Lets hope the delayed response is down to them discussing alternative plans with their investors
I have been coming to the forums here daily for nearly a year, it's sad to see the community fall apart like this. But you cant really blame people for being angry, its a radial change.
To the people waiting for Gamemaker to incorporate iphone development, I have a strong feeling they will embrace a very similar business model to the one Gamesalad has come up with.
Gamemakers current customer base are mostly kids (check out yoyogames.com). I would guess over 95% of their users use windows to develop their games. This means its very unlikely they would alienate the vast majority of their user base by making it Mac only. Which means they must offer a publishing service also for the kids who develop on windows and can't use the Mac only SDK. Hopefully they will let people publish their games independently but am not too sure that would be in their best interest.
I really hope Gamesalad release a statement soon to try and stabilise the situation or its in danger of losing many of its most loyal developers who have helped Gamesalad grow and prosper.
Also I Guess Gamesalad for windows is now just around the corner, get ready for the invasion of the plagiarised kiddy made template games : \
I managed to read all posts. As most of you I don't like the idea of giving away my independence. I'm not going to write why this idea is bad, because many of you said that before. I'm glad that I have almost one year of membership, but after this time I'm going to use Corona or Unity. I think you should leave the pro membership, I would pay 1999 USD for GS membership IF I'd be able to publish my game under my Apple Dev account.
Now that I'm awake, I really hope that the GS team has been able to digest all that's been said and craft a detailed response to explain what's going on.
Has anyone thought that this move may be to do with security as well for their IP.
Thinking about it they give us an entire copy of their game engine contained in the 'not so secure' app file they send us, hell it even contains the gs project file. Just replied to another thread and it made me think that maybe this is their way to stop someone cracking GS, don't send out the apps to people at all. But I guess once you buy it you can still do the same thing to it, just a thought.
Any reason no one is talking about Torque as the next platform? I'm looking at that and Unity, they both look like a step up (in a good way!). At least no more memory leaks!
Someone said on a thread that the lack of any official word could be because they are squabbling with investors trying to come up with a better alternative. So, I'm holding my breathe and waiting. GS is not a perfect engine yet, but for our game it has everything we need. Not to sound lazy, but I don't feel like re-inventing the wheel by coding collision, camera, menu functions, etc, etc.
Please Gendai, change back to the old subscription model. If you really want to try your hand at umbrella marketing and release games under your brand, it may be considered by some, if it's an option.
At the moment this is like getting handed a chainsaw for free, but in order to use it, you have to give a percentage of lumber or profit from lumber to the store to forever pay for the damn thing. I'd rather go across the way to the other store and buy a chainsaw for a one time fee, then it belongs to me and what I do with it is what I do with it.
Do the right thing. You guys built up an excellent community. Many have actually been trying to improve the name of GS among app users, which is FREE word of mouth marketing for you and your product. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had "proudly made with GameSalad" as part of their intro. That's not going to happen now until you smarten up.
MattVollet said: Any reason no one is talking about Torque as the next platform? I'm looking at that and Unity, they both look like a step up (in a good way!). At least no more memory leaks!
Yeah, from my research torque for iphone is not very stable or working very well. Seems it has problems compiling in xcode and you have to fix your own bugs in the code.
Wow... Just wow. I go to the hospital, am gone for two days and come home to find the entire GS world has pretty much just ended... Good thing I've made my money back... I'm not going to be using this Direct garbage.
My only regret: that I didn't sign up for Corona when it was still cheap. Or spend the time learning unity...
I understand you ...just think it is a shame you are so willing to give up your 'youness' especially as you are probably the most unique person in this place.:) I dunno...its just such a fecking shame...why can't people ever be happy with pie for one..why has it always gotta be more more more...
I'll ask you again, feel free not to respond, really, I know you are not their advocate and that you are a really nice guy... so, aren't you worried at all that good games that are going to be published under gamesalad will sale very poor because of the bad reputation they have? And right now not every bad game shows the gamesalad logo and they don't show that it's made by GS in the appstore so it's going to be even worst when ALL the games will be published under their name. So their reputation will be even worst after the gamers will see that GS is responsible for a much larger percentage of crappy apps.
i keep hearing features are coming but whats coming and when so i can plan my apps this is the communication problem why be so secretive its not like someone else is going to say that a great idea then go and build a gs clone
tshirtbooth said: Ok im not going to defend the guys at gamesalad all day like i did yesterday. But ill say this.
I and sticking around and I feel i can make a living with gamesalad.
Obviously you're a leader in this community and there can't possibly be even ONE person on this forum who doesn't respect you and the work you do. I think we're all lucky to have gotten your help and advice over the year(s) that we've been with Gamesalad, and equally as lucky to see the products that you put out and their immense quality. Your loyalty is admirable, your talent is unquestionable, and your standpoint is justifiable.
I don't think it is right for anyone to sit here and tell you that you are making a bad decision, because in a situation like this only one party is making the bad decision and the rest of us just have to adapt.
I can see both sides of the coin:
Gamesalad is easy, it works, and if you're damn good at it you can make a great game.
Let's talk Unity:
Unity is moderately difficulty, it works, and if you're damn good at it you can make a great game with your name on it.
The trade off is even in my opinion, and I think 90% of the other people's opinions here.
Again, no right and wrong. Just options.
And, as if it needed to be said, you not migrating with us to a different platform is a major blow to our community and it won't be the same. Hopefully we can keep up on the products you come out with.
I still have 8 months to go with my express subscription. I really like gamesalad, it has pros and cons. At the end of the day it not matter which tool we use to do games, is great ideas and hard work that's what may the games succeed. I will continue using my GS account until expired, but I will look around for other tools to go on, I dont like either the new way of doing things.
The only thing that I really dont like about GS is the lack of an "expert" mode. After making some games, I spend a lot of time copying and pasting, dragging and dropping attributes and behaviors. When you become proficient in GS you will code much much faster just by "writing" code (or pseudo code) than dragging and dropping. Add to this the lag (rainbow circular icon) when switching from actors even when you have a small game.
tshirtbooth said: Rob what you dont get is We were not happy with there pie for one.
Sure they could have stayed 3 guys there there moms basement building GS. What everyone B****** we dont have this we dont have that, whats taking so long. WHY cant we have fro for NOTHING!
So they stepped up got some money got some new guys so they can bring us what we wanted.
Thats not Cheep, that takes money. The only way they can make sure they get there cut is to publish for us. IT was there only option to make us happy. And guess what were still not happy.
That simply isn't true, the improvements that were needed did not require millions in investment, you are simply believing too easily what they are feeding you as the reasons for all this. If three men in a basement got GS this far then four men in a nice office could have taken it stellar.
Yes we understant tshirt, that is the reason that this may only works for you and people like you. People who create a lot of games. For the rest of us its just not going to work. Also as of right now GS doesnt have the best reputation because all the haters so may be one game from somewhere else may sell more that 3 games from GS. And yes I know the argument about the people not knowing that the game is from GS before the buy is made but that is not the case, because the people knows after the first couple of reviews. So basically the New GS is for the people who are not looking to profit but the people who just want to create apps, maybe to impress others. Maybe for kids.
aracknor said: Yes we understant tshirt, that is the reason that this may only works for you and people like you. People who create a lot of games. For the rest of us its just not going to work. Also as of right now GS doesnt have the best reputation because all the haters so may be one game from somewhere else may sell more that 3 games from GS. And yes I know the argument about the people not knowing that the game is from GS before the buy is made but that is not the case, because the people knows after the first couple of reviews. So basically the New GS is for the people who are not looking to profit but the people who just want to create apps, maybe to impress others. Maybe for kids.
THAT is my point. I don't want MY games to be associated with GameSalad as the AUTHOR. Having a splash screen was fine, but having "GameSalad" as the AUTHOR? No...... Not for me.
aracknor said: So basically the New GS is for the people who are not looking to profit but the people who just want to create apps, maybe to impress others. Maybe for kids.
Good point. When you look at it that way it seems like maybe GS will become the gateway drug of app developing. Get in, see if it works for you, what you can do, then move onto a different platform that offers no profit sharing, self publishing and more stability/options.
I think a lot of people here were past the point where GS was what they wanted but were holding out for the big 1.0 update. Now the product has transformed from a "hardcore" game development platform to something dangerously close to a toy.
Anyway, don't be scared to learn. Don't be scared to grow. Don't be scared of Unity.
At the end of the day, the owners of the company made a decision that they felt was best for them and best for the sustainability of their company.
Personally, I don't like it and I really think that if people can't adapt, they need to consider an exit strategy and look at alternatives.
I know I am going to continue with my license and when it expires I will re-evaluate my situation and do what is best for me... just like Gendai Games did. I think more people here need to do that. The situation sucks, but that's life. Take it as an opportunity to challenge yourself to work with it or to work with another vendor that has offers a similar slant to what you are looking for.
Thats not Cheep, that takes money. The only way they can make sure they get there cut is to publish for us. IT was there only option to make us happy. And guess what were still not happy.
Were not happy because they are going to rape us and all we want from them is to sell us a piece of software Unity can do it Corona can do it why can't Gamesalad. Tshirt you know as well as use you would happily pay more for an option where they sell us a piece of software and leave us alone this is one step forward and two steps back we all understand wanting to make money hell thats why where so pissed because they are going to make it about impossible and unleash a massive amount of crap on the app store and make the name Gamesalad stand for the worst games out there I think we would all be much happier if they would just offer a Pro version that would allow us to self publish and they can still take the money of all the people who don't want to go that route.
tshirtbooth said: Rob what you dont get is We were not happy with there pie for one.
Sure they could have stayed 3 guys there there moms basement building GS. What everyone B****** we dont have this we dont have that, whats taking so long. WHY cant we have fro for NOTHING!
So they stepped up got some money got some new guys so they can bring us what we wanted.
Thats not Cheep, that takes money. The only way they can make sure they get there cut is to publish for us. IT was there only option to make us happy. And guess what were still not happy.
No...it wasnt their only option...and you know it. Ok, so we dont know all the details and info that your obviously privvy to, but even so, i think its pretty fair to say that this was not their one and only option.
You cannot place blame with the community.... they didnt know how large a company Gendai were... or what it was capable of. The community bought into a promise. GameSalad kept on with the promises, and the hype, until they couldnt balance things anymore, at which point they went silent on the community. They promised a big update... people bought into it... and were rewarded with yesterdays bombshell of an announcement.
Tshirt...we know your GameSalads biggest advocate, but to try placing the blame on the community is just wrong. Gendai made the decisions, and chose their own way of doing things....
tshirtbooth said: So they stepped up got some money got some new guys so they can bring us what we wanted.
Thats not Cheep, that takes money. The only way they can make sure they get there cut is to publish for us. IT was there only option to make us happy. And guess what were still not happy.
I think most people that weren't just kids shouting 'we want more featurez!!' actually wanted a stable and efficient engine first. Then features for more people would have been nice. Pretty sure if they'd wanted to do that they could have lowered the price of pro to $500 and made an actual beta version that worked properly first. Dress it up how you like but this is not a noble move to give everyone more features, it's a money move and that's cool for them but alienates others, that's how business works.
Comments
I have been coming to the forums here daily for nearly a year, it's sad to see the community fall apart like this. But you cant really blame people for being angry, its a radial change.
To the people waiting for Gamemaker to incorporate iphone development, I have a strong feeling they will embrace a very similar business model to the one Gamesalad has come up with.
Gamemakers current customer base are mostly kids (check out yoyogames.com). I would guess over 95% of their users use windows to develop their games. This means its very unlikely they would alienate the vast majority of their user base by making it Mac only. Which means they must offer a publishing service also for the kids who develop on windows and can't use the Mac only SDK. Hopefully they will let people publish their games independently but am not too sure that would be in their best interest.
I really hope Gamesalad release a statement soon to try and stabilise the situation or its in danger of losing many of its most loyal developers who have helped Gamesalad grow and prosper.
Also I Guess Gamesalad for windows is now just around the corner, get ready for the invasion of the plagiarised kiddy made template games : \
Shame about my new $99 Apple Dev account.
I will be weighing up my options also, GS is a little feature lacking and there are a few accessible game engines now.
hope it all works out, i like GS.
I'm not going to write why this idea is bad, because many of you said that before.
I'm glad that I have almost one year of membership, but after this time I'm going to use Corona or Unity.
I think you should leave the pro membership, I would pay 1999 USD for GS membership IF I'd be able to publish my game under my Apple Dev account.
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Thinking about it they give us an entire copy of their game engine contained in the 'not so secure' app file they send us, hell it even contains the gs project file. Just replied to another thread and it made me think that maybe this is their way to stop someone cracking GS, don't send out the apps to people at all. But I guess once you buy it you can still do the same thing to it, just a thought.
Please Gendai, change back to the old subscription model. If you really want to try your hand at umbrella marketing and release games under your brand, it may be considered by some, if it's an option.
At the moment this is like getting handed a chainsaw for free, but in order to use it, you have to give a percentage of lumber or profit from lumber to the store to forever pay for the damn thing. I'd rather go across the way to the other store and buy a chainsaw for a one time fee, then it belongs to me and what I do with it is what I do with it.
Do the right thing. You guys built up an excellent community. Many have actually been trying to improve the name of GS among app users, which is FREE word of mouth marketing for you and your product. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had "proudly made with GameSalad" as part of their intro. That's not going to happen now until you smarten up.
My only regret: that I didn't sign up for Corona when it was still cheap. Or spend the time learning unity...
Unbelievable.
Unity it is. I'm actually excited.
See my post (in the "off-topic" forum).
Your loyalty is admirable, your talent is unquestionable, and your standpoint is justifiable.
I don't think it is right for anyone to sit here and tell you that you are making a bad decision, because in a situation like this only one party is making the bad decision and the rest of us just have to adapt.
I can see both sides of the coin:
Gamesalad is easy, it works, and if you're damn good at it you can make a great game.
Let's talk Unity:
Unity is moderately difficulty, it works, and if you're damn good at it you can make a great game with your name on it.
The trade off is even in my opinion, and I think 90% of the other people's opinions here.
Again, no right and wrong. Just options.
And, as if it needed to be said, you not migrating with us to a different platform is a major blow to our community and it won't be the same. Hopefully we can keep up on the products you come out with.
At the end of the day it not matter which tool we use to do games, is great ideas and hard work that's what may the games succeed.
I will continue using my GS account until expired, but I will look around for other tools to go on, I dont like either the new way of doing things.
The only thing that I really dont like about GS is the lack of an "expert" mode. After making some games, I spend a lot of time copying and pasting, dragging and dropping attributes and behaviors. When you become proficient in GS you will code much much faster just by "writing" code (or pseudo code) than dragging and dropping. Add to this the lag (rainbow circular icon) when switching from actors even when you have a small game.
So that's my 2cents.
So basically the New GS is for the people who are not looking to profit but the people who just want to create apps, maybe to impress others. Maybe for kids.
I think a lot of people here were past the point where GS was what they wanted but were holding out for the big 1.0 update. Now the product has transformed from a "hardcore" game development platform to something dangerously close to a toy.
Anyway, don't be scared to learn. Don't be scared to grow. Don't be scared of Unity.
Personally, I don't like it and I really think that if people can't adapt, they need to consider an exit strategy and look at alternatives.
I know I am going to continue with my license and when it expires I will re-evaluate my situation and do what is best for me... just like Gendai Games did. I think more people here need to do that. The situation sucks, but that's life. Take it as an opportunity to challenge yourself to work with it or to work with another vendor that has offers a similar slant to what you are looking for.
It's pretty cut and dry really...
Were not happy because they are going to rape us and all we want from them is to sell us a piece of software Unity can do it Corona can do it why can't Gamesalad. Tshirt you know as well as use you would happily pay more for an option where they sell us a piece of software and leave us alone this is one step forward and two steps back we all understand wanting to make money hell thats why where so pissed because they are going to make it about impossible and unleash a massive amount of crap on the app store and make the name Gamesalad stand for the worst games out there I think we would all be much happier if they would just offer a Pro version that would allow us to self publish and they can still take the money of all the people who don't want to go that route.
You cannot place blame with the community.... they didnt know how large a company Gendai were... or what it was capable of. The community bought into a promise. GameSalad kept on with the promises, and the hype, until they couldnt balance things anymore, at which point they went silent on the community. They promised a big update... people bought into it... and were rewarded with yesterdays bombshell of an announcement.
Tshirt...we know your GameSalads biggest advocate, but to try placing the blame on the community is just wrong. Gendai made the decisions, and chose their own way of doing things....