That's what I don't get, why did they removed the Pro membership? I mean, 99% of pro member won't accept the new terms so they are going other places. The ones that felt 1999$ as too expensive will use the new system. This way they won't loose anyone... really, how can they imagine that pro devs are willing to give them total control...
I think GS's big mistake was to price the express at $99. I can see why they had to look for a better revenue stream. It was sooo cheap.
So many lost sight of the fact that GS is amazing software, allowing them to do amazing things for practically nothing. There were strong complaints about the pricing of pro... just on and on.
After thinking about this, I guess I can understand why they are moving this way. It's still not too late to keep the Pro option... allowing independent publishing, and I hope they seriously consider doing that. Then, everyone would have options, and maybe could stop complaining.
I'm obviously not happy with this change, but now resigned to it.
__________________________
Friends sharing the "great" news about GameSalad Publisher! (warning: adult words)
Oh and another thing that really shows how bad they think about us, why didn't they give us some time to think about? They should announce the new system (using at least a decent pr statement) and they should give us 2 or 3 months when we were still able to purchase PRO. I would bought it instantly. But they where cowards, first they removed the option to buy and after they announce that's our way or the highway... pathetic and lame
tshirtbooth said: Im to blame to also. I bi**** as much as all of you. We wanted more faster. You keep saying there was other options but you dont say what they are? at 99 bucks a member how are they to keep the doors open? there are only so many people. Then there are the kids whos parents will or cant give them 200 bucks to get started. So this is a good solution ...
With that said i think they need to do 1 of 2 things.
GIVE US A GRANDFATHER CLAUSE for getting them to this point. were we can still buy our normal membership each year.
or
Still offer a pro membership.
Seems you dont read other peoples posts as much as everyone reads yours. I made my thoughts clear on what the policy should have been in more than a few threads. They should have left the Pro price at $500 until they had a product that was solid enough, and feature rich enough to warrant a 1.0 tag, at which point they could have then marketted it at a higher price that more serious developers would have been happier to buy into.
The whole mission statement of "games creation for everyone" has been their biggest problem. Aim for everyone and your targetting the lowest common denominator.... which is basically people who want entry for free, and who arent going to put the effort into producing quality products.
GameSalad mentions competitors as being Unity and Corona in its press announcements, but theyre not competitors at all, as they build a solid development tool that they know serious devs, with development budgets are going to buy.
The original dream of bringing comptetive game dev tools to the masses, and the commercial reality of how much it costs to develop those tools just dont work together.
So again...its not the communities fault here... its purely down to Gendai's choices....
As for a solution.... yup... they need to apologise to the community, and re-instate a Pro version. Until the software is out of Beta, that Pro needs to be a good deal cheaper than the previous price.
So yup...go the route theyve decided, and give people that option...but also give the more serious Devs an option where they can still publish their own stuff.
I'm also wondering how they are feeling about all the feedback. It's got to be like publishing an app and watching as negative and nasty reviews come in.
They could stop much of it with a yellow post or two.
__________________________
Friends sharing the "great" news about GameSalad Publisher! (warning: adult words)
Hey tshirt sory for that but that is not what I ment. What I can see is that GS now is for people like you who make 1 app a week so can still have a living of this and for kids that are not that into the profit and their interrest lies in impressing the friends. People like me who can not even think of creating an app, not even in 3 weeks, this just doesnt work. I Will have to see it as merely a hobby and stop looking at it as a way of making a living.
tshirtbooth said: Rob what you dont get is We were not happy with there pie for one.
Sure they could have stayed 3 guys there there moms basement building GS. What everyone B****** we dont have this we dont have that, whats taking so long. WHY cant we have fro for NOTHING! So they stepped up got some money got some new guys so they can bring us what we wanted.
Thats not Cheep, that takes money. The only way they can make sure they get there cut is to publish for us. IT was there only option to make us happy. And guess what were still not happy.
I agree 110% with you on the whole thing. BUT! If that's the case I don't mind giving a cut of profit bit they better not think it's going to be more then 5% per game plus app fees because when it comes down to it they know damn well there not going to have any issues paying there 30% to Apple if we all give 5% and are still able to develop under our own identities. Last time I checked Apple got there 30% but they supplied us with the software to program also fro free and they also release new apps in the store every Thursday I believe at least here in the US I've noticed. So unless GameSalad will be giving us new features every week which I don't think they will if they want more then 5% it's just plain greediness.
tshirtbooth said: But what you do not understand is "games development for everyone" is what keeps they different for the other guys. I love that about them.
Perhaps they need to start an new side business with the same tool only a little better and a new web site and a new forum for the people that want pro.
Your making a big assumption there, saying i dont understand it.
I completely understand what the founders original vision was....and its commendable. But the reality of it is simply that a big portion of "everyone" either doesnt want to, or cant afford to pay for the software, and support the development.... which brings us to the situation that GameSalad obviously finds itself in now.
So when they lower the barrier to entry even lower, theyre just going to attract even more people who arent going to invest in creating good apps. Its going to drive the good devs away, and theyre going to make very few of those profitable 30% royalty cuts theyre hoping for, as most of the apps wont be up to standard.
That last bit you know yourself...as you eluded to it in previous posts.
Rob2 said: it will certainly be interesting to see what this instant top publishing house think their cut should be.
It definitely will be interesting and hopefully they are paying attention to the forums and the concerns that are being discussed (albeit in a somewhat chaotic fashion). People should wait for that announcement and then see if they can work within the parameters of what is laid out. If so, great. If not, move along.
Maybe they will realize from peoples comments that they are not in the same position (yet) as a Chillingo or an EA and create a pricing structure that works for their clients (us) and will allow them to continue to stay in business.
At the end of the day it has to be mutual beneficial or they won't be around for long. All business works that way. Hey, that kind of rhymed... er, not really.
tshirtbooth said: The issue is the people that would buy pro are the main people they want the 30% from because there the money makers.
They'd rather have 30% of almost $0 since hardly any pro members will stay as opposed to $2000 from each pro member? Or even better for them, $xx per pro app released.
@TSB: These threads are moving way too quickly, and the forum software here is so rudimentary, I can't tell if you responded to any of my posts, so here goes.
Look, I've been a big and vocal GameSalad supporter since even before I bought my Express membership in January of this year. I came from iTorque 2D, where the difference was night and day in terms of one-click publishing to the device.
Both programs allowed me to create apps under my own Apple Developer ID, which I'm beginning to feel is more important than I initially thought. Apple has allowed the independent developer, the "little guy," to thrive, quite successfully on their own. And, in the future, if a publisher finds or seeks me out, values me enough, and wants to harbor my talents, they could do so by offering a fair agreement, maybe even with an advance, but they should have a proper reputation and positive track record of being able to publish people and their works successfully. Lastly, I would still have a choice on whether or not I want to have a publisher or remain independent.
You, me, and several others here have signed an NDA with GameSalad to become Sous-Chefs. Yet, I feel that we haven't been given any much more than the average user, and my multiple emails to Chuberka and Yodapollo yesterday have yet to be acknowledged or answered. Don't we all have iPhones with our emails going directly to each other? The least they could do is respond with, "let me get back to you on that." At least I feel that I'm not ignored. Also, I thought that "non-disclosure" means you would have at least enough of something not to disclose to the general public. What I believe I could say is that, even with the NDA, conversations were still very much shunted and cryptic, and even their hands seemed to be tied behind their back, too, as to what to say or what not to say.
So, I'm very concerned if this will remain as the status quo. Especially if they want to be my publisher. You just don't drop a bomb like yesterday and walk away. The silence is truly deafening, or their silence truly speaks words about their attitude towards their current customer base.
Sure, you could be willing to stick around because you have faith, but your situation may be far different than mine - I've got three kids and a wife to feed with a single income from a grunt job that's falling apart before my eyes, and I want to have something viable as a backup, maybe eventually as a primary source of income in the future. I think I have the chops to do it. I've been developing games and apps as far back as 1982 on the TRS-80 and throughout my DOS years on my trusty IBM PC AT with a whopping 8MHz Intel 80286 processor. I've made shareware games that ended up on BBS's and CD's around the world, it was lucrative, and it was a blast.
Look, I can see this whole megila work, too, but if GameSalad thinks they can step up to the plate and be worthy of a percentage, why does it take so long to do so for some of the most basic, rudimentary things like communicating with the public, replying to a simple email, providing a clear roadmap, implementing a few extra lines of code? Some things I can accept if they're understaffed or have to pass through a couple of hands before it becomes public knowledge, but I'd be surprised if you don't agree that so much of this is unacceptable at this point.
Its like the old west... and the big bad railroad baron has come into town to force everyone off their land, so a new track can be built. He ropes in few well meaning, well known townsfolk and deputises them, and gives them a nice shiny new badge to wear.
He calls a big town meeting where he gets his assistant to announce whats going on, while he sits hidden away behind big solid doors.
When the crowd understandably errupts into anger, the assistant ducks out, and leaves the slightly confused deputies there, outnumbered, to fend off the mob that were once their friends.....
So yup... even if I dont agree with some of you....i do feel for you....
I think BeyondtheTech summarized my feelings on the subject perfectly. Yesterday was a tidal wave of emotions, today I'm just lurking the forums trying to figure out what to do.
I understand their previous business model isn't profitable enough. I don't mind paying a percentage. I think it's good incentive for GS to have an active reason to want us to succeed as developers- so they make more money.
All I wanted was to keep my identity as a developer.
Eastbound said: I think BeyondtheTech summarized my feelings on the subject perfectly. Yesterday was a tidal wave of emotions, today I'm just lurking the forums trying to figure out what to do.
I understand their previous business model isn't profitable enough. I don't mind paying a percentage. I think it's good incentive for GS to have an active reason to want us to succeed as developers- so they make more money.
All I wanted was to keep my identity as a developer.
how does that work? how does UDk make sure they get there cut?
Could require you to set up them on your itunes connect to be able to pull the financials down before you can publish. Then they can bill you. All could be automated and tied to a direct debit or credit card.
how does that work? how does UDk make sure they get there cut?
Not sure if it's the same, but I have a deal with one of my apps where a certain company gets a cut of all sales. I added their financial guy in itunes connect, giving him the ability to see my financial reports. They then take there cut from there.
you turn you back for a few days and KA-SPLAT the sh*t hits the fan....
Not sure what to make of it....
Got 4 months left on my express membership, so may have to crank a few games out before the end...(Though I've been pretty slow all year...pesky life getting in the way)...
Hopefully the revenue share will be palatable enough not to be to bitter about putting in your own time and potentially give away loads of money when your app is a success...
At least you won't have to pay membership fees to GS or the Apple fee.
I wonder if GameSalad will look your games over before allowing them to be submitted to apple?
Comments
This way they won't loose anyone... really, how can they imagine that pro devs are willing to give them total control...
So many lost sight of the fact that GS is amazing software, allowing them to do amazing things for practically nothing. There were strong complaints about the pricing of pro... just on and on.
After thinking about this, I guess I can understand why they are moving this way. It's still not too late to keep the Pro option... allowing independent publishing, and I hope they seriously consider doing that. Then, everyone would have options, and maybe could stop complaining.
I'm obviously not happy with this change, but now resigned to it.
__________________________
Friends sharing the "great" news about GameSalad Publisher! (warning: adult words)
They should announce the new system (using at least a decent pr statement) and they should give us 2 or 3 months when we were still able to purchase PRO. I would bought it instantly. But they where cowards, first they removed the option to buy and after they announce that's our way or the highway... pathetic and lame
They should have left the Pro price at $500 until they had a product that was solid enough, and feature rich enough to warrant a 1.0 tag, at which point they could have then marketted it at a higher price that more serious developers would have been happier to buy into.
The whole mission statement of "games creation for everyone" has been their biggest problem. Aim for everyone and your targetting the lowest common denominator.... which is basically people who want entry for free, and who arent going to put the effort into producing quality products.
GameSalad mentions competitors as being Unity and Corona in its press announcements, but theyre not competitors at all, as they build a solid development tool that they know serious devs, with development budgets are going to buy.
The original dream of bringing comptetive game dev tools to the masses, and the commercial reality of how much it costs to develop those tools just dont work together.
So again...its not the communities fault here... its purely down to Gendai's choices....
As for a solution.... yup... they need to apologise to the community, and re-instate a Pro version. Until the software is out of Beta, that Pro needs to be a good deal cheaper than the previous price.
So yup...go the route theyve decided, and give people that option...but also give the more serious Devs an option where they can still publish their own stuff.
They could stop much of it with a yellow post or two.
__________________________
Friends sharing the "great" news about GameSalad Publisher! (warning: adult words)
Direct
$500 Grandpa
$2000 Pro Grandpa
I completely understand what the founders original vision was....and its commendable. But the reality of it is simply that a big portion of "everyone" either doesnt want to, or cant afford to pay for the software, and support the development.... which brings us to the situation that GameSalad obviously finds itself in now.
So when they lower the barrier to entry even lower, theyre just going to attract even more people who arent going to invest in creating good apps. Its going to drive the good devs away, and theyre going to make very few of those profitable 30% royalty cuts theyre hoping for, as most of the apps wont be up to standard.
That last bit you know yourself...as you eluded to it in previous posts.
Maybe they will realize from peoples comments that they are not in the same position (yet) as a Chillingo or an EA and create a pricing structure that works for their clients (us) and will allow them to continue to stay in business.
At the end of the day it has to be mutual beneficial or they won't be around for long. All business works that way. Hey, that kind of rhymed... er, not really.
Look, I've been a big and vocal GameSalad supporter since even before I bought my Express membership in January of this year. I came from iTorque 2D, where the difference was night and day in terms of one-click publishing to the device.
Both programs allowed me to create apps under my own Apple Developer ID, which I'm beginning to feel is more important than I initially thought. Apple has allowed the independent developer, the "little guy," to thrive, quite successfully on their own. And, in the future, if a publisher finds or seeks me out, values me enough, and wants to harbor my talents, they could do so by offering a fair agreement, maybe even with an advance, but they should have a proper reputation and positive track record of being able to publish people and their works successfully. Lastly, I would still have a choice on whether or not I want to have a publisher or remain independent.
You, me, and several others here have signed an NDA with GameSalad to become Sous-Chefs. Yet, I feel that we haven't been given any much more than the average user, and my multiple emails to Chuberka and Yodapollo yesterday have yet to be acknowledged or answered. Don't we all have iPhones with our emails going directly to each other? The least they could do is respond with, "let me get back to you on that." At least I feel that I'm not ignored. Also, I thought that "non-disclosure" means you would have at least enough of something not to disclose to the general public. What I believe I could say is that, even with the NDA, conversations were still very much shunted and cryptic, and even their hands seemed to be tied behind their back, too, as to what to say or what not to say.
So, I'm very concerned if this will remain as the status quo. Especially if they want to be my publisher. You just don't drop a bomb like yesterday and walk away. The silence is truly deafening, or their silence truly speaks words about their attitude towards their current customer base.
Sure, you could be willing to stick around because you have faith, but your situation may be far different than mine - I've got three kids and a wife to feed with a single income from a grunt job that's falling apart before my eyes, and I want to have something viable as a backup, maybe eventually as a primary source of income in the future. I think I have the chops to do it. I've been developing games and apps as far back as 1982 on the TRS-80 and throughout my DOS years on my trusty IBM PC AT with a whopping 8MHz Intel 80286 processor. I've made shareware games that ended up on BBS's and CD's around the world, it was lucrative, and it was a blast.
Look, I can see this whole megila work, too, but if GameSalad thinks they can step up to the plate and be worthy of a percentage, why does it take so long to do so for some of the most basic, rudimentary things like communicating with the public, replying to a simple email, providing a clear roadmap, implementing a few extra lines of code? Some things I can accept if they're understaffed or have to pass through a couple of hands before it becomes public knowledge, but I'd be surprised if you don't agree that so much of this is unacceptable at this point.
Its like the old west... and the big bad railroad baron has come into town to force everyone off their land, so a new track can be built. He ropes in few well meaning, well known townsfolk and deputises them, and gives them a nice shiny new badge to wear.
He calls a big town meeting where he gets his assistant to announce whats going on, while he sits hidden away behind big solid doors.
When the crowd understandably errupts into anger, the assistant ducks out, and leaves the slightly confused deputies there, outnumbered, to fend off the mob that were once their friends.....
So yup... even if I dont agree with some of you....i do feel for you....
I understand their previous business model isn't profitable enough. I don't mind paying a percentage. I think it's good incentive for GS to have an active reason to want us to succeed as developers- so they make more money.
All I wanted was to keep my identity as a developer.
Give us PRO, and we will Stay.
No idea if this is true, but a suggestion.
you turn you back for a few days and KA-SPLAT the sh*t hits the fan....
Not sure what to make of it....
Got 4 months left on my express membership, so may have to crank a few games out before the end...(Though I've been pretty slow all year...pesky life getting in the way)...
Hopefully the revenue share will be palatable enough not to be to bitter about putting in your own time and potentially give away loads of money when your app is a success...
At least you won't have to pay membership fees to GS or the Apple fee.
I wonder if GameSalad will look your games over before allowing them to be submitted to apple?