dhondon said: If UDK can charge 25% of your income (after 5000$) without forcing users to publish through them, why can't Gamesalad do the same? Is it that hard to write an contract????
I think thats where theyve got it all wrong..... fair enough, change to a different pricing structure...but taking away our independence as developers is just wrong, wrong, wrong.
I honestly dont see how they could have thought it was a good idea, and one that the majority of developers would accept. My guess is it came from one of the new "business" types that are now involved with the company since the investments.
If it shifts more towards the casual maker only, there are plenty of other options.
I feel bad saying this as a sous chef but i have never been hush hush about being a multi engine user so.....
Just one small piece of advice... Try Unity before corona if you are looking at other options. There is a lot to learn on either one so why not try the one with the largest community and that can crank out Zombieville, OMG pirates, Ravensword, Predators and battle bears.
Like i said hopefully it wont be a bad change but corona is not that great...trust me.
If GS does turn down this path that no one seems to be happy with it, I say this; GS has always been big on the community and the community getting together to create games. In order to "stick it to the man" take down all of your YouTube tutorials, go in and delete any post you can find with any solutions to GS functions you have posted. Take away any contribution that you have given to GS and post it on one of the sites a member has made (I know there are a few out there).
I think this will really make a statement to GS and once they see that their beloved community isnt behind them anymore it may make them change their ways.
Thinking back... this is why I got laid off from my job... Maybe I should just become a revolutionist!
Well that would be a good plan, if Gamesalad cared for the community. The fact that Gamesalad has such a good community is sheer luck; it has nothing to do with their support of us.
I think Codemonkey's previous statement in this thread pretty much solidifies this.
Why not just continue to give only the existing members the option in their account to continue to renew pro/express if they choose?
Or, for a quick burst of cash, give us all a chance to extend our memberships (pro/express) for an additional year but only if we do it within the next week or so (mine expires next month and now I can't renew and am unsure if I should continue to work on my current project).
If it shifts more towards the casual maker only, there are plenty of other options.
I feel bad saying this as a sous chef but i have never been hush hush about being a multi engine user so.....
Just one small piece of advice... Try Unity before corona if you are looking at other options. There is a lot to learn on either one so why not try the one with the largest community and that can crank out Zombieville, OMG pirates, Ravensword, Predators and battle bears.
Like i said hopefully it wont be a bad change but corona is not that great...trust me.
Actually Corona is superb...download the latest game edition
Eastbound said: Well that would be a good plan, if Gamesalad cared for the community. The fact that Gamesalad has such a good community is sheer luck; it has nothing to do with their support of us.
I think Codemonkey's previous statement in this thread pretty much solidifies this.
Well, due to the overwhelming dissent at this recent news (except for a few Sous-Chefs), it wouldnt surprise me if this thread gets locked soon, or the forums mysteriously go down, and get wiped.
Fetaboy said: Why not just continue to give only the existing members the option in their account to continue to renew pro/express if they choose?
Or, for a quick burst of cash, give us all a chance to extend our memberships (pro/express) for an additional year but only if we do it within the next week or so (mine expires next month and now I can't renew and am unsure if I should continue to work on my current project).
tshirtbooth said: I do not know this for sure but that would be crazy if they expected you to rip down an already made app just to do an update. I would not stand for that.
You paid for a membership you uploaded under your name you keep it under your name.
they start having to support many different systems...gets expensive...its cash that counts now
lots of users have already said things I would like to say, so I will keep it simple.
I will not be a part of this.
it seems like unity or corona will be the way to go. so. I would love to see a group of GS users work together to learn a new software. after all, one of the best things GS has (soon had) is the user community.
nulo said: lots of users have already said things I would like to say, so I will keep it simple.
I will not be a part of this.
it seems like unity or corona will be the way to go. so. I would love to see a group of GS users work together to learn a new software. after all, one of the best things GS has (soon had) is the user community.
That's true, I love the community, and it will be sad not to be a part of it, but I feel forced into looking elsewhere.
I'll be looking into Unity, and will do whatever it takes to learn a new program, and turn over a new leaf.
I have my express license. When it will expire I'll leave GS. I won't release game under someone else. iTorque is the only GS opponent now. Good to see that my license is not expired.
If we don't renew our apple dev sub, and go with the new GS regime (which wont need an apple sub). All our existing apps will be removed by apple right????
@RH: Exactly, They are doing it wrong, isn't bad enough to loose the independence but they have a pretty bad reputation as well... They should either completely rebrand themselves, and I mean a complete make over, new name, new logo or fist build a better name in time and after make such a drastic change.
If we don't renew our apple dev sub, and go with the new GS regime (which wont need an apple sub). All our existing apps will be removed by apple right????
butterbean said: That's true, I love the community, and it will be sad not to be a part of it, but I feel forced into looking elsewhere.
I'll be looking into Unity, and will do whatever it takes to learn a new program, and turn over a new leaf.
I'm thinking of going unity also... they JUST released version3 which looks to be AWESOME (specially the 3D side of things) and since Professionally I actually work with 3D, it seems like a good place to go. I'm sure its more complicated then corona, but since I will have to make the move, why not jump to something that might open more doors for me on the long-term. If we made a group of GS users to learn Unity, I'm sure we would be alright!
Neverbe said: I have my express license. When it will expire I'll leave GS. I won't release game under someone else. iTorque is the only GS opponent now. Good to see that my license is not expired.
i torque is a piece of crap. Look at the forums, barely anyone can even figure out how to publish an app with all the bugs. Currently you have to fix so many erros in xcode you are almost quicker JUST using xcode. Its 3d PC engine is great but itorque has a long ways to go.... but coming from a paid subscriber who has spent months programming with torque ...Its complete garbage as of now!
Rob2 said: Actually Corona is superb...download the latest game edition
Yes it is coming along but I'm done trying up and coming engines. Two engines are industry standard as far as support goes: Flash, and Unity (by that i mean the amount of assets you can buy, learn are countless on the web)
Given flash's history with apple and all of Unitiy's awards and major studio releases It's a clear choice for me.
Plus i have already finished one game with them and my next is due out soon with game center already working and the ability to post scores on your wall!
I've worked in Flash for years, but not much in ActionScript 3. I'm going to dive back into it. I think porting our current project to Flash might be our only option, unless I hear something reassuring very soon from GS.
Works the other way round too though..... when GameSalad goes out of business, it'll mean all the devs with games published through the GS account will all get their games removed.
Are you seriously going to FORCE us to publish through you?! That hardly seems right. It also seems like a sinking ship since the quality games will go some where else and you will be left with the mediocre stuff.
I hope you guys have some sort of option in place for the people that truly want to remain "independent" since isn't that what you are trying to promote?
After reading this entire thread, I'll state my observations/thoughts.
- With infused money (ie. the 1MM received) comes new people who have better ideas on how to run your business. Thus the new COO. Thus the new business model.
- It's clear GS wasn't churning a profit with their $99/$1999 subscriptions, but I don't think that was solely due to their pricing. The engine just isn't up to snuff, and is incapable of handling anything with any bit of complexity. (I've personally shelved six projects, all in various stages of development, with hopes of finishing them once engine performance reached 'acceptable' standards on devices). Thus it scared people away, at least the people I've talked to.
Which, just to give everyone a quick rundown of my background. I worked in professional development houses (most of that time as a 'senior designer') for 12 years before going indie. The games I've worked on have sold over 24MM units. In that time I've used so many different engines it would make your head spin. I also still talk to a lot of people who work at professional developers, who after seeing 'mrWalrus presents: An Impossible Game' asked me what I thought about the tools. On the ease of use side, I had nothing but great things to say about the drag and drop nature, however the performance side spoke for itself when they played the game for themselves.
- How can I expect GS to function as a publisher when, quite frankly, it hasn't been able to make a tool sans massive memory leaks, and the above mentioned poor performance on devices? Which doesn't even start to talk about their ability to communicate with their users. That's a beaten horse, however.. and just because it twitches, doesn't mean it's still kicking.
- I can see what they were thinking. "Yeah, a percentage of profits from developers will fill the gaps and turn GS into a proper function company", but with such a heavy hand comes consequences.
A revenue share is fine for companies with refined tools sets, such as Epic and their Unreal engine, but let'e be real for a second. With all of Game Salad's software's problems, who in their right mind would agree to such split? I already have artists to pay, sound guys to pay, Apple to split profits with, and uncle sam to pay. Now I have to take more off the top before even getting to everyone else? All of a sudden something that was barely keeping me above the poverty line is no longer a viable option.
- On top of that, not letting developers publisher under their own name. They might as well just screamed 'FINISH HIM!!!' with that decision, as it was the ultimate MK fatality. I felt like they ripped out my spine.
Nobody worth their salt in the development community is going to want to use a software package they need to re-start 50+ times a day, or one with poor documentation, or from a company that can't properly communicate with their users.
That said, I imagine most of the established members of this community will go elsewhere. With that goes all the free help they've been giving out. That's filled in the gaps for most people on how to get the most of out their engine. Thus made the community grow. The community will not grow with out the senior members providing the excellent demos and helping hands.
The funny thing is, they've done this all before they even get to a version 1.0. It's a sad day for sure, but all things must come to an end. There were better ways to go about trying to churn a profit GS, your new COO and investors would be wise to explore them.
I would personally think it'd be better to get a software package together, one that functions properly, before asking people for their blood.
Comments
I honestly dont see how they could have thought it was a good idea, and one that the majority of developers would accept. My guess is it came from one of the new "business" types that are now involved with the company since the investments.
Hopefully i will like the changes though.
If it shifts more towards the casual maker only, there are plenty of other options.
I feel bad saying this as a sous chef but i have never been hush hush about being a multi engine user so.....
Just one small piece of advice... Try Unity before corona if you are looking at other options.
There is a lot to learn on either one so why not try the one with the largest community and that can crank out Zombieville, OMG pirates, Ravensword, Predators and battle bears.
Like i said hopefully it wont be a bad change but corona is not that great...trust me.
I think Codemonkey's previous statement in this thread pretty much solidifies this.
Or, for a quick burst of cash, give us all a chance to extend our memberships (pro/express) for an additional year but only if we do it within the next week or so (mine expires next month and now I can't renew and am unsure if I should continue to work on my current project).
I will not be a part of this.
it seems like unity or corona will be the way to go.
so. I would love to see a group of GS users work together to learn a new software.
after all, one of the best things GS has (soon had) is the user community.
I'll be looking into Unity, and will do whatever it takes to learn a new program, and turn over a new leaf.
I won't release game under someone else.
iTorque is the only GS opponent now.
Good to see that my license is not expired.
As long as GameSalad is around (I'd be hard-pressed to think they can't pay a $99 fee), then your games and your royalties will stay forever.
http://www.fifthfloormedia.com/iphone-apps-dropped-if-developers-dont-renew/
If we don't renew our apple dev sub, and go with the new GS regime (which wont need an apple sub). All our existing apps will be removed by apple right????
Hardly a silver lining.
They are doing it wrong, isn't bad enough to loose the independence but they have a pretty bad reputation as well...
They should either completely rebrand themselves, and I mean a complete make over, new name, new logo or fist build a better name in time and after make such a drastic change.
and since Professionally I actually work with 3D, it seems like a good place to go.
I'm sure its more complicated then corona, but since I will have to make the move, why not jump to something that might open more doors for me on the long-term.
If we made a group of GS users to learn Unity, I'm sure we would be alright!
Look at the forums, barely anyone can even figure out how to publish an app with all the bugs. Currently you have to fix so many erros in xcode you are almost quicker JUST using xcode.
Its 3d PC engine is great but itorque has a long ways to go.... but coming from a paid subscriber who has spent months programming with torque ...Its complete garbage as of now! Yes it is coming along but I'm done trying up and coming engines.
Two engines are industry standard as far as support goes: Flash, and Unity
(by that i mean the amount of assets you can buy, learn are countless on the web)
Given flash's history with apple and all of Unitiy's awards and major studio releases It's a clear choice for me.
Plus i have already finished one game with them and my next is due out soon with game center already working and the ability to post scores on your wall!
Just my 2 cents!
heres my current project if anyone wants to check it out.
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=67226
I hope you guys have some sort of option in place for the people that truly want to remain "independent" since isn't that what you are trying to promote?
Twitter:rondorocket
Web: rondorocket.com
- With infused money (ie. the 1MM received) comes new people who have better ideas on how to run your business. Thus the new COO. Thus the new business model.
- It's clear GS wasn't churning a profit with their $99/$1999 subscriptions, but I don't think that was solely due to their pricing. The engine just isn't up to snuff, and is incapable of handling anything with any bit of complexity. (I've personally shelved six projects, all in various stages of development, with hopes of finishing them once engine performance reached 'acceptable' standards on devices). Thus it scared people away, at least the people I've talked to.
Which, just to give everyone a quick rundown of my background. I worked in professional development houses (most of that time as a 'senior designer') for 12 years before going indie. The games I've worked on have sold over 24MM units. In that time I've used so many different engines it would make your head spin. I also still talk to a lot of people who work at professional developers, who after seeing 'mrWalrus presents: An Impossible Game' asked me what I thought about the tools. On the ease of use side, I had nothing but great things to say about the drag and drop nature, however the performance side spoke for itself when they played the game for themselves.
- How can I expect GS to function as a publisher when, quite frankly, it hasn't been able to make a tool sans massive memory leaks, and the above mentioned poor performance on devices? Which doesn't even start to talk about their ability to communicate with their users. That's a beaten horse, however.. and just because it twitches, doesn't mean it's still kicking.
- I can see what they were thinking. "Yeah, a percentage of profits from developers will fill the gaps and turn GS into a proper function company", but with such a heavy hand comes consequences.
A revenue share is fine for companies with refined tools sets, such as Epic and their Unreal engine, but let'e be real for a second. With all of Game Salad's software's problems, who in their right mind would agree to such split? I already have artists to pay, sound guys to pay, Apple to split profits with, and uncle sam to pay. Now I have to take more off the top before even getting to everyone else? All of a sudden something that was barely keeping me above the poverty line is no longer a viable option.
- On top of that, not letting developers publisher under their own name. They might as well just screamed 'FINISH HIM!!!' with that decision, as it was the ultimate MK fatality. I felt like they ripped out my spine.
Nobody worth their salt in the development community is going to want to use a software package they need to re-start 50+ times a day, or one with poor documentation, or from a company that can't properly communicate with their users.
That said, I imagine most of the established members of this community will go elsewhere. With that goes all the free help they've been giving out. That's filled in the gaps for most people on how to get the most of out their engine. Thus made the community grow. The community will not grow with out the senior members providing the excellent demos and helping hands.
The funny thing is, they've done this all before they even get to a version 1.0. It's a sad day for sure, but all things must come to an end. There were better ways to go about trying to churn a profit GS, your new COO and investors would be wise to explore them.
I would personally think it'd be better to get a software package together, one that functions properly, before asking people for their blood.
keep it short and sweet...catchy subject