JamesZeppelin said: i torque is a piece of crap. Look at the forums, barely anyone can even figure out how to publish an app with all the bugs. Currently you have to fix so many erros in xcode you are almost quicker JUST using xcode. Its 3d PC engine is great but itorque has a long ways to go.... but coming from a paid subscriber who has spent months programming with torque ...Its complete garbage as of now!
I have the 2D Mac license and it's a great tool. I won't use it to build huge game but only graphic adventure. I will ask in the torque forum. If it's so bad I'll go to Corona or GameMaker for iPhone when it will be release. The only thing that I know it that I'll leave GS when my express account will be expired.
marcotronic said: Worst thing that could happen. I´ve bought my Express license a couple of days ago (4th of October 2010) - would like to get my money back...
You are in the best possible position. You have a year of express membership, which means they have to honour that membership and all this does not affect you.
tshirtbooth said: @marcotronic a few days ago? your in a good spot. You get a year of being your own boss, nothing changes for you. A lot can happen in a year my friend!
cheers
Like the next release wont build properly on their servers? lol You think they are gonna get right on that for the few grandfathered in folks?
Xcode update all the time and GS has to keep up with it x2 now for a while?
AkoiAkemi..... you pretty much summed up my thoughts perfectly.
The only way theyre going to make good, consistent profit is if they have a solid, usable tool that is worth developers investing in. Build such a tool, and more developers would have considered the product as a viable option, worthy of buying into. As it is, theyve just put the nail in the coffin, and driven away any serious developers.
They are just insane! How can anyone trust them as they're publisher when they don't have any experience or any success game on the market.Plus they are showing right now (the way they are handling this) how bad they regarding communication. All that they are going to get is a lot of crappy games and the good ones (if any) are going to suffer from this...
@tshirtbooth: But I fear there won´t be any software updates for me for a year then... (I know they didn´t say they wouldn´t update the existing versions but the fear is there...)
quantumsheep said: You are in the best possible position. You have a year of express membership, which means they have to honour that membership and all this does not affect you.
QS
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject QS. I know you were having a heyday dropping hints about the announcement
tshirtbooth said: that is a long time away, i would say 8-10 months before its ready for real use.
The speed that its going...I'd say 3-4 months before theres a usable GameMaker toolset for publishing to iDevices. The engine/game building tools are rock solid, and have been built over a good number of years. They only announced the release of the Mac version a month or 2 ago, and already have working games on the iPad/iphone.
I think its going to be a lot sooner than you think....
I already own a Unity license I havent really used yet, and older GameMaker licenses, so thats the 2 I'll be converting my efforts to if the newly announced GameSalad structure comes to pass.
Chunkypixels said: The speed that its going...I'd say 3-4 months before theres a usable GameMaker toolset for publishing to iDevices. The engine/game building tools are rock solid, and have been built over a good number of years. They only announced the release of the Mac version a month or 2 ago, and already have working games on the iPad/iphone.
I think its going to be a lot sooner than you think....
I hope you're right, because that is the next, best, viable option for non-programmers. And they're company is solid.
butterbean said: I hope you're right, because that is the next, best, viable option for non-programmers. And they're company is solid.
I probably would have switched to GameMaker when iPhone publishing became an option, anyway. Working with my first platform I learned, using GML again; it sounds like a dream!
JamesZeppelin said: Like the next release wont build properly on their servers? lol You think they are gonna get right on that for the few grandfathered in folks?
Xcode update all the time and GS has to keep up with it x2 now for a while?
Surely it will be the same tools just different license?
Eastbound said: I probably would have switched to GameMaker when iPhone publishing became an option, anyway. Working with my first platform I learned, using GML again; it sounds like a dream!
Well, it's only a matter of time before they release it, and I'm sure it will be months from now, and they're pricing and plan will be far more competitive than gamesalad.
Eastbound said: I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject QS. I know you were having a heyday dropping hints about the announcement
I can assure you I wasn't enjoying myself.
In fact, I'd just like to point out that some of us that knew this was coming saw it as a huge burden. We fought tooth and nail to try and convince them that this was not the way to go.
Because we love the tool, and the community, and want both to prosper.
GameSalad is a tool that Gendai is selling in one way or another. If we pay via subscription model - we don't really own the tool but pay to use it... that is fine with me. Gendai worked hard to make GameSalad and that is their product which they may money off of by either selling copies of it or selling subscriptions.
We, the game designers work hard on our games and thus we make the profit off our hard work. Those of us that chose to use a tool pay once for that tool.
If Gendai takes a portion of our revenue - then they are profiting from someone else's hard work. It then becomes unbalanced. If your tool was worth $99 or $1200 for advanced features - that is what you have declared to the world - the value of what your product is. If now you decide that you want to help developers with marketing, promotion, tech support, etc. Normally, when companies do that - it is a separate package that can be purchased for a nominal fee. If you said, "well, we have this new package for developers where we can take care of all the technical stuff and you can focus solely on development, but it's costly." Fine. How much? If you say to me that your extended service is say $5000 per year and I have decent success with our first game and want to build a second game.. ok, maybe I might invest for when I release a second game. I already proved that I can make a game that has some generated a bit of pocket change... wonderful.
If you want to make more money, Gendai. Raise your price. Don't control OUR product of OUR hardwork. Be grateful that we are using your tool to develop. To try and make money off of the hard work of others via by using your tool is rather a lazy way of revenue.
Not only that, but despite the fact that you would be helping with marketing and promotion... with hundreds if not thousands of GameSalad apps - it becomes umbrella marketing. All apps good and bad eventually get pooled together under the GameSalad name. If there are a high percentage of devs that release so so apps then customers may start staying away from apps made under the GameSalad logo. Hard working devs would be stuck sitting at the same level as "RetardFart".
Perhaps there maybe one or two GameSalad devs that make the next Doodle Jump or Angry Birds and thus GameSalad is propelled into popularity as "whoa, some excellent games just came out of GameSalad". The thought may be that now people start buying more apps made with your software. Wrong, won't happen. A game is only as good as what it's developer put into it.
And, to put it simply, the harder a develper works and sweats blood and tears to make a masterpiece - if that developer makes a lot of money because of all that hard work - why should that hardworking developer pay more for your services than some lazyass who is just trying to make a fast buck?
30% - Apple 20%-50% - GameSalad 30%-50% - Taxes (depending where you leave, 50% for me)
Plus you have to fight the bad name that GameSalad has, you need to do a lot of marketing yourself because right now GS more hurts the sales than helps
tshirtbooth said: So if gamesalad released an update today with ALL the features you would still jump ship? Im not sure i could.
I'll finish off current projects so Im not wasting my time and efforts, and then I'll start new projects with new software. Starting on new projects that i know will end up having to be published through GameSalad as the publisher just simply isnt an option Im willing to partake in.
Comments
We are now going to become reliant on a company that communicates as well as a new-born Helen Keller.
I won't use it to build huge game but only graphic adventure.
I will ask in the torque forum.
If it's so bad I'll go to Corona or GameMaker for iPhone when it will be release.
The only thing that I know it that I'll leave GS when my express account will be expired.
Worst thing that could happen. I´ve bought my Express license a couple of days ago (4th of October 2010) - would like to get my money back...
I´m gonna stay with cocos2d and have all the freedom in the world.
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Twitter:rondorocket
Web: rondorocket.com
You think they are gonna get right on that for the few grandfathered in folks?
Xcode update all the time and GS has to keep up with it x2 now for a while?
The only way theyre going to make good, consistent profit is if they have a solid, usable tool that is worth developers investing in.
Build such a tool, and more developers would have considered the product as a viable option, worthy of buying into. As it is, theyve just put the nail in the coffin, and driven away any serious developers.
All that they are going to get is a lot of crappy games and the good ones (if any) are going to suffer from this...
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
I think its going to be a lot sooner than you think....
I already own a Unity license I havent really used yet, and older GameMaker licenses, so thats the 2 I'll be converting my efforts to if the newly announced GameSalad structure comes to pass.
A dream that's too good to be true, albeit.
Features don't matter to me as much as freedom.
sounds quite good
In fact, I'd just like to point out that some of us that knew this was coming saw it as a huge burden. We fought tooth and nail to try and convince them that this was not the way to go.
Because we love the tool, and the community, and want both to prosper.
The vid I posted earlier sums it up far better:
In case you missed it:
QS
Dr. Sam Beckett never returned home...
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Quantum_Sheep
Web: https://quantumsheep.itch.io
Freedom is >features
There is no price on freedom!
Think of it this way:
GameSalad is a tool that Gendai is selling in one way or another. If we pay via subscription model - we don't really own the tool but pay to use it... that is fine with me. Gendai worked hard to make GameSalad and that is their product which they may money off of by either selling copies of it or selling subscriptions.
We, the game designers work hard on our games and thus we make the profit off our hard work. Those of us that chose to use a tool pay once for that tool.
If Gendai takes a portion of our revenue - then they are profiting from someone else's hard work. It then becomes unbalanced. If your tool was worth $99 or $1200 for advanced features - that is what you have declared to the world - the value of what your product is. If now you decide that you want to help developers with marketing, promotion, tech support, etc. Normally, when companies do that - it is a separate package that can be purchased for a nominal fee. If you said, "well, we have this new package for developers where we can take care of all the technical stuff and you can focus solely on development, but it's costly." Fine. How much? If you say to me that your extended service is say $5000 per year and I have decent success with our first game and want to build a second game.. ok, maybe I might invest for when I release a second game. I already proved that I can make a game that has some generated a bit of pocket change... wonderful.
If you want to make more money, Gendai. Raise your price. Don't control OUR product of OUR hardwork. Be grateful that we are using your tool to develop. To try and make money off of the hard work of others via by using your tool is rather a lazy way of revenue.
Not only that, but despite the fact that you would be helping with marketing and promotion... with hundreds if not thousands of GameSalad apps - it becomes umbrella marketing. All apps good and bad eventually get pooled together under the GameSalad name. If there are a high percentage of devs that release so so apps then customers may start staying away from apps made under the GameSalad logo. Hard working devs would be stuck sitting at the same level as "RetardFart".
Perhaps there maybe one or two GameSalad devs that make the next Doodle Jump or Angry Birds and thus GameSalad is propelled into popularity as "whoa, some excellent games just came out of GameSalad". The thought may be that now people start buying more apps made with your software. Wrong, won't happen. A game is only as good as what it's developer put into it.
And, to put it simply, the harder a develper works and sweats blood and tears to make a masterpiece - if that developer makes a lot of money because of all that hard work - why should that hardworking developer pay more for your services than some lazyass who is just trying to make a fast buck?
30% - Apple
20%-50% - GameSalad
30%-50% - Taxes (depending where you leave, 50% for me)
Plus you have to fight the bad name that GameSalad has, you need to do a lot of marketing yourself because right now GS more hurts the sales than helps