it. its not like they are sitting at GS HQ and just twiddling there thumbs thinking up ways they can screw you over.
Let look at it this way. If you are so in need of IAP that you cannot make your game now. Then you need to jump ship and go do it in code.
Hell or even better since apparently you are an expert coder Write the Code GameSalad needs to add it and send it to them. Im sure they would gladly accept free code that will make this feature work properly.
tenrdrmer said: OMG you act like GameSalad is holding you back. WTF do you mean "if" Its on the roadmap they will do it but they can only write so many lines of code a day and then they have to test the holy hell out of it. They will get it. its not like they are sitting at GS HQ and just twiddling there thumbs thinking up ways they can screw you over.
Let look at it this way. If you are so in need of IAP that you cannot make your game now. Then you need to jump ship and go do it in code.
Hell or even better since apparently you are an expert coder Write the Code GameSalad needs to add it and send it to them. Im sure they would gladly accept free code that will make this feature work properly.
I don't understand why you said that, it has nothing to do with my post so all it matter is that "if"? alright, so GS add this feature, I don't see ant disadvantage to GS, if you like it , use it, if you don't, leave it
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
NextGen said: some people really need to calm down... this is just a discussion.
Matt
Your right people need to cool their jets and be thankful for the things GameSalad has done. Give them the time they need to figure it out. Without them most of us would be nothing in Game Development.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
Calvin you seriously don't get it. GameSalad is not holding back on you. I said What do you mean IF because you act like they are not going to add it, ONCE THEY GET IT WORKING.
GameSalad is on your side. They want to give you all the possible features they can. But guess what. They cant do it all by tomorrow.
tenrdrmer said: Calvin you seriously don't get it. GameSalad is not holding back on you. I said What do you mean IF because you act like they are not going to add it, ONCE THEY GET IT WORKING.
GameSalad is on your side. They want to give you all the possible features they can. But guess what. They cant do it all by tomorrow.
Comments
I'm not here to give my opinion, but just to give an advice to all of you: Dont expect IAP to suddenly change your game into a great game! The majority of the applications using IAP would have the exact same success without it. iAP is a small extra to apply to your game, dont think people go around searching for apps specificly with IAPs!
Ahah, having said this... Please do continue your debate, it is very entertaining!
Giacomo
Something that has hardly been touched on is IAP's ability to prevent jailbreakers from stealing it. As far as I know, a free app with an IAP for the full version isn't easily pirated.
while you can crack an iPhone application and throw it up for all to download in a matter of seconds, you can’t fake an In-App purchase receipt. A pretty notable chunk of the In-App purchase process is actually handled on the developer’s server, in addition to Apple’s – so unlike the initial purchase (which devs actually get to know very, very little about), developers know pretty damn well exactly which iPhones should be running which In-App Purchase. Developers have a specific receipt for each in-app purchase, which resides on their server. Faking this would be like tricking Amazon into shipping you a TV that you didn’t pay for.
I think there is a difference between wanting IAP and demanding it with such vigor over things like GS Achievements etc etc. Of course we want IAP, but I dunno that everyone banks on it the way you're doing.
So rather than demanding new stuff from the already hardworking GS team, spending you time reading books on game design, learn to draw/make pixelart, make small code experiment with GS, or play a game (for inspiration of course :P)
...it was we need it asap? ...Its awesome for a developer? (YES in my opinion.)
If data showing 9/10 of today's top grossing games all have IAP, it show players are happy to buy. I would say its easier for people to try your games for free and risk $0.99 buying a certain feature. The average free game will get at least 100+ times more downloads than a paid one for say $0.99. You only need to convert 2% of players to buy IAP and you've already made more money. IAP is a sustainable feature as the itunes charts show.
I also think that certain games need IAP. Imagine either how expensive a Farmville App would be if Zynga unlocked everything - or how boring it would if you could easily unlock everything for free?
Give the GS team a rest. In my opinion we can wait.
JamieOneil
Of course we want to have all of the features and options available to iOS. I will most certainly give an IAP game a try once its here. BUT you are defending the same type of people who have destroyed the name GameSalad with all reviewers around the world. If you are in it, solely to make as much money as fas as possible and your games are not on the level of AngryBirds, Tiny Wings Etc.. then your in it for the wrong reason, and you need to buzz off. If any one of you so hell bent on this being the NEED of your game has ever made something that had any business Flirting with the top 10 games then please step up and show me how you would have benefited more from IAP. the reason those top 10 games have stayed at the top is not just because of IAP purchases its because they have Made millions without IAP and they have so much content further IAP are accepted by some users. I still wont be buying any IAP on any of them. I don't do it, I flat refuse because if an app is free then the content in the app should be free. If I paid for an app I want all of the content to be included in my purchase. And forget even downloading a FreeAppofTheDay App is I open it up and it has stats for IAP I don't even screw with it.
Tenrdrmer I really admire you not only for the help that you provide to the forum but also for the amazing stuff you create and sell. I have bought templates from you that had thought me a lot.
Having said that, I am starting to believe that you want to impose your believes here. I also starting to believe that you have something against the author of this thread.
Let me tell you something: MagoNicolas has been very successful with the games he has created and he is demanding iap's too. For that reason in your first paragraph your generalization is just wrong.
The reason that anyone has for making games, in my opinion are very personal and a decision that belongs to each one of us.
If you don't like them or not even screw with the apps with iap's that is your choice but there are millions that do.
Again I am not trying to fuel this up but I do have noticed that there is something going on between you and that guy and we expect more from you now. You are a sous chef now...
Take a moment and analyze a bit what GameSalad has done for us. It made a beautiful VERY easy to use drag and drop programing interface. I can tell you with certainty (because I'm one of them) that people that have programming skills are using GS for its amazing interface and the way it lets you speed things up. You can easily release 3 games in the same time frame it would take you to release 1 game using xCode or .LUA.
I fully understand why we are all (yes including myself) very impatient. Because lets face it, we are in a very competitive environment and not only that, we are competing against some companies that are so huge that they have every resource at their disposal. So we probably want every single tool that its available (IAP, arrays, polygonal collisions, GC achievements, native clock, keyboard etc) to make our apps as competitive as possible.
But we have to give the guys at GS some time to translate all the coding that its involved in all this features to a simple drag and drop. After all even thou we don't have this features yet. We can still make GREAT games with what we have.
Just a thought
Steve.
Image Flipping
Scene editor improvements
Layer Functions
Sprites
Polygon Collision
Joints
Tables and Arrays
These are the types of things that will make game design better/easier. I vote these to be priority over anything else. I couldn't give two bits about IAP, because I would not use it. I would much rather have 10000 people play my games for free then have 10 people playing and paying for extra carp in game. I'm on tenrdrmer's side on this.
Remember, Elder Scrolls Oblivion sold Millions of copies before Horse Armor. Because it was a good game. Paying $5 for horse armor.... not so good.
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Why would you think that if you had IAP, a Pirate would go "Oh man, I was going to pirate this game, but I can't! Guess I'll just go against my nature and pay money for this game."
They are just going to pirate something else, therefore having one less person interested in your game. The thing is, pirates are a source of word-of-mouth, and a decent one at that.
My plan for my next game is to actually be the one to host the torrent copy of the game, that way I can at least have an idea of how many people play the game.
Pirates are not a part of your market, and will never be.
if GS add this feature, than I don't see any disadvantage for GS, if you like it. use it
if you don't, leave it
________________________
http://www.thatgameforum.com/
http://gshelper.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/GameSaladCookbook#p/
http://gamesalad.com/wiki/
Let look at it this way. If you are so in need of IAP that you cannot make your game now. Then you need to jump ship and go do it in code.
Hell or even better since apparently you are an expert coder Write the Code GameSalad needs to add it and send it to them. Im sure they would gladly accept free code that will make this feature work properly.
Matt
so all it matter is that "if"?
alright, so GS add this feature, I don't see ant disadvantage to GS, if you like it , use it, if you don't, leave it
___________________________________
http://www.thatgameforum.com/
http://gshelper.com/
http://www.youtube.com/user/GameSaladCookbook#p/
http://gamesalad.com/wiki/
Give them the time they need to figure it out.
Without them most of us would be nothing in Game Development.
GameSalad is on your side. They want to give you all the possible features they can. But guess what. They cant do it all by tomorrow.
and I know they can't do it my tomorrow
I'd like to see a whole slew of new features before IAP is introduced. Others don't.
That's my concern. That a feature that does not benefit my 'customers' in any way is put ahead of features that could help us make better games.
Cheers,
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io