Sparkyidr said: I have said this many times before though...this is all assuming GS wants to compete as an SDK.. or take up residence as an entry to game making package....I suspect the latter is their main aim, which isn't great for those of us wanting to use the tool in a more professional way.
If they dont want to compete then it would be nice to be told. The complaints on the forums are from people who want to use it 'professionally' and want to see the basic features implemented that is the standard on the appstore!
With the refusal of a roadmap, barely any communication, how are WE, GameSalads customers and community supposed to know anything?
I've never known a business be so silent and secretive!
exactly. It would be nice to actually know what the plans for the tool are... just in general.
Is it going to be a viable tool for us to compete...or do we need to start looking at other options (not that I want to look at other options just yet)
Sparkyidr said: As for the splash screen.. I don't really have a big deal with it.
I have plenty of problems with the splash screen.
• GameSalad has a horrible reputation with many gamers. • Many other SDKs for iOS development have no such requirement. • It doesn't always work right. (The game starts up to a blank/white screen, looks like the app froze.)
beefy_clyro said: I've never known a business be so silent and secretive!
Heh, GameSalad could be more secretive. Example: Ask ArenaNet about the release date for Guild Wars 2. Ha ha... that game was supposed to have a beta in 2008. It's 2011, so obviously the silence is a bad thing. It shows weakness in the organization.
So, why isn't a hard date assigned to Game Center support? Apple did all of the heavy lifting? Why don't they just say, "Hey everyone... GameSalad 0.9.3 will likely have Game Center support, so get your games ready. Here's how..."
I noticed a significant downturn in development when the guy with the snake avatar left the company. Maybe it's not related, but there has to be some reason why updates went from one a month to once in a six month time-span.
xyloFUN said: I think that would restore the game industry to its rightful state (as long as Carlos & Co. don't notice)
Heh, that's a terrible plan. Carlos would probably notice. He's quite active on the Corona forums. He's a co-founder though. I think that's the problem here. No one from the GameSalad team posts with the same passion that Carlos shows... not recently anyway.
The greatest threat to GameSalad can be summed up in one word - Carlos.
I'm sure he would respond accordingly and do the same. Put an intro in all of their stuff "Made with GameSalad"
As they say: "Don't get mad, get even!"
P.S. I get a kick out of all the new users who steadily pop up (look at the bottom of page). None of them talks here in the forum ... they just sign up ... creepy
It's not so creepy. I found that I'm more productive when I stay off this forum. Perhaps that's what the GameSalad team is doing. What would you rather have... a response or results?
Photics said:What would you rather have... a response or results?
THAT says it all!
I suppose that most of us would like both but right now, which one are we getting? The next update is tba After upgrading to the 0.9.1 version, Apple, for the first time, rejected my app because there was no sound ... which, if your app is supposed to be an instrument, is a bit of a problem.
My app is "in review" since last Friday .... i am not in the best of moods until i get good news from Apple.
tenrdrmerMember, Sous Chef, Senior Sous-ChefPosts: 9,934
beefy_clyro said: If they dont want to compete then it would be nice to be told. The complaints on the forums are from people who want to use it 'professionally' and want to see the basic features implemented that is the standard on the appstore!
With the refusal of a roadmap, barely any communication, how are WE, GameSalads customers and community supposed to know anything?
I've never known a business be so silent and secretive!
I dont believe game salad ever has or plans to be a "Professional" tool. the point was to provide a tool everyone else can use. have some professional apps come out this tool sure. but if you are a professional and you have lost clients because your only options for apps is a gamesalad and they don't want a splash. Then i'm sorry but you have no businesses calling yourself a professional.
I think its great when someone can contract creating an app and it is something they can use with gamesalad. but if you cant and you lose the deal because gamesalad is your only option thats your fault for limiting yourself to a tool that cannot serve all of your needs. use gamesalad when you can and when you can't charge a little more and build it from code. otherwise quite whining because gamesalads lack of abilities cost you a deal. it's not gamesalad its your lack of abilities that cost you the deal. GameSalad can be your preferred tool but it shouldn't be your only tool if you intend to make apps for hire.
tenrdrmer said: I dont believe game salad ever has or plans to be a "Professional" tool. the point was to provide a tool everyone else can use. have some professional apps come out this tool sure. but if you are a professional and you have lost clients because your only options for apps is a gamesalad and they don't want a splash. Then i'm sorry but you have no businesses calling yourself a professional.
I think its great when someone can contract creating an app and it is something they can use with gamesalad. but if you cant and you lose the deal because gamesalad is your only option thats your fault for limiting yourself to a tool that cannot serve all of your needs. use gamesalad when you can and when you can't charge a little more and build it from code. otherwise quite whining because gamesalads lack of abilities cost you a deal. it's not gamesalad its your lack of abilities that cost you the deal. GameSalad can be your preferred tool but it shouldn't be your only tool if you intend to make apps for hire.
Oh totally agree. Define professional though? I haven't yet, and have no intentions in this matter of time, to make apps for clients. I want to do games for myself, this is because i always dreamed as a kid to make a game. I achieved that last year, was it the best? Heck no, did i stop there? No, i made more games and with each game i released, they got better and something new, something i couldnt do before was added. With every game i release, i strive to make it better than the last, and i love doing this all within GameSalad. I dont care what they call it, basic, pro, enterprise, bananas and monkeys, name it what you like, my point is, to make our games better, GameSalad's name and reputation better, standard features by Apple such as game center is simply a must!
tenrdrmer said: I dont believe game salad ever has or plans to be a "Professional" tool. the point was to provide a tool everyone else can use.
Then what was their thinking in releasing a higher tiered version and calling it "Pro" or "Professional"?
Appealing to, and having professional users was most definately a part of their plan... they just dont seem to understand how to cater to that section of the community.
The original Pro did what it was meant to...it gave professional users the ability to produce apps for clients, and many users were willing to pay the higher fee to do so. For some reason Gendai/GameSalad then decided to make a huge turnaround and abandon the true professional users.
I dont know what GameSalads plans are...or who they want to appeal to anymore... I get the feeling they dont really know themselves anymore.
I do know that if you look at any other successful development tool, they all have Professional level users within their ranks... thats developers that are investing both in the software, their own games and the reputation of both. No matter how we like to think that a hit can come from anywhere, its a proven reality that its more likely going to come from a developer/studio that has both the resources and the funding to make a quality game. By cutting out these developers GameSalad loses solid revenue, and potential games that are more likely to bring the tool more widespread use and reputation.
So to say the software is just for amateurs, and was always meant to be just doesnt make sense...
There were true Pro accounts and Pro users... just somewhere along the line they got turned on, and were given the shitty end of the stick.
Oh... and a slightly different example of where GameSalad are losing out. Ive been commisioned to design and put together a game for one of my clients that I regularly do artwork for. Theyre happy for me to build the game in GameSalad... but theyre going to then completely rewrite it in code. Its not because they think they'll get a better game in code.. Its because they dont want the GameSalad loading screen, dont want to be associated with the GameSalad reputation and would prefer to have some sort of leaderboards. My client are happy for me to build the game first in GameSalad simply due to its prototyping speed... so it saves them money in the long run.
So Im building a game, and building it to Professional standards...getting paid well for it...but its never going to see the light of day with GameSalad branding. No one will ever know the tool was involved.
Ive seen similar things mentioned elsewhere on the forums.... people are using the tool to prototype, but then rewriting/rebuilding the final game in another tool/language to publish.... then often stating they switched from GameSalad due to its issues...
How can that be in GameSalads best interest?
The software is capable enough to be used in a Professional setting... just GameSalad seem to have turned on its developers that are wanting to do so.
joshmiller602 said: I think the memberships should be as follows:
BASIC (Free): - Splash Screen-YES - URL's- NO
PROFESSIONAL ($499): - Splash Screen, URL's
EXPERT ($999) Splash Screen-NO URL-YES GameCenter-YES Social Networking-YES
A 3-Tiered system for those who want more. That way they aren't giving it away and have more of a direct incentive to make it available ASAP.
As GS has stated in the past, they are trying to price their products competitively, so if they just leave the current pricing tiers the same, but load up the "Pro" version with all the much-wanted features, all the serious developers would buy the Pro for the low price of $500, which would increase GameSalad's popularity immensely. With the FREE version of GS, new Apple Developers could try their hand at game developing without breaking the bank, that way if they want to begin developing apps for Apple, they will probably want to buy the Pro version so they can have all the features it comes with.
Ok this is my opinion. Please don't harsh on me for this either. I think we should match corona. Its obvious many leave Gamesalad to corona because of the features they have and we don't. We should try to at least keep up with them so we don't give them a reason (them meaning devs) to hate GS. That way, we can say we have what they have, AND a drag and drop system. which THEY are working on. once that happens, GS is going to be hurting. I am not a paying member right now, I will be honest, BUT GS gives me NO reason to pay as of now. Ads that don't do THAT well and some links. thats it? So I would lower the price just a LITTLE bit and add some more features.
again thats just MY opinion so don't get mad at me DL
joshmiller602 said: A 3-Tiered system for those who want more.
That would be a disaster and a great way to assure that I don't renew my subscription. $500 a year is not cheap and anything higher is certainly not competitive.
I think GameSalad is comparable to Artisteer. They're both applications to make a complicated task really easy. How much is Artisteer? It's currently $49.95 (basic) or $129.95 (full). If you don't renew your upgrades at the end of the year, you can still use the current version.
Game Center should be a Pro feature. There should not be a three-tier pricing system.
Also, I noticed how you didn't mention iAds. That's because the feature is close to worthless. What exactly is $499 a year getting developers? Hyperlinks?! That's absurd!
GameSalad should encourage hyperlinks. I had to pay $499 to link to The Unofficial GameSalad Textbook, which is also good promotion for GameSalad.
GameSalad should encourage developers to link to other GameSalad games.
It's approximately $1.25 per sale of the textbook through Apple's iTunes affiliate program. That's extra money for developers!
So, by removing the splash screen for pro users, adding hyperlinks for all users, GameSalad could basically accomplish the same result without annoying developers... while giving developers a better reason to upgrade to pro.
The only reason I bought the Pro subscription this year was because I was a previous "Express" member last year and I took advantage of the $99.00 upgrade offer. Unless GS comes out with some amazing new Pro features, I can pretty much guarantee I will NOT be renewing my Pro subscription at the end of the year, and just stick to the FREE version until they do release some much-wanted features.
@ Photics, yes, the Artisteer comparison fits well (and the user base is about the same because before Artisteer3 was released, the forum flared up the same way as we did before 0.9.1).
I do not expect anything for free. This month, I bought a CAD program, Project Messiah5 and Corona so by all means, GS should charge $49.98 for their entry level version but NO MORE than $100 to 200 for a loaded version.
The opening blurb should have died a few months ago or better yet, never have been born because it only puts $$$ in the competitions pockets who already do well! $500 I can only see if i get the privilege to compile on my machine. If/when GS folds (you all know the odds of startups) all of our work is gone out the door. Imagine ... no updates, no loading up old projects to tweak something. No selling of a game to someone else!
Compiling locally and by doing so, being able to use what ever version i want for as long as i see fit would be worth money! Everything else, not!
Photics said: That is a big concern with GameSalad. What happens if the software dies? Unlike Artisteer, GameSalad is fairly worthless if the company goes under.
Only open communication from "them" can assure us that the compass is pointing the right way! So why oh why are they not warming up to us? We are not ugly people
Getting bored of checking for any kind of official word from anyone
As for Pro features.....It's always been a bit thin on the ground. Ads and URL linking are all well and good...but do they constitute the "Pro" tag?
iAds is a bit of a strange one for me. I've tried it out, and didn't really like the performance hit my games took as the system loaded and displayed an Ad. Have only made aorund $95 in a month on it too. Probably about the same if I had put those free games as 59p/99c paid ones....who knows.
I'm sure if you had an app getting a shed load of downloads it could well pay off nicely....but they way I see it, if something is good enough to get THAT many downloads, you would probably earn just as much with having it as a paid app. (I might be wrong)
Linking...yeah, I can see the benefit of linking in a free app to the paid version. I've been using it as a cross selling tool in my games, but not sure it's really all that effective as so. A more useful pro feature, would be in app purchasing. Then you only need 1 version of the app...then IAP removes the adds, or upgrades to the full version. Also, stops clogging up the store with lite versions and the like.
As for the other pro feature...I've never had call to use it I guess....anyone else?
I'm not whinging too much, as I got the $99 upgrade after all the GSDirect stuff...and I would have re-newed my old $99 express anyway.
But it sucks that in 1/2 of the time of a sub, we have had hardly any updates, and no new pro features.
I'd like to hope they do know what they are doing. They have had the cash injection a while ago, and are hiring...so things must be going ok at least you would think.
They do desperately seem to need some sort of community manager though, surely? the silence is deafening. I for one am loving the new age of greater communication from the GS team...................... ;o)
I kind of hate how we aways go over this ground, but with no feedback we are always going to speculate over the same things again and again.
.....Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...
Sparkyidr said: .....Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...
I will make it my life's mission to Never EVER let you go to mount Splashmore. As long as I may live, you shall never go there!HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAAHelevenHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA
Comments
With the refusal of a roadmap, barely any communication, how are WE, GameSalads customers and community supposed to know anything?
I've never known a business be so silent and secretive!
exactly. It would be nice to actually know what the plans for the tool are... just in general.
Is it going to be a viable tool for us to compete...or do we need to start looking at other options
(not that I want to look at other options just yet)
The usual silence prevails though....
• GameSalad has a horrible reputation with many gamers.
• Many other SDKs for iOS development have no such requirement.
• It doesn't always work right.
(The game starts up to a blank/white screen, looks like the app froze.) Heh, GameSalad could be more secretive. Example: Ask ArenaNet about the release date for Guild Wars 2. Ha ha... that game was supposed to have a beta in 2008. It's 2011, so obviously the silence is a bad thing. It shows weakness in the organization.
So, why isn't a hard date assigned to Game Center support? Apple did all of the heavy lifting? Why don't they just say, "Hey everyone... GameSalad 0.9.3 will likely have Game Center support, so get your games ready. Here's how..."
I noticed a significant downturn in development when the guy with the snake avatar left the company. Maybe it's not related, but there has to be some reason why updates went from one a month to once in a six month time-span.
1) Make the intro 22 seconds long (with LOUD distorted metal shred junk)
2) Display "Made with Corona"
I think that would restore the game industry to its rightful state (as long as Carlos & Co. don't notice)
See ... there is a fix for everything!
The greatest threat to GameSalad can be summed up in one word - Carlos.
As they say: "Don't get mad, get even!"
P.S. I get a kick out of all the new users who steadily pop up (look at the bottom of page). None of them talks here in the forum ... they just sign up ... creepy
I suppose that most of us would like both but right now, which one are we getting? The next update is tba
After upgrading to the 0.9.1 version, Apple, for the first time, rejected my app because there was no sound ... which, if your app is supposed to be an instrument, is a bit of a problem.
My app is "in review" since last Friday .... i am not in the best of moods until i get good news from Apple.
I think its great when someone can contract creating an app and it is something they can use with gamesalad. but if you cant and you lose the deal because gamesalad is your only option thats your fault for limiting yourself to a tool that cannot serve all of your needs. use gamesalad when you can and when you can't charge a little more and build it from code. otherwise quite whining because gamesalads lack of abilities cost you a deal. it's not gamesalad its your lack of abilities that cost you the deal. GameSalad can be your preferred tool but it shouldn't be your only tool if you intend to make apps for hire.
Appealing to, and having professional users was most definately a part of their plan... they just dont seem to understand how to cater to that section of the community.
The original Pro did what it was meant to...it gave professional users the ability to produce apps for clients, and many users were willing to pay the higher fee to do so. For some reason Gendai/GameSalad then decided to make a huge turnaround and abandon the true professional users.
I dont know what GameSalads plans are...or who they want to appeal to anymore... I get the feeling they dont really know themselves anymore.
I do know that if you look at any other successful development tool, they all have Professional level users within their ranks... thats developers that are investing both in the software, their own games and the reputation of both. No matter how we like to think that a hit can come from anywhere, its a proven reality that its more likely going to come from a developer/studio that has both the resources and the funding to make a quality game. By cutting out these developers GameSalad loses solid revenue, and potential games that are more likely to bring the tool more widespread use and reputation.
So to say the software is just for amateurs, and was always meant to be just doesnt make sense...
There were true Pro accounts and Pro users... just somewhere along the line they got turned on, and were given the shitty end of the stick.
Oh... and a slightly different example of where GameSalad are losing out. Ive been commisioned to design and put together a game for one of my clients that I regularly do artwork for. Theyre happy for me to build the game in GameSalad... but theyre going to then completely rewrite it in code. Its not because they think they'll get a better game in code.. Its because they dont want the GameSalad loading screen, dont want to be associated with the GameSalad reputation and would prefer to have some sort of leaderboards. My client are happy for me to build the game first in GameSalad simply due to its prototyping speed... so it saves them money in the long run.
So Im building a game, and building it to Professional standards...getting paid well for it...but its never going to see the light of day with GameSalad branding. No one will ever know the tool was involved.
Ive seen similar things mentioned elsewhere on the forums.... people are using the tool to prototype, but then rewriting/rebuilding the final game in another tool/language to publish.... then often stating they switched from GameSalad due to its issues...
How can that be in GameSalads best interest?
The software is capable enough to be used in a Professional setting... just GameSalad seem to have turned on its developers that are wanting to do so.
BASIC (Free):
- Splash Screen-YES
- URL's- NO
PROFESSIONAL ($499):
- Splash Screen, URL's
EXPERT ($999)
Splash Screen-NO
URL-YES
GameCenter-YES
Social Networking-YES
A 3-Tiered system for those who want more. That way they aren't giving it away and have more of a direct incentive to make it available ASAP.
DL
- Alex
again thats just MY opinion so don't get mad at me
DL
I think GameSalad is comparable to Artisteer. They're both applications to make a complicated task really easy. How much is Artisteer? It's currently $49.95 (basic) or $129.95 (full). If you don't renew your upgrades at the end of the year, you can still use the current version.
Game Center should be a Pro feature. There should not be a three-tier pricing system.
Also, I noticed how you didn't mention iAds. That's because the feature is close to worthless. What exactly is $499 a year getting developers? Hyperlinks?! That's absurd!
GameSalad should encourage hyperlinks. I had to pay $499 to link to The Unofficial GameSalad Textbook, which is also good promotion for GameSalad.
GameSalad should encourage developers to link to other GameSalad games.
It's approximately $1.25 per sale of the textbook through Apple's iTunes affiliate program. That's extra money for developers!
http://www.apple.com/itunes/affiliates/
So, by removing the splash screen for pro users, adding hyperlinks for all users, GameSalad could basically accomplish the same result without annoying developers... while giving developers a better reason to upgrade to pro.
- Alex
yes, the Artisteer comparison fits well (and the user base is about the same because before Artisteer3 was released, the forum flared up the same way as we did before 0.9.1).
I do not expect anything for free. This month, I bought a CAD program, Project Messiah5 and Corona so by all means, GS should charge $49.98 for their entry level version but NO MORE than $100 to 200 for a loaded version.
The opening blurb should have died a few months ago or better yet, never have been born because it only puts $$$ in the competitions pockets who already do well!
$500 I can only see if i get the privilege to compile on my machine.
If/when GS folds (you all know the odds of startups) all of our work is gone out the door. Imagine ... no updates, no loading up old projects to tweak something. No selling of a game to someone else!
Compiling locally and by doing so, being able to use what ever version i want for as long as i see fit would be worth money! Everything else, not!
How much is your time worth?
So why oh why are they not warming up to us?
We are not ugly people
As for Pro features.....It's always been a bit thin on the ground.
Ads and URL linking are all well and good...but do they constitute the "Pro" tag?
iAds is a bit of a strange one for me. I've tried it out, and didn't really like the performance hit my games took as the system loaded and displayed an Ad. Have only made aorund $95 in a month on it too. Probably about the same if I had put those free games as 59p/99c paid ones....who knows.
I'm sure if you had an app getting a shed load of downloads it could well pay off nicely....but they way I see it, if something is good enough to get THAT many downloads, you would probably earn just as much with having it as a paid app. (I might be wrong)
Linking...yeah, I can see the benefit of linking in a free app to the paid version. I've been using it as a cross selling tool in my games, but not sure it's really all that effective as so. A more useful pro feature, would be in app purchasing. Then you only need 1 version of the app...then IAP removes the adds, or upgrades to the full version. Also, stops clogging up the store with lite versions and the like.
As for the other pro feature...I've never had call to use it I guess....anyone else?
I'm not whinging too much, as I got the $99 upgrade after all the GSDirect stuff...and I would have re-newed my old $99 express anyway.
But it sucks that in 1/2 of the time of a sub, we have had hardly any updates, and no new pro features.
I'd like to hope they do know what they are doing. They have had the cash injection a while ago, and are hiring...so things must be going ok at least you would think.
They do desperately seem to need some sort of community manager though, surely? the silence is deafening.
I for one am loving the new age of greater communication from the GS team...................... ;o)
I kind of hate how we aways go over this ground, but with no feedback we are always going to speculate over the same things again and again.
.....Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...Will you take us to mount Splashmore?...
etc
http://www.spritedeck.com/
Some have use it?
It generates the code for placing your objects in a "scene", but you still need to code everything else.
There is also a free one called Gumbo (I think).