I would love camera access and to be able to save and call on pictures. It may not seem very game related but I have lots of ideas that would greatly benefit from the camera or even just in app screen grabbing to a gallery or the picture real.
jonmulcahy said: this thread is not a discussion of what corona offers, that belongs over on the corona forums. this thread was to talk about gamecenter, which is turning into this years iAds. GameCenter WILL NOT increase your sales. you need a good game to do that. All it will do is help entice people to keep coming back, and generate more awareness of your game.
keep it on track or I'm going to close it. if you want to talk about corona, they have their own forums.
As consumers why would we go talk on the Corona forums about Corona features if we use GameSalad? It's a part of business, if consumers of a product aren't happy then they'll most likely complain to the people who make it, not the competition itself... I don't get why people are so sensitive on here. I don't think anyone can argue that off FEATURES Corona is not ahead by a longshot. However, because GS is drag and drop and uses no coding it gives it an edge over Corona for most of us here.
Also, for you to say that GameCenter won't increase sales is a) false and b) not the point of this thread. Nobody is saying "Hey my games don't sell why don't we have GameCenter so I can make the next Angry Birds?" It's just more like "Okay well this is a major feature of iOS games so why don't we have it? And you said "All it will do is help entice people to keep coming back, and generate more awareness of your game." HELLO, thats kinda a BIG DEAL...
Sous-chefs: While I personally don't have a problem with the current discussion, could we maybe truncate this thread by moving it over into the miscellaneous or New Features section and then terminating this one? The content being discussed doesn't really belong in the 'Working with GameSalad' channel.
Generating game awareness is a lot of the battle. As more apps hit the iTunes awareness through the noise gets tougher. Any help in that area is a big +.
IMO: GS features v Corona features is a legitimate discussion, but not the one this thread was generated for.
Emrys said: IMO: GS features v Corona features is a legitimate discussion, but not the one this thread was generated for.
Here's a synopsis of this thread...
• The main topic of this thread is about Game Center, and that it should be released soon! • Game Center is a great feature for iOS apps • Game Center games can be more popular than those without it. • I think it should be easy to add Game Center. • It takes 14 minutes in Xcode to add Game Center. • Like it or not Corona is a competitor to GameSalad. • Competition effects the future of this software. • Carlos, co-founder of Ansca Mobile knows this. • He announced that Game Center support is coming. • If GameSalad doesn't stay competitive, and it goes out of business, our game projects go down with it.
Is "Working with GameSalad" the best forum for this thread? Perhaps "New Features" might make more sense. It doesn't matter to me. I've said what needs to be said. I'm planning to take a break from the forums once the contest is over.
Rob2 said: just because something might take 14 minutes in xcode bears no relation to how long it might take to incorporate into GS
I think it's relevant. But if it is or isn't, that doesn't matter. The competition is working on it.
As for things like os.time... that's a simple device attribute. We're denied access to simple things like that because novice users might be confused by Unix time...
1298904242
I know what that means. Should I be denied access to such information because it's not so user friendly?
This is something relevant to the "Working with GameSalad" forum. I don't like that it tries to hide everything. Having the option to use code... and then share that code with the rest of the community... is useful.
I like the idea of being able to make custom behaviors. Open it up for those that can program.
There's a perception that GameSalad is not for professional developers, that it's a toy. To fight that, the software needs some more options... more power. This is an excellent community. Not everyone here can code, but there are some that can.
This hits at the very philosophy of GameSalad. There are some features we don't have because the main objective is to make the software easy to use. If that's truly the main reason for the delay in Game Center, then I think it's a good topic of discussion for the community.
What if GameSalad had custom coding options or somewhat more complex behaviors? Would that be so bad? I don't think so. The alternative is sending customers to the competition, which is worse!
Photics said: There's a perception that GameSalad is not for professional developers, that it's a toy. To fight that, the software needs some more options... more power. This is an excellent community. Not everyone here can code, but there are some that can.
True, but that is not who GameSalad's core audience is, or ever has been and I don't believe they try and hide it.
I code and I still come here because it is a nice change from having to worry about all every little thing that comes along with having a blank slate of a code IDE in front of you. Sometimes simpler is nice.
Again, I know that if I want to get into the code or do something that GS can't, that there are other options available... It's simply about using the right tool for the job. GS has never stated that this is a 'professional' coder's tool...
Rattlehead said: True, but that is not who GameSalad's core audience is, or ever has been and I don't believe they try and hide it.
I don't think it's a bad philosophy. It's what separates GameSalad from the competitors. But the problem for GameSalad is progress. The competition is working on a visual editor. (Well, third-parties are. It's what happens when add-ons are supported.)
That's why I think compromise is important. There's a perception that GameSalad is where you go if you're just starting out, but then you have to move into more advanced tools as you grow. Is that the focus for GameSalad? Is it iOS Developing 101, but then after the semester is over you need to buy something else?
I don't think it should be that way and I don't think the GameSalad team thinks that way either. They use the word "Professional", which shows their intention.
Somewhere in Austin Texas, they must have some pretty interesting debates about this.
Photics said: Is it iOS Developing 101, but then after the semester is over you need to buy something else?
Personally, I don't see that as the case for the average developer that we see on the boards. Yes, there are a lot of people who come on here who have just bought their first smart phone and are curious as to how it works or have dreams about making it big on the App Store... for those people, I think that GS is a great starting place.
There are also those developers that get their feet wet with GS and are always anxious to 'do more' and when GS can't meet their requirements, they may move on. Hopefully even those developers realize that you can always come back and use GS when it makes sense. That is what baffles me about so many of these comments. There is no silver bullet when it comes to development and that is why we have so much selection. While I can totally feel the same levels of frustration with how slow GS is to advance or communicate their progress to the community, everyone has to realize that there is choice. Personally, I like GS for what it is and while I hope to see it continually move forward, I am not going to wait on them. Instead I will develop with what tool fits at the moment and move on with the hopes of returning to a favourite tool down the road when it matures.
It's a fact of life as a developer that purchasing multiple tools is a reality. There were tons of times when I had wished that Delphi would catch up to the rest of the tools in the market. And when it didn't I moved on to Java and VB. And when those tools didn't meet my needs, I went out and bought .NET and an MSDN subscription. I will bet that a lot of developers end up in this boat at some time in their career or another.
I don't see game developers as being any different.
cbowers428 said: As consumers why would we go talk on the Corona forums about Corona features if we use GameSalad? It's a part of business, if consumers of a product aren't happy then they'll most likely complain to the people who make it, not the competition itself... I don't get why people are so sensitive on here. I don't think anyone can argue that off FEATURES Corona is not ahead by a longshot. However, because GS is drag and drop and uses no coding it gives it an edge over Corona for most of us here.
Also, for you to say that GameCenter won't increase sales is a) false and b) not the point of this thread. Nobody is saying "Hey my games don't sell why don't we have GameCenter so I can make the next Angry Birds?" It's just more like "Okay well this is a major feature of iOS games so why don't we have it? And you said "All it will do is help entice people to keep coming back, and generate more awareness of your game." HELLO, thats kinda a BIG DEAL...
If you want to talk about all the features of corona, go do it over on their forums. This forum is for discussion and usage of gamesalad. It's very simple. The occasional comparison is fine, but when people are constantly posting videos on how to use corona, or how their features are implemented, it just does not belong here.
And like i said before, game center will NOT help you sell more copies. No one buys a game because it has game center. It's just an added perk to keep people playing it. Is that grea? Of course, but some people here think it's a magic tool to sell copies of their game. It's not going to happen. The same thing happened with iAds. People thought it was going to make them millions! They thought they could release a free crppy game with iAds and then make money off of the proceeds. Go back and so a search. Except in the case of a few people who have some really good games out there, IAds is making people about 10-15 dollars a month, if they are lucky.
jonmulcahy said: And like i said before, game center will NOT help you sell more copies. No one buys a game because it has game center. It's just an added perk to keep people playing it. Is that grea? Of course, but some people here think it's a magic tool to sell copies of their game. It's not going to happen. The same thing happened with iAds. People thought it was going to make them millions! They thought they could release a free crppy game with iAds and then make money off of the proceeds. Go back and so a search. Except in the case of a few people who have some really good games out there, IAds is making people about 10-15 dollars a month, if they are lucky.
Nobody here is saying it's gonna help sell more copies so why do you keep saying that? I literally just said nobody believes they're gonna hit number 1 because of GameCenter. And in my personal case I'm not demanding anything is added to GS. I just want them to be up front about their situation instead of leaving everything so up in the air. That is all.
jonmulcahy said: And like i said before, game center will NOT help you sell more copies. No one buys a game because it has game center. It's just an added perk to keep people playing it.
It's not just an added perk. It's a marketing tool. I think that little Game Center icon on the app listing can make a big difference. When I buy apps, I usually look for it. One of the reasons I bought "Tiny Wings" is because Game Center is supposed to be added with the next update. One of the reasons I still play "Fruit Ninja" is Game Center, especially the multiplayer features.
And if your games use iAds, it can increase your revenue. The more people play your games, the more advertisements are displayed. The more advertisements that are displayed, the more money you can make.
Game Center and iAds complement each other.
jonmulcahy said: The same thing happened with iAds. People thought it was going to make them millions!
I thought iAds would do better, but I was aware that it could be a flop. I wanted to test it for myself. With the $99 upgrade price, I was able to run that test.
I have made advertisement based games. They were successful... and far more popular. The biggest game I made was an android game. If I had the advertisement solution figured out, I probably wouldn't be here today.
Even though Google bought them out, I'm considering using AdMob again. It worked well for me. The real reason for the failure of iAds is not GameSalad, it's not GameSalad developers. It's Apple itself. The fill rates are terrible.
cbowers428 said: Nobody here is saying it's gonna help sell more copies so why do you keep saying that? I literally just said nobody believes they're gonna hit number 1 because of GameCenter. And in my personal case I'm not demanding anything is added to GS. I just want them to be up front about their situation instead of leaving everything so up in the air. That is all.
Ive seen it many times that people believe adding game center will increase sales. Someone even said it on page 6 of this thread.
no need to argue because GS is growing in popularity at an alarming rate! while we are discussing unworthy things, the forum has gained over 1000 new members! THAT is so impressive.
I am sure that the majority of those new members bought the pro version ($500 x 1000) so GS is doing very well!
The only thing that makes me feel bad is that once I got going with GS, i still had to come on here asking basic questions, especially during the beginning, when I was working on my first app! GS is now so easy to use that 99.9 % of newcomers get it instantly ... and not just that, they also know how to set up the Apple side of things and unlike me, publish with no problems.
I say freeze the development and release it as the real thing. Version 1
jonmulcahy said: Ive seen it many times that people believe adding game center will increase sales. Someone even said it on page 6 of this thread.
Yeah, that part's wrong. On this page I wrote that Game Center can help with marketing, which basically means it could help with sales.
I'm thinking Game Center could increase my game sales. That's not the main reason why I want to add it though. I think it could make my games more fun.
When I sit on the couch at night, watching TV, I like to play games on my iPhone. The games I like to play usually have Game Center. I think it would be fun to play against other players in a game that I made.
xyloFUN said: no need to argue because GS is growing in popularity at an alarming rate! while we are discussing unworthy things, the forum has gained over 1000 new members! THAT is so impressive.
I don't know if that's alarming. How many of those 51,000+ members are active? How many of them will buy the pro version?
xyloFUN said: I say freeze the development and release it as the real thing. Version 1
If they did that, I could bring back the printed version of my book. I'm not sure GameSalad is ready yet. Although, for 1.0, it's really good. That's probably a good topic for another thread. What does GameSalad need before it can leave beta?
Speaking of "bring back" ... after much consideration, I believe the price tag of $1999 is more than reasonable! So hopefully, the price will be adjusted accordingly.
Like you, I too have suggestions for improvement and my idea is to give us an option for a "closing splash screen". This way, there is a little bit more continuity because the game ends kind of like it starts. Except the wording needs to be changed to: "You just fed your inner game designer. Eat more tomorrow!"
I'm going to have to chime in here. It's been a while for me here because I've simply moved on to Corona, but I check back to see if there has been any decent progress on GameSalad's front. But, I agree with Jon in that fair comparison without posting videos or recruiting should be the limit of these posts.
So, here's my take:
As a Sous-Chef, I supposedly had an inside track to the dev cycle and better contact with people inside the GameSalad company. When I was occasionally able to get the momentary attention of an actual person, I felt there was way too much red tape and closed doors for it to be useful. There's not much more I can say without violating NDA, so I'll leave it at that.
I bought Corona over six months ago, but I actually shelved it for a while because I was both very hopeful for GameSalad and because I felt that I had a "programmer's block," especially with a "new" language like Lua. However, once I started playing around, I was determined to take it on, full-speed ahead.
Forgive my memory, but it may have been Photics who mentioned that it's been six months since GameSalad issued an update to their game development kit (GDK). For those doing their math, that's half the length of your paid subscription. If you still feel comfortable in coughing upwards of $499 a few months from now with little new to show for it, other than a new GUI, a new logo, pause, and a few other tidbits, well, then, more power to you. My situation is unique where my family and financial situation is involved, and I couldn't wait any longer.
Mind you, I used to be loyal to the point where I wasn't loyal to myself. Not that I'm hating on GameSalad, but I do have one goal: to get out of a failing full-time job and freelance instead. The company I am working for full-time, has just been acquired, and I am due to lose my job within three months. But the idea of freelancing and the booming careers in mobile development have shifted my sails to end the rat race once and for all.
Like a few of you, I, too, have been approached by publishing companies, financiers, and just people with ideas, but the limit I had was the tools I was working with, particularly GameSalad. As I stated before, I even applied to GameSalad in the dual hope that I could make a difference in the company for the direction and speed of the platform, and also to land a stable job. Yes, that would have included uprooting my entire family, wife and three kids, as far away from New Jersey to Austin, TX, because I believed. But, like many correspondences to and from GameSalad, even talks with executive members just fell by the wayside without nary a word. If I got as high as that and still couldn't get any headway, I had to seriously rethink my future with GameSalad as a developer and paid subscriber.
So, I dusted off that purchase of Corona and played with it for the last two months. My previous coding experience was many flavors of BASIC: QBASIC, QuickBASIC/QBX, NS/BASIC, Visual BASIC, and then I ventured off with C in Game Editor, and into TorqueScript in iTorque 2D. In honesty, Lua didn't seem that far off from what I already knew, and the rest is just syntax. The juices started flowing, and with the sample code, I was off and running.
But, as I inevitably hit a few roadblocks on the way, I reached out to Ansca, the people behind Corona. To my surprise, I was able to speak with the support team directly! From group webcasts, to email correspondences, to private Skype chats for hours at a time, I never felt that they were more than arms-length away to assist me. That doesn't even include the active forum and often updated code exchange section, where lots of bits of goodies are just waiting to be used. While that's the tip of the iceberg...
* There's also a bug tracker database.
* There's a detailed roadmap.
* There's a blog.
* There's tweets of progress, teasers, snapshots, and the like.
* Lastly, there are daily builds of the engine. Daily. And their development methods are smooth enough that adding or fixing one thing doesn't end up breaking another.
But, as it's been debated above, it's not *just* the number of features that a game development platform has. It's also the content of your game. You can't blame the dancing shoes if you've got two left feet. But, I also know that some core features are required if you're going to compete with the big boys.
So, I started with a simple premise for a game about a month ago, and all the coding is basically done. Now, all I'm doing is levels and tweaking. But, I've got a ton of features that I've always wanted to incorporate into a game, nearly all of which cannot be done with the current GameSalad engine. Sometimes, I felt like I kept tacking on these features almost out of spite that I couldn't do it before, but as I stated, I want these features, not as a developer, but as a gamer. Thankfully, Corona's SDK allowed me to do that, and with Game Center on the horizon, that's just another valuable bullet point on my product page on the App Store.
I will always have a cozy place for GameSalad in my heart, and it will be interesting to see what has come about in a few months' time. I've given my remaining GameSalad Pro license to my daughter so she can learn basic game development and programming logic, but as for me, it's been quite an interesting ride here, and I do wish the best for the folks behind the engine, as well as those who continue to use the engine to the best of its abilities.
xyloFUN said: Speaking of "bring back" ... after much consideration, I believe the price tag of $1999 is more than reasonable! So hopefully, the price will be adjusted accordingly.
That's madness! I even think $500 a year is a bit too high.
Later this year I'll have to make that decision. Do I want to pay $499 a year? Right now, I'm thinking I won't renew my subscription. But if GameSalad suddenly gets in-app purchases, Game Center, more access to iOS hardware and removes the splashscreen for professional subscribers... $499 is not too bad.
I think they'd be more competitive with a lower price and I think they'd increase exposure if GameSalad was available on the Mac App Store. I'm not sure if the Mac App Store supports subscriptions like iOS though.
My problem is that I don't like feeling limited by the tool. Last year, GameSalad impressed me. I felt a struggle to keep up... like with the iPad launch. Heh, that was great fun. A surge of strong updates would re-energize this community.
There's a part of the debate that says, "But you can make games like Bumps and Grizzly Mansion with GameSalad." Wouldn't those games be better with more features?
Rattlehead said: True, but that is not who GameSalad's core audience is, or ever has been and I don't believe they try and hide it.
I code and I still come here because it is a nice change from having to worry about all every little thing that comes along with having a blank slate of a code IDE in front of you. Sometimes simpler is nice.
Again, I know that if I want to get into the code or do something that GS can't, that there are other options available... It's simply about using the right tool for the job. GS has never stated that this is a 'professional' coder's tool...
Theyve always had professional developers in mind... maybe not specifically coders, but definately designers and artists. Otherwise how can you explain the pricing structure, and the higher tier being called "Professional".
The argument that the software was always just meant for amateurs and kids really annoys me, as its just completely untrue.
GS has always wanted to appeal to a wide an audience as possible... thats why it has the entry level package, and then it has the higher tier package that was meant to be for developers willing to pay more to gain proper "Preofessional" features. Somewhere along the tracks, GameSalad/Gendai lost the distinction between the two, and muddied things up so that both versions are now almost identical, bar iAds and the links.
So for people to tell users that GameSalad isnt for Professional use, ....and that users wanting it to be, should go use a different tool, is doing GameSalad a big dis-service, and Im not sure as a company its what they want their users to be telling each other.
GameSalad really does need to start supporting its Pro users better though... or if not, it needs to make an official statement as to what its future direction and plans are, so those users really can make a fair and reasoned decision about their future use of the software.
Lets face it...where do people think GameSalad is going to generate its revenue from? Its certainly not from the free accounts....
Chunkypixels said: Theyve always had professional developers in mind... maybe not specifically coders, but definately designers and artists. Otherwise how can you explain the pricing structure, and the higher tier being called "Professional".
Good point. I suppose it depends on what you classify as professional. But having the pricing tier tagged as such doesn't help their case...
Chunkypixels said: Theyve always had professional developers in mind... maybe not The argument that the software was always just meant for amateurs and kids really annoys me, as its just completely untrue.
If you are referring to my comments, you better go back and re-read my comments. I stated that it's a good entry point into game development and you always have the choice to stay with it if it works for you or pick another tool if you have a project that requires different features. Also, there are lots of business developers on here that use it because they enjoy the ease of use so for anyone to say it is some sort of 'kiddie-scripting tool' is definitely off base.
Chunkypixels said: Somewhere along the tracks, GameSalad/Gendai lost the distinction between the two, and muddied things up so that both versions are now almost identical, bar iAds and the links.
I totally agree with you on this; their audience(s) needs to be properly defined and communicated to the community at large.
BeyondtheTech said: My situation is unique where my family and financial situation is involved, and I couldn't wait any longer.
One only needs to turn on the TV to see that your situation is not so unique. The economy is crap. One of the few areas that is booming is mobile development.
That's why I'm surprised things are so strained over here. This should feel like a lot more fun. The strategy for GameSalad is simple... keep the developers happy and they'll make good games. As those good games get discovered, GameSalad gets popular... even without a splash screen!
While we do have crazy debates here, this community is awesome and usually rational.
BeyondtheTech said: Yes, that would have included uprooting my entire family, wife and three kids, as far away from New Jersey to Austin, TX, because I believed. But, like many correspondences to and from GameSalad, even talks with executive members just fell by the wayside without nary a word. If I got as high as that and still couldn't get any headway, I had to seriously rethink my future with GameSalad as a developer and paid subscriber.
Wow, you were going for it. Be proud! You took a chance. I'm surprised it turned out the way it did. They should have hired you. I remember the video you did from New York City. That's dedication.
I'm not so dedicated. I like life in New York City. I've considered the opportunities in Austin, but I like NYC. The snow is starting to melt, so I'm remembering why I live here.
As for the six month thing... yeah... that's a problem. The subscription model makes GameSalad like an MMORPG. Heh, those communities are notoriously rabid. The reason is that people need to justify the subscriptions. I think if GameSalad added Game Center and other features sooner, you wouldn't have to write your lengthy post. You'd still be an active member of this community.
Rattlehead said: Agreed. The general tone in the forums has been on a slide since last fall...
That's probably because of the whole GameSalad Direct® fiasco, which really wasn't a terrible idea. The main problem was that it was a forced system. If GameSalad developers had the option, it could be different. I'm not sure how Apple would feel about thousands of developers under one account though.
@ Rattlehead ....nope, I wasnt saying you, and what you said annoyed me.
I was referring to the general argument that Ive seen put forward quite a bit recently, where some users say that GameSalad is a tool meant purely for amateurs, and that true developers should be using code, or other development environments instead.
tshirtbooth said: @BeyondtheTech ... I mean no disrespect when i say this. But maybe the lack of info you are getting is because you are over at corona more then you are here. Maybe there is a fear that you would pass on any information that was givin to you. I know myself and many of the other chefs have very easy access to many of the staff and executive members on the company.
That could be a valid concern, but if he moved with his family to Texas I think that concern would be obliterated.
Why are they so secretive anyway? If they update the software faster, the competition would likely struggle to keep up. I do think there is a lot of red tape and secrecy.
Although, I do think you're right Tshirtbooth, GameSalad is pretty approachable. I imagine that you have a great dialogue with them. It's encouraging that you're still optimistic. Although, now I see firemaplegames at Corona. He's one of the best GameSalad developers. When I first saw that, I got the feeling I would be left behind if I stayed with GameSalad.
Is GameSalad a professional tool? This shouldn't even be debatable if GameSalad is to succeed.
tshirtbooth said: But I can say this ... from the info I have 2011 is going to be an exciting year for GS. And I for one cant wait.
Again, that's encouraging news... but why should such information be exclusive to Sous Chefs? I don't think it helps them.
tshirtbooth said: @BeyondtheTech ... I mean no disrespect when i say this. But maybe the lack of info you are getting is because you are over at corona more then you are here. Maybe there is a fear that you would pass on any information that was givin to you. I know myself and many of the other chefs have very easy access to many of the staff and executive members on the company.
Now i agree things are slow going and i also wish updates were faster and more info was givin to the community via a road map. But I can say this ... from the info I have 2011 is going to be an exciting year for GS. And I for one cant wait.
I have always and will remain compliant with the NDA, so there should have been no fear, even now. There are several members on this forum alone who have asked for additional information that what is publicly posted here, and I have respectfully turned them down. You're also forgetting an important point: even if I were to violate the NDA - which I still won't - shouldn't there have to be something to divulge in order for it to be a violation? What "new" feature are they afraid of divulging that some other GDKs don't already have for months or even longer? Public roadmap? Arrays? OpenFeint/Game Center? Universal builds? In-App Purchases? Windows version of the GDK?
And, the reason why I'm over at the Corona forums, other than the fact that I need assistance in developing my game, is because there is very conspicuous progress on the engine, to the point where it's neck and neck with my own game development.
Here's a simple but perfect example: the camera feature in Corona was completely messed up. I was able to snap a picture, but the image would be useless. I contacted Ansca, and within a few days, I received a daily build that resolved the issue to my complete satisfaction. It's now a neat feature in my upcoming game.
Now, I am glad (yet concerned) that even YOU agree that GameSalad is lacking speed and a public roadmap. As far as I'm concerned, you're the most positive and respected voice of the GameSalad community as well as inside the company, and I commend you for your loyalty and hope for its future. But, I can only wonder if you're drawing a same blank expression as to why there's so much red tape and why the progress is so slow. I for one know that the core dev team behind Corona consists of two people (ex-Adobe employees, mind you), but GameSalad's dev team can't be any smaller than that. But, as I stated, some of the core features that I have already implemented in my nearly-finished Corona-based game may or may not even be on the GameSalad's "roadmap," and this switch was one I was willing to make in order to get it.
Comments
Also, for you to say that GameCenter won't increase sales is a) false and b) not the point of this thread. Nobody is saying "Hey my games don't sell why don't we have GameCenter so I can make the next Angry Birds?" It's just more like "Okay well this is a major feature of iOS games so why don't we have it? And you said "All it will do is help entice people to keep coming back, and generate more awareness of your game." HELLO, thats kinda a BIG DEAL...
As more apps hit the iTunes awareness through the noise gets tougher.
Any help in that area is a big +.
IMO: GS features v Corona features is a legitimate discussion, but not the one this thread was generated for.
• The main topic of this thread is about Game Center, and that it should be released soon!
• Game Center is a great feature for iOS apps
• Game Center games can be more popular than those without it.
• I think it should be easy to add Game Center.
• It takes 14 minutes in Xcode to add Game Center.
• Like it or not Corona is a competitor to GameSalad.
• Competition effects the future of this software.
• Carlos, co-founder of Ansca Mobile knows this.
• He announced that Game Center support is coming.
• If GameSalad doesn't stay competitive, and it goes out of business, our game projects go down with it.
Is "Working with GameSalad" the best forum for this thread? Perhaps "New Features" might make more sense. It doesn't matter to me. I've said what needs to be said. I'm planning to take a break from the forums once the contest is over.
As for things like os.time... that's a simple device attribute. We're denied access to simple things like that because novice users might be confused by Unix time...
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I know what that means. Should I be denied access to such information because it's not so user friendly?
This is something relevant to the "Working with GameSalad" forum. I don't like that it tries to hide everything. Having the option to use code... and then share that code with the rest of the community... is useful.
I like the idea of being able to make custom behaviors. Open it up for those that can program.
There's a perception that GameSalad is not for professional developers, that it's a toy. To fight that, the software needs some more options... more power. This is an excellent community. Not everyone here can code, but there are some that can.
This hits at the very philosophy of GameSalad. There are some features we don't have because the main objective is to make the software easy to use. If that's truly the main reason for the delay in Game Center, then I think it's a good topic of discussion for the community.
What if GameSalad had custom coding options or somewhat more complex behaviors? Would that be so bad? I don't think so. The alternative is sending customers to the competition, which is worse!
I code and I still come here because it is a nice change from having to worry about all every little thing that comes along with having a blank
slate of a code IDE in front of you. Sometimes simpler is nice.
Again, I know that if I want to get into the code or do something that GS can't, that there are other options available... It's simply about using the right tool for the job. GS has never stated that this is a 'professional' coder's tool...
That's why I think compromise is important. There's a perception that GameSalad is where you go if you're just starting out, but then you have to move into more advanced tools as you grow. Is that the focus for GameSalad? Is it iOS Developing 101, but then after the semester is over you need to buy something else?
I don't think it should be that way and I don't think the GameSalad team thinks that way either. They use the word "Professional", which shows their intention.
Somewhere in Austin Texas, they must have some pretty interesting debates about this.
There are also those developers that get their feet wet with GS and are always anxious to 'do more' and when GS can't meet their requirements, they may move on. Hopefully even those developers realize that you can always come back and use GS when it makes sense. That is what baffles me about so many of these comments. There is no silver bullet when it comes to development and that is why we have so much selection. While I can totally feel the same levels of frustration with how slow GS is to advance or communicate their progress to the community, everyone has to realize that there is choice. Personally, I like GS for what it is and while I hope to see it continually move forward, I am not going to wait on them. Instead I will develop with what tool fits at the moment and move on with the hopes of returning to a favourite tool down the road when it matures.
It's a fact of life as a developer that purchasing multiple tools is a reality. There were tons of times when I had wished that Delphi would catch up to the rest of the tools in the market. And when it didn't I moved on to Java and VB. And when those tools didn't meet my needs, I went out and bought .NET and an MSDN subscription. I will bet that a lot of developers end up in this boat at some time in their career or another.
I don't see game developers as being any different.
And like i said before, game center will NOT help you sell more copies. No one buys a game because it has game center. It's just an added perk to keep people playing it. Is that grea? Of course, but some people here think it's a magic tool to sell copies of their game. It's not going to happen. The same thing happened with iAds. People thought it was going to make them millions! They thought they could release a free crppy game with iAds and then make money off of the proceeds. Go back and so a search. Except in the case of a few people who have some really good games out there, IAds is making people about 10-15 dollars a month, if they are lucky.
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And if your games use iAds, it can increase your revenue. The more people play your games, the more advertisements are displayed. The more advertisements that are displayed, the more money you can make.
Game Center and iAds complement each other. I thought iAds would do better, but I was aware that it could be a flop. I wanted to test it for myself. With the $99 upgrade price, I was able to run that test.
I have made advertisement based games. They were successful... and far more popular. The biggest game I made was an android game. If I had the advertisement solution figured out, I probably wouldn't be here today.
Even though Google bought them out, I'm considering using AdMob again. It worked well for me. The real reason for the failure of iAds is not GameSalad, it's not GameSalad developers. It's Apple itself. The fill rates are terrible.
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no need to argue because GS is growing in popularity at an alarming rate!
while we are discussing unworthy things, the forum has gained over 1000 new members! THAT is so impressive.
I am sure that the majority of those new members bought the pro version ($500 x 1000) so GS is doing very well!
The only thing that makes me feel bad is that once I got going with GS, i still had to come on here asking basic questions, especially during the beginning, when I was working on my first app!
GS is now so easy to use that 99.9 % of newcomers get it instantly ... and not just that, they also know how to set up the Apple side of things and unlike me, publish with no problems.
I say freeze the development and release it as the real thing. Version 1
I'm thinking Game Center could increase my game sales. That's not the main reason why I want to add it though. I think it could make my games more fun.
When I sit on the couch at night, watching TV, I like to play games on my iPhone. The games I like to play usually have Game Center. I think it would be fun to play against other players in a game that I made.
However, it does seem that GameSalad is more popular than ever...
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/gamesalad.com If they did that, I could bring back the printed version of my book. I'm not sure GameSalad is ready yet. Although, for 1.0, it's really good. That's probably a good topic for another thread. What does GameSalad need before it can leave beta?
I don't even consider GameSalad beta software.
Speaking of "bring back" ... after much consideration, I believe the price tag of $1999 is more than reasonable! So hopefully, the price will be adjusted accordingly.
Like you, I too have suggestions for improvement and my idea is to give us an option for a "closing splash screen".
This way, there is a little bit more continuity because the game ends kind of like it starts.
Except the wording needs to be changed to: "You just fed your inner game designer. Eat more tomorrow!"
So, here's my take:
As a Sous-Chef, I supposedly had an inside track to the dev cycle and better contact with people inside the GameSalad company. When I was occasionally able to get the momentary attention of an actual person, I felt there was way too much red tape and closed doors for it to be useful. There's not much more I can say without violating NDA, so I'll leave it at that.
I bought Corona over six months ago, but I actually shelved it for a while because I was both very hopeful for GameSalad and because I felt that I had a "programmer's block," especially with a "new" language like Lua. However, once I started playing around, I was determined to take it on, full-speed ahead.
Forgive my memory, but it may have been Photics who mentioned that it's been six months since GameSalad issued an update to their game development kit (GDK). For those doing their math, that's half the length of your paid subscription. If you still feel comfortable in coughing upwards of $499 a few months from now with little new to show for it, other than a new GUI, a new logo, pause, and a few other tidbits, well, then, more power to you. My situation is unique where my family and financial situation is involved, and I couldn't wait any longer.
Mind you, I used to be loyal to the point where I wasn't loyal to myself. Not that I'm hating on GameSalad, but I do have one goal: to get out of a failing full-time job and freelance instead. The company I am working for full-time, has just been acquired, and I am due to lose my job within three months. But the idea of freelancing and the booming careers in mobile development have shifted my sails to end the rat race once and for all.
Like a few of you, I, too, have been approached by publishing companies, financiers, and just people with ideas, but the limit I had was the tools I was working with, particularly GameSalad. As I stated before, I even applied to GameSalad in the dual hope that I could make a difference in the company for the direction and speed of the platform, and also to land a stable job. Yes, that would have included uprooting my entire family, wife and three kids, as far away from New Jersey to Austin, TX, because I believed. But, like many correspondences to and from GameSalad, even talks with executive members just fell by the wayside without nary a word. If I got as high as that and still couldn't get any headway, I had to seriously rethink my future with GameSalad as a developer and paid subscriber.
So, I dusted off that purchase of Corona and played with it for the last two months. My previous coding experience was many flavors of BASIC: QBASIC, QuickBASIC/QBX, NS/BASIC, Visual BASIC, and then I ventured off with C in Game Editor, and into TorqueScript in iTorque 2D. In honesty, Lua didn't seem that far off from what I already knew, and the rest is just syntax. The juices started flowing, and with the sample code, I was off and running.
But, as I inevitably hit a few roadblocks on the way, I reached out to Ansca, the people behind Corona. To my surprise, I was able to speak with the support team directly! From group webcasts, to email correspondences, to private Skype chats for hours at a time, I never felt that they were more than arms-length away to assist me. That doesn't even include the active forum and often updated code exchange section, where lots of bits of goodies are just waiting to be used. While that's the tip of the iceberg...
- * There's also a bug tracker database.
- * There's a detailed roadmap.
- * There's a blog.
- * There's tweets of progress, teasers, snapshots, and the like.
- * Lastly, there are daily builds of the engine. Daily. And their development methods are smooth enough that adding or fixing one thing doesn't end up breaking another.
But, as it's been debated above, it's not *just* the number of features that a game development platform has. It's also the content of your game. You can't blame the dancing shoes if you've got two left feet. But, I also know that some core features are required if you're going to compete with the big boys.So, I started with a simple premise for a game about a month ago, and all the coding is basically done. Now, all I'm doing is levels and tweaking. But, I've got a ton of features that I've always wanted to incorporate into a game, nearly all of which cannot be done with the current GameSalad engine. Sometimes, I felt like I kept tacking on these features almost out of spite that I couldn't do it before, but as I stated, I want these features, not as a developer, but as a gamer. Thankfully, Corona's SDK allowed me to do that, and with Game Center on the horizon, that's just another valuable bullet point on my product page on the App Store.
I will always have a cozy place for GameSalad in my heart, and it will be interesting to see what has come about in a few months' time. I've given my remaining GameSalad Pro license to my daughter so she can learn basic game development and programming logic, but as for me, it's been quite an interesting ride here, and I do wish the best for the folks behind the engine, as well as those who continue to use the engine to the best of its abilities.
Later this year I'll have to make that decision. Do I want to pay $499 a year? Right now, I'm thinking I won't renew my subscription. But if GameSalad suddenly gets in-app purchases, Game Center, more access to iOS hardware and removes the splashscreen for professional subscribers... $499 is not too bad.
I think they'd be more competitive with a lower price and I think they'd increase exposure if GameSalad was available on the Mac App Store. I'm not sure if the Mac App Store supports subscriptions like iOS though.
My problem is that I don't like feeling limited by the tool. Last year, GameSalad impressed me. I felt a struggle to keep up... like with the iPad launch. Heh, that was great fun. A surge of strong updates would re-energize this community.
There's a part of the debate that says, "But you can make games like Bumps and Grizzly Mansion with GameSalad." Wouldn't those games be better with more features?
The argument that the software was always just meant for amateurs and kids really annoys me, as its just completely untrue.
GS has always wanted to appeal to a wide an audience as possible... thats why it has the entry level package, and then it has the higher tier package that was meant to be for developers willing to pay more to gain proper "Preofessional" features. Somewhere along the tracks, GameSalad/Gendai lost the distinction between the two, and muddied things up so that both versions are now almost identical, bar iAds and the links.
So for people to tell users that GameSalad isnt for Professional use, ....and that users wanting it to be, should go use a different tool, is doing GameSalad a big dis-service, and Im not sure as a company its what they want their users to be telling each other.
GameSalad really does need to start supporting its Pro users better though... or if not, it needs to make an official statement as to what its future direction and plans are, so those users really can make a fair and reasoned decision about their future use of the software.
Lets face it...where do people think GameSalad is going to generate its revenue from? Its certainly not from the free accounts....
That's why I'm surprised things are so strained over here. This should feel like a lot more fun. The strategy for GameSalad is simple... keep the developers happy and they'll make good games. As those good games get discovered, GameSalad gets popular... even without a splash screen!
While we do have crazy debates here, this community is awesome and usually rational. Wow, you were going for it. Be proud! You took a chance. I'm surprised it turned out the way it did. They should have hired you. I remember the video you did from New York City. That's dedication.
I'm not so dedicated. I like life in New York City. I've considered the opportunities in Austin, but I like NYC. The snow is starting to melt, so I'm remembering why I live here.
As for the six month thing... yeah... that's a problem. The subscription model makes GameSalad like an MMORPG. Heh, those communities are notoriously rabid. The reason is that people need to justify the subscriptions. I think if GameSalad added Game Center and other features sooner, you wouldn't have to write your lengthy post. You'd still be an active member of this community.
It was a great read though, very insightful.
I was referring to the general argument that Ive seen put forward quite a bit recently, where some users say that GameSalad is a tool meant purely for amateurs, and that true developers should be using code, or other development environments instead.
So nope...wasnt having a go at you personally
Why are they so secretive anyway? If they update the software faster, the competition would likely struggle to keep up. I do think there is a lot of red tape and secrecy.
Although, I do think you're right Tshirtbooth, GameSalad is pretty approachable. I imagine that you have a great dialogue with them. It's encouraging that you're still optimistic. Although, now I see firemaplegames at Corona. He's one of the best GameSalad developers. When I first saw that, I got the feeling I would be left behind if I stayed with GameSalad.
Is GameSalad a professional tool? This shouldn't even be debatable if GameSalad is to succeed. Again, that's encouraging news... but why should such information be exclusive to Sous Chefs? I don't think it helps them.
Daily builds, Road Map, that's good stuff!
And, the reason why I'm over at the Corona forums, other than the fact that I need assistance in developing my game, is because there is very conspicuous progress on the engine, to the point where it's neck and neck with my own game development. Now, I am glad (yet concerned) that even YOU agree that GameSalad is lacking speed and a public roadmap. As far as I'm concerned, you're the most positive and respected voice of the GameSalad community as well as inside the company, and I commend you for your loyalty and hope for its future. But, I can only wonder if you're drawing a same blank expression as to why there's so much red tape and why the progress is so slow. I for one know that the core dev team behind Corona consists of two people (ex-Adobe employees, mind you), but GameSalad's dev team can't be any smaller than that. But, as I stated, some of the core features that I have already implemented in my nearly-finished Corona-based game may or may not even be on the GameSalad's "roadmap," and this switch was one I was willing to make in order to get it.