I feel bad cuz most my apps are in the 'craptard' category and not making any money...haven't even recoup my license fees, not to mentioned my Mac, iPhone or iPad (just got it).
Like TSB said before, his very first couple of games weren't that great (I still have jeweled master and use the logic for my first two 'taptards').
I have a full time job, plus family, so I can't dedicate 16hr+/day to my games, but I feel like every time I build and/or start with a new one, I learn a bit more and each game gets 'better' either in graphics, sound or a little interpolation here and there.
This announcement doesnt impact me too much financially right now because this is a hobby for me and not even making $10/week; but you'll never know if one of your games might become a hit somewhere and now you have the next angry birds on your hands and now your being forced to give up some additional earnings and your identity to Gendai...that just doesn't sound right.
Just my two cents (after Apple and Gendai's cut) to this whole thread.
If they want more money why not charge $199-$299 for express and pro plus an app fee that way they make there cheddar and were all happy but we get to keep our dev accounts. If they want a cut of our profits they need to step up to the plate an earn it not by saying yeah we got pause and now where adding start lol cause we need more then that and also communication would be great.
Fetaboy said: Not sure if it's the same, but I have a deal with one of my apps where a certain company gets a cut of all sales. I added their financial guy in itunes connect, giving him the ability to see my financial reports. They then take there cut from there.
Exactly...you are still your own publisher and then pay whoever you are contracted to pay once Apple pay you.
They could charge as much as Corona or Unity and we'd pay it.
Those of us who can afford it would pay $2000, even.
But if every other app engine can make a profit by charging users around $350 to $400 - why not make Express $350 or $400 and leave Pro as it is?
I just feel like there were so many better ways they could have handled this rather than destroying something great; and while others may disagree I feel they HAVE destroyed it. It isn't at all in the indie spirit any more.
peachpellen said: They could charge as much as Corona or Unity and we'd pay it.
Those of us who can afford it would pay $2000, even.
But if every other app engine can make a profit by charging users around $350 to $400 - why not make Express $350 or $400 and leave Pro as it is?
I just feel like there were so many better ways they could have handled this rather than destroying something great; and while others may disagree I feel they HAVE destroyed it. It isn't at all in the indie spirit any more.
They should do it that way, but unfortunately it seems they have been forced into this atrocious plan.
I really hope they change their minds, because a lot of people will leave, and the damage will be irreversible.
I think they're making a catastrophic mistake to put it lightly.
And by moving forth with this plan, they are undermining the ability of others to "learn" a new program, and move on.
Hmmm. Perhaps this will be a blessing in disguise for some.
We are now forced to move on, and to move on to better pastures.
@peach: because they are greedy! And also because they are slow in developing the app... now really, why the f takes so long to add game center support? as other have said it's a day work for a skilled programmer!
LAdrian said: @peach: because they are greedy! And also because they are slow in developing the app... now really, why the f takes so long to add game center support? as other have said it's a day work for a skilled programmer!
At $99 for Express, that's hardly greedy. But I do believe they shot themselves in the foot by not charging more and they seriously needed an injection of funds. That, they definitely got, but some suit probably thought that this new publishing model was a good way of recouping that investment cost.
I will agree with you on quickly injecting necessary code needed to make a few more cool features. For example, Torque users have been able to incorporate some of the wanted features with just a few modifications.
Surely if they didn't have to deal with so much red tape (pretty peculiar for a startup company), some of these things would have been incorporated already.
You misunderstood me, I never said 99$ was much, I said that NOW they got greedy. I was willing to pay the 1999$ even though it's still a beta software and currently a lot less powerful than unity.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to become an useful member for this community due to real life hard work and studies, but in the 11 month I spent on the creator and lurking on the forums I was able to learn a lot.
GS move could have been a business success if only they had listened more to their users.
For example if they made two accounts - a GameSalad one for top apps and a JohnDoe for the crApps - and if they gave us the option to pay for publishing on our own, maybe we would have less threads an posts on the matter.
For those worried about their name I have to say that they are wrong (to some extent) because in my experience I buy apps knowing who have really made them. Using chillingo as an example I know that Rovio is behind Angry Birds, Zeptolab made Cut the rope and Redshift made the "The Quest" series, and I visit their sites - not chillingo's - to know about news and updates.
The real problem about GameSalad is communication. I don't expect to know what they're up to but, as Apple do, when they give an announcement they should at least give us all the infos about it.
Many things where omitted in they're last posts and two concern me a lot that haven't been discussed there (or maybe I missed them).
1. Payments - international bank transfers are not an easy matter how they will manage them? Many companies usually have different legal entities in different zones to avoid fiscal troubles. Did they thought of that or are they thinking of using third party services like PayPal? (meaning other % lost)
2. Provisioning profiles - how will they manage them? I usually have 4 to 6 different developement profiles to test different builds at the same time on different devices (will we be limited to the viewer?) Also we should have the possibility to edit the udid associated with the profiles for betatesting and preview builds.
I hope they soon make a big October Big Picture post to explain everything in detail.
With Corona, you avoid extra charges. No revenue share requirements. No hidden fees. No watermarks — with Corona just sell your apps and reap the rewards.
BeyondtheTech said: ... Or how about a family photo?
Oh, that gives me a great idea. I'll take a while to get done... I still have catch-up reading to do since I was on the road most of yesterday. (I'm down to the last 11 pages of this thread!)
1999 for a beta version? No way!!! Now I will not pay this price for the final version. You guys broken my trust on you!!!!
Another good question: do you know how complicated is to made a international transfer of money? I'm a brazilian - sorry for my English - and a GameSalad fan, but I want my games on my brand! the GameSalad logo, no iAd, no external links doesn't bother me... but be a part of a company that do this kind of stuff to your clients? no way.
Since Apple has agreed to develop apps on different platforms like adobe, I thought. gamesalad now will implement new features!!finally! but nothing. I must now publish under their name..and my reputation? and the gamesalad reputation?? i'll not pay $ 2000 for publish under my name.
Why not offer the pro membership for $500-$1000 for the next 30days. That would guarantee that influx of cash they want. I would assume they can sell 1000 licenses. That would be a quick million right? I'm ok with royalties if it is free but I make games for clients and need to be able to give them there game. So I need a pro license!
No one has to pay $2k. I'm suggesting $2k for Pro, $350 to $400 for Express.
This would have worked. Pro is still overpriced for GS as it stands now, and as a BETA, however if 1.0 is as good as promised it would have been fair, as would up to $400 for Express.
They could have quadrupled their income from Express accounts (which I gather are by far the most common) - 1000 users would bring them $400,000 as oppose to $99,000.
I refuse to believe they need as much money as they're talking about to be profitable and successful if they've not gone under on the current scheme; this does seem to come down to pure greed.
If anyone would care to look at the definition of "Indie" - it isn't about people who make a living selling apps - it's just about those who produce an app, even a free one, independent of big corporations, a publisher, etc.
It's really sad this has happened - they could admittedly still turn it around but given that they wouldn't do it for those begging them a month ago, I doubt they'll do it for those of us who were just m'f'ing afterthoughts.
Come to think about it, perhaps deep down inside, all they really want is a % of our sales (which is fine as long as it's not something crazy), which is made much easier if they publish the apps.
If we published under our own names, we'd have to add them in iTunesConnect to be able to access our financial reports, and they'd have to do the work to figure out how much to take from each developer's account, send us a bill (or bill us), make sure we paid, etc, etc. A lot of extra overhead on their end.
Fetaboy said: perhaps deep down inside, all they really want is a % of our sales
Adobe Photoshop doesn't ask me for a percentage. iWork doesn't ask me for a percentage. Microsoft Windows doesn't ask me for a percentage.
Gendai Games is selling software. If they want to be in the publishing business, then how are they qualified? What services are they offering? I don't see the value in what they're proposing.
Fetaboy said: Come to think about it, perhaps deep down inside, all they really want is a % of our sales (which is fine as long as it's not something crazy), which is made much easier if they publish the apps.
If we published under our own names, we'd have to add them in iTunesConnect to be able to access our financial reports, and they'd have to do the work to figure out how much to take from each developer's account, send us a bill (or bill us), make sure we paid, etc, etc. A lot of extra overhead on their end.
Photics said: Adobe Photoshop doesn't ask me for a percentage. iWork doesn't ask me for a percentage. Microsoft Windows doesn't ask me for a percentage.
Gendai Games is selling software. If they want to be in the publishing business, then how are they qualified? What services are they offering? I don't see the value in what they're proposing.
Nor do I. I'm just trying to find a rational explanation from their point of view on why they'd want to suddenly publish the apps. That was the only reason I could come up with. Believe me, I completely think we should have to option to publish ourselves (for extra $$ if need be), or most of us (myself included) will be gone.
After reading several threads and standing "in the shadows" for several days this is my conclusion.
**Weswog's Take on new system** Gamesalad has made a move most of us wouldn't prefer but this might be whats necessary I for one will partially change to something else UNLESS gamesalad says something that I will stay for. The truth is I still like Gamesalad but they need something different of what they're offering.
This is my story of when gamesalad was old to now I loved the tool it gave me updates then iphone publishing and everyone took it for $99 some when it was $499 and then gamesalad kept getting better and I learned so much and made more apps then this really bad/partially good thing happened and I feel like it's wrong but some people may like it.
Overall Gamesalad made a choice and everyone has to deal with it.
Also my suggestion to Gamesalad is to make express $250 for some features Express features *iOS Publishing *Url fowarding
That's it then make a pro account that cost $1250 and gives you -iOS Publishing -iAds -Url fowarding -Gamecenter -Extra support -Testing of updates before everyone else -No splashscreen -Etc.
This is my take on new system and a suggestion on what to do
Fetaboy said: .... A lot of extra overhead on their end. ....
that type of "work" is done in seconds on computers...nobody has to enter any data...the data is electronically transmitted...just as your reports came from Apple's databases...they will now go to GS and GS' computer will do the math and deductions and send you a report when scheduled for mailing...don't think any eyes will be upon it...unless certain criteria is flagged for display.
Weswog said: After reading several threads and standing "in the shadows" for several days this is my conclusion.
**Weswog's Take on new system** Gamesalad has made a move most of us wouldn't prefer but this might be whats necessary I for one will partially change to something else UNLESS gamesalad says something that I will stay for. The truth is I still like Gamesalad but they need something different of what they're offering.
This is my story of when gamesalad was old to now I loved the tool it gave me updates then iphone publishing and everyone took it for $99 some when it was $499 and then gamesalad kept getting better and I learned so much and made more apps then this really bad/partially good thing happened and I feel like it's wrong but some people may like it.
Overall Gamesalad made a choice and everyone has to deal with it.
Also my suggestion to Gamesalad is to make express $250 for some features Express features *iOS Publishing *Url fowarding
That's it then make a pro account that cost $1250 and gives you -iOS Publishing -iAds -Url fowarding -Gamecenter -Extra support -Testing of updates before everyone else -No splashscreen -Etc.
This is my take on new system and a suggestion on what to do
Cheers, Weswog
That's one of the worst ideas I've heard, Apple gives all those features for $99... gamesalad would be just redistributing those same features for $1250..
Weswog said: After reading several threads and standing "in the shadows" for several days this is my conclusion.
**Weswog's Take on new system** Gamesalad has made a move most of us wouldn't prefer but this might be whats necessary I for one will partially change to something else UNLESS gamesalad says something that I will stay for. The truth is I still like Gamesalad but they need something different of what they're offering.
This is my story of when gamesalad was old to now I loved the tool it gave me updates then iphone publishing and everyone took it for $99 some when it was $499 and then gamesalad kept getting better and I learned so much and made more apps then this really bad/partially good thing happened and I feel like it's wrong but some people may like it.
Overall Gamesalad made a choice and everyone has to deal with it.
Also my suggestion to Gamesalad is to make express $250 for some features Express features *iOS Publishing *Url fowarding
That's it then make a pro account that cost $1250 and gives you -iOS Publishing -iAds -Url fowarding -Gamecenter -Extra support -Testing of updates before everyone else -No splashscreen -Etc.
This is my take on new system and a suggestion on what to do
Comments
I feel bad cuz most my apps are in the 'craptard' category and not making any money...haven't even recoup my license fees, not to mentioned my Mac, iPhone or iPad (just got it).
Like TSB said before, his very first couple of games weren't that great (I still have jeweled master and use the logic for my first two 'taptards').
I have a full time job, plus family, so I can't dedicate 16hr+/day to my games, but I feel like every time I build and/or start with a new one, I learn a bit more and each game gets 'better' either in graphics, sound or a little interpolation here and there.
This announcement doesnt impact me too much financially right now because this is a hobby for me and not even making $10/week; but you'll never know if one of your games might become a hit somewhere and now you have the next angry birds on your hands and now your being forced to give up some additional earnings and your identity to Gendai...that just doesn't sound right.
Just my two cents (after Apple and Gendai's cut) to this whole thread.
RD
Those of us who can afford it would pay $2000, even.
But if every other app engine can make a profit by charging users around $350 to $400 - why not make Express $350 or $400 and leave Pro as it is?
I just feel like there were so many better ways they could have handled this rather than destroying something great; and while others may disagree I feel they HAVE destroyed it. It isn't at all in the indie spirit any more.
I really hope they change their minds, because a lot of people will leave, and the damage will be irreversible.
I think they're making a catastrophic mistake to put it lightly.
And by moving forth with this plan, they are undermining the ability of others to "learn" a new program, and move on.
Hmmm. Perhaps this will be a blessing in disguise for some.
We are now forced to move on, and to move on to better pastures.
I will agree with you on quickly injecting necessary code needed to make a few more cool features. For example, Torque users have been able to incorporate some of the wanted features with just a few modifications.
Native keyboard?
http://www.torquepowered.com/community/forums/viewthread/85799
GameCenter and OpenFeint?
http://www.torquepowered.com/community/forums/viewthread/104583/4#comment-783267
Video playback?
http://www.torquepowered.com/community/forums/viewthread/104513
Surely if they didn't have to deal with so much red tape (pretty peculiar for a startup company), some of these things would have been incorporated already.
BRING GENDAI BACK!
Also bringing back pro will do nothing. Pro at $2,000 will still make everyone leave.
They've already crashed into the iceberg. I'm abandoning ship while theres still life boats.
Don't wait, this ship WILL sink.
I was willing to pay the 1999$ even though it's still a beta software and currently a lot less powerful than unity.
The competition is charging much less, and giving us our independence. NOONE will go for this, except for craptard tweenies.
And if Drag and drop GUI is what people want, there will be programs offering this in the upcoming months. THEN what is Gamesalad to do?
They will then realize they made a terrible decision, and it will be too late to salvage anything.
Please Gamesalad, wake up before it's too late!
GS move could have been a business success if only they had listened more to their users.
For example if they made two accounts - a GameSalad one for top apps and a JohnDoe for the crApps - and if they gave us the option to pay for publishing on our own, maybe we would have less threads an posts on the matter.
For those worried about their name I have to say that they are wrong (to some extent) because in my experience I buy apps knowing who have really made them. Using chillingo as an example I know that Rovio is behind Angry Birds, Zeptolab made Cut the rope and Redshift made the "The Quest" series, and I visit their sites - not chillingo's - to know about news and updates.
The real problem about GameSalad is communication. I don't expect to know what they're up to but, as Apple do, when they give an announcement they should at least give us all the infos about it.
Many things where omitted in they're last posts and two concern me a lot that haven't been discussed there (or maybe I missed them).
1. Payments - international bank transfers are not an easy matter how they will manage them? Many companies usually have different legal entities in different zones to avoid fiscal troubles. Did they thought of that or are they thinking of using third party services like PayPal? (meaning other % lost)
2. Provisioning profiles - how will they manage them? I usually have 4 to 6 different developement profiles to test different builds at the same time on different devices (will we be limited to the viewer?)
Also we should have the possibility to edit the udid associated with the profiles for betatesting and preview builds.
I hope they soon make a big October Big Picture post to explain everything in detail.
No hidden costs
With Corona, you avoid extra charges. No revenue share requirements. No hidden fees. No watermarks — with Corona just sell your apps and reap the rewards.
Send and Receive Data using your own Server Tutorial! | Vote for A Long Way Home on Steam Greenlight! | Ten Years Left
Another good question: do you know how complicated is to made a international transfer of money? I'm a brazilian - sorry for my English - and a GameSalad fan, but I want my games on my brand! the GameSalad logo, no iAd, no external links doesn't bother me... but be a part of a company that do this kind of stuff to your clients? no way.
This would have worked. Pro is still overpriced for GS as it stands now, and as a BETA, however if 1.0 is as good as promised it would have been fair, as would up to $400 for Express.
They could have quadrupled their income from Express accounts (which I gather are by far the most common) - 1000 users would bring them $400,000 as oppose to $99,000.
I refuse to believe they need as much money as they're talking about to be profitable and successful if they've not gone under on the current scheme; this does seem to come down to pure greed.
If anyone would care to look at the definition of "Indie" - it isn't about people who make a living selling apps - it's just about those who produce an app, even a free one, independent of big corporations, a publisher, etc.
It's really sad this has happened - they could admittedly still turn it around but given that they wouldn't do it for those begging them a month ago, I doubt they'll do it for those of us who were just m'f'ing afterthoughts.
If we published under our own names, we'd have to add them in iTunesConnect to be able to access our financial reports, and they'd have to do the work to figure out how much to take from each developer's account, send us a bill (or bill us), make sure we paid, etc, etc. A lot of extra overhead on their end.
Just a thought.
iWork doesn't ask me for a percentage.
Microsoft Windows doesn't ask me for a percentage.
Gendai Games is selling software. If they want to be in the publishing business, then how are they qualified? What services are they offering? I don't see the value in what they're proposing.
**Weswog's Take on new system**
Gamesalad has made a move most of us wouldn't prefer but this might be whats necessary
This is my story of when gamesalad was old to now
I loved the tool it gave me updates then iphone publishing and everyone took it for $99 some when it was $499 and then gamesalad kept getting better and I learned so much and made more apps then this really bad/partially good thing happened and I feel like it's wrong but some people may like it.
Overall Gamesalad made a choice and everyone has to deal with it.
Also my suggestion to Gamesalad is to make express $250 for some features
Express features
*iOS Publishing
*Url fowarding
That's it then make a pro account that cost $1250 and gives you
-iOS Publishing
-iAds
-Url fowarding
-Gamecenter
-Extra support
-Testing of updates before everyone else
-No splashscreen
-Etc.
This is my take on new system and a suggestion on what to do
Cheers, Weswog
MH
$300 for a yearly GS membership with all features (no pro or express, just one payment)
For publishing you get a choice of:
-Giving your game to GS, and they get 20% of the profits after apples cut
-Paying a $150 payment for a build and being able to upload it to the appstore on your own